NY 177: Simple Complexity (GAME OVER: Scum Wins!)

[Mirhawk]

Elyse's description of me earlier in the game is exactly how I feel right now. But seriously, I'm tired of you and Titus arguing about whether or not we should or shouldn't lynch Aero while the game in itself goes no where.

Obviously it should be clear that Titus believes that both you and Aero are lying about the Gunsmith claim. I also believe that. But it seems like most everyone else is hoping that this claim business is going to work itself out. I'm not sure how it's going to work itself out, because ultimately it is going to require a lynch of some sort to prove or disprove the claim.

But at the same time, the reasons we should or shouldn't lynch tree, oka, tn, and texcat are getting lost in background and will have to be moderately rehashed moving forward. At best, the other town will spend hours ISOing each player for better reads and rereading the DP for context, at worst this DP is so cluttered that town will forget who they were voting for and why, and scum will slip away to victory.
In this superlong 2,000+ DP1, which do you think is more likely to happen? I just finished a 24 player game, and I don't remember DP1 being filled with this much nonsense. God forbid that Farside was actually town, whoever replaces him is in for a nightmare. Let's get back on track people.

Unvote

I blame myself for helping to enable this. I let my read on Aero interfere with making the best logical decision.

Obviously the best subjective play is for us to let Aero slide for around two days before we lynch him. If he flips town, then we scored a couple confirmed town or possibly a caught scum. If he flips scum then we still got to noose scum anyways.

There's every chance he'll be scum and just claim to be roleblocked every day or give us false reads, but we don't loose anything by waiting, just as long as we don't wait until we're in lylo.

[Mirhawk]

I don't want to lynch Tree, I'm not convinced he's scum.

What are the other options.

[PeregrineV]

I want to add this for no reason to

GAMEplay.

In the games that I've seen gunsmith, there is usually a specific reason for having it. Like, there is a Godfather. Or There is a scum doctor(I've never actually seen this), or there are multiple factions. Being that there are multiple factions, a gunsmith isn't automatically town.

Primary reason is to give false positives when vig or cop is investigated without overpowering the scumteam with Godfather. Possibly outs town power as scum, requiring a judgement call by the gunsmith.

[PeregrineV]

Ok now so reinoe how should I investigate Aero in the nb ? Why don't you show me how to investigate him, by investigating him yourself here in the thread. I will take notes if needed.

I think the above post confirms that there's 0 scumhunting going on in the neighborhood.

Can Aero & gameplay confirm this?

[PeregrineV]

So you just called them his buds?

This game is moving so quickly and is so disorganized that I would probably be fine lynching most players.

But vote texcat.

You haven't given any reasons for voting texcat since Post #772. Most of your other posts regarding him are "Vote texcat", which is no better than most of Oka's posts of "Why isn't Tree dead yet?". You also said in that same post that Oka can die too, and yet you're trying to get people to vote texcat when there's already an Oka wagon rolling. Can you explain to me why?

Bullshit. Either TSO or PV figured it out and told you.

Why do you think Pere is scum? I just ISO'd him and it doesn't look like he's doing too much, and hasn't posted anything since saying he needed to catch up, but nothing came out as exceptionally scummy to me.

Gameplay's got it.

My crumbs were structured in a manner where PV or TSO would have the best chance to catch it. There are some universal crumbs as well but Aero did not see those.

Scum do not have Daytalk. They may scheme in their QT thread at Night.

[PeregrineV]

Wouldn't that require him living past toDay, and giving us a wrong result, which is in and of itself only confirmable by lynching?

well if he's not an investigative town pr,
we probably have another one and it can check him out

Why should we out an investigative PR to lynch obvious scum?

You do realize, don't you, that if Aeronaut flips Gunsmith, you become obvious scum pushing for his lynch because frankly, day1, there is no reason to lynch a claimed PR.

[Titus]

He ain't flipping gs. Even if he was town, scum would not push for his lynch as mids require a methid to not follow the cop.

[Titus]

I don't buy into the claimed PR do not lynch Day 1.

[T S O]

catch
up

[PeregrineV]

I don't buy into the claimed PR do not lynch Day 1.

I subscribe to it for the most part, except under special circumstances.

If we are going to pick vanity wagons, then I prefer mine.

Vote: RoyalApe

[Titus]

I don't want to lynch Tree, I'm not convinced he's scum.

What are the other options.

Okra

[Titus]

I don't buy into the claimed PR do not lynch Day 1.

I subscribe to it for the most part, except under special circumstances.

If we are going to pick vanity wagons, then I prefer mine.

Vote: RoyalApe

Aero is tied for largest with four. It is not a vanity wagon.

[Elyse]

He ain't flipping gs. Even if he was town, scum would not push for his lynch as mids require a methid to not follow the cop.

You keep saying that and while I'm townreading you, there

is

scum motivation to push a town gunsmith. Any town lynch, especially a PR, is worth the price of admission for scum.

[T S O]

Titus, you specifically told us your scum game is based on being reckless.

[gameplay506]

He ain't flipping gs. Even if he was town, scum would not push for his lynch as mids require a methid to not follow the cop.

You keep saying that and while I'm townreading you, there

is

scum motivation to push a town gunsmith. Any town lynch, especially a PR, is worth the price of admission for scum.

I agree that pushing a claimed pr is not town motivational.

[shaddowez]

I actually rethought my theory about lynching Aero, and decided that we can lynch him D2 instead for better results, and don't need to wait for another lynch or mislynch to prove his claim.

If we lynch him today, we get absolutely zero information. If he's town it's a mislynch with no reads whatsoever, and probably the worst possible scenario. If he's scum and we mislynch a townie, we screwed up, but if he had never claimed there was a chance of that happening anyway. Since he hardclaimed and investigative PR, if he's town then scum will most likely kill him. If he is still alive on D2, he can tell us what he did N1 and what result he got. We then lynch him to see how he flips. If he told us he got no result and is town, he most likely got RBed/JKed. That gets us info that scum has an RB/JK, along with the fact that unless they have more than one, they wasted it on a GS instead of any other investigative role we may have, or a doctor, SK, or Vig if we have any. (I say wasted since a GS can hurt town by finding vigs and cops). If he gives us a result and flips town GS, that is someone to strongly consider, and should elicit a claim if need be. If he gives us a result and flips scum GS, we should seriously look into whoever he named. If he flips and isn't a GS, it was still just one day that we wasted.

This doesn't require any other PR outing themselves, and actually gives us the possibility of gaining us info without letting Aero just slide by for days on end. If we do have another investigative role and they decide to look into Aero and reveal on D2, that's on them but not necessary.

UNVOTE:

[Titus]

Titus, you specifically told us your scum game is based on being reckless.

Recless =\= Stupid.

[Titus]

He ain't flipping gs. Even if he was town, scum would not push for his lynch as mids require a methid to not follow the cop.

You keep saying that and while I'm townreading you, there

is

scum motivation to push a town gunsmith. Any town lynch, especially a PR, is worth the price of admission for scum.

No there isn't for a GS if scum know that. GS can be neutralized without a lynch so why take that risk.

I see y'all are hellbent on being stupid though.

[Aeronaut]

....
Alright, going to go into some non-gameplay mode for just a moment.

It's really fun being talked about like I'm some sort of prisoner who you're debating how to kill. Let's kill him today! Let's kill him tomorrow! Really, it's great. Keep that shit up.

First of all, everyone needs to be less aggressive and awful to eachother. There's literally no need to be calling people "Princess", saying each other are uneducated, and flat out saying "Fuck you". Seriously guys, I understand this game gets incredibly heated. But it's getting ridiculous, and it's turning me off the game. I won't replace out, but you all need to chill out and treat each other with common human courtesy.

-----
Back to gameplay mode.

I've noticed that there is a group of people forming who are basically just saying "Why isn't this person dead yet". Now I had already mentioned Oka, for literally only saying the same five words for fifteen pages. However, I've noticed that Aegor is doing basically the same thing with Texcat. Hardcore tunneling, I mean. Then we have Titus who admittedly is giving a lot of information, but hasn't given a read on anyone else in a very long time, and whose argument basically boils down to "Let's lynch Obscum Aero."

So I have questions for the three of you.

@Okapoka, what are your scumreads besides Tree?
@Aegor, what are your scumreads besides Texcat?
@Titus, what are your scumreads besides Obvscum Aeronaut?

You guys can answer whenever, especially Titus. I legitimately hope your back feels better.

[shaddowez]

Alright, since I'd rather see Aero lynched D2 than D1, I'm pretty sure I know where I want my vote to lie:

VOTE: notscience

He is posting a

lot

(he has almost 250 posts), but is posting almost no content. That's just about 10 pages of worthless nonsense. A good portion of his posts are one liners, and a decent number of them are just emoticons (which he admits in Post #1591). He's trying to appear active in the game without doing much, and his votes have either been purely sheeping or on the Aero wagon. His sheep vote is even on someone he believes to be town just to get help lynching someone he believes to be scum on another day, which if he is town is against wincon.

His first dozen posts are useless, randomly reading people as town for BS reasons. I understand this is RVS, but just adds in to what becomes random posting for no reason.
Post #231 - Naked vote on tree
A bunch more posts of absolutely no content, except to admit he's just sheeping Majiffy
Posts Post #715 - Post #721 have slightly useful info as they provide his reads on a few people, but with no content to back them up.
More useless posts, and then moved his vote back to Tree, who he admittedly thinks is town, just to get Majiffy to help get a lynch on D2.

I told you I have my own opinions

None of which have been thoroughly expressed as of yet.

Yes shit

I'm about to explain why my reads are better than everyone rlses

I mean give a readslist

(I really mean the former)

Readslist finally came almost 100 posts later with no evidence to back up his reads on most people.

Post #1140 actually includes some content and reasoning, but it's the first in over 100 posts to really do so, and is also after the Aero wagon was already rolling.
Post #1253 has some more content against Aero. I'm still of the Aero is most likely scum mindset, so this may actually seem to be more meaningful than it actually is because of that.

Basically nothing but fluff posts since that.

[Psyche]

ns is defined by fluff

[OkaPoka]

Wait wut

[Titus]

Aeronaut. My lynchable scum is you. I am not answering your question bc people might insist on me compromising which I have no intent of doing.

Shitttt

Derp

[OkaPoka]

Anyways scumreads are

Tree, NS, Gameplay, Farside, then Aero

[shaddowez]

ns is defined by fluff

That's not really a defense...if he's not doing anything useful, it's not in town's best interest to keep him alive.