NY 170: Georgetown II (Game Over)

[emogirl123]

I'm some pages behind being fully read up but just skimming is enough to see that Yessiree dies tomorrow if Slandaar flips scum, and Slandaar is going to flip scum.

bump

[Huntress]

Vote Count 2.2

Albert B. Rampage (5) - emogirl123, Nobody Special, Zdenek, Aegor, Zekrom25
Thor665 (1) - Garmr
emogirl123 (1) - Bulbazak

Not voting (10) - Albert B. Rampage, Chevre, emeraldemon, inHimshallibe, kabooooom, Matias, OhGodMyLife, Sotty7, The Fonz, Thor665


With seventeen players alive, it takes nine votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day Two is Friday, 21st February 20.00 GMT, (in (expired on 2014-02-21 20:00:00)).

Note:

kabooooom is V/LA until Mon 9th Feb.

[Garmr]

Hey Thor I didn't like Brian skies that much yesterday can you show me what yah got.

Why was Brian scummy in your mind?

Also, why, if Brian/ABR did the same thing, would you rather vote me than ABR?

Its more the fact I haven't seen Brian do this before. He wasn't helpful instead of catching up normally he did page by page reports a lot of it was fluff. I have seen ABR similar to this (even through he only replaced in). Brian just said don't try to meta me as well and gave example from other games which mostly wasn't even similar to why I was reading him scum except maybe one point. Overall your slot is something that's fishy as hell and I know how good you are as scum from past games so I'm going to have to pay even more attention for any kind of slip up.(Take that as a compliment.)

[The Fonz]

@The Fonz - yours is the first post that feels clearly townish. Talk to me here, what are your thoughts on the gamestate now and/or yesterday. I'd like some context but will admit I'm far too lazy to actually read the whole game to get it.

My view on the gamestate, and bear in mind that at various points I was one of the stronger partisans so a large pinch of salt will be needed for this:

Pre-game is full of derping around, 'Lol I know ur scum because u said so in our quicktopic' type stuff. Imho, this disposed people badly towards emogirl, who was the main culprit. Game starts and Slandaar does a lot of unhelpful setup spec. This will be important later.

A wagon builds on the annoying emogirl. Bulbazak claims that emogirl saying 'I was going to vote the first person to make a case on garmr' is the same thing as saying 'I want to vote town.' I call this a deliberate distortion and vote Bulbazak. We wall back and forth for a few pages before I decide that further argument is futile. Meanwhile, lots of people jump on the emogirl wagon with either even worse reasoning than Bulba, or none at all. Lots of people express discomfort with the wagon, but their votes are scattered.

Chevre then puts the wagon at something like L-2 with 'lynch for information' reasoning. Lots of people find this super scummy, big Chevre wagon builds and emogirl wagon dies quickly. Chevre gets close to lynch, I am uncomfortable with Albert and Nobody Special jumping the Chevre wagon having also supported the (imho diametrically opposed in terms of worldview) emogirl wagon. I unvote to question Albert, then go V/LA over the weekend.

Albert unvotes Chevre, and goes to Slandaar. Several others follow. Slandaar wagon gets big. Albert unvotes to vote emeraldemon, several follow. slandaar wagon is still building. Slandaar attacks brian skies, imho unfairly, deadline pressure shows up, most people conclude Slandaar is the best lynch of the viable wagons, which are Slan, Brian Skies, and emeraldemon.

Things to note:

Albert was on every major wagon except Brian's. He jumped the first two, but started the Slandaar and Emerald wagons and is now imho being scapegoated for them.

The emogirl wagon got to l-2, and nearly everyone who was on it seems to have forgotten she even exists now.

Similarly, and much to my chagrin, the Chevre wagon also seems soft - no-one except me was willing to fight for it.

Basically, we have a game where as soon as the momentum started shifting at all, several people switch their votes to the new flavor of the week wagon at the drop of a hat.

Also,

Vote: Nobody special

Reasons:

A) Being on both emo and chevre
B) Self-admitted coasting
C) Emerging from a lurk to place a useless vote
D) Showing up at the deadline and not providing an opinion
E) Votes the flavor of the week wagon this morning with no reasoning.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote: NS

The vote on me came out of nowhere and seemed like it was a calculated move.

[Thor665]

I can side with that.

Vote: Nobody Special

Was he on the Emo wagon? I'd kind of like to vote someone who was on the Emo wagon.

[Bulbazak]

Was he on the Emo wagon? I'd kind of like to vote someone who was on the Emo wagon.

Why?

[Thor665]

By the description the Emo wagon smells like it was filled with scum.
Why, do you think it was a pro-town wagon?

[Bulbazak]

I think Emo is scum. The wagon dissipated very quickly once an alternate target was found, that being the Chevre wagon.

[Zdenek]

There is still Chevre. Lyching him could be a good idea. That I didn't unvote until I had a defensible excuse post is still rope worthy.

Are you not happy with your ABR vote?

I'm happy with it.

[Zdenek]

Unvote, vote Slandaar

regardless you still voted against town

Vote: ABR

You think he's scum because he voted for town?

[Thor665]

I think Emo is scum. The wagon dissipated very quickly once an alternate target was found, that being the Chevre wagon.

What's the scum case on her besides wagon dissipation? Or is that the case?

There is still Chevre. Lyching him could be a good idea. That I didn't unvote until I had a defensible excuse post is still rope worthy.

Are you not happy with your ABR vote?

I'm happy with it.

Then why the Chevre soft sell when the ABR wagon is unopposed?

[Zdenek]

Sotty is probably scum. Her attack on me for a bad voting record is bs since we've had only one flip.
Also, Slaandar's reasons for thinking that ABR was scum don't seem like bs to me, so I still think he's a good lynch.

[Zdenek]

On that note, Sotty was a fan of my The Goodfather vote and voted Slaandar, so that criticism of hers seems fabricated.

[Zekrom25]

Unvote, vote Slandaar

regardless you still voted against town

Vote: ABR

You think he's scum because he voted for town?

that is one reason however i need more information to confirm my suspicions

[Zdenek]

ABR is scum because before his vote on Slaandar, the reasons people gave to vote for Slaander were that he'd been doing very little or dismissing criticism, which were accurate, but not strong reasons for a lynch. ABR padded his vote on Slaandar with things that were false. I think he was scum that saw blood in the water, but knew that reasons that had been given so far weren't strong enough, and tried to justify his vote with bs.

[Thor665]

Sadly, it is well within ABR's meta to...well, flat out lie to make a case when he is town.

I will agree this means I always want a Vig in games with him in it, but it is an awkward 'scumtell' to apply to him because his town play is exactly that brutally anti-town.

[Zdenek]

Sadly, it is well within ABR's meta to...well, flat out lie to make a case when he is town.

You don't think that NS's play is within his meta?

[Thor665]

Don't really care, I'm voting on the 'not ABR' wagon to see what happens. I thought I was pretty clear about that.

[Zdenek]

You are also defending ABR.

[Thor665]

I am, I didn't think I was being subtle about that.

[Zdenek]

I am, I didn't think I was being subtle about that.

I'm just curious why you would defend ABR using the argument that he's playing within his meta, but do the same for NS.

[Zdenek]

sorry, that should be "but not do the same for NS."

[Chevre]

A post on the end-of-day votecount:

For reference, here it is:

Vote Count 1.19

Slandaar (10) - Chevre, OhGodMyLife, Aegor, Brian Skies, Bulbazak, Zdenek, Matias, yessiree, Albert B. Rampage, Slandaar

Brian Skies (4) - Garmr, Sotty7, emeraldemon, emogirl123
Chevre (2) - Zekrom25, The Fonz
emeraldemon (1) - inHimshallibe
emogirl123 (1) - kabooooom

Not voting (1) - Nobody Special

With nineteen players alive, it takes ten votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One has been extended due to the replacements and is now Wednesday, 5th February 20.00 GMT, (in (expired on 2014-02-05 20:00:00)).

Let's go over the votes on Slandaar's lynch first. Obviously mine is the first vote; I think at the time of casting it was a weak vote based primarily on a sort of active lurking but Slandaar's poor reactions to the vote strengthened my opinions on it. I'm going to affirm here that I don't think the Slandaar lynch was poorly conceptualized, but in this review I do want to look at those whose votes seem opportune or of little reason. OGML's vote is second and I think it's actually a little bit prophetic with the line "In conclusion, let's try to disingenuously dismiss all criticism out of hand", so I don't take issue with this vote either. ABR's first vote on Slandaar (he unvotes later and then revotes) is just because he is "scummy" without explanation but that's to be expected of ABR at this point isn't it? He does switch to emeraldemon quite quickly afterward but that wagon hasn't really taken off yet so I don't think it's a scummy hop. I'm not sure of Sotty's reasoning for his vote on Slandaar, but it is not permanent I see. It does agree with OGML again which is so very strange and I think Zdenek is right to question it. Aegor, though initially I thought it scummy since he considers lynching Slandaar earlier in 607, actually has decent reasons in this post and 668, especially determining why Slandaar is the best choice out of the suspects. Despite walls on the same page, Brian Skies' vote is pretty reasonless; he notes how Slandaar is "pure evil" but I don't know if that necessarily indicates scum? The Bulbazak vote is reasonless within the post but in 634 he notes Slandaar's poor list construction (the one where he lists people he believes need to post and declares them as scum). I think Brian Skies' reasonless vote is at least in part remedied by transactions between the two on pages 31 and 32. ABR switches back for a second time to Slandaar and this is still not the last; what's even more disconcerting is that he says in this post that his reads are "usually right on the money" but his earlier switch from Slandaar to emeraldemon seemed quite fickle. Zdenek's vote feels right, especially since now Slandaar is all over the place and peaked with that vote switch to emeraldemon; Matias pretty much echoes these sentiments. Zekrom places a vote which I guess changes later, and it's literally reasoned by everyone else's reasons, but given what I've seen on Day 2 I'm not expecting much more. yessiree's vote is kind of pointless to include in this analysis, but for completion's sake, it actually doesn't do much in the way of reasoning, though at this point it is nearing deadline and much of the reasons have been stated and re-stated. I feel this differs from Zekrom's vote because yessiree's feels legitimate whereas Zekrom's feels like he's latching on, though these ideas are admittedly gut feels since there is so little wordage in the vote posts. I don't feel it's worth linking, but ABR switches back to make it L-1 in 929 and then Slandaar self hammers.

From the votes that were left at lynch, I think ABR's wishy-washy voting is the scummiest, but I do think most of the votes off the wagon are more fishy. I never really found Sotty7's vote reasoning for Slandaar very in-depth, and then he switches off the wagon. Zekrom's vote and switch to me before the lynch is also very scummy. emogirl also putting her vote on Brian feels scummy as well. Also Garmr barely touches the Slandaar wagon at all. As for the others, emeraldemon truly does reek of newness, and I am of mixed opinion on his vote on Brian Skies. I could totally see it as scum knowing Slandaar is not scum and thus trying to avoid flak on Day 2 but it really sort of matches emeraldemon's tone from the rest of the day. Despite it being on me, Fonz's vote wasn't really out-of-place and he declared intent to hammer. inHim, kabooooom, and Nobody Special's votes don't really bother me because they were either reading up / away, which could be scum excuses but I doubt it.

So for a concise list ( ) The end-of-day vote count makes me think Sotty7, ABR, emogirl123, Zekrom25, and Garmr are suspicious, in that order.

[Chevre]

Catching up on the rest of the thread because I don't know if I have it in me to do yessiree analysis tonight:

Thor665: Basically, I feel like if you don't read Day 1 before starting Day 2, aren't you essentially starting on Day 1 again? Day 1 in all its Fortune gives town a sense of how everyone is playing and posting, plus a plethora of votes and reasons. That feels condescending to say because I find it so simple.

Matias, continuing this thread of thought, why replace in if you're not going to read? I understand you're trying to be helpful, but not re-reading just means you aren't being helpful to the fullest you can be IMO.

Returning to Thor, Fonz's recap from my perspective at least points out why Day 1 is so important, because I find it so incredibly skewed. My initial reasoning for my emogirl vote is that I found her suspicious plus her lynch would be rife with information. I do realize in retrospect that the initial post lacks on why I thought she was suspicious. Additionally, as I did get close to lynch I reread the whole thread and posted a wall-summary of my thoughts in case I was lynched, and in that summary I clarify that I find emogirl so suspicious because of her playstyle and use of terminology (she said she was purposefully "towntelling", for example). I feel that post is responsible for the wagon dying down. Finally--and this is the thing I was disgruntled with most--at the conclusion of that wall I voted Slandaar, making my vote the first. Not exactly the proudest fact, but it's the truth. I also don't see my and emogirl's wagons as opposed as he does. But of course, I realize that Fonz's post for you is a personal perspective, and once again I do think that it comes from a town player.

In that catchup post, Fonz mentions how emogirl wagon supporters have forgotten about her, and I think there are multiple reasons:
a) most of the suspicion stemmed from her playstyle rather than actual scummy things, but also
b) I reiterate that after her wagon's death she did sort of disappear, and then through the Slandaar/emeraldemon/Brian debate her posts were kind of fluffy (she referenced, out of the blue, an essay on synergy?). I think this is scummy.

I Zdenek's points on Sotty7.