Open 556: Fire and Ice (Over)

[Tr1ckster]

Sure, let's fucking lynch anyone we don't like instead of lynching who we believe is more likely to flip scum.

First Boro sees "scumminess" in things he doesn't like, now Zeph. I'm starting to doubt my read on Boro as a result, because I didn't want to think of the possibility that a Townie would want to lynch someone just out of dislike, but I guess I have to consider it unless both Boro and Zeph are scum.

What do I even do in this situation... I'm totally against policy lynches but this is starting to get insane.

I'll sleep on it, but not before begging any Townie that reads this to carefully reconsider what separates Town and scum. Forget tells, forget what you think you know, break the game down to its very core and understand. I don't give a shit if you read this as me using AtE to earn towncred and whatnot, that's fine. Just don't throw the game, please.

Agreed.

Lynching someone because you don't like them is anti-town. It goes against your WINCON. And not only that, it makes Mafia a popularity contest.

I can't even rant about this. There aren't words. Don't vote for someone because you don't like them. Period.

[4 Heads of Insanity]

"I don't like hydras so instead of doing anything useful in this game or scumhunting or

anything

, I'm just going to vote the hydra because I'm new around here."

Like seriously, all a hydra means is that: I now have four chances to fuck up, four different personalities to slip up and for you to read, and four different opinions that you can pull for a much easier way to read me as scum or town. If anything, you should

love

hydras because of it.

Tempted to policy lynch this guy because he's anti-town, and working against my wincon.

[Tr1ckster]

No policy lynches.

If worst comes to worst we'll see if we can get a modkill on players who lynch people they dislike.

Still. No policy lynches. Then you become just like him.

[4 Heads of Insanity]

No policy lynches.

If worst comes to worst we'll see if we can get a modkill on players who lynch people they dislike.

Still. No policy lynches. Then you become just like him.

So wrong.

Policy lynch = killing someone who is acting not necessarily scummy, but still

anti-town

. Someone who is anti-town is playing against town's wincon, and is trying to lynch townies just because "they don't like them". They can't be mod-killed, since it isn't against the rules.

I think a policy lynch is very viable on townies who insist on lynching townies. It doesn't make me "just like him" at all. It teaches him that if he continues to do such, he will be policy lynched in any game he tries that bullshit.

[Zephyrus]

VOTE: 4 Heads of Insanity

I rather see the hydra lynch on d1, not because they're scummy, because I don't want to deal with hydras. Period.

So you'd rather lynch hydra over scum?

That's called being a

horrible fucking player who needs to replace out if you can't handle how the game works.

Go fuck yourself too, buddy.

[Tr1ckster]

So wrong.

Policy lynch = killing someone who is acting not necessarily scummy, but still anti-town. Someone who is anti-town is playing against town's wincon, and is trying to lynch townies just because "they don't like them". They can't be mod-killed, since it isn't against the rules.

I think a policy lynch is very viable on townies who insist on lynching townies. It doesn't make me "just like him" at all. It teaches him that if he continues to do such, he will be policy lynched in any game he tries that bullshit.

You can't get a modkill for playing against your WINCON like that? That's interesting. Why can players get modkilled for claiming scum and not get modkilled for lynching against their WINCON and admit to doing so? That doesn't make sense to me.

That said, he won't get very far with his vote against you. I say we worry about lynching scum for now, but if he actually gains momentum on you and you're obvtown we'll do something about it.

I really don't want to have to deal with this, though. This is completely ridiculous on so many levels.

@Zeph. Unvote the heads now or give me a good reason to put your vote there - and not because you don't like Hydras or something about their play.

I'm going to bed now, and when I wake up I want your vote to be somewhere else or I want to see a legitimate argument on them.

[4 Heads of Insanity]

Oh, the joys of head dissonance. I'm finally starting to get some reads:
Not_Mafia is town.
Tr1ckster is town.
Moonlight is town.
Yuriko is town.
Who disagrees with several of those, but Who doesn't have reads yet so he can't argue.

I don't think Zeph's suggested policy lynch makes him scum. I mean, said policy lynch would help scum, but I can't see any scum rationally suggesting it, therefore the suggestion could just as easily have come from a person of any alignment.

But look at what else he's doing.

What?

Exactly.

That doesn't make him scum.

In this case it does.

Why?

Just accept it.

VOTE: Zephyrus

[Tr1ckster]

And Heads, get your vote off Zephyr or give me good reasons he's scum.

[Zephyrus]

Oh, the joys of head dissonance. I'm finally starting to get some reads:
Not_Mafia is town.
Tr1ckster is town.
Moonlight is town.
Yuriko is town.
Who disagrees with several of those, but Who doesn't have reads yet so he can't argue.

I don't think Zeph's suggested policy lynch makes him scum. I mean, said policy lynch would help scum, but I can't see any scum rationally suggesting it, therefore the suggestion could just as easily have come from a person of any alignment.

But look at what else he's doing.

What?

Exactly.

That doesn't make him scum.

In this case it does.

Why?

Just accept it.

VOTE: Zephyrus

So you basically did the same thing I did, you voted me because I voted you. The irony in your statement from one of your heads eariler is almost laughable. Since I respect Trick's playstyle to some extent. UNVOTE: 4 Heads of Insanity

[4 Heads of Insanity]

And Heads, get your vote off Zephyr or give me good reasons he's scum.

Read his posts. He's doing nothing.

[Tr1ckster]

Thanks, Zeph.

@Heads

I read them. Are you on a lynch the people with no content then?

Because there are several far scummier people out there than Zeph.

[4 Heads of Insanity]

Thanks, Zeph.

@Heads

I read them. Are you on a lynch the people with no content then?

Because there are several far scummier people out there than Zeph.

It's the way in which he's doing nothing. My gut is telling me "SCUM SCUM SCUM SCUM SCUM" and I'm listening to it.

[Tr1ckster]

It's the way in which he's doing nothing. My gut is telling me "SCUM SCUM SCUM SCUM SCUM" and I'm listening to it.

And it's not doing that for you on Boro or tman? What about NM?

And what do your other heads think about this?

Finally - your gut always tells you the player voting for you is scum. It's a thing that happens.

[4 Heads of Insanity]

It's the way in which he's doing nothing. My gut is telling me "SCUM SCUM SCUM SCUM SCUM" and I'm listening to it.

And it's not doing that for you on Boro or tman? What about NM?

And what do your other heads think about this?

Finally - your gut always tells you the player voting for you is scum. It's a thing that happens.

It's also doing it for tman, it's unsure about Boro. About Notmafia it's going "TOWN TOWN TOWN TOWN TOWN". Same with Yuriko.

Who sees no reason why Zeph is scum but Who doesn't know anything. Haven't spoken to the other two.

[Tr1ckster]

Then vote for tman.

We'll deal with Zeph in the morning. You're upset because he voted for you for illegitimate reasons, I think you need to unvote him, take a break from the game, discuss with the other for heads, and get back into it.

Trust me. If you do this, people will take your vote more seriously. Like a vote that's been thought through and makes sense. Right now it looks like an OMGUS vote. And I'm not dealing with OMGUS votes.

So if you're town and you're legitimately scumhunting and you want to be taken seriously, unvote him for now and you can vote for him later after you've spoken with the other heads and you can come back with real reasons other than the one that he voted for you. Ok?

[4 Heads of Insanity]

Agreeing with Tr1ckster, our vote could go somewhere better, Who and No one.

VOTE: Tr1ckster

[4 Heads of Insanity]

I don't like the way you're telling us what to do as if you've been playing longer, Tr1ck. I'm not upset for his illegitimate vote, and I don't think No one is either. He's just voting people he doesn't like instead of scum, and hiding in the background and lurking like a scummy bastard. Step off.

Vi, voting him because he's doing something you like is ironic. Let's VOTE: Zeph instead.

Fine...

[BoroPhil]

Sure, let's fucking lynch anyone we don't like instead of lynching who we believe is more likely to flip scum.

First Boro sees "scumminess" in things he doesn't like, now Zeph. I'm starting to doubt my read on Boro as a result, because I didn't want to think of the possibility that a Townie would want to lynch someone just out of dislike, but I guess I have to consider it unless both Boro and Zeph are scum.

What do I even do in this situation... I'm totally against policy lynches but this is starting to get insane.

I'll sleep on it, but not before begging any Townie that reads this to carefully reconsider what separates Town and scum. Forget tells, forget what you think you know, break the game down to its very core and understand. I don't give a shit if you read this as me using AtE to earn towncred and whatnot, that's fine. Just don't throw the game, please.

Are you saying I'm voting for Tricky because I don't like him, rather than because I think he is scummy?

[BoroPhil]

-Tman's not liking the Not_Mafia wagon but keeping his vote there is really annoying, and I do not like his most recent post, specifically his reasoning for keeping his vote on N_M. If you do not think someone is suspicious, then there is no need to keep your vote on them. There's no rule saying you have to have a vote on someone at all times. You simply could've unvoted and left it at that.

So with that, I'll

VOTE: Tman2nd

Is there a rule saying I have to unvote?

Haha, no there is not, but the fact that you

out right said

that you don't like the wagon, but

still

kept your vote on it is hella scummy.

you are misrepping. my reason didn't change.

my reason is: you were focussing on something rubbish as a reason to go after someone.

Moonlight asked why I was focussing on you and not him.

The next post explained it.

my reason remains: you were focussing on something rubbish as a reason to go after someone.

And that's bad during RVS because...?

sorry, was that an apology for accusing me of changing my reason?

what does your reply even mean here?

...

it's a question.

his reply is a question.

Boro, can you please explain why using "something rubbish" is a scumtell? Walk me through what's going through your head when you encounter something like that.

If, for example, I vote you now and my provided reasoning is that football/soccer avatars are only used by scum, does that mean I'm scum?

well yeah?

Are you fucking serious?

so hang on Moonlight, you are saying that you think I'm scum because of a football avatar?

Did he say he thought you were scum?

well he does appear to be voting for me?

Votes have more uses than just to lynch.

so, if he vote for me for having a football avatar, you don't think that's a bit off?

these uses would be?

[Tr1ckster]

*sigh*

@Heads

There are people doing less than Zeph.

And he has made a few comments. url=http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5866409]This one[/url] is actually relatively useful.

There are other people who have done a good bit less than Zeph.

Now give me another reason to vote for him, or lose the OMGUS attitude. It doesn't help town.

[Moonlight]

Are you saying I'm voting for Tricky because I don't like him, rather than because I think he is scummy?

I am saying that when you encounter a play you don't like or don't understand, you make no effort to try to look at it from a Town perspective, you simply toss it in a scum pile.

This is dangerous in my opinion, because you're unlikely to work with anyone you disagree with, and I need players that disagree with me.

Basically, I don't find you necessarily scummy, I just find your approach very anti-Town and I lack a proper scum read, so I'm waiting to form one on you.

You're asking how votes can be used in other ways. Haven't you ever thought of voting someone just to get a read on his reaction?

[Moonlight]

@Tricks:

Do you have a townread on Zeph? I don't understand why you're not letting him get into the spotlight more.

[Moonlight]

@MOD:

We haven't had a single votecount yet. Excuse me for being annoyed, but I'd have appreciated if you let us know if you're V/LA on weekends or something.

[BoroPhil]

Are you saying I'm voting for Tricky because I don't like him, rather than because I think he is scummy?

I am saying that when you encounter a play you don't like or don't understand, you make no effort to try to look at it from a Town perspective, you simply toss it in a scum pile.

This is dangerous in my opinion, because you're unlikely to work with anyone you disagree with, and I need players that disagree with me.

Basically, I don't find you necessarily scummy, I just find your approach very anti-Town and I lack a proper scum read, so I'm waiting to form one on you.

You're asking how votes can be used in other ways. Haven't you ever thought of voting someone just to get a read on his reaction?

so you don't find me scummy, but you are voting for me? how is that IN ANY WAY pro-town?

[BoroPhil]

Are you saying I'm voting for Tricky because I don't like him, rather than because I think he is scummy?

I am saying that when you encounter a play you don't like or don't understand, you make no effort to try to look at it from a Town perspective, you simply toss it in a scum pile.

This is dangerous in my opinion, because you're unlikely to work with anyone you disagree with, and I need players that disagree with me.

Basically, I don't find you necessarily scummy, I just find your approach very anti-Town and I lack a proper scum read, so I'm waiting to form one on you.

You're asking how votes can be used in other ways. Haven't you ever thought of voting someone just to get a read on his reaction?

you'll find I'm pretty straight up. If I vote for someone, it's because they are scummy. I don't mess around and play games.

you are confusing (deliberately or otherwise) 'not liking' with 'finding scummy'

I'm voting for Tricky because he is scummy, not because I don't like him.

If I was voting for the person I least liked, it would be that obnoxious multi-headed thing.