NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[Glork]

I don't think I've seen DGB simply acquiesce to being lynched as either alignment. The impression I got from her "I give up" post is that it worked for Bookie, so it might just work for her.

Quickie question. On the subject of me "giving up," how often have you seen me self-vote?

Never, and I didn't think you were truly giving up here. I felt that something else was at play, and the only basis of comparison I had that seemed relevant was Bookie's emotional post.

[mathcam]

MBL:

Probably pro-town

: Chamber, Sotty, StD, inhim,

PJ

, Yos
Slight pro-town read: MBL, KK, GC, VitR, Glork
Not sure: CTD, DGB
Slight scum: UT, undo, CES, BooKitty
Leaning scum: ABR, porochaz

The FOS was, in hindsight, more annoyance than determined scumminess (though I still think a little of the latter was there as well). But in any case, the read on PJ is based on his interaction with LML on Day 1. I just had a hard time seeing that from a scum PJ perspective.

If you were truly sold, did you consider lobbying against the wagon?

The entirety of the wagon sprung up and died, thanks to the role claim, between two of my visits to the thread. I most certainly would have spoken against the wagon had I been here. I suspect Yos would have as well. Hence the slight frustration that the role claim happened so quickly.

Kudos to ABR for a very solid post.

[Patrick]

Votecount

DrippingGoofball (1) -- Sotty7
Glork (6) -- undo, Kublai Khan, petroleumjelly, VitaminR, Porochaz, mathcam
CrashTextDummie (1) -- SpyreX
undo (1) -- chamber
MrBuddyLee (2) -- Glork, Green Crayons
mathcam (6) -- CrashTextDummie, Cogito Ergo Sum, Bookitty, Untrod Tripod, Save the Dragons, DrippingGoofball
Cogito Ergo Sum (1) -- Yosarian2
VitaminR (1) -- Albert B. Rampage

Not voting: MrBuddyLee
20 alive, 11 to lynch

[DrippingGoofball]

Your (3) and (6) are the same point--humor is scummy. Sue me for trying to have fun in my one game in like three years or whatever.

I heard from someone that humor represented a guilty conscience or a need to distract though.

Haha STD, that's the funniest thing anyone has said all game!

[DrippingGoofball]

I don't think I've seen DGB simply acquiesce to being lynched as either alignment. The impression I got from her "I give up" post is that it worked for Bookie, so it might just work for her.

Quickie question. On the subject of me "giving up," how often have you seen me self-vote?

Never, and I didn't think you were truly giving up here. I felt that something else was at play, and the only basis of comparison I had that seemed relevant was Bookie's emotional post.

???
I'm the Queen, no, the Supreme Ruler of Self-Voting and I don't know why that's not my title. You have never seen me self-vote?

[Glork]

I don't think so, no. I've seen you completely implode (Covert Ops Mafia comes to mind), but I don't think I've actually been in a game with you where you've gone as far as self-voting.

[Glork]

And I don't think you've imploded the way you did in Covert Ops. Your behavior here is radically different.

[Glork]

Like in CoOps, you knew you were caught, and you weren't going to escape. Here you've actually fought to survive and look at the people who were trying to bring you down. It's different.

[DrippingGoofball]

Glork, mathcam is voting you admittedly out of self-preservation.

You are voting MBL who will not be lynched today. Why aren't you voting for mathcam, as you are currently 6-6?

[Sotty7]

You are voting MBL who will not be lynched today. Why aren't you voting for mathcam, as you are currently 6-6?

I like this question but I think he answered it in a recent post. Still this was a thought of mine as well that is more of a plus than anything.

Right now the two viable wagons are on two slots I think are probable town. Glork's defense of LML on day one just doesn't read to me like a scum buddy defense. He just sticks his neck out way too far for me to believe he would risk it. He had a lot of outs, but just continues to drown himself in the LML wagon. However, I would like Glork to describe the difference between his defense of LML and MBL's defense of him and why it makes him nervous. I have an opinion on this but I would like to hear from Glork.

SSK's wagon at the start of the game was much more based on his play style rather than actual scumminess, at least in my opinion. I felt a lot of mathcam's reactions to pressure have felt some what legit. His feeling of being "trapped" by PJ was something I could somewhat understand for example. I think his ABR wagon has been beating a dead horse though, which while I don't agree it feels like a townie not wanting to let go. He could have easily slipped away from this case considering the lack of reception it has been garnering. Instead he stuck with it. I think his switch to Glork for "self persavation" was a little cynical though. He just got done saying how PJ shouldn't have claimed because we had time. That statement and action don't really jive.

Out of the two of them I would be most likely to switch to mathcam.

MBL has troubled me most of the game. He seemed very standoffish and for as much heat PJ got for his questions, MBL didn't really get that considering a lot of his early play was peppering questions into the thread without providing us as an insight to his thought process. ABR and DGB both claimed to find GC's case on MBL to be weak but I can see myself sheeping GC for the rest of the game at this rate. I mentioned that I felt MBL'sposting had improved a few pages back, but that doesn't really take away from the game as whole. I think he has been very careful in what and when he posts and it doesn't strike me as very genuine. As it seems like a DGB lynch is out of reach for today, I am much more tempted to move a vote here to see what we can do rather than settle for one the other top wagons.

Unvote, Vote: MBL

CTD reaction to my push on me was very knee-jerky. I had been a town read of his all game and then when I question him he finds my reactions to LML to be scummy. Just doesn't feel genuine, but I think this is how he plays mostly. I was half expecting him to come back at me so feel like writing that off as how he is. My underlying scum read of him remains, mostly for his LML interactions. This is noticeably weaker than when I first looked toward him though.

ABR's case on VitR actually makes sense as sounds pretty well reasoned when I read it though. I still have a pretty strong town read on VitR though, but I am willing to look at him with more of an open mind. It makes me more comfortable that ABR is probably town.

[MrBuddyLee]

I feel similarly to Sotty about the leading wagons.. not a great feeling about Glork and mathcam wagons yielding scum.

Glork, partially because his vote was instrumental in getting LML lynched and partially because of the way LML sucked up to him and tried to pit him and PJ against each other. As far as voting goes he's been mostly awful (PJ1, PJ2, undo, MBL) but just looking at LML-stuff, he looks relatively ok. If it was just the LML-kissing-Glork's-ass stuff, I'd be more up in the air, but combined with the overall Glork opinions on LML and eventual vote, the hard evidence kind of says townish to me.

As for cam, he's been against the two "bad" wagons today and actively arguing against one. He's felt a little floaty/lynch-happy re: DGB/ABR today and vanilla townies yesterday, but ugh, him not biting on either PJ or undo wagon today is a pretty pro-town thing. I recall having the feeling that SSK was the VI wagon that LML was talking about, and that perhaps he was run up early by scum, but at this point that would require some of {CTD, Bookitty, KK} to be scum assuming Poro, PJ and undo are town.

ABR and DGB both claimed to find GC's case on MBL to be weak but I can see myself sheeping GC for the rest of the game at this rate.

Do you agree or disagree with my rebuttal of GC's case and the general assessment that it was weak and overstated? Please give facts.


From my perspective, here are the number of times people have been on somewhat-confirmed-shitty wagons and not on the lynch:

If Bookitty town:
Glork: PJ1, *Boo*, undo, MBL, PJ2 4.5
Albert: PJ1, (-LML), PJ2 3
CES: *Boo*, undo, (-LML) 2.5
chamber: (-LML), undo, *Boo* 2.5
UT: *Boo*, undo, PJ 2.5
Sotty: *Boo*, (-LML), MBL 2.5
DGB: (-LML), PJ2 2
VitR: PJ1, PJ2 2
Bookitty: PJ1, undo 2
cam: *Boo*, (-LML) 1.5
undo: *Boo*, (-LML) 1.5
NatiRex: (-LML), *Boo* 1.5
STD: PJ1, *Boo* 1.5
CTD: *Boo*, undo 1.5
Crayons: MBL 1
Yos:undo 1
Poro: undo 1
MBL: undo 1
PJ: *Boo* .5

KK: 0

If Bookitty scum:
Glork: PJ1, *Boo*, undo, MBL, PJ2 4
Albert: PJ1, (-LML), PJ2 4
VitR: PJ1, PJ2 3
Bookitty: PJ1, undo 3
CES: *Boo*, undo, (-LML) 2
chamber: (-LML), undo, *Boo* 2
Crayons: MBL 2
Yos:undo 2
DGB: (-LML), PJ2 3
Poro: undo 2
MBL: undo 2
Sotty: *Boo*, (-LML), MBL 2
UT: *Boo*, undo, PJ 2
cam: *Boo*, (-LML) 1
undo: *Boo*, (-LML) 1
NatiRex: (-LML), *Boo* 1
CTD: *Boo*, undo 1
STD: PJ1, *Boo* 1
KK: 1
PJ: *Boo* 0


It's an inexact science, weirdly weighting the LML-Boo situation (especially if both are scum) and is skewed against people who votehop a lot. Obviously, you don't want to keep people around who have voted PJ day 1 and day 2, undo, myself and Seol/Boo over LML (unless she's scum). That conflicts with my LML-specific evidence on Glork which I believe suggests he's townish.

My scumhunting is shit right now. Hopefully that's because scum are busing and otherwise doing pro-towny things that will benefit town for at least a while longer. Or are in that group of people who say little and are hard to read and thus you generally prefer to wait til day three to go after them. Or I'm overweighting the things I see as town tells. More later.

[Green Crayons]

~*~ drunk posting ~*~

Poro! I invoke your wisdom! Shine down upon me, and invoke thine power.

----

GC, that was a truly awful case.

Beep boop you have done nothing this game. Thanks for your input.

-----

GC, that was a truly awful case.

I know right

It reads like:

(1) something neutral
(2) something neutral
(3) something neutral
(4) something neutral
(5) something neutral
(6) something neutral

conclusion: player is scum

Beep boop if MBL flipped scum, I would vote for you 100%. So sorry if I take your opinions with a grain of salt.

Also, you are voting ____ because ____. (Yes, this is saying I don't know who you are voting for, much less why, because your reasons are basically fffppppppttt since PJ claimed. By all means please recompose and reassert yourself. <realtalk; not being sarcastic>)

-----

~*~ words ~*~

You have said a lot about Vitamin D2. What about Vitamin D1? I find D1 cases much more persuasive than D2 cases because, well, the obvious reason why. I find D1 Vitamin wholly town. Respond.

-----

@Crayons

, I think your (1) and (2) are the same point--I stayed on KK all day despite finding LML "off". Fair point.

Check.

Your (3) and (6) are the same point--humor is scummy. Sue me for trying to have fun in my one game in like three years or whatever.

WRONG-O, SUCKA. Not all humor is scummy.

(3) is scummy because you are using humor to say "yeah, I'm scum, but this is me saying that I"m scum in a funny way (we're all scum hahahaha), therefore I could not be scum saying such a revealing thing, even if in a funny manner."

(6) is not humor. It is you acknowledging that you did something scummy, but simply handwaving it away as a flippant move. No handwaves are acceptable.

I'm not responding to the remainder of your points because quote wars are bad, and because I think my points are sufficient in and of themselves.

-----

ABR and DGB both claimed to find GC's case on MBL to be weak but I can see myself sheeping GC for the rest of the game at this rate.

UNCOMFORTABLE.

-----

<vote pattern analysis>

The irony here is that you are doing a vote pattern analysis and yet you refuse to allow yourself to have voting patterns.

Hrm. What alignment would want to avoid having voting patterns.


Hrm, indeed.

[Kublai Khan]

UNVOTE: DGB

Don't know who to vote for. How disheartening.

Glork.

You're pushing a case that you yourself admit is a "stretch" of a possibility.

Are you scum or just incapable of sound logic?

That's a hell of a twist on my words. MrBuddyLee thinks it's a stretch. I don't.

Are you scum or just making absurdly defensive posts?

Can someone explain this?

Glork is usually top priority for the NK.

Everyone should call him UNLYNCHABLE TOWN.

If he's still alive on Day 4 with everyone refusing to ever lynch him... he's scum!

That only works if he's correct on his reads. He's already sworn that scum is town (LoudmouthLee) and that town is scum (petroleumjelly). So why have a (horrible) meta policy on him?

@Albert B. Rampage - Is your VitaminR scum-read the only reason for your Glork-town read?

@SpyreX: Hey! You're here! Awesome! Post more! Hypocrisy!

@Green Crayons - Your point (3) is actually your best point.

@anyone riding a wagon of 1. Off your wagons. MrBuddyLee, place a vote somewhere.

[Green Crayons]

GC, that was a truly awful case.

Beep boop you have done nothing this game. Thanks for your input.

I take back what I said in this part of my post.

[Glork]

KK, please indicate where I "swore" that anyone was of a particular alignment.

[DrippingGoofball]

I feel similarly to Sotty about the leading wagons.. not a great feeling about Glork and mathcam wagons yielding scum.

Not something a scum on with the alternative wagon to mathcam & Glork is likely to say.

[DrippingGoofball]

Is there anyone that would shed tears if we lynched this abomination?

17) SpyreX (replacing inHimshallibe who replaced Zorblag, who replaced Natirasha, who replaced farside22)

I mean even SpyreX can't bring himself to play this slot. Five players in two days.

[DrippingGoofball]

I still want to lynch mathcam because ABR had a "guilty" on him, although ABR himself seems to have lost his taste for mathcam blood.

But that SpyreX player slot is really starting to look like 5 players that don't want to play scum.

[Green Crayons]

A SpyreX lynch would be acceptable.

@Patrick:

at what time does the deadline hit?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm OK with Spyrex.

[Patrick]

Apologies, I thought I'd posted that already. It hits at 10pm GMT on Saturday 28th June.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Tomorrow. We need to settle on a lynch.

I want VitaminR. I'll compromise for:

mathcam
Glork
Spyrex
DGB

[Kublai Khan]

I disagree with the SpyreX lynch. It's a dense long game and SpyreX is really good when he's town. Lynching the slot as a compromise when good wagons exist is a scum push.

[MrBuddyLee]

I doubt Spyrex is scum, for various reasons.

[VitaminR]

I also am not inclined towards a SpyreX lynch. He could be a really useful player and I have a slight town read on that slot (I think for the same reasons as MBL).

ABR's case on VitR actually makes sense as sounds pretty well reasoned when I read it though. I still have a pretty strong town read on VitR though, but I am willing to look at him with more of an open mind. It makes me more comfortable that ABR is probably town.

What about ABR's case sounds 'well-reasoned' to you? And, this might be a bit OMGUSy, but that second sentence sounds really opportunistic.

I agree, though, that it makes ABR look really town. I have a hard time seeing scumABR coming out with this much conviction.

ABR, I can see how you might scumread me. But please take the time to reread me with an open mind. I am really not looking forward to having to deal with you trying to mislynch me tomorrow.