Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)

[Newbie]

I doubt Riddleton is scum, I don't recall him taking any opportunity to hop off Victor. Day 1 lynches are bad for scum even if they hard bus as the "why aren't you dead? " question willl bite them in the arse eventually

This. I'm not saying that it isn't possible, but the way he went about it and so early in the game. I mean, yeah, he could've bussed, but you can say anyone in the game is bussing since we don't know for sure who's mafia and who isn't. Out of all the people on Victor's wagon, I just don't see him being the one that bussed.

Newbie, your opinion on Riddle?

I don't really agree about him bussing Victor, so therefore he looks town in my eyes for now. I will say he needs to do more this day phase, though. I may have to check again, but I don't remember him dropping the case on Malakittens that he claimed he would.

[wgeurts]

My long awaited post on everyone explaining everyone. It took longer due to water polo training and iPod keyboards suck.

Mathdino

He is my top town read, he's not jumping on chances he could get and is defending others making sure no rash decisions are made. Early game you could doubt it for town-cred however he's still playing the same.

45[/post]]^Not liking RVS isn't a scumtell though, if anything it's a noobtowntell IMO.

This is an early example of this and seems very town motivated. A scum could pull up a facade but eventually he'll have to drop it as to get a mis-lynch done.

He does have early suspicions on victor however this has no worth as it could be scum bussing. He even goes on to make a semi-serious vote on him. However he keeps his vote there for a long time and also continues to genuinely scum hunt. His thoughts seem to be very open in his posts and you can almost see his thinking pattern if you skim his ISO.

He unvotes Victor for something that I now see is generally scummy; mason fishing. There's so little scum motivation to be found behind his actions and that's why he's been town for me D1.

There isn't much else to comment on his play, his votes are consistent and don't sway easily, he's hunting still and making all his thoughts clear.

Malakittens

Mala kittens thoughts are harder to figure out however the motivations are clear. One of the first things by her which really looked town motivated to me was her 261 in which she tried to stop a wagon which was rapidly building against me. The town motivation for this would be clear however the scum one would be odd. Yes the scum could do it for town-cred however would gaining town-cred way up better than getting a quick easy mis-lynch?

That was what I thought, the read on me changed many times and the sudden change of read on VDA looks to me like bussing. Read these posts:

What am I posting a defence against that I haven't already done?!

I'm claiming vanilla town and I'll hammer myself to show scum are driving my lynch.

Yes, however whatever I say you'll lynch me anyway. Seriously, I'm town and I'd rather die quickly and give you info than let the scum further run the town.

VOTE: Wgeurts

Okay my loves. The wagon on Wge is bad and you all unvote. This is townflail and not scumflail

So there's a good chance that one of Wisdom/Wge is scum. Wisdom surprisingly doesn't feel town. Also I'm disliking his read on me because I think it's pure bullshit.

UNVOTE: Acyron

Wge would have to be really ballsy scum and be confident that his partners are good at playing scum to intentionally mason fish in thread.

Wisdom and wge will not be scum together. I could see Silver scum.

Is it really bad that I keep confusing TTH & BWMS' posts as one player.

Anyways townreads in no order {Mathdino, Finnlaw, TTH, BWMS} leaning town {N_M & Wge}

Wisdom explain why I should be townreading you?

Anyways townreads in no order {Mathdino, Finnlaw, TTH, BWMS} leaning town {N_M & Wge}

The only one I agree with is Mathdino, maybe TTH. Can you explain the rest?

Also remind me who you are scumreading and why.

FinnLaw because his posts reads to me like his posts did in the completed newbie game. He seems way too confident and not at all nervous that I feel that would come from a newb-scum.
BWMS is gut actually, but I liked the posts in the recent-day than I did when the game first started.
Wge is because I feel like he's acting too ballsy to be scum especially for newb-scum.
N_M is a mixture of gut and meta.

Malakittens:

I suspect you're not reading my posts given 1) you apparently think I'm a "he" and 2) your recent exchange with Wisdom regarding what I said about Constantine's post. That's alright, though. I'm not here to judge you for that.

Your answers to Wisdom's recent questioning, especially post 692 and post 697, leave a lot to be desired. First, there's the issue of your read on Wisdom. When you strip away all the out-of-game references that I cannot evaluate and get to the core of the case, I'm left with the "premature push" reason, which I completely don't understand. When should he have pushed you? How should he have pushed you? Should he have waited for later? Why and if so, when would that have been? I have no idea.

Referring back to post 697, why do you think Victor is scummy? Also, if you have a tell you want to use on him, why are you saying so? Isn't it counterproductive to show your hand this early? I don't know if you're just trying to weigh things or if you really don't have a tell on Victor and you're just procrastinating on taking a side.

Eh, I'm the worst person with pronouns. Unless I talk to you like daily or played in a shitton of games I'll incorrectly call everyone by he because that's what my mind is defaulted at. I'll get it right sooner or later. Don't take it personally.

I misread your whole exchange with constantine. I'm sorry, but I'm not a robot and I'm human. I have this bad habit of reading the thread from current posts backwards to what I have to catch up on.

Because he knows how to read me without actually having to push me, but his premature push feels like he's fishing for a certain reaction from me and I'm really not in the mood for it. I have this tendency to be like a calm kitten until you poke me a million times and then I bite. That's exactly what I feel like Wisdom is doing to me. He doesn't have to push me. He can read me off reactions to others which I feel he isn't doing. Maybe part of it is my fault because I'm not able to give this game my all because of working, but even then.

I have a tell on Victor that I don't believe he actually knows and I'm not sure even with my vague comment he will. I believe that the card is still in my control. I think Victor is scummy flat out, but as I said before I have no desire to push someone who's on V/LA and not able to response back. i think it's unfair to do and I refuse to do it.

VOTE: VDA

Anyways:

VDA is scum.
Newbie just gave me hibbyjibbies.
Bmws/mathdino/tth/Finn/mm are all town.
Wisdom im unsure.
sctH is probably town.
Riddle gutscum.

I forgot the rest so yah >_>

These are gun to my head type reads:

I'll explain further if I'm alive in D2.

Wisdom - null, but had to guess maaaaaaaaaaybe town
FinnLaw DukeC - prob town
wgeurts - likely town
St. Constantine The HermitThe Undertaker - was leaning town, but could be scum
Newbie - Gutscum
Malakittens - town
Riddleton SilverWolf - Leaning scum maybe~
Not_Mafia - Prob town
TellTaleHeart - prob town
VictorDeAngelo - Dead, but likely scum.
Mathdino - was leaning town, but that overreaction. I will mull that over after VDA's flip
blindmewithscience - likely town
acryon - prob scum

No, I don't want to explain my reads further, I'm in this ball of rage at the moment.

Although if Victor is scum, then Riddleton is prob town.

My lynch pool is this:

{Wisdom, BMWS, Riddleton, Wgegurts}

In that order.

Mala, any reasoning?

Welcome to the game, borkjerfkin.

You guys are posting wayyyy to fast. I step away for 5 minutes and a whole nother page

I did a vast meta research on VDA. He has a tendency to line up with scum partners like MathDino said and associate them with a townplayer. I have checked town games to see if he's done them there, but he has once, but when he did do it is was a vast difference.

I might be warming up to switch Riddle with you because I'm itching for a 1v1 and it's suprisingly one of those things I never want to do, but I'm in this mood to do it.

My lynch pool is this:

{Wisdom, BMWS, Riddleton, Wgegurts}

In that order.

This is an array of posts from her where my read jumps all over the place and where she starts to bus VDA when he starts receiving pressure. I now think if the chance arose for me being lynched again that she would be on it. There also isn't a terrible amount of scum hunting coming from this slot, just nice little comments. Going over her ISO I also feel that her posts aren't genuine. I dislike how she's dropped wisdom as well.

Constantine:

Village Idiot, nuff said. I'll explain this one more later.

Others are coming later.

[wgeurts]

I'll also explain Mala more, I'm thinking Mala and not-mafia as the scum team now.

[Newbie]

^
That's actually a pretty solid case.

unvote

[Riddleton]

Not Mafia is town. I'm vaguely familiar with his meta, and I know he's more active and talkative as scum, and lurks more as town.

[Riddleton]

To all the 'savvy' players out there, would you consider reading the game and/or checking my iso? See #1076... I said there it's possible for scum-Riddle to have made a contradiction when trying to compile an erranous case on his partner.

I don't understand how people are so willing to conaider the issue resolved... it isn't.

[Mathdino]

I doubt Riddleton is scum, I don't recall him taking any opportunity to hop off Victor. Day 1 lynches are bad for scum even if they hard bus as the "why aren't you dead? " question willl bite them in the arse eventually

This. I'm not saying that it isn't possible, but the way he went about it and so early in the game. I mean, yeah, he could've bussed, but you can say anyone in the game is bussing since we don't know for sure who's mafia and who isn't. Out of all the people on Victor's wagon, I just don't see him being the one that bussed.

Newbie, your opinion on Riddle?

I don't really agree about him bussing Victor, so therefore he looks town in my eyes for now. I will say he needs to do more this day phase, though. I may have to check again, but I don't remember him dropping the case on Malakittens that he claimed he would.

Noooope.

Not_Mafia, Newbie

, I sincerely hope you read the 2nd part of this post, because that really is what Riddlescum does. Seriously. He opens the game and writes a case on his partner if there's momentum for their lynch already.

Again, my point is not that he's scum because he wrote a case on scum. My point is

that does not make him town at

at all

. SilverWolf's actions and his trying to PL himself is what makes him scum.

Good post, wgeurts, I agree that the Mala case is actually kinda compelling. Waiting until the rest of your reads for further comments.

Edit: Goddamn it Riddleton, can you stop talking about yourself and write a case so we have direction in case you flip town?

[borkjerfkin]

To all the 'savvy' players out there, would you consider reading the game and/or checking my iso? See #1076... I said there it's possible for scum-Riddle to have made a contradiction when trying to compile an erranous case on his partner.

I don't understand how people are so willing to conaider the issue resolved... it isn't.

I'll say it again, I do not fucking understand the motivation for trying to get yourself lynched due to ostensible latent paranoia that only

you yourself

are purporting is affecting the game, because that is exactly what it seems you're trying to do.

[borkjerfkin]

Reading back my post on Wisdom sucked, he's still scum though, and if you read back d1 twilight it should be obvious why

Does this not rely on your own interpretation of Wisdom's interpretation of the gamestate since you're not reacting to anything he said post-hammer?

[Wisdom]

Yes the scum could do it for town-cred however would gaining town-cred way up better than getting a quick easy mis-lynch?

Definitely. Scum will most likely get a mislynch at the end of the day anyway, but they don't have as many chances to get towncred. Scum defending a townie that looks like they might be lynched is something that happens all the time

[Wisdom]

Going over her ISO I also feel that her posts aren't genuine

But didn't you say that her motivations are clear (and town)? Did you change your mind while reading?

[Mathdino]

Yes the scum could do it for town-cred however would gaining town-cred way up better than getting a quick easy mis-lynch?

Definitely. Scum will most likely get a mislynch at the end of the day anyway, but they don't have as many chances to get towncred. Scum defending a townie that looks like they might be lynched is something that happens all the time

If I can chime in, I want to note that Mala's defence was half-assed if anything. It's like she wasn't even trying to stop the wagon; she just decided to announce she wouldn't be on it by calling him town.

[Wisdom]

I'll also explain Mala more, I'm thinking Mala and not-mafia as the scum team now.

Don't think so. They voted me together, they defend each other.. it would be ridiculous if a scumteam was so obvious.

[Newbie]

I doubt Riddleton is scum, I don't recall him taking any opportunity to hop off Victor. Day 1 lynches are bad for scum even if they hard bus as the "why aren't you dead? " question willl bite them in the arse eventually

This. I'm not saying that it isn't possible, but the way he went about it and so early in the game. I mean, yeah, he could've bussed, but you can say anyone in the game is bussing since we don't know for sure who's mafia and who isn't. Out of all the people on Victor's wagon, I just don't see him being the one that bussed.

Newbie, your opinion on Riddle?

I don't really agree about him bussing Victor, so therefore he looks town in my eyes for now. I will say he needs to do more this day phase, though. I may have to check again, but I don't remember him dropping the case on Malakittens that he claimed he would.

Noooope.

Not_Mafia, Newbie

, I sincerely hope you read the 2nd part of this post, because that really is what Riddlescum does. Seriously. He opens the game and writes a case on his partner if there's momentum for their lynch already.

Again, my point is not that he's scum because he wrote a case on scum. My point is

that does not make him town at

at all

. SilverWolf's actions and his trying to PL himself is what makes him scum.

Good post, wgeurts, I agree that the Mala case is actually kinda compelling. Waiting until the rest of your reads for further comments.

Edit: Goddamn it Riddleton, can you stop talking about yourself and write a case so we have direction in case you flip town?

Okay. Well, I can't really deny the evidence in my face. I see your point now.

Also

Riddleton

, where is that case on Malakittens?

[wgeurts]

Actually wisdom could be scum with mala, they're both experienced and have both just let there push go. IF YOU THINK SOMEONES SCUM WHY WOULD YOU STOP PUSHING THEM?!?
It could all be a very good bus act, I must know however if the scum have day talk. Then it would make sense.
There's scum here: NM,Wisdom,Mala.
Further reads being made.

[Mathdino]

Mfw I made a spoonerism that actually makes sense in context.

"she wouldn't be on it" should be "we shouldn't be on it", although I guess both apply.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Village Idiot, nuff said.

This is funny coming from you

I wont stand by as others try to lynch riddleton. It is such an idiotic lynch, it's unbelievable. Actually, I'm pretty sure 90% of the players are complete newbs at this game, and it is absolutely dreadful having this become a mathdino dominated game. I do concede that I don't know this sites meta, but I know mafia in general. The silliness of everyone's argument and gameplay is astounding, and I'm baffled at these peoples ineptitude at recognizing scum.

Acyron isn't confirmed scum. Nothing in this game is confirmed, but I guarantee you town will win by lynching the two people off the wagon and the last two people on the wagon. Completely ignoring actual scum tells, which as wisdom said, and to a modern degree I accept, scum tells are circumstantial.
- Wisdom
- Riddleton
- Telltaleheart
^None of these people are scum.

If you're a mason, and anyone of these people, claim now...
- Mathdino
- Acyron
- Malakittens
- Newbie

These were the 2 people off the wagon and the last two people on the wagon. This would be a great time to self confirm some of the

most likely

scum candidates.
If Riddleton is scum, that means he hard bussed (led a lynch against a scum buddy), which is not only rare, but usually backfires.

[Wisdom]

^
That's actually a pretty solid case.

unvote

I really don't understand how you're thinking.
Is it "I default to voting Wisdom until someone says something I can agree with"?
And I still fail to comprehend whether you feel Mala is town or scum.

[wgeurts]

I'll also explain Mala more, I'm thinking Mala and not-mafia as the scum team now.

Don't think so. They voted me together, they defend each other.. it would be ridiculous if a scumteam was so obvious.

Mmm, unless that's what they want us to think.

[borkjerfkin]

I wont stand by as others try to lynch riddleton. It is such an idiotic lynch, it's unbelievable. Actually, I'm pretty sure 90% of the players are complete newbs at this game, and it is absolutely dreadful having this become a mathdino dominated game. I do concede that I don't know this sites meta, but I know mafia in general. The silliness of everyone's argument and gameplay is astounding, and I'm baffled at these peoples ineptitude at recognizing scum.

shut up

[borkjerfkin]

I'll also explain Mala more, I'm thinking Mala and not-mafia as the scum team now.

Don't think so. They voted me together, they defend each other.. it would be ridiculous if a scumteam was so obvious.

This post fucking sucks

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I'm compromising, and dropping my stance that we should only lynch people off the wagon, but in my dozens of games in experience, it is likely that the people I mentioned contain scum. Enough of this hardbus analysis though. It is a waste of breath to consider until later in the game.

[Riddleton]

Tth is dead

[Mathdino]

Village Idiot, nuff said.

This is funny coming from you

I wont stand by as others try to lynch riddleton. It is such an idiotic lynch, it's unbelievable. Actually, I'm pretty sure 90% of the players are complete newbs at this game, and it is absolutely dreadful having this become a mathdino dominated game. I do concede that I don't know this sites meta, but I know mafia in general. The silliness of everyone's argument and gameplay is astounding, and I'm baffled at these peoples ineptitude at recognizing scum.

Acyron isn't confirmed scum. Nothing in this game is confirmed, but I guarantee you town will win by lynching the two people off the wagon and the last two people on the wagon. Completely ignoring actual scum tells, which as wisdom said, and to a modern degree I accept, scum tells are circumstantial.
- Wisdom
- Riddleton
- Telltaleheart
^None of these people are scum.

If you're a mason, and anyone of these people, claim now...

- Mathdino
- Acyron
- Malakittens
- Newbie

These were the 2 people off the wagon and the last two people on the wagon. This would be a great time to self confirm some of the

most likely

scum candidates.
If Riddleton is scum, that means he hard bussed (led a lynch against a scum buddy), which is not only rare, but usually backfires.

What the actual fuck.

UNVOTE: Riddleton
VOTE: Constantine

Also, mfw his townreads are a dude who was pushing against the Victor wagon, the person he was SO SURE was scum at first and asked everyone to sheep him on, AND THE NK VICTIM.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

@Borkjerkin - Friendly advice, watch it. Being a jackass may be cool in some circles, but not this one.