Open 566: Murder on the Oriental Express (Game Over)

[Riddleton]

You should all vote CKD, trust me on this. For one, we're not leaving him to LyLo (easy mislynch) and for two, he's the most likely scum contender.

It's not worthwhile to think about who else you think is scum at this stage. Don't worry about it. Don't forget, if CKD flips town, 2 more people as well as CKD will die before LyLo so additional time spent quabbling about whether you think Farside, CDB etc is scum is wasted.

a) If you think CDB is scum, vote CKD
b) If you think GC is scum, vote CKD
c) If you think Farside is scum, vote CKD
d) If you think I am scum, vote CKD
e) If you think Titus is scum, vote CKD
f) If you think CKD is scum, vote CKD

[Green Crayons]

The post you just quoted explains why you hammering CKD would look scummy.

It's the second sentence. It's right there. I will repeat myself, but it's really right there. Second sentence. Can't be missed. But here it is, repeated:

You have called me scummy for setting up mislynches. That wonderfully horrific line of suspicion is based on you thinking CKD is town. You have said this today. You have said this recently today. Thus, if you were to hammer CKD after you have not only been calling him town today, but have been basing his town-ness to call me scum, you would look like you're rushing to end the day (for no reason) by getting rid of a player you think is town. Which would look scummy, not town.

[Titus]

unvote.

What happened to this 'I'm a threat in LyLo' stance?

are you against titus and CDB contributing before I go?

Stop this fucking nonsense now.

[Titus]

CKD, your setup sucks. Farside scum likely keeps me alive bc I have zero intent of voting her and she has painted me incorrectly as scum Tevisit.

[farside22]

The post you just quoted explains why you hammering CKD would look scummy.

It's the second sentence. It's right there. I will repeat myself, but it's really right there. Second sentence. Can't be missed. But here it is, repeated:

You have called me scummy for setting up mislynches. That wonderfully horrific line of suspicion is based on you thinking CKD is town. You have said this today. You have said this recently today. Thus, if you were to hammer CKD after you have not only been calling him town today, but have been basing his town-ness to call me scum, you would look like you're rushing to end the day (for no reason) by getting rid of a player you think is town. Which would look scummy, not town.

Is this you baiting me now?

[Green Crayons]

farside, our brains are operating on different wavelengths because I don't know what the hell you are on about.

[ChannelDelibird]

Looking over things tonight. I'll have a vote at the end of it.

[curiouskarmadog]

hey riddleton. how confident are you that I am scum?

how about this.

if I flip town, you provide everyone that link were you witnessed a situation you are referencing here, so people know that you are not lying.

The last time I witnessed scum do this, it was a similar situation. It was a scum win because he managed to WiFOM himself out of a lynch like CKD is doing.

and since I havent been hammered yet. for shits and giggles, provide that game link that is giving you that point of reference.

if I flip scum, you got nothing to worry about.

You want everyone to believe you are SO SURE I am scum...why not do this.


here.

vote CKD.

I will put myself at -1 again.


deal?

[curiouskarmadog]

(Insert Riddleton backpedal post here?)

[curiouskarmadog]

unvote.

What happened to this 'I'm a threat in LyLo' stance?

are you against titus and CDB contributing before I go?

Stop this fucking nonsense now.

which part, voting myself, wanting you and CDB to comment, or trying to figure out Riddle's motivations today?

[Riddleton]

if I flip town, you provide everyone that link were you witnessed a situation you are referencing here, so people know that you are not lying.

No. I'm not providing it to anyone. No ifs or buts. See here for why. If you want to think I'm lying about my off-site meta, then whatever floats you boat I suppose. I've no intention of 'proving' this.

[curiouskarmadog]

if I flip town, you provide everyone that link were you witnessed a situation you are referencing here, so people know that you are not lying.

No. I'm not providing it to anyone. No ifs or buts. See here for why. If you want to think I'm lying about my off-site meta, then whatever floats you boat I suppose. I've no intention of 'proving' this.

if I flip scum you dont have to...so what is your issue?

[Riddleton]

(Insert Riddleton backpedal post here?)

(insert CKD's "boo hoo I can't see Riddle's offsite meta. " post here)

[curiouskarmadog]

if I am scum, why the fuck would I care about your meta right now.

again, if I flip scum you got nothing to worry about.

so what is your issue?

[Green Crayons]

Riddle, did you play on the other site under the same handle as here? If not, then linking to the game without revealing your handle would not import your meta onto MS.

[Riddleton]

Yeah, same username.

[ChannelDelibird]

My internet picked a great time to start going slowly so this is a little sluggish. Up to end of page 93, gonna post this then get up to date, post stuff about that, then go back to look at scum lynches.

In the meantime:

CKD, I am starting to get really fucking irritated with your self-voting. If you're town, it's really fucking irresponsible. "Herp derp we mustn't lynch me at LyLo" is just such weak bullshit. Look how far you've got in this game without yet being lynched. Stop feeling so sorry for yourself and accept that you're not a nailed-on lynch, and actually vote for someone who could be scum from your perspective. This is the sort of behaviour that stops towns from capitalising on those back-to-back scum lynches for which we worked so hard. If you're scum, it's merely aggravating. If you're on my team then it's utterly infuriating.

[ChannelDelibird]

Well, two main things I picked up from the few pages since my last post: CKD looks townier (which, as above, only makes me angry) and I'm on board to consider GC's case on farside in a way that I wasn't before.

I'll start with CKD, as it's brief. This post, I think, is more likely to come from town than scum, someone who genuinely wants to figure out the game, even though I think that, as evidence, it's laughably, inadmissably bad.

GC asks me to consider farside as a buddy here, says as part of it that farside didn't have much towncred because she hard-defended Belisarius. However, I'm pretty sure that by then she was already widely townread as a result of Belisarius's interactions with her (and I'm sure that I'm not the only one who thought that at the time), so I'm not really sure how true that assertion is. I'll grant you, though, that it's kind of a limp justification for her scrambles vote but I also think that a town player who just really wanted to lynch acryon first would probably be entitled to a certain unenthusiasm. But, y'know, it's got me wondering.

This vote from farside is the first time in ages that I've really had a scumping from her. Coming, as it does, just after CKD votes GC and backing up, as it does, his terrible reasoning, it's kind of terrifying, because there's just enough of a GC backlash murmuring around that it looks awfully optimistic.

And then we have this. I'd been wondering as I came in and out of the thread to dodge posts and then catch up over the last few days what sort of reaction people would have to my absences. I had a vague theory that, in a game this dense, scum would prefer to duck out of a pages-long, wally argument by pointing out 'hey this guy's lurking' and farside kind of fits this - but it's just bizarre that she uses pointing it out as an excuse to attack GC, which is just WTF? As GC points out, hardly anyone has made a big deal of my absences Today, but only he's scummy for it?

As of right now, as far as I can tell the votes are 3-1-1 for CKD, GC and Riddleton, in that order, but I might be wrong. As it stands, I'd be happier getting onto a 2 with GC on farside than vote for any of those, but I want to do some of that rereading around the scum lynches before I commit.

[ChannelDelibird]

Uuuugggghhh internet so slow. I've got work in the morning and this just isn't moving quickly enough for me to reach any conclusions tonight. Gonna have to leave it for tomorrow. Don't lynch anyone until I'm done, especially not if it's yourself.

[farside22]

Well, two main things I picked up from the few pages since my last post: CKD looks townier (which, as above, only makes me angry) and I'm on board to consider GC's case on farside in a way that I wasn't before.

I'll start with CKD, as it's brief. This post, I think, is more likely to come from town than scum, someone who genuinely wants to figure out the game, even though I think that, as evidence, it's laughably, inadmissably bad.

GC asks me to consider farside as a buddy here, says as part of it that farside didn't have much towncred because she hard-defended Belisarius. However, I'm pretty sure that by then she was already widely townread as a result of Belisarius's interactions with her (and I'm sure that I'm not the only one who thought that at the time), so I'm not really sure how true that assertion is. I'll grant you, though, that it's kind of a limp justification for her scrambles vote but I also think that a town player who just really wanted to lynch acryon first would probably be entitled to a certain unenthusiasm. But, y'know, it's got me wondering.

This vote from farside is the first time in ages that I've really had a scumping from her. Coming, as it does, just after CKD votes GC and backing up, as it does, his terrible reasoning, it's kind of terrifying, because there's just enough of a GC backlash murmuring around that it looks awfully optimistic.

And then we have this. I'd been wondering as I came in and out of the thread to dodge posts and then catch up over the last few days what sort of reaction people would have to my absences. I had a vague theory that, in a game this dense, scum would prefer to duck out of a pages-long, wally argument by pointing out 'hey this guy's lurking' and farside kind of fits this - but it's just bizarre that she uses pointing it out as an excuse to attack GC, which is just WTF? As GC points out, hardly anyone has made a big deal of my absences Today, but only he's scummy for it?

As of right now, as far as I can tell the votes are 3-1-1 for CKD, GC and Riddleton, in that order, but I might be wrong. As it stands, I'd be happier getting onto a 2 with GC on farside than vote for any of those, but I want to do some of that rereading around the scum lynches before I commit.

First off I noticed green was talking about voting me and voted for CKD. It struck me as familiar and I noticed the same tendency the day before. He keeps pushing at me but votes for the person he listed. I also recalled he town read CKD at the end of day 4, which makes his vote on CKD even scummier.

Next I brought up your lack of comment toward GC because he has been the player to mention players that are not posting. He brought it up multiple times against me. He barely even registered calling you or called it scummy. It makes no sense to lay into me repeatedly as a scum tell and then back off on saying it about anyone else unless it is not a scum tell at all.

[curiouskarmadog]

Riddle, did you play on the other site under the same handle as here? If not, then linking to the game without revealing your handle would not import your meta onto MS.

what other site?

[Baezu]

Vote Count 5.05

Riddleton: (1) Titus
Green Crayons: (1) Farside22

(L-1)

Curiouskarmadog : (3) Riddleton, Green Crayons, Curiouskarmadog

Not Voting: ChannelDelibird

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-11-25 17:49:00)

Mod Notes:
None

[/area]

[farside22]

Titus and CKD: join me on the GC wagon.

There is nothing I read from GC today that he even remotely believes CKD is scum.
He is using riddle's desire and will most like push for my lynch. I see the set up and if you missed the implication please let me know so I can smack sense into you.

[Green Crayons]

Titus and CKD: join me on the GC wagon.

There is nothing I read from GC today that he even remotely believes CKD is scum.
He is using riddle's desire and will most like push for my lynch. I see the set up and if you missed the implication please let me know so I can smack sense into you.

For farside-town to have posted this, she would have to believe:

(1) EITHER

(A) It's impossible for town to have more than one scum suspect at a time; OR

(B) Town, in a non-LYLO situation, will never vote from their scum suspect pool a person they do not suspect the most from that pool (CKD), because nobody will join them in voting the person they do suspect the most from that pool (farside), and because the thread has indicated that it is willing to lynch outside of the scum suspect pool (Riddle, Titus, GC).


(2) Town only 100% believe in their votes, even when they admit that they are not voting for their #1 suspect.


(3) That the following posts do not actually indicate GC's basis for suspecting CKD, even if it is not a 100% confident vote:
- Post 1074
- Post 1654
- Post 1659
- Post 1662
- Post 1697
- Post 1723
- Post 1784
- Post 1797
- Post 1798
- Post 1991
- Post 2013
- Post 2018
- Post 2112
- Post 2113
- Post 2115
- Post 2120
- Post 2233
- Post 2246

[Green Crayons]

I'd like to here from cbd today. He's been pretty Mia today.
Of course I notice GC doesn't call him on this.
I wonder why?

Oh yes that completely reads like the shit you game me for 2 game days.

Oh wait no it doesn't.

Point farside.

Oh, and of course this is just a bullshit lie to justify her bad vote on me. I never suspected anyone for failing to post (or going V/LA). It has always been that farside was using an inordinate amount of "catchup posts" instead of just diving right into the game:

I'm not saying her V/LA is fabricated. I'm saying that going absent and then coming back with a serious of catch up posts -- and this is her habitual play this game, not a one-time event -- is aligned with scum play.

I'm phone posting, so can't link, but porochaz did the exact thing as scum in Oldie Mafia 2 (normal large).

Oh, I can link this now.

Oldie Mafia 2. The scum that was constantly doing catch up posts was porochaz. He had a legitimate excuse for his V/LA (funeral and other bad IRL experiences), but he kept doing posts like these: Post 444, Post 596, Post 676.

Also, I just got finished with a game where this happened again. Mini 1609. The scum that was constantly doing catch up posts was massive. Once again, a legitimate reason (no weeked access), but he kept doing posts like these: Post 2434, 2497, and Post 3336.

Once again, it's not so much that someone has V/LA, and then decides to make catch up posts. It's the heavy emphasis of using catch up posts, as it allows a person to look like they are providing the town with a lot of activity, but it isn't really all that substantive and useful for the town.

Of course, being V/LA was the predicate for farside relying heavily on her catch up posts, but it's the catch up posts and not her V/LA that is the suspicious part of her play for purposes of that line of suspicion. And as I pointed out when Riddle wanted me to do the work for farside, farside could have jumped in and made a (what would have been a pretty convincing) meta defense: that she has been doing similar catch up posts in all of her games.