Mini 1536 - Silph Co. Reverse Mafia (Game Over)

[cxinlee]

bulba, the thing is until he hardclaims, and his role is proven, we don't know if he's an anti-town third-party or not. Heck, he could even be mafia

Pedit: Yes Tier, I just feel so ugh lazy right now, and I can't read any scum. Go read my games, and there, you'll fine similar examples (Some games are the opposite of this, however.)

[TierShift]

Can you link me to a similar towngame? Do you have a scumgame you can link to?

[TierShift]

If there are 2 third party roles in this game, (has there ever been if a 13 player game? ), that would suggest a 2 mafia team because otherwise it would be a bit unfair.

Unfair to whom? The town? It also seems a bit unfair to the scum to only have two, right?

But I'm also wondering, does anybody have a recollection of there being 2 3rd party roles in a mini theme and can you remember any instance of there being just 2 scum in a mini theme?

[Paschendale]

So Whiskers, can I interest you in a tiershift lynch yet? It's rather obvious that we're getting close to an endgame for the mafia... we've gone 2 lynches with no success and they've gotten a free kill. Given a third party as well, and the fact that Coney Island games do generally have at least three mafia members, we should at least suspect that we need a mafia lynch.

Which is why it is even WORSE that people want Whiskers today. That, at the end of the day, is still a win for the mafia fraction because it just is one less person towards the 50/50 Town/mafia ratio wincon. Lynching a third party player at this point over trying to get scum hung is strictly anti-town due to the fact that we gain no ground against the scum team. We can't afford to not lynch scum at this point in the game.

That's a good point. I mostly wanted to kill Whiskers for being difficult. Let's lynch a scum and let Whiskers simmer. Tier is 100% the most likely scum candidate.

I don't have a kill.

There, you happy?

now

I'm "guaranteeing to avoid as nightkill."

@AJ: I was on Tiershift's wagon before pasche decided we should 1v1. I have no problem going back, although perhaps you should consider he's one of the few players who

hasn't

suggesting lynching me. (Because in the post where you say, "let's lynch Tier!" you also say, "voting whiskers is antitown!")

I didn't 1v1 you. I'm obviously town and anyone voting for me is either not town or morbidly stupid. This argument between us was never putting my neck on the line.

I've done a bit of rereading. I don't see bulb and pasch as scum together, seeing how bulb handled pasch's claim. Pasch is probably town anyway, I see now.
It still doesn't look like a genuine scumread to me and the way how this is his only argument for me-scum versus all the others he has given for me-town really stinks.
Plus, the way in which he didn't really doubt pasch's claim at any moment, but just acted a little bit surprised and then went along doesn't really look like a town reaction to someone claiming, more like scum who know the claim to be true.

Uuuugggghhh.... Seriously, does Tiershift have any ideas of his own? He just keeps shifting among other people's ideas, looking for the safe play. This is not a genuine theory from him. It's just another attempt to find a safe lynch.

bulba, the thing is until he hardclaims, and his role is proven, we don't know if he's an anti-town third-party or not. Heck, he could even be mafia

He could even be a VT trying to draw kills. I'm kind of tired of arguing about it. Let's just lynch scum and let third parties simmer.

Unvote
Vote: Tiershift

Dry and Max, do you think that Max and Bulb, respectively, are really more likely scum than TierShift? Please expound if you do.

[Whiskers]

There, you happy?

now

I'm "guaranteeing to avoid as nightkill."

which would imply that beforehand, you felt that you were leaving yourself open to the possibility of drawing the nightkill.
see, the problem I have with this is - since you are third party - if you drew the nightkill, presumably

you would lose

you are expecting us to believe that you are playing detrimental to your independent win condition and helping us out because we are sucking and mislynching.
I don't think so. If I was third party in your position, I would chuck the town to the wolves if they weren't pulling their shit together.

Ah, ah, but

before,

I was in trouble for having removed myself from the nightkill-pool (which I had not).
Anyway, doesn't matter. I need to tell town from scum, too. It's not as simple as "survive."

That's a good point. I mostly wanted to kill Whiskers for being difficult.

Link me to one,

single motherfucking goddamned place

where I was "difficult". I dare you, bitch. Find me just

one.

Btw,

Pasch, if you don't track whiskers tonight I'll take it as a scumclaim.

Tier is still trying to get me to find other PRs, getting information that is more helpful to the scum team. He sees that Whiskers is working with town, and wants to eliminate the threat, because even if a third party role doesn't conflict with town, it certainly conflicts with scum.

Do we lynch Cheery or Tier today?

How the fuck is "track whiskers," him trying to get you to "find other PRs"? How is it "eliminating the threat"?

All that aside, let's lynch TierShift. He's been on my radar since the beginning.
. . .
TierShift is consistently accomplishing nothing. He claims that this is his town game, but if your town game is indistinguishable from a really bad scum play, then you need a lot of practice. Tier has far more often been a source of confusion than of clarity, and has been jumping on wagons that he even admits he didn't have much faith in. Playing like scum doesn't absolve you just because you hang a lampshade on it.

Sounds like a policy lynch.


Actually, let me go back and do all the ones where you say, "let's lynch Tier!" Lol. It'll be fun!

[Cheery Dog]

Actually, let me go back and do all the ones where you say, "let's lynch Tier!" Lol. It'll be fun!

Thank goodness someone else has finally noticed this part of why pasch is scum.

[Whiskers]

I have an ISO mainly full of attacks on your posts.

Awwwww yeah. Here we go.

I don't get why Dry Fit is voting me or why Tiershift now agrees with it. Apparently being kinda serious and kinda not serious during RVS is a scumtell now. Who knew? Dry Fit's vote looks silly, but TS' looks serious, which is puzzling because it is nonsensical. Plus the initial vote on DF before now sheeping looks like distancing.

Post 18, Dry-Fit votes you.
Post 20, TierShift votes Dry-Fit in RVS. Apparently voting in RVS is a scumtell now, eh Pasche? Who knew!
Post 49, Dry-Fit prompts TierShift to sheep him.
Post 69, TierShift does.
Here, I'm looking into it, now, why Tiershift voted.

Spoiler: Why TierShift voted Pasche

Unlike you, I do agree with bulba that there is possibly/probably (what's the word I'm looking for here?) is a scum on the wagon. Like, it's not a very strong clue, but it's something at a point in time where we have nothing else.

I feel like you only now ended RVS, but still, my vote on you was semi-serious. You were on the whiskers wagon, then in 14 you sounded a tad like towncred-fishing scum. Then 16, probably just your average RVS crap, but it doesn!'t feel completely right.

It's weird, I must be missing something. Didn't

you

say there must be scum on the Whiskers wagon?

Why do you think this and why is it any different from randomly picking a lynch pool?

Scum sheep. A lot. When a wagon builds very quickly without reason (even in rvs) there is often scum on it.

Oh, hey, it's just exactly what you said! ((in post 14. Or was that just "kinda serious kinda not serious"?))

...As you yourself say here:

And just as often not. What if Whiskers were scum? Would you still think that about this wagon?

I pointed out exactly this exact point, still on the first page, and yet you think that I'm the scummiest person on the wagon.

You know what, I like this post. Actually, I'm going to keep this one in here and copy another out into the Main ISO.

Here it is, again. Let's look at it in detail.

And just as often not. What if Whiskers were scum? Would you still think that about this wagon? I pointed out exactly this exact point, still on the first page, and yet you think that I'm the scummiest person on the wagon. But then again, I was referring to a wagon with an actual flip. When there would be reason to start analyzing it.

Ah, my mistake.

THIS

is what you were referring to with Post 14. That we should

actually

lynch me with an incredibly short Day 1, and then we'd be able to catch scum on the wagon. Right? And I know you meant

actually,

you said you were being "kinda serious" about it. Sounds good to me; trading town for scum on a 1:1 means town wins on Day 3. Only problem is...

Scum could just as easily have been avoiding it to keep their teammate from getting randomly lynched. And on such a quick wagon, the later votes are much more suspect, not the third one.

Did-- did you forget you were trying to defend yourself? You wanted a wagon with an actual flip, so you could analyze to narrow down scum, except that now you're saying that scum "could just as easily have been off the wagon," meaning that it wouldn't have made a damn difference anyway? Oh, ok. Good.

Wow, browsing through the thread, I'm not the first one to have realized this, either! (Psyche, post 88)

The other problem with this bit is the weird meta

((not

your

meta, game meta))

thing you do: "The third vote isn't suspect! I can't be scum, scum only votes late on the wagon!!" Really? ((Personally, I've found that right around the third vote is the

best

place to be on a wagon, as scum-- basically because you know the wagon is gaining traction, and because you

aren't

suspected for being a tail-end voter.))

The more you try to defend this vote on me, the worse it looks.

Lolololol.

Maybe we should string you up instead of Bulb. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a scumteam of you, Zekrom, and Kenobi.

Peedit: And Kenobi sheeps his scumbuddy. And points out something that is not at all a scumtell to back it up.

That's 2/3 scum found. I wonder if Zek will pop in and make it a trifecta. Which one should we lynch first?

Ah, neat! Vote is still on Bulb, and 2/3 scum (Tier and Ken) found. Good, good.
Let's go to Bulbazak for an appropriate response:

Yes, threaten him.

And you know what? That's

neat.

Let me skip ahead a little bit:

TierShift . . . could be lumped in with Kenobi and Zekrom, as the three of them constitute the clearly inexperienced bloc of the game.

Why

are

you threatening the noobs? Why are you trying to back down? Tiershift is scumhunting. Actually, fuck trying to paraphrase; TierShift already said this in

his

response to your post:

Ok my vote goes from semi-serious to serious. I find your defensivity concerning.

You imply that I should not defend my vote on you, without giving actual reasons for it, you just say it looks scummy. That's AtF.

Then, you call me scum, with the guys that are playing their first game here. That's pretty damn low. I think these guys belong in the Newbie forum, but don't try to mix up newbieness with scumminess here.

If you think that I'm scum, vote me, not bulba.

BOOM. Man, I love how he even throws in that little bit at the end, which I read endearingly as, "Try me, bitch!" Of course, I already said that (above), but TierShift gets an "A" for effort.



Oh wait, wait, wait, I forgot something!

But then again, I was referring to a wagon with an actual flip. When there would be reason to start analyzing it.

Yeah, duh, scum don't hop onto quickwagons. Especially in RVS, when it's pretty much totally safe to do so.

Even if Whiskers were scum, such a quick wagon is suspicious. Scum bus, especially during RVS.

Oh that's right.... They do...

[TierShift]

Uh whiskers, do you actually think pasch is scum, or are you just trying to save your hide?

I still wonder if there is any incentive for you to try and make town win the game.

[Whiskers]

Alright, so, we already have one strike against you, Pasche: trying to push a quicklynch wagon through, on an assumption that, later, you yourself admit is groundless. "But," you (presumably) cry, "That was just RVS!" Ok, ok, don't worry. Whiskers, P.I., is on the fucking case, sleuthing out bullshit around every turn. ((Btw, isn't this, (post 86) an appeal to authority?))
Ok, right. Bullshit Sleuthing.

Oh shit-- I missed this whole thing from Pasche!

Ok my vote goes from semi-serious to serious. I find your defensivity concerning.

I'm not defending myself. I'm attacking you. I don't need defending because the only votes for me besides an RVS that never left is you and your scumbuddies. And you all voted for me, like a row of little ducklings.

No, you're right-- you didn't defend yourself. But TierShift is also right-- you got really defensive. The votes came and you threw a fit. You know. I already made a post about it.

You imply that I should not defend my vote on you, without giving actual reasons for it, you just say it looks scummy. That's AtF.

I imply nothing. I'm saying you're doing it badly. I'm saying that you're making so many bad assumptions to justify your predetermined conclusion that it's obvious that it's a ploy. You've said that your argument doesn't even hinge on Whiskers' alignment. Just that quick wagons sometimes have scum on them. I'd agree... if they actually went to a lynch. But you still offer nothing as to why THIS quick wagon had scum on it.

Where is Dry-Fit, in all of this? It was his idea in the first place, and TierShift was sheeping him. Remember?
Now, let me point out the bullshit:

"I'd agree... if they actually went to a lynch."

There it is~!

Why?

The chance for scum to be on a wagon

does not change

depending on whether or not the wagon goes through. Well, ok; technically it changes by the amount of the one more player that needs to be

on

to wagon to lynch. But if a wagon goes "town, town, scum, town, scum," and doesn't go to lynch, it's still just as

likely

to have scum on it, as the wagon that has "town, town, scum, town, scum, town" on it. See?

You

can

fucking analyze wagons that don't go to lynch-- especially quickwagons, which, as Tiershift already said in a post, are suspect. Do I really need to explain

that

to you?

You know what, fuck you mate. I'll go ahead and explain it to you.

When a wagon grows really, really, fast (see, like a racecar!), it's more suspicious because townies (that's the good guys ) are supposed to be more careful, whereas mafia (that's the bad guys >:C ) want to

lynch

the townies, and hope for the wagon to accidentally go through, either by scum quickhammer, noob quickhammer, or accidental quickhammer.

Btw, that's also the reason we fucking analyze

flipped

wagons, which you seem to think hold veritable tomes of knowledge about the scumteam (despite also saying that "that's just an assumption" and so they are useless); scum go onto the wagon to push the lynch through. So... yeah. You're full of shit.

Now, I think it had scum on it, too. But not simply because it was a quick wagon. I think it did because of how some of the votes were cast and then later treated. Specifically the votes cast by your two scumbuddies.

WOOO! Let's analyze this one! To do so, I'm going to have to go into...

The Futuuuurrreee~~~!!!!

Spoiler: In the Future

New players roll scum sometimes. TS needs to get off this whole "we can't lynch newbies" thing.

Go on.

Tell me more.

Lol OMGUS is a noob-town tell when it's emotional and angry.

Ah, I see. Do continue.

Lol OMGUS is a noob-scum tell because all playstyles are the same and also semantic bullshit.

Yes, yes, that's a good point.
Any parting words?

An important thing to understand, TierShift, is not just to see newb tells, but to know which ones are town and which ones are scum.

VOTE: Zekrom

Mm, mm, yes. Truly, words to live by.

...wait, why didn't you talk about "how some of the votes were cast and then later treated"...

on the Whiskers wagon, which was what you specifically referenced??

Wouldn't the thing you're using as [The reason they are scum] be a great way to show us (Tiershift, particularly, because for some reason, you're into showing scum* why their scumbuddies are scum*) that they

are

scum?

Then, you call me scum, with the guys that are playing their first game here. That's pretty damn low. I think these guys belong in the Newbie forum, but don't try to mix up newbieness with scumminess here.

If this is their first game, tough on them. They should be in Newbie games instead. Tell me, why do you think new players can't roll scum? They'll look like newb scum then, rather than newb town. Your newb scum scumbuddies look like newb scum.

Since I've been to the future, I've already dealt with this. Having seen the outcome yourself, Pasche... are you prepared to eat your words?

Whiskers' comments about this are, as expected, spot on. I'm glad you finally make it, Whiskers. I missed you.

Oh, go on, you sycophant, you. <3

[Whiskers]

So last episode, we went over ... ah fuck, I don't even remember how I was going to put it, it's 3:34 AM and I have school in the morning.
Sigh.

The next several posts have more bullshit, but nothing substantial-- and by that, I don't mean to say that Pasche's posts have ever been particularly substantial here, no, instead I'm saying that the attacks aren't worth commenting on. If you're interested, read 147, 151, and 170. Post 219 has a little bit more kissing my ass, but not enough to warrant an ointment.

An now, I will quote every single time Pasche mentions Tiershift (up until the next point I want to make)

Spoiler: And Then Pasche Thought TierShift Was Scum

It also really feels like Tier is trying to protect Zek. No part of me would be surprised to see them on a scumteam together.

. . .

-Gets the Rope-
TierShift
Zekrom

I think Tiershift is my top choice right now. I would very much like to hear people weigh in on that.

Unvote

VOTE: TierShift

I think a lynch would improve the quality of this game. Discussion has been stale and taking another 10 days is gonna give us nothing but apathy.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: cxinlee

PLEASE CAN WE KILL THIS!?!?!

Tiershift and Zek are still my top scumreads. I'm cool to lynch Zek today, as he has all but claimed scum, but I really feel like a lot of players have gone under the radar.

VOTE: Tiershift

I don't know Cx's alignment, but I feel a lot more sure of Tiershift and Zek.

. . .

But Tiershift, Tiershift doesn't have that excuse either way. He's been consistently against progress the whole day, has relied on crap arguments, and generally gives reads that look strategic rather than genuine.

Meanwhile, I should have held out for a Tiershift lynch yesterday, and I want one now.

VOTE: Tiershift

AJ, there are literally 3 sentences in that post of why you think Emp is scum, and most of them revolve around Emp thinking that Tiershift is scum. Tiershift is my top scumread. So... got any better reasons?

. . .

My problem with Emp is that I think he and Bulba are scum for exactly the same reasons, but as I said above, I think they are the same alignment. If I'm wrong about Tiershift, then I will definitely want to string one or both of them up.

. . .

But I'm certainly less sure of this than of Tiershift being scum.

I'd far prefer to lynch Tiershift than Emp,

Oh, and I "bring attention back to Emp and Bulba" after nobody else wants to lynch Tiershift and instead are all voting for Empking,

. . .

Bulba, the meat of what post? And what questions? 449? It contained exactly one question, and that question was answered in the post you were quoting. The PoE I was doing was trying to figure out if Tiershift as your third scumpartner made sense. It didn't terribly, but as I've said all along, I think that you and Emp are the same alignment more than specifically scum or town.

. . .

And I'd rather lynch Tiershift anyway,

Also, that's not at all why I attacked Tiershift. I attacked him for his shallow reasoning and his unfounded votes. I attacked him for having shit ideas and not helping town find scum. I attacked him for continual anti-town posts. And now he's relying on misreps to attack me.

So, Whiskers, how about we lynch Tiershift instead?

Yeah, that's some. 11 just through here.

Never say "must be" without a flip.

Oh, you mean like here?

Unlike you, I do agree with bulba that there is possibly/probably (what's the word I'm looking for here?) is a scum on the wagon. Like, it's not a very strong clue, but it's something at a point in time where we have nothing else.

Actually-- wait, wait, let me look at that.

Never say "must be" without a flip.

Also, that's not at all why I attacked Tiershift. I attacked him for his shallow reasoning and his unfounded votes.

What the fuck do you actually

want,

man?

Also, as far as post 469 goes, I'm pretty sure he not only hasn't been "not helping the town find scum," but has in fact not had "continual anti-town posts." Actually, I'm pretty sure "continual anti-town posts" is a load of bullshit. Can you fucking back that shit up, bro? I don't actually think you can, but I'm willing to evaluate, if you're willing to try. If you're not willing to try, I'll assume that you simply can't.


And actually, there's something else I need to point out:
In post 463, Pasche gets all offended that I called him out for using exaggerated phrasing.
So... Does anybody remember this post?

He said that the vote . . . "seems to be a scum-like thing to do at this point in the game" which is an extremely careful thing to say.

[Whiskers]

Oh right, sorry. I forgot to make a point:

Pasch says he gets mislynched when he uses a "more-reserved fashion." So, he instead mislynches Zekrom for speaking in a "more reserved fashion."

Now, I can't actually attack him for scum on this, as I had a similar thing in one of my first games (something about "I get mislynched when I do this. ____ is doing that same thing I get mislynched for, so I am voting for him. Why do I think it's a scumtell, if I only do it as town and not scum? Well, I assume the players mislynching me have

some

reason for thinking I'm scum...").

But I can call him a big stupid hypocrite.

"You're a big stupid hypocrite."

Also, it's Now 4:30 in the morning. If I go to sleep

now

, I can still get four hours or so before I have to get up and go to uni...

Uh whiskers, do you actually think pasch is scum, or are you just trying to save your hide?

I still wonder if there is any incentive for you to try and make town win the game.

Just for the record, do you give
a shit?
Or, why are you even asking?

I'm pretty sure attacking this guy wouldn't fucking "save my hide." Especially since what I've turned up-- rampant hypocrisy, Argument from Repetition, and a handful of contradictions-- is wholly underwhelming as a case for scum.

[Whiskers]

So Pasche, my mission for you, is for you to tell me how my wagon, in the wee hours of Day 1, something something, as per this post;

Now, I think it had scum on it, too. But not simply because it was a quick wagon. I think it did because of how some of the votes were cast and then later treated.

I want you to specifcally tell me what about their votes made Teirsihdt, Zejkrin, and Kansubi, scum.

Because you said you could, and then proceeded to do it with a

different

post. what the fuck.

[TierShift]

Yay someone is finally seeing all the shit I said day 1.

You doing this so vigilantly probably answers my question.

[Paschendale]

Nice tantrum, Whiskers. There's very little truth in it, but it's got all kinds of anger. It's cute, though. You just keep attributing motivations to me that I don't really have. My actions aren't deceptive or malicious, but if you proclaim that I'm only doing them because I'm deceptive and malicious, it must make sense!

1. You're difficult because you're holding out information. You're refusing to help us win and then getting angry when we want to punish you for it. You're a liability.

2. Tiershift has been trying to get me to track people and reveal them "in order to clear myself" all day. He's said nothing about finding scum by tracking them, just finding powers. The only people who can find out that someone has powers and not care what their alignment is are scum. Tier's intent is not to find scum, it's for me to reveal that people have powers.

3. Lynching people who are acting like scum is not a policy lynch. You know this. Stop lying.

4. I didn't say that we should quicklynch you, only what the results of such an action would be. This is a perfect example of you making up motivations for me that aren't really there. When I advocate for something, I do so in black and white. The only thing I was implying in that statement was that pursuing it would be dangerous for scum, since it would out them. I was trying to save you, not kill you.

5. I have no idea what your points are about post 85. They're disjointed and make no sense. But you seem to have a problem with my tendency to analyze all sides of a situation and not just always assume that I'm right. Accounting for the possibility that I could be wrong seems to piss you off. Covering multiple bases is apparently a sucmtell for you. You really are trying to sabotage scumhunting, aren't you?

6. The rest of this is mainly just nonsensical rambling because I change my mind as new things happen. And apparently because I have changed my mind about some players, but not about Tiershift. Sorry if he keeps doing things make him look like scum while others, like Bulba, have turned around. That is NOT contradiction. People do different things, and how they do it is important, too.

7. Oh, and the only "ass kissing" I did towards you was being friendly because of our previous games. None of it had anything to do with ideas about your alignment in this game.

I don't know why you're so mad, Whiskers, but your whole rant starts with "Pasch is so scummy!!" and then makes misreps, outright lies, and points that you literally retract with the next sentence. You clearly haven't got evidence to back up your positions. But even if you did, it's not a compelling case. You don't point out how my vote on Zek is at all scum motivated rather than simply being wrong, you don't point out how anyone else's vote on him was more legit, you don't give any scum motivation for my wanting to lynch Tiershift, and you don't give any scum motivation for my wanting to lynch you or my not pushing it when no one else wanted to go with it. You're clearly angry about things, but despite the fact that your whole analysis starts with a predetermined conclusion, none of your points actually support that conclusion. I get that you're mad. I'm pushing you and it's clearly pissing you off. You incorrectly think that Tiershift isn't scum and that's pissing you off, too. But ranting about it isn't going to help.

[Maxous]

still voting whiskers unless somebody has a plausible idea where the second kill on night 1 came from.
and why we have bulletproof masons.

[cxinlee]

Can you link me to a similar towngame? Do you have a scumgame you can link to?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32386 this works

I have never played as scum before.

[Whiskers]

3. Lynching people who are acting like scum is not a policy lynch. You know this. Stop lying.

I stopped reading a little bit after here-- somewhere in the middle of point 4. Don't worry, I'll go back, but,

"TierShift is consistently accomplishing nothing. He claims that this is his town game, but if your town game is indistinguishable from a really bad scum play, then you need a lot of practice. Tier has far more often been a source of confusion than of clarity, and has been jumping on wagons that he even admits he didn't have much faith in. Playing like scum doesn't absolve you just because you hang a lampshade on it."

^Acting like scum?

Then,

Nice tantrum, Whiskers. There's very little truth in it, but it's got all kinds of anger. It's cute, though. You just keep attributing motivations to me that I don't really have. My actions aren't deceptive or malicious, but if you proclaim that I'm only doing them because I'm deceptive and malicious, it must make sense!

You tell me I give you motivations you don't have, that you're not malicious, etc-- and then go and do the same to TS. Yes?

2. Tiershift has been trying to get me to track people and reveal them "in order to clear myself" all day. He's said nothing about finding scum by tracking them, just finding powers. The only people who can find out that someone has powers and not care what their alignment is are scum. Tier's intent is not to find scum, it's for me to reveal that people have powers.

Btw, iirc, he wasn't "saying nothing about finding scum by tracking them." In fact, he was saying that, "if you track somebody, they must be scum." And you might be right, then, that that means he "doesn't care what their alignment is" and "he must be scum," but those things are only true if he is scum, not if he's town.

Finally,

1. You're difficult because you're holding out information. You're refusing to help us win and then getting angry when we want to punish you for it. You're a liability.

Does having revealed the information to you in the first place count as "holding out information?"
I'm not fullclaiming because it would be detrimental to me, and I have an interest in myself winning this game. It would also be beneficial to

you

, for me to keep much of my role info to myself-- more, in fact, than I've already told you. Your poking has actually hurt town, jsyk.
I'm not "refusing to help you win," so fuck you, right up the ass. You complain about me "Attributing motivations that you don't have," You're attributing actions that you've made up. You have trouble with being called deceptive and malicious? You can't even make a

case

for me being deceptive and malicious, going out of my way to provide you with extra info.

Doesn't stop you though, does it?

Who is scum, Pasche? Ok, right, Tiershift, nevermind him. Who

else

is scum? Who is scum

with

Tiershift?

And, I'm not being a douche here, either: if you're that certain that TS is scum, why haven't you been treating him as flipped, looking for his scumbuddies?

[Whiskers]

But even if you did, it's not a compelling case.

As I already fucking said.


...nevermind, I'm not

actually

going to read the rest of your post. It's more condescending bullshit and I am simply, plainly, not in the mood for it.

[Bulbazak]

bulba, the thing is until he hardclaims, and his role is proven, we don't know if he's an anti-town third-party or not. Heck, he could even be mafia

So what is your stance on him? Should we vote him, not vote him, give him our pokémon and hope he goes away? Because you don't seem to be taking much of a stance here, and you're not voting either, so I'm just curious.

[Maxous]

And, I'm not being a douche here, either: if you're that certain that TS is scum, why haven't you been treating him as flipped, looking for his scumbuddies?

why hasn't cheery?

[Dry-fit]

So here's a theory I've been having.

Scum may only have odd-night kills. SK and groupscum. The poisoner is there to provide even night kills so we take longer to catch on to things. Thoughts?

Yes Pasch I think Max is more likely to be scum. I've pretty much given up on convincing anyone of that though.

[Cheery Dog]

And, I'm not being a douche here, either: if you're that certain that TS is scum, why haven't you been treating him as flipped, looking for his scumbuddies?

why hasn't cheery?

because I don't believe TS is scum?

I believe I've also already stated that it's you out of you, aj & bulba as pasch's partners due to PoE.

[Espeonage]

Vote Count

Bulbazak:

TierShift

Maxous:

Dry-fit

Tiershift:

Bulbazak, Aj The Epic, Paschendale (L-3)

Paschendale:

Cheery Dog, Kenobi, Whiskers (L-3)

Whiskers:

Maxous

Not Voting: cxinlee

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[Maxous]

unvote, vote; Tiershift

we have about 3 days ftr.

[TierShift]

Max, what happened to you defending me?