NY 171: An Education in Telling Jokes (Game Over!)

[Zekrom25]

IMPORTANT!

@Zekrom: IF WE GIVE YOU A LIST OF POSSIBLE TARGETS WILL YOU KILL ONE OF THOSE TARGETS?

yes if they are scum i will

Will 100% do so? Even if you don't think any of them are scum?

yes however i'll iso each one to double check each one, so i don't shoot a town by mistake

Zekrom. I'm putting this in its own post so you are sure to see it. I need you to reply to this in your next post. You will agree that when the town chooses your target, you will 100% commit to shooting that person. I don't give a fuck if you think they're town. That's not your call to make. You don't need to iso anybody. You do as you're fucking told, or you die today. You have proven without a doubt that you cannot be trusted with your power, and if you won't let yourself be directed you're a liability.

please provide the list

[Porochaz]

IMPORTANT!

@Zekrom: IF WE GIVE YOU A LIST OF POSSIBLE TARGETS WILL YOU KILL ONE OF THOSE TARGETS?

yes if they are scum i will

Let me be perfectly clear, if you don't get lynched, which Im still open to. Then you will kill exactly who we as a town decide on. No choice.

[sthar8]

Not if we're testing the doc claim too. Although I'm less sure about that than I was.

[sthar8]

EBWOP in reply to tman's last. Sorry.

[Porochaz]

He still gets to choose amongst the pool of targets.

No.

No he does not.

Not ever.

No

Nope

No

He lost that right when he chose not to play the game.

And again, no.

[Porochaz]

Not if we're testing the doc claim too. Although I'm less sure about that than I was.

Lets not be stupid about this.

If we test the doc claim then how do we test the vig claim, hmmm?

[tman2nd]

But, he has to choose. Are you suggesting he use random.org or something?

[sthar8]

please provide the list

See this is what makes me real fucking nervous about you. I've given you a list twice now, and you've acknowledged neither of them, which means you're not reading all the posts. And when I gave my player impressions, you somehow read into that a list that included my second strongest townread, a claimed doc, and

myself

. If you think I'd offer myself or my townreads as vig targets, then I have no clue what's going on in your mind. And I don't like it when I can't predict the vig.

[Zekrom25]

But, he has to choose. Are you suggesting he use random.org or something?

if that ^ is what the rest of the town wants

[sthar8]

Alright, it's 1 am and I have to be up at 8. But because I love you all and I'm a benevolent deity, I'm gonna talk about marquis before I sleep. tman can wait until tomorrow-ish.

Here's what tickles my scumdar from Marquis:

The whole time she was pushing the Zek lynch, she kept justifying why it wouldn't be too bad for her to be voting him if he flipped town.

pretty sure he's just stalling scum rather than mislynch bait.

After the lynch, Marquis could come back, point to this and say "oh well, I guess I was wrong." That's not indicative by itself, but it seems to be part of a pattern:

is it really supposed to be taken for granted that he's a VI? I mean, it feels like I'm the only one still thinking or maybe even just hoping he's scum. It's not like scum can't just be obvious if they're a new player, anyway

there's a difference between nothingbad and just plain scummybad right

Inconsistency is not necessarily a scum trait but it sure makes me want to vote people

To be honest I wouldn't want Zekrom alive with me in the end game.

^

this is probably the one time i've ever advocated for a policy lynch so zekrom if you're scum you should feel special and if you're town well you should still feel pretty special

All sound like 'I'll need to justify why I was on a town wagon tomorrow."

And when everybody's talking about Zek, she's ambivalent:

I do like the way he threw in the word town there though, guess he was worried we might mistake that for a straight out scum claim

I kind of maybe agree with this part at least

But when he's not the center of attention she's sure:

This discussion is tiresome let's lynch zekrom now I demand it

Plus:

and UT I thought I was a town read for you when did that change

pedit everyone is scum and everyone needs to die

look, it's day 1 and all I have to go on here is reactions. you seemed to be discrediting the chained vig plan, and that's the textbook scum reaction. sorry dude.

i'm sorry i have a scumread on you and therefore don't want town to have to follow whatever you're laying out for them

there are too many unknown variables, i.e. the presence of an rb/jk that can/will target zekrom and/or fish. there's probably going to be some shit where we mislynch town today, zekrom's action as real vig gets fucked with/we underestimate the number of scum kills or don't plan for multiball and zekrom claims one of two+ kills to get away for another day as scum

i can't tell anymore who between you, zekrom, or death for just even sheeping you now i want to lynch, but it's not fish at all today. i don't even care if he's pulling shit right now as scum because these concerns were all validated in that last game i finished and i'm done with the plans not working out

can we just lynch scum today and stop the fucking pr hunting

She doesn't like the plan that (at the very least) limits scum options, and argues against it with vague and irrelevant scare tactics, and a discredit 'push' on UT. Is there any evidence that UT is scum here? No. Nor is there any reason not the chain the claimed vig other than 'OMG guise it might not werk out!!!' So in the absence of legitimate reasons, why push against the plan at all?

Mostly, it looks like marquis wants to be on a mislynch without driving it, and is preemptively justifying it. Also, the argument against the vig chaining leaves a bad taste in my mouth and there's no scumhunting in that whole iso. Zekrom is obviously the easiest target we've seen today; there almost has to be scum on his wagon. And Marquis fits the bill.

I'll do tman tomorrow, and vote when I've decided which I find more compelling.

{prozac, UT, mollie} feels like town

[Porochaz]

But, he has to choose. Are you suggesting he use random.org or something?

No. We are giving him one name only. That is the list he is choosing from. As I say, he lost his right to choose.

[sthar8]

Not if we're testing the doc claim too. Although I'm less sure about that than I was.

Lets not be stupid about this.

If we test the doc claim then how do we test the vig claim, hmmm?

I think the idea was that scum would have to kill fish to allow zek's kill through. which would confirm zek as a killing role, and direct the scumkill. If nothing happened we'd just lynch zek tomorrow and let the fish situation resolve itself. I think I've decided to be happy with pruning lurkers though, especially if we shoot EPM/RC.

[RadiantCowbells]

IF YOU WANT ME DEAD LYNCH ME NOW SO THAT WE CAN BE SURE UT IS THE VIG TARGET

[Porochaz]

Thats a ridiculously stupid plan for a great many reasons.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's going to win us the game.

[Porochaz]

You're a ridiculously stupid man for a great many reasons.

[Green Crayons]

@Zekrom's night kill:

I've whittled my list of acceptable deaths down to PeregrineV and EPM. I'm happy for either to go, so I don't care if he makes a game-time decision as to which gets picked.

-----

VOTE: sthar

(1) Because Elyse's Post 972. In particular, sthar's interaction with mollie strikes me as scum trying to get into the good graces of a player they think will go to bat for them if convinced.

(2) Because sthar's Post 1009 looks like scum trying to push -reasons- to lynch a player other folks have already voiced a willingness to lynch. It looks that way because sthar's reasons are really quite bad (pointed out why below), but he gets the double benefit of looking like he's actively scumhunting (e.g., "look at this effort!") while being able to fall back on the fact that plenty of other players have already also stated Marquis suspicions (e.g., "alas, I, like all those other town, were mistaken").

- sthar uses quotes isolated from their context to concoct a scum motivation for their content while ignoring the ongoing discussion to which these posts were responding.

- sthar mischaracterizes what Marquis's posts are actually about. For example, Post 748 is talking about DeathNote, not Zekrom. And the ambivalent/sure point is based on Post 599, which speaks more to how Marquis feels about Fish than Zekrom.

- sthar thinks that finding fault with believing a vig-night-kill plan can actually survive scum fuckery even though scum are fully aware of what that plan is amounts to scumminess because... unclear. I am apparently unaware of sthar's extensive knowledge of all those times that scum haven't screwed an early-game, out-in-the-open town's night action plan, so that expressing doubt as to its success is no longer a "legitimate reason" to not champion such a plan.

[Untrod Tripod]

IF YOU WANT ME DEAD LYNCH ME NOW SO THAT WE CAN BE SURE UT IS THE VIG TARGET

[pirate mollie]

^ bored cos he is snowed in

[Elyse]

sthar is posting minimal content, pacifying mollie after engaging in an argument with her, and dropping forced, fake towntells like "Desp asked me to replace into this game and I raged when I got a town PM. You can check with him postgame." and "I have a townread on mollie. So happy to finally be on the same team." He keeps mentioning that he's town and he's not a new player so this is throwing up several red flags.

I thought I was scum because I wasn't defending myself against mollie? Where did that go?

It's still there. Instead of addressing mollie's points, you try to get her off your back by townreading her and saying you are a bad D1 lynch.

I don't think you can call 'not posting content' a scumtell ITT, unless you think we're in LYLO.

I don't get this nor do I understand how LyLo has anything to do with this. You aren't stupid and haven't posted any original content. It's all rehashed filler that everyone generally agrees with. (Your post about Marquis) That is a scumtell.

I'm still arguing with mollie, so you're going to need to go into more detail on the whole 'pacifying' thing.

You were like "BRING IT ON" and the minute mollie starts going after you, you're like "your reaction was good though" and you townread her. Yes you are arguing with her but you are trying to calm her down and get off your back.

Your 'fake, forced' towntells are actually alignment neutral, which might be why you think they're bad towntells.

No they are not. No townie makes fake, forced scumtells.

And I keep mentioning that I'm town because the argument against me is effectively 'he's totes scum' to which the only reply I can make is 'no, still town.' Insisting on your alignment might be a scumtell when it's done for no reason, but that doesn't apply here.

No it's not and yes it does.

I'm quite disappointed in your reading of my posts. It seems like you're stretching 'tells' to fit your narrative rather than the other way around. Are you afraid of me, Elyse?

No are you afraid of me?

[Untrod Tripod]

no! stop the walls!

[pisskop]

Im happy with Elyse. sheep time

vote: sthar8

Tomorrow I hope flips/nks help sort this.

[Gooner]

Urrgghhh, will try getting into this soon.

[Nikanor]

Zekrom: Please kill Gooner. I have information that says he is scum.

[Marquis]

my townlist: mollie, nikanor, rc, ??fish??????
my scumlist: ut, zekrom, sthar for some reason idk anymore

everyone else is probably-scum by default