Open 556: Fire and Ice (Over)

[BoroPhil]

Question for Tricks: does Boro's play this game remind you of the same play it reminds me? It's almost like history repeating itself in a way.

To everyone else: Why is building a case based on bad reasoning a scumtell? Are you scumhunting or are you just after players whose play you disagree with? Are you just hoping that those players just happen to be scum?

You don't always catch scum for the right reasons.

and if you'll recall I was spot on then.

[Not_Mafia]

It means I'm asking you why it's bad to vote for someone for "rubbish" reasons during RVS.

If, for example, I vote you now and my provided reasoning is that football/soccer avatars are only used by scum, does that mean I'm scum?

Trivialising what they were doing as "oh lol just another RVS post", when they were in fact trying to build a case off it

Question for Tricks: does Boro's play this game remind you of the same play it reminds me? It's almost like history repeating itself in a way.

To everyone else: Why is building a case based on bad reasoning a scumtell? Are you scumhunting or are you just after players whose play you disagree with? Are you just hoping that those players just happen to be scum?

You don't always catch scum for the right reasons.

And now acknowledging they were in fact building a case.

Also Moonlight, please do not ask blatantly leading questions to push the narrative that you want

[4 Heads of Insanity]

so hang on Moonlight, you are saying that you think I'm scum because of a football avatar?

Did he say he thought you were scum?

well he does appear to be voting for me?

He's voting you because you're trying to make someone look scummy for something that isn't scummy at all.

He meant I want quotes of them "trying to build a case off of it", please, not whatever THAT is.

[4 Heads of Insanity]

EBWOP: Last part was to NM

[Moonlight]

And now acknowledging they were in fact building a case.

Also Moonlight, please do not ask blatantly leading questions to push the narrative that you want

I'm more interested in why you want me to stop. Why does my issue with Boro concern you? Are you threatened by it?

[BoroPhil]

so hang on Moonlight, you are saying that you think I'm scum because of a football avatar?

Did he say he thought you were scum?

well he does appear to be voting for me?

He's voting you because you're trying to make someone look scummy for something that isn't scummy at all.

He meant I want quotes of them "trying to build a case off of it", please, not whatever THAT is.

are you sure about that? his vote seems to be linked to the question about football avatars and making a scum case on

him

you sound very angry. are you sure you are reading properly?

[Not_Mafia]

But seriously, I don't like how NM asked "fire or ice", scum is scum. I

could

see him doing it on purpose to get a discussion going and I assume that votes won't count yet, sooo... yeah.

Like in games with an SK where a big scumtell is worrying mostly about the SK?

You also just heard it from (one of the) horses' mouth

[BoroPhil]

I can't possibly imagine a world where:

a) Moonlight could be obvscum 2 games running

and

b) Moonlight and Tricky are a scum team blatantly defending each other

BUT YOU NEVER KNOW

actually Moon, I don't think you are scum. but I do think you are far too giddy about Tricky's attempts to be pally with you.

[Not_Mafia]

And now acknowledging they were in fact building a case.

Also Moonlight, please do not ask blatantly leading questions to push the narrative that you want

I'm more interested in why you want me to stop. Why does my issue with Boro concern you? Are you threatened by it?

Why did you misattribute this quote? And no, why would I be threatened? Don't handwave my criticism by saying "Are you threatened by it?", respond to it. Your question was blatantly leading and coaching, you weren't looking for Trickster's objective opinion you were just getting him to parrot you.

[Moonlight]

You

really

don't know me, do you? I keep reexamining my reads. They're never solid. Tricks is no exception, there

will

be moments when I'll ask myself if he's scum. You are treating me as if I'm going to townread him for the duration of the game.

I perceive that as a threat to you *points at NM and Boro*.

PEdit: Not sure how I misattributed that, it was by NM and I wanted to reply to him, not sure what happened there.

[Moonlight]

And no, I want Tricks' honest opinion and he knows I do.

This is me thinking I've hit gold out of complete coincidence. I want to know if he reads the situation the same way, because for now I believe he's on my team.

[Not_Mafia]

When you phrase your question that way, you're planting an idea in his head before he has an opportunity to actually formulate his answer in his head. It's leading him to a desired response. Whether this was intentional, is what I'm trying to establish.

[Moonlight]

If I hadn't phrased my question that way, he might not have known what I'm yammering about. I'm refering to a very specific play in a very specific game.

I could have just said "Does this remind of you what it reminds of me", but I like to be more direct than that.

And because I like to be direct, I find it interesting how you and Boro are in tune and yet you haven't exchanged a word with each other and aren't trying to establish a read on each other.

[Moonlight]

EBWOP: remove the two "of"s in that question. >_>

[Not_Mafia]

I haven't found anything that he's said so far objectionable, if you want my read on him, I've agreed with his posting so far and find it genuine, so I lean slight town, however, multi-faction setup and all that.

[Moonlight]

And what about everyone else? What are your reads on every other player? It's not just me, Tricks and Boro playing, and yet I see something of an obsession with Tricks going on.

[Not_Mafia]

I have early slight town leanings on Yuriko and Pasch/Ascended, everyone else is pretty much null, including tman, I found his "lol RVS wagon" thing to be more lazy than scummy.

[Moonlight]

Jasmine's entire ISO is 2 posts, 29 and 117. How are you getting a read at all on her, why is the fear of wagons a tell?

And explain why you have an issue with me defending Tricks, but not with Boro defending you by attacking Tricks' case on you.

[Tr1ckster]

Question for Tricks: does Boro's play this game remind you of the same play it reminds me? It's almost like history repeating itself in a way.

I believe it does. We are thinking of the same player, are we not?

I just want to say I think it's very interesting his play changed from last game to this...

Or did it really change? I don't know.

I certainly hope this one doesn't end in him getting reported, though. Maybe we should make him read the game? You know, the whole thing about knowing history so you don't repeat it?

I think NM is.. Interesting. Very interesting. For defending him so blatantly.

[Tr1ckster]

I have early slight town leanings on Yuriko and Pasch/Ascended, everyone else is pretty much null, including tman, I found his "lol RVS wagon" thing to be more lazy than scummy.

Hold up.

Your town to scum read ration is scaring me.

And how are you reading one of the players who has posted barely anything at all as town when there are players who have contributed a good bit more and you have them as null? O_o

[Not_Mafia]

@Moonlight I liked Yuriko's entry. And can you quote where you see me having an issue with you defending Trickster, I'm not completely sure what you mean there.

[Moonlight]

Question for Tricks: does Boro's play this game remind you of the same play it reminds me? It's almost like history repeating itself in a way.

I believe it does. We are thinking of the same player, are we not?

I just want to say I think it's very interesting his play changed from last game to this...

Or did it really change? I don't know.

I certainly hope this one doesn't end in him getting reported, though. Maybe we should make him read the game? You know, the whole thing about knowing history so you don't repeat it?

I think NM is.. Interesting. Very interesting. For defending him so blatantly.

Yup, we are.

As for whether it changed, I think so. In the previous game he got aggressive with legit reasoning. Here he is making a mountain out of a molehill, the irony being that he seems to believe that about you while considering it a scumtell.

I believe Boro is smarter than actually believing that a vote can only mean a desire to lynch someone, and I'm toying with the idea that he saw you as a threat or mislynch fodder.

@Moonlight I liked Yuriko's entry. And can you quote where you see me having an issue with you defending Trickster, I'm not completely sure what you mean there.

You never said you did, but that's the vibe I've been getting since 194. I could be wrong and I'm not afraid to take that chance.

[Not_Mafia]

I think I get what you're saying, you and Trickster are very parallel and I'm attacking you both, where as I haven't said anything about Boro and I being so parallel. And well, I agree with Boro but I don't agree with you and Trickster, not much else to it really.

[Tr1ckster]

Yup, we are.

As for whether it changed, I think so. In the previous game he got aggressive with legit reasoning. Here he is making a mountain out of a molehill, the irony being that he seems to believe that about you while considering it a scumtell.

I believe Boro is smarter than actually believing that a vote can only mean a desire to lynch someone, and I'm toying with the idea that he saw you as a threat or mislynch fodder.

I don't know, but I don't see how it can be town motivated. Assuming he's scum, how do you read NM?

@NM

Disagreement =/= scumtell

[Baezu]

And Trickster that doesn't change the fact that you misrepped his case

Exactly! Finally, someone is seeing the light.

Also four heads is acting scummy as fuck and veiling it as a 4 person hydra