NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[Glork]

MBL, sweet pea, you're getting pretty buddy-buddy. I'm a big boy and can take care of this myself.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

We weren't going to no-lynch MBL, really.

Sotty7, I think if the Tigris thing is a scum tell by LmL, it's probably more subtle; I don't see LmL contradicting the notion that the vote was initially random anywhere.

[MrBuddyLee]

MBL, sweet pea, you're getting pretty buddy-buddy. I'm a big boy and can take care of this myself.

Why not make a buddy flick out of it? You can be Will Smith. I'll be anyone except Rob Schneider.


*CTDsignal*

[petroleumjelly]

This game is too long.

Unvote: Albert B. Rampage, Vote: DrippingGoofball

1.)

The more I think about it the more I think she is scum. Her Day One Porochaz "suspicions" based in-part on some sort of Process of Elimination (I actually have Porochaz as a fairly good Townread at this point), her end-of-Day-One Untrod Tripod push (without reasons and asking other players to "read his iso"), openly preferring a No Lynch over a LoudmouthLee lynch, acting overly and loudly confused with LoudmouthLee's "Hickory Dickory Dock" hint (and I grant she did not understand the hint, but I still do not like that she presumed he was crumbing roleblocker, and I suspect that perhaps LoudmouthLee might have even left a comment to that effect in the Mafia QT, especially if his "Rollus Interruptus/DiceBlocking" post was

actually

a fake crumb), her focus on the LoudmouthLee voters due to LoudmouthLee's "bus" comment, her reaction to pressure, her attempt at acting like the LoudmouthLee voters voting her makes her wagon awful (when I think it actually rather suggests the wagon is

better

), her awful "Albert B. Rampage is hinting at being a Cop with a guilty on mathcam" post. Largely all reasons I have brought up before.

I also decided to check on DrippingGoofball's last game on-site, where she was a Mafia Godmother, Micro #327, Ladies Night 3 (which was painful even to skim). In it, she:

a.)

Declared many Town reads on Day One and seemed to only hunt scum through a sort of "process of elimination" (like she is doing here, likely because I expect it is easier to call people Town than it is to make up a fake case).

b.)

Openly acted like a Townie was a Cop on Day One (to the pont of asserting the Townie had "claimed Cop" when they had, in fact, made no such claim but said they wanted time to "investigate" players). The "Cop" was pretty much tying a noose on herself with her play, and DrippingGoofball nonchalantly threw fuel on the fire by acting confused on another topic ("that's so weird, why would she risk this... as scum or as cop?"). Eventually the "Cop" was compelled to claim Cop, they were counterclaimed (by the real Cop) and lynched.

c.)

She attacked her attackers

very

consistently.

d.)

She purposefully twisted attacks against her ("LOL") and gave the impression that the attacks were nonsensical or answered largely in near non sequiturs (

almost

answering but not

quite

answering questions).

There are also a few other parallels I could draw, but they are weaker and I'm not convinced they are very telling. But I am fairly convinced DrippingGoofball is scum.

The

biggest

argument for why DrippingGoofball is scum was her attempt to get Albert B. Rampage (or other players) to comment on whether Albert B. Rampage could be a Cop with a guilty result on mathcam. That sort of assertion in-game can generate information (for

scum

) in many ways, even if DrippingGoofball had reasons to believe Albert B. Rampage did not (or could not) have such a result. DrippingGoofball might

act

dumb and confused, but she is fairly savvy and knows how to extract information when she is scum and get away with precisely because of her playstyle. She also clearly knows how to pull a guilt trip (to the point of "writing the book on AtE"). While I sympathize with her real-life problems, that does not influence my thoughts on her slot.

I also think her expression confusion on LoudmouthLee's "Hickory Dickory Dock" may well have been a subtle invitation for others to let LoudmouthLee's obvious claim of a

power role

(regardless of

what

he was implying) sink in so that it could result in unvotes and an eventual No-Lynch or mislynch elsewhere. Taking these opportunities to subtly encourage discussion / reactions of

potentially

implied claims of power (thereby making it easier for the mafia to hunt for power roles) is too scummy to ignore.

2.)

I am not in love with the case against undo.

3.)

So briefly, then, what answer could VitR given yesterday that would have made you feel he was scum, and what answer would have made you feel he might be town?
I'd like to know the same with mathcam.

I'm trying to differentiate between TownPJ asking questions and genuinely criticizing the answers and scumPJ twisting the answers to suit your needs, and how likely townPJ picks up false scum reads in particular from your "trap" questions.

I cannot answer that for you. I ask questions for the potential of getting reads based on reactions / answers. Oftentimes I expect certain responses and do not, in fact, get them (it is in fact very rare for a planned set of questions to "go as planned," in large part because people are surely on their guard when they feel there must be a hook in the worm). An open and honest response I tend to favor; a closed response or a refusal to answer can either be good or bad depending on the question.

In this case, VitaminR refused to answer my question (which is understandable on one level because I realized when I asked it that getting him to narrow down the "weak players" was not going to do well for his publicity, and so I tried to undercut that effect by openly recognizing that his answer was not going to make him any friends; however, in doing so, he continually acted like I was purposefully misunderstanding his argument when I in fact understood his argument very well and found fault in it, and I think he too saw my point but was reluctant to acknowledge it). And mathcam's response ended up not being particularly enlightening (in part because his +1/-1's did not include post numbers, making it very difficult to determine if he was truthfully trying to determine alignments).

[Green Crayons]

Also, if Bookitty comes up town,

it'd be really hard to make the case that Glork was scum protecting her all day.

You'd have to add that protection of a townie up against a scum wagon to his "spot" of the "bus" and his willingness to post and vote in a possible no-lynch situation to sink his scumpartner. Plus your(undo's) statements that LML's interactions with Glork make them look like unlikely scumpartners.

All that being said, a Glork vote is a really ill-considered/scummy vote right now, imo.

Also, you think Bookitty is very town.. so from that perspective,

do you REALLY think Glork's protection of her all day

combined with the fact that the alternative wagon was scum combined with the fact that he was the vote that tied it up between Boo and LML, etc etc points to Glork as likely scum?

You're describing a game that never happened. So that's cool.

[Green Crayons]

UNVOTE: inHim. I would like to think he will still respond to Post 1351 and Post 1354 even without my current vote on him, but if not, I can always vote him again.

VOTE: DGB, because PJ Post 1378's Point (1).

[Kublai Khan]

@KK

, what do you think of Glork's vote for LML that made it 8-8? Is that really the kind of play scum makes on a partner a few hours before deadline, when no-lynch is a more likely possibility? Please walk me through how that makes sense to you.

Glork voted LoudmouthLee directly after (and because of) LoudmouthLee making his "bus slip". So absolutely yes it could be a partner vote because the door was swung wide open. (Like holy shit. Context.)

Going silent and hoping for a no-lynch is a) not Glork's style and b) scummier than bussing a dying partner for town cred.

Glork also pestered you for a vote 16 hours before deadline, knowing full well that you suspected LML from an earlier post. Why the fuck would he do that as scum instead of shutting up and hoping for a nolynch?

A) I don't think Glork cared who I would vote for and b) Why are you defending Glork so much?

Also, you think Bookitty is very town.. so from that perspective, do you REALLY think Glork's protection of her all day combined with the fact that the alternative wagon was scum combined with the fact that he was the vote that tied it up between Boo and LML, etc etc points to Glork as likely scum?

I mean, it's possible, but it really stretches likelihood.

It's mafia. Likelihoods are gonna get stretched. And yes, I think that makes Glork likely scum. The two main wagons were Bookitty and his buddy LoudmouthLee. Glork doesn't really want LoudmouthLee lynched, but the alternate wagon is on someone that he's gone out of his way to insist that she is town. So the solution is start a ruckus on a third party and see if momentum can be gained.

Also speaking of stretching likelihoods, you ignored my questions about why you think petroleumjelly is scum.

---
What? We're pushing a DrippingGoofball wagon again now? After I lost heart because it stalled? This game is toying with my emotions.

[Sotty7]

Sotty7, I think if the Tigris thing is a scum tell by LmL, it's probably more subtle; I don't see LmL contradicting the notion that the vote was initially random anywhere.

That's not really the point, but I would like CTD to respond.

DGB really needs some lynching.

[Patrick]

Votecount

DrippingGoofball (4) -- Save the Dragons, CrashTextDummie, petroleumjelly, Green Crayons
Glork (3) -- VitaminR, undo, Kublai Khan
CrashTextDummie (1) -- inHimshallibe
Albert B. Rampage (2) -- DrippingGoofball, mathcam
undo (7) -- MrBuddyLee, Glork, chamber, Cogito Ergo Sum, Yosarian2, Porochaz, Untrod Tripod
Untrod Tripod (1) -- Albert B. Rampage
inHimshallibe (1) -- Sotty7

Not voting: Bookitty
20 alive, 11 to lynch

[Bookitty]

Okay, I completed my reread up to the point where LML posts his VCA. I have a huge list of notes that I can post if people want to see how I derived my viewpoints. It's HUGE though, and I won't be cleaning it up, but it's readable to me and I think it can be understood. I only focused on interactions with LML and about him, and only the ones that I thought were important.

My suspicions of Undo are apparently not all based on OMGUS, which is something I was checking for. DGB looks significantly worse too, because of some RVS voting. MBL looks town to me on my reread; Green Crayons too. LML's defense of VitaminR is off somehow. Untrod Tripod's Post 306 is oddly noncommittal; he doesn't recall? More suspicious of chamber now. Mathcam stays on my list because of inconsistency in recent posts, but I don't think I saw any meaningful incriminating information in MafiaSSK's posts at the start of the game.

My primary reasons for voting Undo have to do with LML's attack on ABR based on Undo's "legitimate question" and Undo's questioning of ABR about their LML votes. He asks ABR repeatedly why he's voting LML and hunts that line of questioning much longer than I think is reasonable.

VOTE: Undo

If you don't mind reading my notes, I'll be happy to post them. Remember, you were warned.

[Bookitty]

@GreenCrayons

InHim is being replaced.

[Green Crayons]

Is he? I'm going off of this:

I guess I can continue to play, but I won't be very active.

[Green Crayons]

My primary reasons for voting Undo have to do with LML's attack on ABR based on Undo's "legitimate question" and Undo's questioning of ABR about their LML votes. He asks ABR repeatedly why he's voting LML and hunts that line of questioning much longer than I think is reasonable.

I'm interested in what specific posts you're referring to.

[Bookitty]

Looking for a replacement for inHimshallibe.

[Green Crayons]

Psh. You read Patrick's posts?

[Bookitty]

My primary reasons for voting Undo have to do with LML's attack on ABR based on Undo's "legitimate question" and Undo's questioning of ABR about their LML votes. He asks ABR repeatedly why he's voting LML and hunts that line of questioning much longer than I think is reasonable.

I'm interested in what specific posts you're referring to.

Excerpts from my notes:

Undo questions ABR's vote on LML in post 96.

LML's Post 110. He quotes the post in which Undo questioned ABR's vote on LML. Then quotes STD's later vote on undo for questioning ABR's vote on LML. Then votes STD. " At every turn. I dislike Albert's lack of.. well... anything. He has not seem to be scumhunting whatsoever, and if he is, he is not sharing any analysis thus far. What's more telling, however, was Undo asking a legitimate question, and STD running to defend Albert's lack of substance. Strangely, MafiaSSK's response to Save The Dragon's post is similar to mine. There's something here, in this exchange, and I think I know where to start." Votes STD. Asks ABR about ABR's vote, asks Undo about the previous wagons on MafiaSSK (mathcam) and Tigris (Kublai Khan).

Undo in post 204: quotes ABR: "I believe in the LML wagon." Undo: "Why?"

Post 213, ABR: "LML, good choice, lock and load"

Undo requotes his question from post 204 in post 220. ABR responds: "His (LML's) votes don't inspire trust."

Post 246, Undo continues to question ABR about his LML vote.

LML's post 302. Jabs at ABR, ad hominem. Muddled response to Yos's question: "Yos, going back to the opening page,
my first post was a dice roll (myself) and the second post was a re-roll. Tigris was the vote in RVS. I didn't move it to begin with because of Tigris's hop on MafiaSSK for being the third person to vote on a wagon, twice. I kept my vote on Tigris instead of moving it because (a) no one, at the moment, was more suspicious and (b) my vote was there already. I know this may not make any sense, but my suspicion of Tigris would have not have warranted a vote at the time... but since my vote was already there, I kept it there. It would have warranted a FoS."
Continues saying STD is scum.
Also, in tangential regard to Undo, states this: "It sucks to admit, but I'm kinda feeling like I've lost a step. Like I'm not nearly as good at this game as I used to be." (Need to check if Undo catches this AtE) He never did, so it makes it look like he's just cherrypicking his dislike of AtE to suit his voting needs.

I think that's all of it.

[Sotty7]

Unvote, vote: DGB

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, vote Glork

[DrippingGoofball]

Thank you PJ for that

shamelessly dishonest

bit of "meta" where you failed to look at any town games of mine.

This game reminds me very much of Pikmin Mafia - I had nailed a large part of the scum team and some of the scum (notably Oversoul and ActionDan) pushed very hard to lynch me (even as I was a counterclaiming VIG!), while some other scum sat coyly in the corners. They succeeded in lynching me (the vig), and that town was such a mountain of FAIL that they still didn't lynch these two scumbags and the scum WON.

I strongly believe LML was

in fact

X-bus'ing with a couple of his buddies, and my being vocal about this is one big reason why the scum needs to eliminate me. MBL will agree; anyone suggesting that there may not have been bus'ing, or that LML wrote "bus" on purpose is HIGHLY SUSPECT. These are players trying very hard to undo the damage caused by LML to the scum team. LML's buddies wanted him lynched for all the bus'ing he was doing. You have to have been scum with LML to understand this.

I think the main target of LML's bus'ing was PJ. PJ was the buddy that needed LML lynched the most for (1) town cred and (2) to get LML off his own back.

The players dismissing the LML-bus'ing theory are mostly scum >>> and me just saying that right now is going to earn me more votes, just watch.

I'm willing to put some work and give you all my 100% analysis of the game but unlike the dumbos of Pikmin Mafia, I need that some of you promise to lynch the players on my scum list to give my game ghost some peace in the Dead QT.

Do we have a deal?

I don't want to be wasting my time like I did on the Pikmin FAILtown.

Right off the bat I'm pretty sure that PJ is scum (though I don't relish going up against him, he's going to bury me in

words

) and Sotty7 as well. I've played with Sotty7 before many times and she's totally not scum hunting. I

will

analyse their play with a "clean mind" to avoid confirmation bias.

[Albert B. Rampage]

This is a good deal, guys, let's take it.

DGB, speaking on behalf of this town, I promise you that we will lynch the players on your scum list, based on the surely sound analysis that you will be providing.

[Sotty7]

DGB - what do you think of the possibility that CTD was the bussing buddy?

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB - what do you think of the possibility that CTD was the bussing buddy?

CTD or STD?

[Sotty7]

CrashTextDummie.

His day one ISO has much to do about nothing were LML is concerned and his end of day one hammer is null in my opinion.

[Kublai Khan]

I'm willing to put some work and give you all my 100% analysis of the game but unlike the dumbos of Pikmin Mafia, I need that some of you promise to lynch the players on my scum list to give my game ghost some peace in the Dead QT.

Do we have a deal? I don't want to be wasting my time like I did on the Pikmin FAILtown.

So.. You're going to work hard analyzing the game and if the analysis is rigorous, then people should lynch who you think is scum. Wow, that's the same deal that every town player explicitly makes by joining this game as town. What a bargain!

But you decided to wait until their was a big wagon on you first and you voted a ton of people and tried to get other people lynched without really analyzing anything so far, apparently.

[Albert B. Rampage]

lol ^