Mini 1556: Greetings Without Spain (GAME OVER FAREWELL)

[Kthxbye]

pisskop

: Prob scum. A total of one post from this slot that had me reading his as town (p115). First thing that sticks out is him not even looking at those on his wagon for possible scum. This is the complete opposite of what I see wagoned town (including myself) tend to do. Next is this weird connection between him and Xay. d3x and I are close friends irl and play together often on this sight. If anything, I'm more suspect of him possibly being scum when I'm town than anything. The complete opposite is found from PK in regards to Xay's alignment culminating in his scum slip in p197 lumping himself in with Xay as "townies". There is absolutely no way (barring Masons which I doubt this game has) that he could know Xay's alignment without being scum and either KNOWING Xay is town or trying to make them both out to be town while they are both scum. My opinion at the moment is he should be today's lynch.

ICEninja

: Prob town. I'm not a fan of being seen as scummy when I feel I'm being as transparent as fuck in my reads and my posts. The only time I actually care how my shit comes out is when I'm scum. This is why Titus and d3x are telling you fools I'm town. Anyway, at this moment, there is little to no suspicion surrounding those on my wagon except coming from myself. I don't see scum-ICE unvoting when he did. That reads town re-considering and not tunneling more than scum trying to distance.

d3x

: Null atm. I dunno. I know this guy really well and there is a lot that looks like his town game in this game. There are some things though that I expect him to do as town that I haven't seen. It's still early though. Those talking about his post being fluff while ignoring all the other fluff out there is looking scummy to me though...especially when the mindset is that I'm going to be lynched today. Looks like setting up for multiple mis-lynches possibly. PK has done this specifically in p193. Thomith is guilty of this as well but I get different vibes from that slot (see below).

ika/Titus

: Null leaning town. Had this slot as scum while ika was around but Titus has only scored town points so far. Coming in when he did, scum him could easily have called me scum and jumped on. I always worry about scum distancing from a mis-lynch but I don't get those vibes from this atm.

Thomith

: Leaning town. I have seen town and scum both replace in and do a full thoughts list during a re-read. The issue I have with this slot being scum is that as scum, the smart thing to do would be to read first, figure out where you wanted to end up, and then fake the reread in order to avoid contradictions of yourself. He comes out the gate giving me a town lean. As time passes, this changes. I don't see the scum motivation for doing this. Shows transparency which is a town trait.

Kcdaspot

: Leaning scum but I don't know.... I thought this slot was derp derp moron troll town but he proved he actually does know how to play this game with p153. Super hard tunnel on town is usually a town trait but then again, I've seen scum do it too. I dunno. Prolly shouldn't be today's lynch and I might have him leaning scum just because I don't like how he plays MS (see all his post prior to p153).

Rhinox

: Null leaning scum. I dunno. Comes off friendly...a little too friendly? I'm not his top scum read, but I'm on the list opening the availability for him to vote me for today's lynch while being able to say (after the flip) that I was low on the priority and shouldn't have been lynched today. I dunno, could be paranoia, could be positioning.

Aisa

: Super null. Not enough posts. What posts are there could be viewed as scumhunting but there is no follow up from her. Not sure of alignment, but I do know she needs to post a lot more before the day ends.

Xayzeck

: Scum. All I think I know for sure is that there is scum between PK and Xay if not both. First he feels compelled to remind us all he's not scum multiple times. Then there is him being on my wagon with sheeping Kcd's case. He also doesn't really answer questions. Look at his ISO 6 and 7. Total scum backtracking.

Lucresia

: Null. I want to say leaning town because he's not all gung ho to lynch mean, but really need more activity.

Konowa

: ...........will probably be replaced soon.


Alright, now to the case on me from Kcd (Thom's is pretty much a reword of what Kcd has said). Every time I try and get into it, it pisses me off because everything I've posted has been in a manner to not hide any thoughts I have at the time of the post. I wrote something up and saved it as a draft. It was a lot meaner then. I fixed it up best I could to be less mean, but I know it's still pretty offensive.

First point: he completely ignores "Thus, with Star-wars type logic, pisskop is scum." Hmm...let's see, I us star-wars type logic and post it as such....how serious am I that I'm certain someone is scum in p27 of the game. Dumb point. Second bolded...Asking questions and expecting people to answer them in order to exit RVS is scummy now? OMFG dumb.

Second point: laughable. I have called him derp-town all game. I only want him dead because he's an idiot and bad for town. And town being transparent is scummy now? Town don't need to explain their thought process? WTF is this shit?

Third point: Calling someone to explain their posts is scummy again. So so so freaking stupid. There isn't shit about that post that's fluff. I'm calling you out for not doing anything to drive the game forward. Town or scum, your posts up till p153 have done nothing but bog down the game, not these fluff walls you claim I post.

"the rest":
1. already talked about and the point was copied from ICE I believe.
2. More attention on you to participate cuz you're being derp and not helping town or being transparent.
3. Explained and obviously not a sheep of PK.
4. 2 hops onto you? cuz I only see one vote there and that's because you are anti-town in your behavior and bogging this game down with your herp-derp posting.
"You can't claim you're scum hunting. as most of your posts were either useless questions or focused all on me."
questions get reads. That's scum hunting. Take a look at your ISO. You say I'm not hunting scum? YOU HAVE DONE SHIT ALL GAME. Now all you're doing is tunneling town and half heartily admitting Xay might be scum.
"you can't even claim you're town. You are acting far too aggressive and manipulative to people with votes on you."
Yeah, town don't ever look at their own wagon for possible scum. That would make no sense whatsoever.

So yeah, I cleaned that up, but I still think the case is wicked dumb.

All that said, today's lynch should either be PK or Xay.

[pisskop]

Next is this weird connection between him and Xay. d3x and I are close friends irl and play together often on this sight. If anything, I'm more suspect of him possibly being scum when I'm town than anything. The complete opposite is found from PK in regards to Xay's alignment culminating in his scum slip in p197 lumping himself in with Xay as "townies". There is absolutely no way (barring Masons which I doubt this game has)

This is my scumslip? Refering to Xayzeck as a 'townie' in a hypothetical about a kthnx/d3x scumteam?

Thats . . . thats sometthing.

Titus, is this really town to you?
What do you think Aisa?
Any thoughts on ika's behavior?
Opinion of KCD?

[Xayzeck]

Yes I'm bringing up the fact I'm VT a lot because I don't want my ass lynched. I don't play well with walls, because their a chore to read and they take up a lot of time, and this game has a whole ton of em.

kthx, if you're so sure I'm scum, why is pkop a better lynch?

[pisskop]

Titus, is this really town to you?
What do you think

of

Aisa?
Any thoughts on ika's behavior?
Opinion of KCD?

bolded edit.

[Xayzeck]

The scumslip was a weak reason for you to jump on the biggest wagon.

[Titus]

Titus, is this really town to you?
What do you think

of

Aisa?
Any thoughts on ika's behavior?
Opinion of KCD?

bolded edit.

Aisa, I like her a little bit at the moment but it's a very weak townread. ika and I tend to scumread each other a lot and view the game in very opposite ways. Then again, I'm not a fan of her vote on you, so that's nullish.

ika tends to be much more of a gut player while I rely on formal logic. Totally opposite players, we are friends but we bicker a lot for that reason. When we come together, it's usually damning on a particular player but I can't remember the last time we agreed on anything.

KCDA, total scum. That should be clarified by my postings and why. If not, you seriously need to reread them. I don't really feel like banging my head against a brick wall but I will if required.

I do think that kthx is town.

Look at Xayz... he just said something that is blatantly false. A scumslip is not a weak reason to jump onto a wagon. If someone scumslips, that's where town should be voting. The correct response is to say it's not really a scumslip as Pisskop did.

In short, I think that kthx is town and totally reading the game wrong.

[Kthxbye]

Yes I'm bringing up the fact I'm VT a lot because I don't want my ass lynched. I don't play well with walls, because their a chore to read and they take up a lot of time, and this game has a whole ton of em.

kthx, if you're so sure I'm scum, why is pkop a better lynch?

I'm sure one of you or PK or both are scum. PK posted something I see as a scum slip. He either knows you're town and lumped himself in with you, or you're both scum and he noobed it up by combining the both of you in the slip. It has more to do with ALL my reads combined than just my read of you that makes me think PK is the better lynch.

The scumslip was a weak reason for you to jump on the biggest wagon.

....really....I mean....REALLY?

I'll sheep the kthx case. It's all fanceh.

^That's you jumping on the new shiney counter wagon to PK. ^That's a better reason to jump onto a wagon?

I'd be happy to lynch you today as well.

In short, I think that kthx is town and totally reading the game wrong.

How am I reading the game wrong?

Kcdaspot: Leaning scum but I don't know....
Xayzeck: Prob Scum.
pisskop: Prob scum.

Where are your reads and my reads so different that I'm reading the game wrong?

Looking for page 1 scum claims is suspect in and of themselves. Kcda claims scumslip and pushes everything but the slipper supposedly in the next few pages.

Xay also irks me. He has been jumping on every wagon with a pulse but Kcda.

Pisskop taking off then falling apart suggest scum influence somewhere but does not require it.

[ICEninja]

I read through Xay's ISO. At first I didn't really see the case against him, but this comment from Rhinox sums up my feelings quite nicely:

Xay is more interested in explaining every single action he's done or may do than trying to find scum. That is why he's scum. Its hard to fake genuine scumhunting as scum, and Xay is faking it very poorly.

Xay's post 89 in particular is really bad. I don't see much original thought coming from his slot except wishy-washy stuff.

This is what concerns me about pisskop:

Rhinox. Got nothing of note. Doesnt seem concerned with impressing people. So that.

Titus. You. :/ I was slightly suprised when mod said ika found you. Post more please.

Thom. Very upfront. Some issues for me following everything but definitely putting in work.

There isn't a single read in there. It is all information instead of analysis.

In terms of the players themselves, I'm fairly on the fence about which is more voteworthy at the moment. However if I look at the players voting them, I feel much much better about joining the players voting Xay.

Vote Xayzeck

unless pisskop continues to give not-reads, in which point I might find my vote switching.

[Titus]

I don't like Pisskop as scum. Pisskop's wagon taking off and putting together suggests scum present somewhere on his wagon, not that he was scum. I don't see your slip at all. You're also misstating why I feel you are town. I don't feel you are town bc you are scummy but your lack of survivalistic intent.

I also don't quite understand your Tom read.

The last post gives me a little bit of the creeps, like you wanted to end up where I was feeling the game, and you were shocked when we didn't match.

I'm fine with either KCDA or Xay. Expect my vote on whichever is bigger ATM barring new information.

[ICEninja]

Oh my Xay just claimed VT without heavy pressure put on him. Bad bad bad, don't think I'll be moving my vote anywhere.

[Kthxbye]

I don't like Pisskop as scum. Pisskop's wagon taking off and putting together suggests scum present somewhere on his wagon, not that he was scum. I don't see your slip at all. You're also misstating why I feel you are town. I don't feel you are town bc you are scummy but your lack of survivalistic intent.

I also don't quite understand your Tom read.

The last post gives me a little bit of the creeps, like you wanted to end up where I was feeling the game, and you were shocked when we didn't match.

I'm fine with either KCDA or Xay. Expect my vote on whichever is bigger ATM barring new information.

The Thom read comes from him being genuine in his reread. It's kinda like how my last post gives you the creeps for ending up where it did. If Thom was scum and wanted an easy vote on town, I don't see him stating he got town vibes from me earlier. If he was scum, I'd see him at least taking anything positive toward my slot so it looked less contradictory when he voted me.

After looking through your ISO to see why you thought I was reading the game wrong, I came across your reads. They happened to be similar to mine so I asked you about it. I did think about how it might be used against me by some but meh, I wanted to ask the question. I wasn't a fan of any of those 3 long before you came in so it's more the reads just being similar than me trying to mimic your reads.

As for PK, I disagree with your analysis of his early wagon. I'm in a better spot than you to see it due to being the counter wagon to his. Then again, looking back at the VC's just now, 2 of my 3 scum pile were on his wagon so maybe you aren't off on PK. I dunno yet. I'm still having a hard time with how town would say " to lynch

townies

" when we don't have a clue about anyone's alignment but our own. His p201 does NOTHING to explain it either.

Oh, and also this little nugget. He posts:

Titus, is this really town to you?

in reference to me yet his vote is on ika under the reasoning of

This is not my experience with ika. To reduce all the current conversation to as series of one-liners and then proceed to post a practically naked vote on somebody is enough to flag him for watch. This same ika spent pages setting up and playing intellectual games to try to ferret out scum before.
His apparent apathy doesn't seem genuine to me, otherwise he would just request to be placed out instead of just adding to the mess. Im not even getting into his opinion of me in 109, considering everything I've witnessed him do and say. I don't want grudges carried on inter-game, but he makes it so easy sometimes.

half of which isn't even pertinent anymore considering

YOU

replaced him.

Yes, that's right. His vote is on you b/c ika's disinterest seemed fake.....which turned out to be not so fake seeing as he replaced out.

Then again, both Xay and Kcd were on PK earlier..../sigh, I dunno.

[Titus]

Kthx, can you go through premise by premise why Pisskop slipped? While I agree that Pisskop's reasons for his vote are no longer valid, it could be a plausible (but incorrect) belief that ika replaced out in order to townfirm the slot. I think that's the next thing to do. If you'd convince me that Pisskop slipped, then my vote would naturally go there. If I convince you that Pisskop didn't slip, we can likely move together in a manner that will cause us to lynch scum.

[d3x]

{Close enough to} Everyone is here and talking! Yay! Now it's time to tell you guys why Xay should swing whenever it's time for our D1 Lynch.

p38 - Feigned concern with tongue-in-cheek reaction over L-1 on page 2.
p45 - Elluding to his Kcd Vote being a LEGIT VOTE and then backing off. Presuming that both he

and

piss will Buddy this game and then making terrible 'alignment indicative' comment.
49 - The antiWagon post regarding the Wagon he started.
89 - Calling Kcd derpy, but without backing it up. Note, he 1st called Kcd derpy in p49, but can't list specifics from the

12

posts that caused this reaction. It's not like we were 25 pages in, this was the 1st 2 pages and yet he can't back up his statements. Calling me scummy on multiple fronts for legitimate {but ultimately untrue} reasons, but then calling me Town and UnVotign without ReVoting anywhere else. This terrible statement...

if I do actually buddy him a lot and he flips scum I don't get mislynched.

p160 - Straight making shit up about what I said, backhandedly trying to discredit me by saying that I admitted to lying. Blatant Sheeping w/o adding anything to the KthxWagon to L-3. Kneejerk reaction to the

2 Votes

on him, not addressing that neither of us have done anything to build a case, just saying he's not Scum.
p166 - Pushing that I somehow was pushing misinformation about his statement

again

, when I have explained that his poor usage of pronouns caused confusion on who he was talking about. If he actually believed this, it should be a legit fucking ScumTell that I was lying and misrepping him, but he's all 'ho-hum, i'll sheep b/c i have no strong reads'. Once again saying he's Town without addressing the fact that no one on the Wagon has given any reason to be on him. I even talkk about the fact that I haven't stated a case.
202 - Claiming VT. HandWaving at the game thread b/c Walls. Playing Survivor Mafia.
204 - Saying a ScumSlip is a weak reason for joining a Wagon, while not addressing the veracity of the Slip itself. Calling the pissWagon the 'biggest' Wagon, thus painting Kthx as opportunistic. At the time, piss had

1 Vote

. He also pulls a StrawMan, ignoring the rest of everything Kthx has to say about his pissVote and attacking the Slip.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is why Xay should Swing... Today. Voting starts now. Polls will close at the end of the Day.

oh... and I'll probably get to the rest of the thread later tonight or tomorrow.

[Thomith]

FOS: Titus

assuming kthx is town like you say, you are like the only one really pushing this through, whereas if you were both town, wouldn't there be more people than just you (and d3x but he isn't really pushing this) pushing through kthx as town?

If kthx is town Titus is scum for 199 and is looking to gain towncred after the flip.

(barring Masons which I doubt this game has)

Why? We have no information on the setup but you are already dismissing masons?

#200 - kthx's read on KCDA looks oppurtunistic, that he is giving himself a reason to vote KCDA if he becomes the lynch today after finding him town the rest of the game.

Leaning scum

I have called him derp-town all game.

I only want him dead because he's an idiot and bad for town

Nice contradiction within 19 lines. You say he is leaning scum, but then go on to say you have been thinking he is derp-town for the entire game. wut?


#202 *facepalm* Xay why the hell did you just claim? For NO reason.
There was no pressure on you at all, why did you feel the need to claim?

You know what, while i would prefer a Titus/kthx lynch today as it would provide more information, i can't ignore your scummy play.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Xay

FOS: kthx
FOS: Titus

[d3x]

D3x is more aggressive than I am used to.

I find this to be a really odd sentiment. Titus and I have played exactly 1 game together and that game cannot be discussed atm.

but that doesn't change the point.

it doesn't? it pretty much changes the meaning of the quote but it doesn't change your point that was based on what you thought it meant originally? Huh?

He's alluding to me editing/snipping his statement, thus changing the context. I quoted the portion where I thought he was talking about piss. Including the entirity of his statement wouldn't make me think he

wasn't

talking about piss. Thus, it didn't change the point.

i cant read d3x thus far as he hasn't posted alot.

Whaa--?

ftr- I disagree with the KthxWagon.

Why?

(Buddying Noted)

I answer this later, I think. The super short version is meta. The context to meta is knowing Kthx iRL for ~20yrs and playing in over a dozen games with him. Though by no means perfect, I have a pretty high accuracy in regards to reading him.

Kthx, this is a terrible Vote and you should be ashamed.

serious question - do you still not want a kthx wagon, if so why?

Serious answer. I am still against a KthxWagon. He should be ashamed because I believe he's Town. If he were Scum, he'd have nothing to be ashamed of. Somewhere in here I think I've also given my breakdown of why I think he Voted and why I feel he is Town because of it.

While I don't do a whole lot of meta, d3x seems convinced that Kthx is town because he's scummy. I honestly don't get it. Why would a town player do so much that is against his wincon? This 1v1 is awful, and pushes way too much attention to him. It either is a scum gambit or a really REALLY REALLY bad town play.

If you don't put much stock in meta, I don't know how I can really break it down for you. Not trying to sound like a dick, but it is what it is. The reason I strongly feel he's Town is meta. If you read almost any of Kthx's Town Games, you'll see what I mean. He pulls a lot of aggro D1 by being scummy, though he will tell you with his dying breath that he's not being scummy.

I think {

d3x

} leans scum. Im waiting for something I feel is conclusive.

Ugh. Why do you insist on being such a passive player? Why don't you ask me something instead of 'waiting' on something. Maybe it's just a playstyle difference, but this kind of stuff just feels like a huge copout. Also, why have you not responded to anything I said in p143? I'd think that if you're interested in me as Scum, you wouldn't pass up the chance to delve into a discussion I'm having... with you.

Kthx's catch of the piss 'Slip' is more compelling when you consider the last Read I could find piss giving of Xay is...

If I had to pick out a scum from everyone who commented upon my interactions I would pick Xay

Why? We have no information on the setup but you are already dismissing masons?

This is not precisely true.

[Thomith]

Whaa--?

That was like page 3, i now think you could be scum by assosiation and some of your posts (your first "wall" post especially) have been mostly fluff, but other than that i would prefer others lynches over yours.

also pissk want to explain your flip flop on Xay as d3x posted above?

[d3x]

That was like page 3, i now think you could be scum by assosiation and some of your posts (your first "wall" post especially) have been mostly fluff

It was based on page 5 and as I look back I had over 10% of the thread's nonMod posts at that point. I guess it's w/e, but I find it odd that you feel most of my posts to that point had been largely fluff, but you couldn't get a read off of me. Do you not feel fluff posts are alignment indicative?

Also, in your previous posts you call me out as your #1 suspect. How does that work? I'm your 1st top suspect, but you don't have a strong read on me... later?

[Xayzeck]

Okay I owe pkop a proper game. I'll find the time later to go through this game and sort out everyone. I haven't been playing this well because they're too many walls that I'm too lazy to go through.

Until then,
UNVOTE:

[Thomith]

after reading pages 1-3 you were my #1 suspect d3x because of the fluffwall you posted, however later on there are alot of people i find more scummy, that paired with the fact that my other suspects lynches (Titus/kthx hell maybe even pissk) give more information on their flip via associations than yours would.

[Thomith]

You have picked up the pace with the content in your posts, however i still find you suspicious because of some of your posts look like you are trying to look like you are contributing when you are saying very little game related. However, as i said above we gain more information lynching other people today.

[Thomith]

Also, you posted alot of fluff between page 1-page 5, which is what i meant by "wasnt posting alot" i see maybe one post that has a fair bit of content in it and that was about it.
(i need to stop tripple posting...)

[d3x]

My point is...

By page 3 I'm your #1 suspect b/c my 'fluff' posting.
By page 5 you can't get a Read on me b/c I haven't posted enough.

This is what I want you to reconcile. It has nothing to do with you finding others scummier or getting more info from other flips.

[Thomith]

I think your fluff posting could make you scum trying to look like you are contributing (from page 3) page 5 i got caught up in the KCDA/kthx thing, and you werent really posting much and when you did post you didn't post much content (bar 1 wall post) which is why you are slightly leaning scum to me. Also, because of how others have acted you have jumped down my scum list which, coupled with the reason your flip wont give much info right now, i dont think you should be the lynch today.

To answer your question i still think you could be scum.

[d3x]

Funny. None of that sounds like you can't get a read on me.

And for the record, I never asked you if you still think I'm Scum. Frankly, I don't care.

[Thomith]

i couldnt read you properly because of everything else going on at that point (page 3-5) if that is what you're getting at.