Newbie 1495 (DAY 4) - The One where Everyone got Murdered

[Jcozmo]

First, as far as me missing something, I don't think that I did. I don't think any of that specifies a target for Wolfy particularly when it's not taken out of context and looking at his whole ISO. I also think Wolfy being Shinobi's "biggest defender" its a huge stretch based on that single line, which basically just repeats what I had stated a few posts earlier. No where that I can see does he say he's sure Shinobi is town. He doesnt even come close to saying that. What he's saying is actually close to the opposite by saying that Enomis is a scum driven wagon, and his strongest town reads arent on it.

He also stated and you agree that he thought a potential Mora and Mala scum team was likely, which I feel is pretty close to the

least

likely scum team. If they are, then more power to them for an Oscar worth D1 performance. Hats off. I'm not buying that though.

I do find myself agreeing that its a scum driven wagon on Enomis though.

1. Mala
2. Xayzeck
3. Shinobi
4. Mora

5. BBT

2 of these five ARE scum, and 4 of the five were on the Enomis wagon. We are at an unbelievable disadvantage right now due to the cop claim D1. Sorry to keep piling on, MM, its just the truth.

I find myself leaning towards Mala as town, which leads me down a path that leans me toward Shinobi being town.

The case against Mora is almost too easy at this point. The points people are bringing up are valid, but I'm still getting a weird feeling that lynch is a trap.

By process of elimination that leaves you BBT, and Xayzeck as maybe #1a scum team possibilty, with a completely legit possibility that its one of that team plus Mora as #1b and #1c.

Now I'm just going to go back, re-read and question why I lean town on Shinobi if Mala is town. Perhaps that isnt valid.

It's not taken out of context. They are his last few posts of who he is pointing his finger at, I'm not sure why you're dismissing that. His whole ISO doesn't matter, it's what happened towards the end of D1 when the activity starting picking up that really matters.

How is it a huge stretch? He stated he didn't think Shinobi was scum based on his defence of Mala. Did anybody else state this? Or was everybody else in doubt of Shinobi's actions? I think you will find it's the latter.

Mala's flip had the potential to provide a lot of information that would have cleared some people and put suspicion on others. We were deprived of that due to all the last minute panic voting.

The last part is interesting. So I go from 'towniest person' to 'part of your number one scum team' in not a very long time at all.

Can you elaborate on your Mala being town read please. I think you will find this more appropriate than looking into Shinobi's actions.

Why is the case on Mora too easy? And if it is, why does this mean he isn't scum? People are bringing up valid points, and then you just dismiss them in your next phrase.

Case on Mora is too easy...but he could be part of a 'b' or 'c' scum team. Do you find that contradictory?

The ONLY definitive statement he makes is that its a scum driven wagon (which I agree with) and that he sees Mala and Mora a good possibility (which I strongly disagree with). You are making it out like what was saying made him a target for the NK, which I don't think those quotes make a strong case for.

How is it a huge stretch? Jesus man, he says ONE LINE "this seems town to me" and that means he "certain" Shinobi is town? Really? Thats not a stretch? He later calls out his town reads and guess who is NOT on the list? Shinobi.

My statements about Mora arent contradictory in the slightest, maybe you ought to read the post again - I say the points are valid, but it seems like a trap (just a feeling) then I dont even put his possibility of being even #2, its just 1b and 1c - why? because I didnt "dismiss" the points toward him at all.

Mala being town is just always been my read, and that got stronger as she was closest to lynch. I just never bought into that wagon. I think questioning my "read" on Shinobi is still the best option I have.

On you, its like I said, its more a process of elimination more than anything incriminating. We are all shooting in the dark here, essentially. I wouldnt say I scumread you to this point. I just have certain reasons why I think other people had town tells stronger than your participation. And I only have 5 to chose from in the first place.

[Jcozmo]

START OF DAY 2

Wolfy was murdered, he was a

Vanilla Townie

Day 2 starts now, deadline on the 13^thApril at 2200 BST ((expired on 2014-05-13 22:00:00))

Is there something wrong with this deadline? Besides it being in the past, we dont seriously get 2 weeks for D2 do we?

[Malakittens]

Ill post after work. Uh I don't see anything wrong with the deadline

[Moratorium]

Newbie 1495 is actually GroundHog Day Mafia, where we have to repeat the month of April forever.

Yes, 2 weeks is the norm.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The ONLY definitive statement he makes is that its a scum driven wagon (which I agree with) and that he sees Mala and Mora a good possibility (which I strongly disagree with). You are making it out like what was saying made him a target for the NK, which I don't think those quotes make a strong case for.

How is it a huge stretch? Jesus man, he says ONE LINE "this seems town to me" and that means he "certain" Shinobi is town? Really? Thats not a stretch? He later calls out his town reads and guess who is NOT on the list? Shinobi.

My statements about Mora arent contradictory in the slightest, maybe you ought to read the post again - I say the points are valid, but it seems like a trap (just a feeling) then I dont even put his possibility of being even #2, its just 1b and 1c - why? because I didnt "dismiss" the points toward him at all.

Mala being town is just always been my read, and that got stronger as she was closest to lynch. I just never bought into that wagon. I think questioning my "read" on Shinobi is still the best option I have.

On you, its like I said, its more a process of elimination more than anything incriminating. We are all shooting in the dark here, essentially. I wouldnt say I scumread you to this point. I just have certain reasons why I think other people had town tells stronger than your participation. And I only have 5 to chose from in the first place.

I concede on Wolfy being Shinobi's only/strongest town-reader. After ISO'ing a few people (didn't bother to get through everyone), both Xayzeck and Mala were town-reading Shinobi, Mora seemed unsure, and Enomis was leaning scum. I myself was doubting his actions as well and was unsure on my read.

1b and 1c is just another way of saying 2 and 3, right?

You can't just state 'Mala being town is just always been my read' after 30 pages of information and at the start of D2. That's not going to cut it. Why is she a town-read?

[Jcozmo]

First, as far as me missing something, I don't think that I did. I don't think any of that specifies a target for Wolfy particularly when it's not taken out of context and looking at his whole ISO. I also think Wolfy being Shinobi's "biggest defender" its a huge stretch based on that single line, which basically just repeats what I had stated a few posts earlier. No where that I can see does he say he's sure Shinobi is town. He doesnt even come close to saying that. What he's saying is actually close to the opposite by saying that Enomis is a scum driven wagon, and his strongest town reads arent on it.

He also stated and you agree that he thought a potential Mora and Mala scum team was likely, which I feel is pretty close to the

least

likely scum team. If they are, then more power to them for an Oscar worth D1 performance. Hats off. I'm not buying that though.

I do find myself agreeing that its a scum driven wagon on Enomis though.

1. Mala
2. Xayzeck
3. Shinobi
4. Mora

5. BBT

2 of these five ARE scum, and 4 of the five were on the Enomis wagon. We are at an unbelievable disadvantage right now due to the cop claim D1. Sorry to keep piling on, MM, its just the truth.

I find myself leaning towards Mala as town, which leads me down a path that leans me toward Shinobi being town.

The case against Mora is almost too easy at this point. The points people are bringing up are valid, but I'm still getting a weird feeling that lynch is a trap.

By process of elimination that leaves you BBT, and Xayzeck as maybe #1a scum team possibilty, with a completely legit possibility that its one of that team plus Mora as #1b and #1c.

Now I'm just going to go back, re-read and question why I lean town on Shinobi if Mala is town. Perhaps that isnt valid.

It's not taken out of context. They are his last few posts of who he is pointing his finger at, I'm not sure why you're dismissing that. His whole ISO doesn't matter, it's what happened towards the end of D1 when the activity starting picking up that really matters.

How is it a huge stretch? He stated he didn't think Shinobi was scum based on his defence of Mala. Did anybody else state this? Or was everybody else in doubt of Shinobi's actions? I think you will find it's the latter.

Mala's flip had the potential to provide a lot of information that would have cleared some people and put suspicion on others. We were deprived of that due to all the last minute panic voting.

The last part is interesting. So I go from 'towniest person' to 'part of your number one scum team' in not a very long time at all.

Can you elaborate on your Mala being town read please. I think you will find this more appropriate than looking into Shinobi's actions.

Why is the case on Mora too easy? And if it is, why does this mean he isn't scum? People are bringing up valid points, and then you just dismiss them in your next phrase.

Case on Mora is too easy...but he could be part of a 'b' or 'c' scum team. Do you find that contradictory?

The ONLY definitive statement he makes is that its a scum driven wagon (which I agree with) and that he sees Mala and Mora as a good possibility (which I strongly disagree with). You are making it out like what Wolfy was saying made him a target for the NK, which I don't think those quotes make a strong case for.

How is it a huge stretch? Jesus man, he says ONE LINE "this seems town to me" and that means he's "certain" Shinobi is town? Really? That's not a stretch? He later calls out his town reads and guess who is NOT on the list? Shinobi.

My statements about Mora aren't contradictory in the slightest, maybe you ought to read the post again - I say the points are valid, but it seems like a trap (just a feeling) then I don't even put his possibility of being part of the scum team at #2, its just 1b and 1c - why? because I didn't "dismiss" the points toward him at all.

Mala being town is just always been my read, and that got stronger as she was closest to lynch. I just never bought into that wagon. I think questioning my "read" on Shinobi is still the best option I have.

On you, its like I said, its more a process of elimination more than anything incriminating. We are all shooting in the dark here, essentially. I wouldn't say I scumread you to this point. I just have certain reasons why I think other people had town tells stronger than your participation. And I only have 5 to chose from in the first place.

Editing by double post. Was typing quickly because I was annoyed at the bad logic (IMO) that BBT was using for a couple things.

[Jcozmo]

The ONLY definitive statement he makes is that its a scum driven wagon (which I agree with) and that he sees Mala and Mora a good possibility (which I strongly disagree with). You are making it out like what was saying made him a target for the NK, which I don't think those quotes make a strong case for.

How is it a huge stretch? Jesus man, he says ONE LINE "this seems town to me" and that means he "certain" Shinobi is town? Really? Thats not a stretch? He later calls out his town reads and guess who is NOT on the list? Shinobi.

My statements about Mora arent contradictory in the slightest, maybe you ought to read the post again - I say the points are valid, but it seems like a trap (just a feeling) then I dont even put his possibility of being even #2, its just 1b and 1c - why? because I didnt "dismiss" the points toward him at all.

Mala being town is just always been my read, and that got stronger as she was closest to lynch. I just never bought into that wagon. I think questioning my "read" on Shinobi is still the best option I have.

On you, its like I said, its more a process of elimination more than anything incriminating. We are all shooting in the dark here, essentially. I wouldnt say I scumread you to this point. I just have certain reasons why I think other people had town tells stronger than your participation. And I only have 5 to chose from in the first place.

I concede on Wolfy being Shinobi's only/strongest town-reader. After ISO'ing a few people (didn't bother to get through everyone), both Xayzeck and Mala were town-reading Shinobi, Mora seemed unsure, and Enomis was leaning scum. I myself was doubting his actions as well and was unsure on my read.

1b and 1c is just another way of saying 2 and 3, right?

You can't just state 'Mala being town is just always been my read' after 30 pages of information and at the start of D2. That's not going to cut it. Why is she a town-read?

No not the same. We have so little to really go on, that I cannot put the scum team possibilities including Mora below the possibility that its Xay and you.

I'll try to go back and grab posts later tonight to more definitively point to why I lean town on Mala, especially since we have until 2017 to make a lynch decision.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

For Day 2, No ones play makes less sense as town than Shinobi's, who was high on my list of scum-possibles well before he went off the deep end. He was "so certain" Eno was scum for basically no valid reasons whatsoever, then after it becomes apparent that isnt the case, he starts lobbing grenades for Day 2 lynch candidates. He can go ahead and attempt to explain in a little more detail how I'm "scumreading like a motherfucker", that should contain some wonderfully thought out reasoning and logic, much like his long-winded reads on Wolfy and Eno.

What I see is he wanted Wolfy lynched because he had a 500-word open and shut case that he IMMEDIATELY abandoned when called out for it, then jumped on and off various wagons of town members until Lynch day.

So I'm inclined to vote Shinobi.

At the same time scums choice to NK Wolfy, not the claimed cop or anyone else, needs to be discussed. IMO a Wolfy lynch points directly at Shinobi, so that seems like a pretty stupid freaking NK if I'm Shinobi.

I find myself leaning towards Mala as town, which leads me down a path that leans me toward Shinobi being town.

Can you explain your sudden change in reads of Shinobi please?

You also didn't answer my question regarding Mora; why do you feel he is an easy case? And if he is an easy case, why does that make him less likely to be scum?

[Jcozmo]

Can you explain your sudden change in reads of Shinobi please?

You also didn't answer my question regarding Mora; why do you feel he is an easy case? And if he is an easy case, why does that make him less likely to be scum?

I dont have a sudden change for how I feel about Shinobi. I feel like play has been scummy, the only thing that's stopping me from voting for him was his defense of Mala which does not seem like a good scum move. If someone is able to explain that, he moves way up on my list.

For Mora, I just feel like he walked into a glass door while scum hunting. I dont think his actual play is scummy but the way D1 ended it just was easy to put him into the light in that way.

And anyways I just went through BBT's ISO and that has me thinking more about my town reads again.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I dont have a sudden change for how I feel about Shinobi. I feel like play has been scummy, the only thing that's stopping me from voting for him was his defense of Mala which does not seem like a good scum move. If someone is able to explain that, he moves way up on my list.

For Mora, I just feel like he walked into a glass door while scum hunting. I dont think his actual play is scummy but the way D1 ended it just was easy to put him into the light in that way.

And anyways I just went through BBT's ISO and that has me thinking more about my town reads again.

Your read changed on Shinobi with very little new information being presented. You commented on his 'scummy play' AFTER the defence of Mala at the start of D2.

For Day 2, No ones play makes less sense as town than Shinobi's, who was high on my list of scum-possibles well before he went off the deep end. He was "so certain" Eno was scum for basically no valid reasons whatsoever, then after it becomes apparent that isnt the case, he starts lobbing grenades for Day 2 lynch candidates. He can go ahead and attempt to explain in a little more detail how I'm "scumreading like a motherfucker", that should contain some wonderfully thought out reasoning and logic, much like his long-winded reads on Wolfy and Eno.

What I see is he wanted Wolfy lynched because he had a 500-word open and shut case that he IMMEDIATELY abandoned when called out for it, then jumped on and off various wagons of town members until Lynch day.

So I'm inclined to vote Shinobi.

At the same time scums choice to NK Wolfy, not the claimed cop or anyone else, needs to be discussed. IMO a Wolfy lynch points directly at Shinobi, so that seems like a pretty stupid freaking NK if I'm Shinobi.

This was your post on Shinobi at the start of D2...so you can't use his defence of Mala as your reason for you change of read from 'high on your scum-possibles' to 'leaning town'. Explain how and why your read has changed please.

You don't think Mora's end of D1 play was scummy? Even though he admitted himself that looking from the outside in his play would look scummy?

I'm being scummy as shit and no one cares to vote for me. Makes no sense.

You're trying to play scummy?

Trying, no. I would, however, categorize the past two pages, with the voteswitch, sudden unvote, and sudden revote as pretty damn scummy, seen from an outside view.

[Moratorium]

For Mora, I just feel like he walked into a glass door while scum hunting. I dont think his actual play is scummy but the way D1 ended it just was easy to put him into the light in that way.

You are the only person who has made statements like this one. There's nothing evident in the thread so far, other than my say so (read: shinobi pedastal'ing me), that actually shows that I've been setup. I'm finding it very odd that you are coming to my defense, considering that I don't even personally feel that I've put up enough of a defense to clear myself in the least (as is evident from the sheer number of people who've expressed doubt in what I've said).

I do wish people would comment on my case on Shinobi, but unfortunately so far, it's looking similar to when I was expressing doubt against Xayzeck in the early game. Essentially ignored.

[Jcozmo]

For Mora, I just feel like he walked into a glass door while scum hunting. I dont think his actual play is scummy but the way D1 ended it just was easy to put him into the light in that way.

You are the only person who has made statements like this one. There's nothing evident in the thread so far, other than my say so (read: shinobi pedastal'ing me), that actually shows that I've been setup. I'm finding it very odd that you are coming to my defense, considering that I don't even personally feel that I've put up enough of a defense to clear myself in the least (as is evident from the sheer number of people who've expressed doubt in what I've said).

I do wish people would comment on my case on Shinobi, but unfortunately so far, it's looking similar to when I was expressing doubt against Xayzeck in the early game. Essentially ignored.

Actually Shinobi started setting this up in twillight, and then its essentially the first thing you said when the thread opened.

[Jcozmo]

I dont have a sudden change for how I feel about Shinobi. I feel like play has been scummy, the only thing that's stopping me from voting for him was his defense of Mala which does not seem like a good scum move. If someone is able to explain that, he moves way up on my list.

For Mora, I just feel like he walked into a glass door while scum hunting. I dont think his actual play is scummy but the way D1 ended it just was easy to put him into the light in that way.

And anyways I just went through BBT's ISO and that has me thinking more about my town reads again.

Your read changed on Shinobi with very little new information being presented. You commented on his 'scummy play' AFTER the defence of Mala at the start of D2.

For Day 2, No ones play makes less sense as town than Shinobi's, who was high on my list of scum-possibles well before he went off the deep end. He was "so certain" Eno was scum for basically no valid reasons whatsoever, then after it becomes apparent that isnt the case, he starts lobbing grenades for Day 2 lynch candidates. He can go ahead and attempt to explain in a little more detail how I'm "scumreading like a motherfucker", that should contain some wonderfully thought out reasoning and logic, much like his long-winded reads on Wolfy and Eno.

What I see is he wanted Wolfy lynched because he had a 500-word open and shut case that he IMMEDIATELY abandoned when called out for it, then jumped on and off various wagons of town members until Lynch day.

So I'm inclined to vote Shinobi.

At the same time scums choice to NK Wolfy, not the claimed cop or anyone else, needs to be discussed. IMO a Wolfy lynch points directly at Shinobi, so that seems like a pretty stupid freaking NK if I'm Shinobi.

This was your post on Shinobi at the start of D2...so you can't use his defence of Mala as your reason for you change of read from 'high on your scum-possibles' to 'leaning town'. Explain how and why your read has changed please.

You don't think Mora's end of D1 play was scummy? Even though he admitted himself that looking from the outside in his play would look scummy?

I'm being scummy as shit and no one cares to vote for me. Makes no sense.

You're trying to play scummy?

Trying, no. I would, however, categorize the past two pages, with the voteswitch, sudden unvote, and sudden revote as pretty damn scummy, seen from an outside view.

I'll get back to this but its circular logic. I think he's scummy, I want to vote for him, but I havent gotten past the Mala defense to do that. I also ready into your ISO instead of his like I intended, maybe I'll feel sure one way or the other after I re-read Mala's near-lynch and the lead up to it.

[Moratorium]

Forgot about twilight. Think I need to re-read the game.

[Jcozmo]

I said before, my leaning town for him was based on leaning town for Mala, not on how I felt about his play.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I said before, my leaning town for him was based on leaning town for Mala, not on how I felt about his play.

And you're still yet to provide the reasons for your town Mala read, and thus your Shinobi town read.

Your read changed, there is no denying that.

2 of these five ARE scum, and 4 of the five were on the Enomis wagon. We are at an unbelievable disadvantage right now due to the cop claim D1. Sorry to keep piling on, MM, its just the truth.

I find myself leaning towards Mala as town, which leads me down a path that leans me toward Shinobi being town.

The case against Mora is almost too easy at this point. The points people are bringing up are valid, but I'm still getting a weird feeling that lynch is a trap.

By process of elimination that leaves you BBT, and Xayzeck as maybe #1a scum team possibilty, with a completely legit possibility that its one of that team plus Mora as #1b and #1c.

Now I'm just going to go back, re-read and question why I lean town on Shinobi if Mala is town. Perhaps that isnt valid.

Here, you pretty much exonerate Shinobi. So again, he went from a scum-read to a leaning town read with virtually no new information presented. In your last sentence, it reads like you're going to re-read to try and

justify

why you think Shinobi

is

town, not

whether or not

he is town. Your mind seems made up.

[Jcozmo]

I said before, my leaning town for him was based on leaning town for Mala, not on how I felt about his play.

And you're still yet to provide the reasons for your town Mala read, and thus your Shinobi town read.

Your read changed, there is no denying that.

2 of these five ARE scum, and 4 of the five were on the Enomis wagon. We are at an unbelievable disadvantage right now due to the cop claim D1. Sorry to keep piling on, MM, its just the truth.

I find myself leaning towards Mala as town, which leads me down a path that leans me toward Shinobi being town.

The case against Mora is almost too easy at this point. The points people are bringing up are valid, but I'm still getting a weird feeling that lynch is a trap.

By process of elimination that leaves you BBT, and Xayzeck as maybe #1a scum team possibilty, with a completely legit possibility that its one of that team plus Mora as #1b and #1c.

Now I'm just going to go back, re-read and question why I lean town on Shinobi if Mala is town. Perhaps that isnt valid.

Here, you pretty much exonerate Shinobi. So again, he went from a scum-read to a leaning town read with virtually no new information presented. In your last sentence, it reads like you're going to re-read to try and

justify

why you think Shinobi

is

town, not

whether or not

he is town. Your mind seems made up.

Your off base conclusions consistently drive me up a freaking wall.

I'm not exonerating Shinobi, I'm stating where I am currently, and then I said I need to go re-read, and question those reads (Mala and Shinobi). That's literally what I said. Are you confused by, or not know, what the words re-read or question mean in that context? It means I need to re read and then challenge that current view I just posted there. My Mind is far from made up if I'm saying I'm going to go read and re-evaluate and I really dont know how you keep misinterpreting what I'm saying, because its not vague.

Did I say my mind was made up? No. Did I vote? No? Well then I would say my mind is pretty far from made up.

[Xayzeck]

Is your read on me based primarily on what others have said?

Yeah, more or less. Driving tons of people to L-1 is good, but it feels like you were just going around looking for claims almost, and hiding that under a town agenda. This, and everything else everyone has said, doesn't sit well with me.

So wait, let me get this straight - You now feel that I am the scummiest person left alive at this point?.

No? I don't know how you got to this conclusion, just that you're not exactly townier than Mora at the moment.

I also don't understand why you think the Mora lynch is a trap? What do you mean exactly by it's a trap?

And Mala, if you don't pick up the play we're going to have a big problem, especially if you make it to LyLo

[Mafia Moderator]

So we might have a doc. I wasn't killed. Investigated someone (morarandom) got no result. Probably got roleblocked, shouldn't have revealed D1.

You're damn right you shouldn't have claimed. If you got blocked, there is a doc. You're pretty much useless as cop now (unless we find roleblocker), so please contribute in other ways. I would like to see more than one post every 3 days please.

I think the best play is to table this discussion until MM reveals his investigation results.

I'm suspicious of this. You probably know I was going to reveal a no result (thus your mafia), and wanted to hold off the discussion.

VTL Moramorandom

Do you not think it is possible he just didn't want the thread being filled up with hypothetical situations that scum may be able to manipulate?

I hope we find roleblocker soon so I can be useful. Yes, and I get you. I don't really have a +scum read on Mora, or a +town read, just a s+scum. Mabye this was from some of his posts, but its just my feeling with no evidence

[Moratorium]

Is your read on me based primarily on what others have said?

Yeah, more or less. Driving tons of people to L-1 is good, but it feels like you were just going around looking for claims almost, and hiding that under a town agenda. This, and everything else everyone has said, doesn't sit well with me.

Then please, again, ask me questions to figure me out yourself, if you just coast on other people's reads you are contributing as much as MafiaModerator.

I hope we find roleblocker soon so I can be useful.

You can be useful right now? Start scumhunting.

I don't really have a +scum read on Mora, or a +town read, just a s+scum.

While I appreciate that you stopped doing those crazy wall-o-reads with the 27 different categories, I have no idea what this means. Could you, instead of just stating your "score" for me, ask me questions to help you identify whether I am town or scum?

Moving on.

I'm still waiting on answers from Shinobi. He appears to have gone quiet after hand-waving me. Would like to see the big giant post he has in response to my six bullet points.

I find the BBT-Jcozmo argument doesn't feel very helpful, BBT is blatantly ignoring statements to make his case (like "Perhaps that isn't valid."), and Jcozmo is really overreacting to a generally tame attack.

Xayzeck is coasting, and too good for casework. Malakittens is too busy to play. MM isn't contributing. Shinobi was going to "handle voting" when he came back from the gym 2 days ago. BBT-Jcozmo are having a scumversation.

So there you go. Not a great introductory game to the MafiaScum site. Or perhaps it is, the "Here's what you don't do if you want town to win" game.

I'm going to go look at who was on these wagons.

[Moratorium]

Full VCA for Day 1

So I see that Jcozmo, you are the only player (discounting the claimed cop) who didn't "pick a side" on Day 1 between Malakittens and Enomis, including the two dead people. Your voting pattern has essentially been:

- an RVS vote on Wolfy that you kept on for 418 posts without discussing him, even when he got put to L-2.
- the "low-hanging fruit" vote on Xayzeck, which was part of the whole "you say words that don't mean things" post #463

I've been characterized as sidelining, but that there is true sidelining. We were risking a no-lynch. You were making comments like "I wish somebody would put you at L-1" on Enomis's wagon. Why didn't you vote?

And with Shinobi, I'm still most suspicious of his crazy flail to figure out which wagon to join between wolfy, malakittens and enomis, only to demand we ignore it. Among several other bullet points. And I would love to have a conversation with you about them, Shinobi. I hope you didn't throw your back out at the gym.

Actually after rethinking about it, xayzeck may not be scum afterall.
And if i accept that mala is town, since i think she will just survive to endgame this game and unlikely to be lynched.

I am saying,
Mora X Shinobi
Mora X Jcoszmo
Shinobi X Jcozmo.

I'm onboard with this post.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@Mala

- Is this your improved play? I know you have a bad D1 and all so I can't wait to see the improvement from you.

@Jcozmo

- How long do you need to provide a town case for Mala and Shinobi?

@Mora

- Shinobi and Jcozmo? Really?

I have re-read the game, I'm willing to drop my Mala/Mora theory, it was a weak case based on weak reasoning anyway. Something changed with the last read through and the whole argument between the two of you felt more genuine this time round. If it had been kept up (the two of you not speaking to each other), I may have been more suspicious of it. However, I am convinced that one of you are scum. Mora has his really towny moments (such as his VCA analysis and his desperation for a lynch yesterday (though this could easily be scum as well, I got a town feel from it).

Mala however, is still providing nothing. She knew Enomis was town, because she is scum. I'm not willing to drop this read and she hasn't done anything to make me doubt it. Enomis was an easy target to go for and it really confused town, causing a quite obvious (to me anyway) mislynch. Her argument against Enomis was extremely weak and somehow it took off and we ended up with an Enomis wagon. I felt sure that both scum were on the Enomis wagon, I'm not so sure anymore.

I await your cases on Mala and Shinobi, Jcozmo.

[Moratorium]

@Mora - Shinobi and Jcozmo? Really?

Why are you surprised?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why are you surprised?

Does it not seem a strange combination to you? What makes you link the two of them together?

If Mala had been lynched and flipped town, we would already know if Shinobi is town or not. Vice versa, if she had been lynched and flipped scum, Shinobi would have already been lynched by now. I feel that Shinobi is a pretty easy D2 lynch because of his late D1 actions. I don't agree with his actions, and some of them made him look pretty scummy, but I just don't feel like Shinobi is scummier than other players we currently have in the game.

[Moratorium]

What makes you link the two of them together?

Huh? Why does this matter?

If Mala had been lynched and flipped town, we would already know if Shinobi is town or not. Vice versa, if she had been lynched and flipped scum, Shinobi would have already been lynched by now.

Huh? How do you figure?