NY 170: Georgetown II (Game Over)

[inHimshallibe]

First, NKs are a big mess of WIFOM, so I'm not going to use 1 kill to justify lynching anyone.

Gut read scum deflection.

[Aegor]

Still not getting how my zekrom vote was in any way problematic.

[Bulbazak]

So you agree with the assertion that the NK points to ABR being scum? Or that it points definitively to anyone being scum at this point?

[inHimshallibe]

So you agree with the assertion that the NK points to ABR being scum? Or that it points definitively to anyone being scum at this point?

I never said anything about the nightkills. I just know scum have agenda when they engage in discourse, and it pinged me that you did not want NK analysis done (on a suggestive level), thus scum.

[inHimshallibe]

@Aegor: you start off with a vote on Zekrom but finished pointing to other people, makes me hesitate in regards to you/that.

[Aegor]

@Aegor: you start off with a vote on Zekrom but finished pointing to other people, makes me hesitate in regards to you/that.

If I had pointed to other people before voting zekrom, would your reaction have been different? That seems like a very tenuous reason.

[inHimshallibe]

@Aegor: you start off with a vote on Zekrom but finished pointing to other people, makes me hesitate in regards to you/that.

If I had pointed to other people before voting zekrom, would your reaction have been different? That seems like a very tenuous reason.

Yes to the question. :shrug: to the statement.

[Bulbazak]

So you agree with the assertion that the NK points to ABR being scum? Or that it points definitively to anyone being scum at this point?

I never said anything about the nightkills. I just know scum have agenda when they engage in discourse, and it pinged me that you did not want NK analysis done (on a suggestive level), thus scum.

I don't put as much faith in NKA as others do. I especially don't think it's possible to do NKA based off of only 1 kill. You need multiple kills in order to establish a pattern. So yeah, I think the NK point against ABR was crappy.

[Nobody Special]

@Nobody Special: Early on day one, you called setup speculation 'useless.' Why didn't you call it scummy?

Because on Day One, it

is

useless. After D1, it may or may not be scummy, depending on circumstances.

So just to be clear, you do not believe that scum has more motive to do it than town?

Okay, I feel like you are trying to paint me into a corner here, which bothers me. Scum does,

in certain circumstances,

have more motive for setup spec than town. I don't know how much clearer I can make it.

[Sotty7]

So, what's your read on Aegor, you haven't given one yet, and what is your current read on ABR?

I'm voting on ABR today for the reason that I gave recently and because I felt like pushing a wagon to see what would come of it.

Fonz's 985 is fine, but less relevant to what I'm thinking about than Thor's 1016.

I'm reading Aegor as newer town. I go back and forth on ABR, right now I have him slight town, his back and forth with Slandaar felt appropriate to me yesterday, something I would expect of town ABR.

Talk to me about emeraldemon then? It looked like after the Goodfather fell flat he was your strongest read as you jumped on every chance to wagon him that cropped up. You have now basically done the same with ABR, joining the wagon rather than convince people of your reads. Is he still one of your top scum reads? Is ABR more likely to flip scum than him?

Bulbazak and Zekrom currently gut level scums.

vote: Bulbazak

I kinda agree although

maybe not about Zekrom

(the smiley post irks me so he can go in here too). You have anything about bulb that is itching you in particular?

I was fighting for it until my read of Chevre changed. He's now firmly in my town pile. I agree with the Sotty read coming out of the Slandaar wagon analysis. Something felt off about her yesterday that I couldn't quite put my finger on, but looking back it does feel like she was mirroring my positions at every opportunity.

Vote: Sotty7

We happened to agree. I'm not going to apologize for that, I will shadow protown looking people if I can. I like to work in teams.

The vote on Sotty is pretty awesome.

Not even slightly.

[Sotty7]

I'm not sure of Sotty's reasoning for his vote on Slandaar, but it is not permanent I see.

I thought it was pretty obvious with the quote I included that I thought his post about "other investigations" was bullshit. I pushed him further when it turned out he was waiting for a poster that barely posted which was a great excuse to lurk.

I drifted off wagon because I feeling Skies was more likely to flip scum but when we came near the deadline I changed my mind again in my post lynch vote for Slandaar which actually detailed my thoughts a little clearer.

[Garmr]

I'm not sure of Sotty's reasoning for his vote on Slandaar, but it is not permanent I see.

I thought it was pretty obvious with the quote I included that I thought his post about "other investigations" was bullshit. I pushed him further when it turned out he was waiting for a poster that barely posted which was a great excuse to lurk.

I drifted off wagon because I feeling Skies was more likely to flip scum but when we came near the deadline I changed my mind again in my post lynch vote for Slandaar which actually detailed my thoughts a little clearer.

Do you still feel the same way about brian skies slot as I do.

[Chevre]

I will be posting after school today.

[Sotty7]

Do you still feel the same way about brian skies slot as I do.

Right now I am giving Thor a chance.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Bulbazak what do you my alignment is? What do you think of Zdenek's assertions?

[inHimshallibe]

Bulbazak and Zekrom currently gut level scums.

vote: Bulbazak

I kinda agree although

maybe not about Zekrom

(the smiley post irks me so he can go in here too). You have anything about bulb that is itching you in particular?

Did not like the posturing re: NK analysis.

[Zdenek]

although I'm starting to become more unsure of my Sotty read

Could you explain this please?

[Zekrom25]

What's the difference between Zdenek and Zekrom25?

Zdenek goes
Wa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pow!
Wa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pow!
Wa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pow!

and the other fits in a pokeball

[Chevre]

OK. I want to look at yessiree (and WBOCampfire, by association of course) to see what relationships there are. Yes, I know that nightkills are an immense bucket of WIFOM, but I feel it's worth addressing because scum went through some process to pick him, however convoluted and town-countering it may be. WBO has extremely little content; it consists of voting Nobody Special twice based on what appears to be playstyle. Since this is pretty trivial, we move on to yessiree.

After unvoting, yessiree first suspects me and ABR; while no reasoning is provided, I can assume that it is for our votes on emogirl. Sotty "likes" yessiree in 461; on terms of playstyle or as town it is unclear but Sotty7 could clear that up for us. In 487 yessiree gives a read on each player in that strange code format, link. What I get from it is that his reads were as follows:

Town: Aegor, Sotty7, The Goodfather (now inHimshallibe), Bulbazak, Maestro (now Zekrom25), Chevre,
Scum: emogirl123, WBOCampfire1104 (?), Albert B. Rampage, Brian Skies (now Thor665), Acidic_TACO (now Matias)
Mixed: Garmr, Slandaar, Nobody Special?
Null: OhGodMyLife, Maenara (now Zdenek), The Fonz, emeraldemon, kabooooom

he says soon afterward his scumread list is ABR first, followed by Maenara and emogirl. Posts afterward define reasons for ABR including his L-1 vote on me. Sotty in 521 calls yessiree town, so I guess that answers that question. He's also in an altercation with ABR, so right now I'm thinking that the yessiree NK would be a bad choice for scum-ABR. In 569 he points out how Acidic's "random vote" didn't look random to him but instead scummy. In my wall I found yessiree town. In 635 emeraldemon places yessiree in the middle of his reads list. yessiree votes OGML in 638, if I'm correct this due to OGML's change of heart on me, and in the next post he finds emeraldemon scummy as well. In 747 he claims Brian Skies is either scum or horrible town. Brian later quotes part of that post and uses it to claim that yessiree is town. inHim finds the same post by yessiree scummy. The "180 flip" by OGML is brought up again. In 902 we get a new scumlist, or rather, lynchlist, of emeraldemon, Slandaar, and me; Matias is included because of Acidic_TACO but is "read-reset" due to Matias' play.

That's it before his death. I think that yessiree's biggest suspects were emeraldemon and ABR, but I don't see either of these as scum through this analysis. I think a yessiree NK begs for people to look and see "oh look he suspected ABR so he must be scum!!!" and I could see scum-emeraldemon trying to get his group to kill yessiree after his attack yesterday, but I don't think he'd have the pull to do it. Brian Skies is also obvious, though to a lesser extent, in my gut. I think the best answers for this kill would be emogirl, OhGodMyLife, and maybe Matias. emogirl was high on yessiree's suspect list, and while there wasn't much develop on it later in the Day, that's exactly the point I feel: the issue was left hanging. That, to me, seems like an ideal kill for scum: someone who wasn't attacking you hardcore but did suspect you a bit. Same with OGML, their issue on OGML's 180 flip on me was left in the air when OGML refused to find defensive evidence. Matias is a pretty weak choice because yessiree did say that he was now town since it was Matias, but that suspicion caused by Acidic would still probably mingle in yessiree's thoughts.

To conclude, I'm very unlikely to rely on this for the bulk of a vote, because it's only one dead town's perspective (I don't really care to use Slandaar's, given his end-of day retorts and the general lack of reads anyway), but I feel it needs to be done so at least I have somewhere to look back to.

[Zdenek]

Bulbazak, why did you ignore this?

Chevre becomes moderately more town simply because I'm still alive.

[Chevre]

Catching up:

OGML, I would actually like to see you pull those quotes up that yessiree requested. To remind:

There may have only been two, I'm given to hyperbole and didn't actually go back to read anything at the time I made that post. Regardless, there was enough premature blame pinning for the imminent Chevre flip to trip my sensors.

quotes or didn't happen

Nobody Special, before the lynch you said you were reading up. Did you manage to do that, and did you find anything?

To Garmr's 1027: This is a horrible generalization of my posts. Not

everyone

who wasn't voting Slandaar is suspicious. Additionally, I think Brian Skies is fairly suspicious; I just think most of the votes were placed as though they were avoiding the Slandaar mislynch. Is there another game in which Slandaar and you do your thing? Because I'm not really inclined to believe it from just one example. As for the second part, you seemed to have missed the part where I had mentioned my frustration with replacements not reading. I too agree that Thor665 is a more experienced player than I, but what exactly am I coaching him on in the first place? I'm telling a replacement to read the thread, shoot me now.

Thor665: I get the validity of players who experienced Day 1 discussing it now, but I think there is even more to be attained by you reading it yourself and forming opinions. I think there are plenty of things you need to see, so if you want a list: ISO and skim emogirl to get a sense of where the suspicion was arising from and realize how that could simply be her playstyle; the Bulbazak-emogirl confrontation, the vote-hopping onto emogirl's and mine wagons, ABR vs. Slandaar, and if you weren't replacing him, I'd say Brian v. Slandaar. Is emogirl a good lynch now? I think so, yeah. I do see some scummy things (the quickness of the momentum shift away from her wagon, her end of day play and, though minor, the yessiree kill). I didn't really consider a) to be a good reason.

I'm reluctant to vote Zekrom25, because of his ISO--it's so consistently horrible that I think it is just playstyle. I would vote him for a deadline-pushing compromise lynch though.

emeraldemon: I felt Sotty7 had a weak reason for her initial vote on Slandaar, and then she switched off as it was gaining. It's as simple as that, though I think she made a post recently that made me feel a bit less suspicious about it. And ABR's been like that all game, sure, but I guess if one looks just at Slandaar's wagon, it's an interesting focus because he votes Slandaar 3 different times.

As I just said, Sotty7's reason for her Day 1 votes feels genuine but otherwise she's still super weird. On my reread for yessiree I noticed she found him super-town, and there is the whole OGML-Sotty relationship. Zdenek questioned OGML about it, but he never answered, so I'd like to expand the question to both sides: Do you guys have any previous game relationships that would explain this strange alignment? (Well, up until OGML voted Sotty.

Not seeing ABR scum, at least not today. Garmr is so contrarian to me but it doesn't feel scummy besides the point I made in 1023. I think my best read is

Vote: emogirl123

. I'm still very uncomfortable with the dissipation of her wagon, and again, the points in 1023: her late-Day 1 fluff. Some concrete examples are 813, 821 (I still want to hear the Maestro reasonings even if he's not here), and 838. Additionally the aggressiveness and general rudeness of 955 doesn't feel town.

[Sotty7]

Sotty "likes" yessiree in 461; on terms of playstyle or as town it is unclear but Sotty7 could clear that up for us.

Both.

As I just said, Sotty7's reason for her Day 1 votes feels genuine but otherwise she's still super weird

If my votes feel genuine what's so weird about me? Is it the way I followed OGML? We don't have a huge history but I have played a couple of games with him awhile back. I just like genuine sounding town like people. His actions today are off beat, I don't think his vote on me really stands up, but I'm willing to see where he goes from here.

I agree with you RE: Zekrom25 and probably ABR, but more content from both would be good.

[Thor665]

Mod - v/la 2/11-2/14

I may manage some posting in there, but with the way my work schedule is...

Also, as a reminder to mysel - I skipped 44-45.
$5 says I call all those pages boring anyway.

[Bulbazak]

Bulbazak what do you my alignment is?

No clue.

What do you think of Zdenek's assertions?

I think it's incredibly lazy play to base an entire read off of a dead man's read list, especially when that player went against his win condition in the manner that he did, and especially since he was the one stretching to make his points for most of his arguments, which was what got him lynched in the first place.

although I'm starting to become more unsure of my Sotty read

Could you explain this please?

I had an early Sotty gut scumread. I started to doubt that read given his reactions during my back and forth with Emo and Garmr. I'm not sure what to make of him now, as the current game state feels a lot more muddled than yesterday.

Bulbazak, why did you ignore this?

Chevre becomes moderately more town simply because I'm still alive.

Was there a reason you expected me to comment on it?

[Aegor]

Does anyone know offhand anyone who joined and then left the Slandaar wagon? Planning to look back at the wagon but that would help.