Newbie 1495 (DAY 4) - The One where Everyone got Murdered

[Xayzeck]

hi f16

you're scum aren't you

and so many posts and words, and I'm sleepy right now. will address them really quick

[Xayzeck]

4) Not buying it but okay you've ignored the larger section of that; I don't see you interacting with anyone in the game in a manner where you're trying to further your read on them.

5) I'd lynch you for what you said in this bit alone really, you're trying to dodge around the point which is stating that someone "Wasn't going to get ML'ed" when they die makes no sense if you scum read that person yourself since if you're town and they lived you'd have been pushing on them.

4) My approach to this game is different, sure. I've taken a more passive stance. This is your strongest point though? This is what you're going to push as the bulk of your case one me? Kinda iffy, no?

5) I don't get what you're trying to say then. If Wolfy lived, I would still push for him, problem being he DIDN'T live, so this is a hypothetical situation, and I can't see how this is relevant?

[Xayzeck]

there was a lot less addressed to me than I thought lol

[Moratorium]

There was a vibe in wicked that came off his reads lists there at second glance that made his reads look fake.

Were they fake?

[Xayzeck]

oh F16 hasn't caught up yet

you've got stuff to do then

[Moratorium]

oh F16 hasn't caught up yet

you've got stuff to do then

Respond to his case.

5) Xayzeck - I am reading Xayzeck as scum for several reasons. I partly agree with Moratorium's Post 29 about town Xayzeck thinking L-2 votes in RVS are scummy while doing it here. To add onto that though, what I really found off was that in the game that Mora linked (Micro 307), Xayzeck was very pro-active in the RVS phase and actually scumhunting and trying to move the game forward. See even his first fifteen posts there and there is so much genuine scumhunting, and poking and prodding at various players while providing his thoughts on the game. Xayzeck as town is relaxed, confident, and uses the RVS phase as a springboard to scumhunt. On the other hand, look at his posts in Micro 299 where he comes across as much more uneasy, quickly townreads his accuser and tries to deflect and discredit. On that note, I also don't like his Post 30 where he brushes off Moratorium as town while trying to get suspicion on Selfie. Another thing that struck me was his naked vote on Selfie in Post 20 after Selfie put Mora at L-1 lacked any sort of engagement with Selfie. Compare this with how he engages Aegor in Micro 307 after Aegor's L-2 vote. Here he made no comment at all that Selfie put Mora at L-1, with no poking or prodding that is indicative of Xayzeck as town.

[Xayzeck]

I call people out for L-2 and L-1 a lot, and I learnt that it isn't really alignment indicative, and even now I push it because it helps get things started.

I did it this game to be pushed.

I got pushed way fucking harder than I expected to be. Comparing meta and shit. Like sure, I'd expect to get pushed a little, but not to the extent where Mora dug up my meta and pushed it strictly as a scumtell, I panicked the fuck out. I pushed some of the suspicion to Selfie, but I said why I did the L-2. After that shit I haven't had drive for this game except for small peaks here and there.

I don't like him comparing meta, as accurate as it may sound, I've only played with F-16 once (to my memory at least), and in that game I was just starting out so my play wasn't very developed yet. I don't think he knows me THAT well tobe able to meta me with so much confidence. Rather, it just feels like he's going to take my towngames and generalise them to make it look like I obvtown pretty well, and take my scumgames and generalise them to make it look like I'm quiet and awk as hell. Problem is, 307 I was scumread as well, and I got flashed to L-1. 299 was my first scumgame. None of these 2 hold any significant value or insight to what my town and scumgame are like, unless you actually experience it for youself.

And I've explained the other stuff like the Selfie vote and what not

[JacobSavage]

Votecount 2.3

0

1

2

3

4

Xayzeck[2]: Malakittens, Regfan

Jcozmo [1]:Xayzeck

Malakittens [1]: BlueBloodedToffee,

Not Voting [4]:

F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Shinobi, Moratorium

With 7 alive it takes

4

to lynch[/i]

Deadline is 20^th May 2014 at 2200 BST ((expired on 2014-05-20 22:00:00))

[Moratorium]

Activity has slowed way down, and I admit I haven't been active in this game.

Prod dodgy kind of post, but also to get Jcoz back in here,

VOTE: Jcoz

L-1.

So you feel this should still be your vote based on what? Who do you think is scum in this game? I tried to find your actual opinions of people (like I did in my spoiler-filled read ranking), and it's all hedges like BBT.

Mod: I'm assuming the slot vote transfers?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

6) BlueBloodedToffee

- I dislike BBT's "

nothing personal

" in his Post 59 where it feels like he is trying to downplay the significance of his vote and create less attention from it. I also don't agree with his take on Mora and his interactions with him on page 4. Post 82 in particular feels absurd as I found Mora obviously town from the first few pages as asking Xayzeck and Shinobi what they learned from each other in their past game has an obvious town motivation of generating discussion and helping develop reads based off of meta. Mora had also asked questions of several people (Wolfy, Mala, and Xayzeck) and tried to see where they were coming from and developing reads on them so saying that he hadn't provided anything himself feels incredibly stretchy and misrepresentation of the gamestate. I also dislike the tone of "Other than your chasing of Xayzeck, I don't think you have contributed anything else" in Post 81 as I found Mora's questioning of Xayzeck to be incredibly town, bringing the game out of RVS, and moving it forward. His Post 122 just felt odd and reactive. His Post 135 resonates with me and I like his calling out of Malakittens. I also like Post 171 where he points out that MM's "I'm not mafia" felt town and I thought the same thing and the I'll be killed N1 in Post 183 rang town as well. There are some things that make me lean town but I am not sure on this.

Pretty much your whole read on me boils down to Mora being town, and if you're town, you don't know if he's town or not. That's a weak read.

I couldn't care less what reasons other people come up with to lynch you, as long as you get lynched.

So you couldn't care less what reasons other people come up with to lynch Malakittens, but you care a lot about what reasons other people come up with to lynch Enomis.

Correct - Enomis was a town-read and a flash-wagon, a scum-driven flash-wagon I might add. Mala is scum, as long as she gets lynched I really don't care how it happens.

Do you see the difference?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So, I'm re-reading the game and I come across this gem that I had completely forgotten about.

Today, I feel like Tyrion Lannister. Were I asked about Eno's death, it might sound something like this (show-spoiling) quote...

Spoiler:

"No, gods no. The world is a better place without him, but I had nothing to do with it. I would like to think, if I were arranging a royal assassination, I'd plan it in such a way that I wouldn't be standing there gawking like a fool when the king died."

I've played Day 1 rather poorly. Not because of the vote necessarily, which I convinced myself was correct. More significantly, I didn't properly forsee the consequences of Eno being town, and that will make me a great burden to town for as long as I remain alive.

Spoiler:

1) I've cast the L-1 vote to vote someone out on the basis of their L-1 votes.

2) I called out a False Dilemma ploy repeatedly, only to probably fall victim to one myself.

3) "Sheeping both my scumreads onto a different lynch"... it's worse than that, Enomis was probably 4th on my list.

=====

So here's a few things I need to address:

Spoiler:

- The vote on Enomis: I'll accept the endgame abuse if it turns out that Malakittens is scum, but for me, the combination of the posting of reads, anger towards my posting style when addressing her, and insane insistence to fall back on meta to explain absolutely everything about her play, even when prompted otherwise, twinged me as being a town response. No-lynch was fast approaching, so I decided Enomis's wagon had enough merit. I thought my reason (slot VCA behaviour) was better than the running theory from Shinobi (Inability to case Mala on anything but lying, which ended up ultimately wrong later in twilight), which was why I asked Eno about my earlier scumreasoning on Mala, but time was getting short. It probably didn't help my frame of mind that I was essentially having to decide between two vote targets with relatively equal camps, where players on both sides were saying "I can't believe you're voting for Player-I'm-Not-Voting, Player-I'm-Voting is obvious!", both apparently likely town.

- BBT's statement on why I only asked three people about my earlier Malascum reasoning is simply that for the first two (BBT and Shinobi), I was looking for contrasting responses, to understand which side (a Mala defender and a Mala... offender) made more sense. The third person, Enomis, I asked later to attempt to see if what Shinobi was saying (that Eno's case on Mala was purely about lying and nothing else substantial) made sense. I didn't want to go "Hey everybody, what do you think?", I was looking to solve specific questions I had about specific people.

- Who was perpetuating the Enomis vs Malakittens vote? Because if they are both town, it would be completely worth scum's time and energy to simply prolong that discussion innocently as we pushed towards deadline. (Note: Shinobi and I certainly did.)

- I believe I'm alive because scum will find it easy to put me up as a shield.

For somebody who felt sure they played D1 pretty badly, and was an easy D2 lynch, you have managed to get everyone(?) in the game to read you as town, except for me. I thought this may have been your intent and what may have happened when you posted it. Which is why I asked if you had done this to pre-empt any pressure/questioning, to which you replied with 'Hey, if you have any questions fire away' having already attempted an explanation for everything that could have been asked. I feel like this post has been overlooked by everyone.

I would like everyone's thoughts/opinions about this post and Mora's late D1 play.

For me, the strongest argument regarding a scumenomis is the double L-1's for Enomis's slot, i don't like the playout of his VCA. The shinobi-enomis conversation was just a big distraction for me, possibly as intended, possibly not.

I'd describe his last post as "non contraversial".

I would also like to see people's opinions/thoughts on his reason for voting Enomis.

[Moratorium]

Correct - Enomis was a town-read and a flash-wagon, a scum-driven flash-wagon I might add.

Mala is scum, as long as she gets lynched I really don't care how it happens.

So you have a lot of concern about the incorrectness of the Enomis wagon, how it was built, who was on it, etc...

But you have no concern about whether a vote on Malakittens is correct, and would accept votes of any kind or speed.

So either tunneled or scum?

[Moratorium]

For somebody who felt sure they played D1 pretty badly, and was an easy D2 lynch, you have managed to get everyone(?) in the game to read you as town, except for me. I thought this may have been your intent and what may have happened when you posted it. Which is why I asked if you had done this to pre-empt any pressure/questioning, to which you replied with 'Hey, if you have any questions fire away' having already attempted an explanation for everything that could have been asked. I feel like this post has been overlooked by everyone.

I like the part where I deviously asked for questions.

[Moratorium]

I would like everyone's thoughts/opinions about this post and Mora's late D1 play.

In post 648, Moratorium wrote:
For me, the strongest argument regarding a scumenomis is the double L-1's for Enomis's slot, i don't like the playout of his VCA. The shinobi-enomis conversation was just a big distraction for me, possibly as intended, possibly not.

I'd describe his last post as "non contraversial".


I would also like to see people's opinions/thoughts on his reason for voting Enomis.

Me too, please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Correct - Enomis was a town-read and a flash-wagon, a scum-driven flash-wagon I might add.

Mala is scum, as long as she gets lynched I really don't care how it happens.

So you have a lot of concern about the incorrectness of the Enomis wagon, how it was built, who was on it, etc...

But you have no concern about whether a vote on Malakittens is correct, and would accept votes of any kind or speed.

So either tunneled or scum?

Again, correct. Mala's meta bullshit, followed by a whole load of shit reasoning caused Enomis' lynch, I felt Enomis could have been a very useful player to town. I stated I was pissed at the time of his lynch/start of D2, nothing has changed.

If you don't like kittens, vote Mala.

I don't understand the last sentence either. What do you mean?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

For somebody who felt sure they played D1 pretty badly, and was an easy D2 lynch, you have managed to get everyone(?) in the game to read you as town, except for me. I thought this may have been your intent and what may have happened when you posted it. Which is why I asked if you had done this to pre-empt any pressure/questioning, to which you replied with 'Hey, if you have any questions fire away' having already attempted an explanation for everything that could have been asked. I feel like this post has been overlooked by everyone.

I like the part where I deviously asked for questions.

That you knew full well had already been answered/referred to. Yeah, pretty safe play if you ask me.

Is this the D2 you were expecting?

[Moratorium]

Again, correct. Mala's meta bullshit, followed by a whole load of shit reasoning caused Enomis' lynch, I felt Enomis could have been a very useful player to town. I stated I was pissed at the time of his lynch/start of D2, nothing has changed.

You've made it quite clear, you want to distance yourself from the Enomis wagon. We got it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Again, correct. Mala's meta bullshit, followed by a whole load of shit reasoning caused Enomis' lynch, I felt Enomis could have been a very useful player to town. I stated I was pissed at the time of his lynch/start of D2, nothing has changed.

You've made it quite clear, you want to distance yourself from the Enomis wagon. We got it.

I hope so. I hope it's also quite clear that it was a bullshit wagon full of bullshit reasons.

[Moratorium]

For somebody who felt sure they played D1 pretty badly, and was an easy D2 lynch, you have managed to get everyone(?) in the game to read you as town, except for me. I thought this may have been your intent and what may have happened when you posted it. Which is why I asked if you had done this to pre-empt any pressure/questioning, to which you replied with 'Hey, if you have any questions fire away' having already attempted an explanation for everything that could have been asked. I feel like this post has been overlooked by everyone.

I like the part where I deviously asked for questions.

That you knew full well had already been answered/referred to. Yeah, pretty safe play if you ask me.

I knew full well. That I had answered all questions. You're being serious right now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

For somebody who felt sure they played D1 pretty badly, and was an easy D2 lynch, you have managed to get everyone(?) in the game to read you as town, except for me. I thought this may have been your intent and what may have happened when you posted it. Which is why I asked if you had done this to pre-empt any pressure/questioning, to which you replied with 'Hey, if you have any questions fire away' having already attempted an explanation for everything that could have been asked. I feel like this post has been overlooked by everyone.

I like the part where I deviously asked for questions.

That you knew full well had already been answered/referred to. Yeah, pretty safe play if you ask me.

I knew full well. That I had answered all questions. You're being serious right now.

You knew full well you had addressed all of the major issues that anybody would have asked about. Like I said, a pre-empt to anything that may have put you under pressure.

[Regfan]

Mora, I don’t make much of the sequence you’ve drawn out in Post 996 at all. Also you’re not wrong in Post 998, the fact that F-16 focused solely on early stuff to explain certain reads of his (Particularly BBT given that he’s calling her scum) really doesn’t bode well with me but I’m waiting on his more updated reads which he’s promised tomorrow. Also for the record I think BBTs stance on Enomis vs Mala being different is purely due to her reads, I don’t think it’s a scum tell in the slightest, I’m just reading her as tunnely-probably-town right now.

BBT, you’re wrong on Mora. Really really wrong, I can cope with you pushing on Mala because while I think she’s town I’m not entirely sold on it but with Mora I’d be shocked if he’s scum here. I find the whole “I played badly D1” post of his that you’ve quoted to be understandable, when I mslynch someone I do come out admitting that I didn’t play it well the next day and the intention behind that isn’t to be “town-read” it’s to state a genuine fact.

Xay, it’s the fact that the “passive stance” you’ve taken this game is something that predominately helps and is used by scum that’s a large point, town know to win the game they have to work out, catch and lynch mafia and there’s no attempt from you to do that at all. There’s nothing about your play that even looks like you trying and if what you saying is true in Post 1006 that you don’t have drive for the game then why stay here? If you’re town you’re purposely not caring about whether you win or not which is pitiful. And the point about the nightkill is massive, if for instance you’re town and got nightkilled it would be

very

unnatural for me to come out and say you were nightkilled because you weren’t going to be msylnched when I was planning on pushing on you but that’s what you’ve done with Wolfy.

[Moratorium]

Would it be like a fedora? Or more like a hat made out of fruit? Cause I could try to petition the mod to change me to scum, and you could post videos and such...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT, you’re wrong on Mora. Really really wrong, I can cope with you pushing on Mala because while I think she’s town I’m not entirely sold on it but with Mora I’d be shocked if he’s scum here. I find the whole “I played badly D1” post of his that you’ve quoted to be understandable, when I mslynch someone I do come out admitting that I didn’t play it well the next day and the intention behind that isn’t to be “town-read” it’s to state a genuine fact.

What do you make of his reasoning for his Enomis vote?

Also, I'm a he. It's really confusing me reading your posts

PEdit - Mora, are you worried about being universally town-read?

[Moratorium]

BBT, you’re wrong on Mora. Really really wrong, I can cope with you pushing on Mala because while I think she’s town I’m not entirely sold on it but with Mora I’d be shocked if he’s scum here. I find the whole “I played badly D1” post of his that you’ve quoted to be understandable, when I mslynch someone I do come out admitting that I didn’t play it well the next day and the intention behind that isn’t to be “town-read” it’s to state a genuine fact.

What do you make of his reasoning for his Enomis vote?

Also, I'm a he. It's really confusing me reading your posts

PEdit - Mora, are you worried about being universally town-read?

I really enjoy it, I can do crazy shit and no one cares!

vote: JacobSavage

dayvig: BBT

[Regfan]

Ah sorry BBT thought you were a she for some reason, will make sure I get that right from hereon out. I think Moras vote on Enomis is based of VCA stated in Post 542, Post 543, Post 546 as well as an attempt to pressure him to answer his questions, I see nothing scummy about it, I mean sure it's not based of the soundest of reasoning but I can make that same statement for just about everyones vote on that wagon and everyones not scum. Can you explain your town read on Shinobi in greater detail for me and take a look and answer Post 991 please.

Mora it would look something like this.