Open 556: Fire and Ice (Over)

[Not_Mafia]

EBWOP: Why was that question directed at Moonlight? And if you think Ascended needs questioning then

you

question them.

[The_Ascended]

I don't mean to be a stick in the mud, but why are so many townreading Boro so strongly? He's not strongly scummy, but I see him as pretty null. He's engaging with the group and talking, but I don't see much insight from that corner. He makes comments on stuff a lot, and attacks bad arguments (I like this quite a bit), but isn't really fighting

for

very much. This could just be a playstyle issue and that's fine. I'm not saying he's scum or suggesting that anyone vote for him, I just want to know why he's being so strongly townread.

[Not_Mafia]

I'm guessing this is Pasch. Is it possible for you to start signing your posts, the source has been obvious for all your post so far but it's a nice habit to get in to for clarity later on.

My townread on boro is because I do see him actively pursuing his read(s), on the top of my head the biggest example would be his interactions with Moonlight regarding Trickster before moonlight's read flipping and having no reservations about being in the spotlight or at the forefront of the game.

[Tr1ckster]

My townread on boro is because I do see him actively pursuing his read(s), on the top of my head the biggest example would be his interactions with Moonlight regarding Trickster before moonlight's read flipping and having no reservations about being in the spotlight or at the forefront of the game.

Hm. There goes my hesitancy to scumread you.

I'll go back and respond to what I need to.

[Not_Mafia]

Care to explain that? I'm scum for townreading Boro?

[Baezu]

I don't mean to be a stick in the mud, but why are so many townreading Boro so strongly? He's not strongly scummy, but I see him as pretty null. He's engaging with the group and talking, but I don't see much insight from that corner. He makes comments on stuff a lot, and attacks bad arguments (I like this quite a bit), but isn't really fighting

for

very much. This could just be a playstyle issue and that's fine. I'm not saying he's scum or suggesting that anyone vote for him, I just want to know why he's being so strongly townread.

I feel it mostly based on his interactions especially with trickster. But I guess he could be on the other scum team...

[Not_Mafia]

My townread on boro is because I do see him actively pursuing his read(s), on the top of my head the biggest example would be his interactions with Moonlight regarding Trickster before moonlight's read flipping and

having no reservations about being in the spotlight or at the forefront of the game

.

I should clarify that the bold is what makes me think town and not 'probably town but could be second scum team'

[BoroPhil]

Trickster, in isolation.

Where have you answered these?

Because he makes little to no sense to me, and I can't understand his train of thought. He seems to be misunderstanding things on purpose, unwilling to work with town, and overall stubborn.

You don't even have to copy it out again. Just link me to the post(s).

Tricky.

[BoroPhil]

My reads list, from town to scum:

Leaning town: Not_Mafia, Moonlight

Weak lean town: Boro, Baezu

Null: 4 Heads, The_Ascended (I find hydras pretty hard to read, but nothing in their posts has particularly alarmed me yet)

Leaning scum: idk (lurking), randommidget (lack of conviction in scumhunting), Yuriko (lurking, even taking V/LA into consideration)

Scumreads: Zephyrus, Tr1ckster (see previous post)

(Replacing out: tman2nd)

random semi-touched on this, but why leave out tman? even if he is replacing out, your read is still valid

[BoroPhil]

My reads list, from town to scum:

Leaning town: Not_Mafia, Moonlight

Weak lean town: Boro, Baezu

Null: 4 Heads, The_Ascended (I find hydras pretty hard to read, but nothing in their posts has particularly alarmed me yet)

Leaning scum: idk (lurking), randommidget (lack of conviction in scumhunting), Yuriko (lurking, even taking V/LA into consideration)

Scumreads: Zephyrus, Tr1ckster (see previous post)

(Replacing out: tman2nd)

Sorry, but what does lack of conviction to scumhunting mean? Please can you show your examples. Similarly to The_Ascended, I start to get into my stride once we have one or two flips. I am starting to look at what certain flips would mean, but cant provide anything concrete yet. Also, it is slightly odd that you have more scum reads than town reads. And I think that your reads are very...conformist. If I wanted to stay low and not bring attention to myself those are very similar to the reads I would give.

I also quite like this from random. While Finglove's last couple of posts have been good, I see what you mean about conformist. but that could be just the ol'paranoia kicking in. But your questioning of it is solid.

[BoroPhil]

Elite? Is there some objective scale that measures "player skill" that I'm not aware of?

I treat mastin as I'd treat anyone I've never played with before. Reputation means nothing, and I say this because I had quite the rep myself on another site and it meant nothing to me there as well. Experience doesn't tell you how much one has learned from it.

My interest in her comes purely from how she treats the game, I am not familiar with how she plays and I'm curious to experience that.

/end derail

Regarding Tricks: many of his recent posts bring me sooo close to waffling on my read on him. If I squint my eyes hard enough, I can almost make out a stubborn Townie that refuses to deal with the situation that his play is being widely scumread.

But a large part of that is me

wanting

to townread him: bias. No matter how hard I try to, I cannot excuse his huge AtE after I voted him. He is aware of how waffly I get in such situations, and I believe he wanted to capitalize on that weakness.

going back to this - by elite I suppose I meant 'royalty'. I don't really pay much attention to reputations, so I wouldn't have known mastin from the next person, but that's quite a hefty reputation they have. I suppose I'm pleased that we seem to be agreeing on everything - but then she is surely good enough to totally fake that.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't have doubts about Tricky - and it's not uncommon for active townies to fight it out on day one while scum sit back. but he is doing absolutely nothing to convince us that he isn't scum, and surely if he was TownTricky he would be desperate to. and it's not like it's just coming from me. It's me, Ascended, not and to a lesser extent Moon all saying the same things.

not has reposted a ton of things, Tricky went missing for a bit, comes back and continues to ignore it.

[Not_Mafia]

I did have an inkling of possible arrogant/stubborn town from Trickster but a reread and his continued unrepentant refusal to respond to people and to explain his cases have pushed me to the point where I will be baffled if he flips town.

[Moonlight]

Jasmine's lack of effort upsets me. Not enough to want her lynched over Tricks today, but it's either her or Zeph next.

It's times like this that I wish we could lynch multiple people at once. >_<

[Moonlight]

Also, I don't think I'll bother repeating myself when it comes to Tricks. He must have at least skimmed through my huge wall, in which I have pointed out which posts by him make him scumread him, and his replies are not convincing.

I don't think this is Town-him being stubborn, it's scum-him being caught and not knowing how to escape.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

Tr1ckster (5) - BoroPhil, Moonlight, Baezu, 4 Heads of Insanity, Finglove
BoroPhil (2) - randomidget, Tr1ckster
YurikoJasmine (1) - idk
Finglove (1) - YurikoJasmine
Zephyrus (1) - Not_Mafia

Not Voting (3) - Zephyrus, tman2nd, The_Ascended

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is May 22nd, 8PM PST

tman2nd is being replaced

[LlamaFluff]

4 Heads Of Insanity and idk have been prodded

[Tr1ckster]

Also, I don't think I'll bother repeating myself when it comes to Tricks. He must have at least skimmed through my huge wall, in which I have pointed out which posts by him make him scumread him, and his replies are not convincing.

I don't think this is Town-him being stubborn, it's scum-him being caught and not knowing how to escape.

Hm? Sorry, no. I flail when I don't know how to escape.

One thing has me curious, though. I'm going to be lynched, neh? So why aren't you scumhunting elsewhere? Why are you so content with my death and no further information?

Sure, you've commented on other people, but you haven't actually questioned.

And I really don't like your reaction to the implication that you could be scum earlier. After my death, I would seriously look into Moonlight's play, @Town.

[Randomnamechange]

UNVOTE: borophil didnt realize I still had my vote here. Still thinking about where my vote should go.

[Finglove]

I don't want to share my read on tman, because I'd like the replacement to settle in without me (effectively) pressurising them to play with/against a previous playstyle. Once they've posted a bit, I'll share my thoughts before/after replacing in and what I think that means - I expect this to be much more helpful.

[Moonlight]

Hm? Sorry, no. I flail when I don't know how to escape.

One thing has me curious, though. I'm going to be lynched, neh? So why aren't you scumhunting elsewhere? Why are you so content with my death and no further information?

Sure, you've commented on other people, but you haven't actually questioned.

And I really don't like your reaction to the implication that you could be scum earlier. After my death, I would seriously look into Moonlight's play, @Town.

You really aren't paying any attention to what I've been saying. =/ I'm waiting for your flip before I scumhunt elsewhere, not to mention I have already stated that I'm scumreading Zeph and Jasmine, making your whole point invalid.

Your buddy will have to shoot me, I'm afraid. But prove me wrong, try to get me lynched, whoever you are. I am fucking obvious when I'm Town and this game is no different, despite the doubts that go around for whatever reason.

Bring it on.

[Not_Mafia]

I'll go back and respond to what I need to.

Still waiting on this. I will hunt you down Trickster.

[Tr1ckster]

You really aren't paying any attention to what I've been saying. =/ I'm waiting for your flip before I scumhunt elsewhere, not to mention I have already stated that I'm scumreading Zeph and Jasmine, making your whole point invalid.

LOL what? Just because you have further scumreads doesn't mean you're scumhunting elsewhere. Why would you give up after you've got me? That doesn't make sense. Set up town for D2. Get them ready. Town doesn't give in. It doesn't even make sense to wait for my flip. My point isn't invalid, you

haven't

been scumhunting elsewhere. You've got two further scumreads - so what? You're not exploring them. I've paid close attention to everything you've said, and it's not sitting right with me as town.

tl;dr

I have been paying attention to what you've been saying.

Why would you wait for my flip?

My point isn't invalid - having scumreads =/= scumhunting - scum can easily BS their reads.

[Tr1ckster]

Still waiting on this. I will hunt you down Trickster.

Erp. Sorry, I'll try to get to it. >.<

[Moonlight]

You really aren't paying any attention to what I've been saying. =/ I'm waiting for your flip before I scumhunt elsewhere, not to mention I have already stated that I'm scumreading Zeph and Jasmine, making your whole point invalid.

LOL what? Just because you have further scumreads doesn't mean you're scumhunting elsewhere. Why would you give up after you've got me? That doesn't make sense. Set up town for D2. Get them ready. Town doesn't give in. It doesn't even make sense to wait for my flip. My point isn't invalid, you

haven't

been scumhunting elsewhere. You've got two further scumreads - so what? You're not exploring them. I've paid close attention to everything you've said, and it's not sitting right with me as town.

tl;dr

I have been paying attention to what you've been saying.

Why would you wait for my flip?

My point isn't invalid - having scumreads =/= scumhunting - scum can easily BS their reads.

I have already pointed fingers at Zeph and Jasmine. What am I supposed to do when they ignore me, vote them so you can escape your lynch?

I don't need to give anyone any directions. That's not me giving up, that's me trusting that my team knows where to go from here. It

does

make sense to wait for your flip, because it changes

everything

.

[Randomnamechange]

Moonlight. You are complaining about Tr1cks ignoring arguments about him. Yet you think idk and Jasmine not answering means there isn't anything you can do.