Advance Wars UPick!--Game Over..?

[Cheetory6]

Whoops the last quote is from a scumgame.

Clearly this means that I'm innocent because I follow up on questions when I'm scum! Checkmate.

[Cheetory6]

Cheet is also a very reaction-heavy player in the game I’ve seen.

I haven't used reaction tests in a while because they're gimmicky and I only like using them early on D1s.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I didn't call your selfmeta scummy here, I was more just expressing that selfmeta isn't really a valid defense. I'm an idiot for using it too, but I fail to see how me being stupid makes me scum.

You were pretty confident in your reads even after having 4 misreads in a row.

I didn't call your selfmeta scummy here, I was more just expressing that selfmeta isn't really a valid defense. I'm an idiot for using it too, but I fail to see how me being stupid makes me scum.

This is false because if you read the quote I wasn’t actually defending myself from anything, so that first sentence is a lie.

It's fucking different though. You were asking someone who you thought was suspicious of you if they were scumreading you. I was trying to start conversation in both of those instances. This is fucking hard misrep dude.

No, see, the point in 887 is that I didn’t know whether or not STD was scumreading me, which is why I asked for clarification. You’ve done the same thing multiple times, so why would you use that as a reason to scumread me?

Explained reasoning behind not pushing a single line of questioning here. Said player I questioned in that game was someone who had no potential explanation for completely ignoring reading someone when I'd asked them to and they'd entirely ignored me. If you can't see the difference there then I don't even know what the fuck to tell you at this point.

There are a lot more quotes you’d need to explain then if you want to go down that path. You follow up on questions pretty hard in your towngames and you haven’t been doing that here.

This is a big game in which the deadline is winding down and I want flips to solidify reads.

What reads would a lynx flip solidify, pray tell? I think this is bullshit.

This is why applying meta too hard is bullshit because you're wrong. Lol. I honestly just want to get to L-2, claim, and if you don't believe me by then just be free from this game.

Why the defeatist attitude already?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

STD is the scummiest person to bandwagon this atm.
No engagement with me. He's just talking with orci about it and pushing forward his own terrible reasoning in a way that feels like he's trying to seem like he's contributing.
If I get lynched please give him shit D3.

I mean sure but meanwhile players have bandwagoned on before I even posted anything so why aren't you going after them?

[Flubbernugget]

Sorry lunchtime.

Anyway, VOTE: Flubber

My main problem with him is that in the neighborhood his reasoning for calling people scum is bad and he only posts in the neighborhood when he's being called out. Towards the beginning of D2 he accused another member of being scum based on POE. My problem with that was that he did the whole "I know I'm obviously town" thing which tends to make me lean scum on someone. On top of that he accused someone who really had no reason to be accused. Literally, his only reasoning was POE in a neighborhood that might not have any scum members in it.

Except I'm not scum reading that individual? I already said it was a fucked up attempt to elicit a reaction and is a moot point.

The other thing is that he hasn't posted in the neighborhood since calling out his POE target unless I specifically say that I think he's scum. He posted once after I said I would probably have a vote on Flubber but don't want to out the neighborhood, and another time about 30 min ago saying that he wants to out certain members of the neighborhood without really giving a reason. In between these times there's been conversation that everyone else in the neighborhood has participated in, including people's thoughts on certain posts and abilities that have been claimed throughout the day.

You have self-importance issues.

On top of that we get things like 105,106 where he blind votes Varsoon while saying he gets town points. 141 where he's just following along with the Varsoon wagon even though he gave him town points. The rest of the game day he didn't really do much except blind vote Mara then switch back to Varsoon and park there. He even admits to giving up on reading the rest of D1 in 967, and just leaves his vote on Varsoon.

Varsoon even said my town points comment was an asshole remark to a previous game and that I wasn't actually town reading him for not replacing out. But hey, facts don't matter when you gotta scumpaint someone.

And yeah I had trouble understanding the slip so I waffled. It got clearer in time and my vote went back to where it belonged.

He's also been useless today. We have everything between 1315 and 1392 which do nothing but derail any intelligent conversation that was occurring at that time. Because Orci asked him to talk about Saki and ABR and place a vote, he goes from calling Saki's post terrible in 1315, to blind voting for STD in 1316 to asking about ABR's Ceph read in 1317. Then he follows with a bunch of posts that end up cluttering the thread, don't explain anything, and end up moving the direction of the conversation towards what shitposting means.

So a misunderstanding between me and STD is a thread derail. I could have pushed a lot harder on the issue if I wanted to waste time.

A bad post doesn't make someone scum as far as saki is concerned, and if you didn't see Cephir as obvtown at that point we should have talked about that.

But in other news the strongest points of your argument make this lynch look more policy than scumhunting.

1607 he townreads wegurts and tells everyone to just leave that alone for now. 2021 and 2120 he takes a question from ABR about Honeybee, saying that he disagreed with some of the points in one of the posts, yet he doesn't explain what he disagreed with, townreads Honeybee, and then immediately changes gears to question Orci's defending of Mara. The only other posts are asking people rhetorical questions in 2173 and 2502.

I didn't think speculation on guts was pro-town.

If I only think I stated this I'll state it here. I saw one of Bookitty's posts town reading Honeybee, and glancing over it, I thought several points she made were wrong. But when I looked again there was only one point I could have argued as a null tell over a town tell, and had no refute to her other points. I wish I could have had a discussion about it, but it would have only been a circle-jerk, or more shitposting.

Truthfully, it's not one glaring things that points me towards Flubber, it's a lot of little things that just aren't helpful for town.

It's a couple of points like this that make me think you're trying to push me off as policy.

[Flubbernugget]

Also I just had to write a wall so fuck you for that too

[Cephrir]

I had a feeling SMP was town and sucked at explaining it. Go me!

I haven't digested anything else that just happened yet.

[Hostile Intent]

Jesus does orc scare the absolute shit out of me.



I'm liking where my vote is right now.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Whoops the last quote is from a scumgame.

Clearly this means that I'm innocent because I follow up on questions when I'm scum! Checkmate.

i mean sure but why do we do things as scum? because we try to look town to people.

when playing on your homesite others are familiar to you so they know what to expect from a towngame. they expect aggression (ie the quote i gave of some dude)

but here, with nobody to supposedly know your meta, you can let your guard down if you're scum. if you were town you'd continue to bite lines of questioning hard because that's how you scumhunt, but you'd have no reason to do it if you were scum

[Flubbernugget]

STD is the scummiest person to bandwagon this atm.
No engagement with me. He's just talking with orci about it and pushing forward his own terrible reasoning in a way that feels like he's trying to seem like he's contributing.
If I get lynched please give him shit D3.

Which you can't do now because??

[Bookitty]

SMP wrote:Also, in a large game, the players who post a ton without actually saying anything or clog up the thread do more damage than in a 13 player game.

Why is Flubber the best example of this?

I have a question for you on this, Cheetory. The quote you pulled in this post is in Post 1408, quite a significant ways back. I did an ISO of you and SMP here. He hadn't mentioned Flubber as the best example of this. Why did you mean by this?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Cheet is also a very reaction-heavy player in the game I’ve seen.

I haven't used reaction tests in a while because they're gimmicky and I only like using them early on D1s.

this doesn't fit the mold of my research. you push wagons heavily and do analysis afterwards and i feel like that's how you make sense of a lot of things, especially stale gamestates like the last few days have been.

STD is the scummiest person to bandwagon this atm.
No engagement with me. He's just talking with orci about it and pushing forward his own terrible reasoning in a way that feels like he's trying to seem like he's contributing.
If I get lynched please give him shit D3.

Which you can't do now because??

because std is being lynched today over my literal dead body

[Bookitty]

Er, WHAT did you mean by this?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

because std is being lynched today over my literal dead body

to moderate this statement a bit many people i'm not heavily heavily townreading are being lynched today over my literal dead body

it's just that STD is in most ppl's townpiles and with 2 days left a wagon on him would be rash and probably incorrect

[Bookitty]

Cheetory pushed me for answers to his questions and I think he was scumreading me at the time. I don't understand the different treatment of other people in that regard, though. I think he asked Cabd questions that weren't answered either.

@Orci: I wasn't questioning you, in case it wasn't clear. I was correcting a typo in my post where I said WHY instead of WHAT.

[notscience]

Did someone claim the neotank yet?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Cheetory pushed me for answers to his questions and I think he was scumreading me at the time. I don't understand the different treatment of other people in that regard, though. I think he asked Cabd questions that weren't answered either.

@Orci: I wasn't questioning you, in case it wasn't clear. I was correcting a typo in my post where I said WHY instead of WHAT.

i know i was just clarifying

Did someone claim the neotank yet?

our neighborhood did, yes

[notscience]

that's you+ffery+someone right?

[Cheetory6]

Why the defeatist attitude already?

Because I hate being in this game. This is easily the least fun game of mafia I've played in a really long time.

What reads would a lynx flip solidify, pray tell? I think this is bullshit.

Why do I need specific answers to this? The wagon on him could be informative, if he flips scum it could lead to associative tells and I don't know what else. I just feel like I'll be able to make more sense of things with a flip that I've been involved with at this point.

There are a lot more quotes you’d need to explain then if you want to go down that path. You follow up on questions pretty hard in your towngames and you haven’t been doing that here.

I follow up on specific questions pretty hard when I see an angle I want to pursue. If I like answers to things or don't see it going anywhere then I move on to something else. You telling me that I don't do that in my towngames?

I mean sure but meanwhile players have bandwagoned on before I even posted anything so why aren't you going after them?

I'm self-centered.

I didn’t know whether or not STD was scumreading me, which is why I asked for clarification

Do you seriously think "STD r u scumreading me?" is the same as me saying "yoh Alt, you haven't said much yet, read me". One is trying to see what people are thinking of you. The other was me clearly trying to start conversation with someone who hadn't done much in the game.

This is false because if you read the quote I wasn’t actually defending myself from anything, so that first sentence is a lie.

I already told you I skimmed hard on my first readthrough, so I don't know why you're assuming I'm lying about making mistakes. I'm playing clumsy. You've got me there. I really fail to see why that makes me scum.

i mean sure but why do we do things as scum? because we try to look town to people.

when playing on your homesite others are familiar to you so they know what to expect from a towngame. they expect aggression (ie the quote i gave of some dude)

but here, with nobody to supposedly know your meta, you can let your guard down if you're scum. if you were town you'd continue to bite lines of questioning hard because that's how you scumhunt, but you'd have no reason to do it if you were scum

Do you have meta on me replacing into a game? Do you have meta on me replacing into a game where I know almost none of the playerlist? Your example falls apart super fucking hard because you assume that I'm going to play town the exact same way when I'm trying to analyze shit that I wasn't directly a part of.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Because I hate being in this game. This is easily the least fun game of mafia I've played in a really long time.

tell me more. it seemed like you were doing fine before we dropped scumreads on you?

[Cheetory6]

Isn't it curious the parallels between his treatment of fuzzylogic in death note and his treatment of flubber here, even though I would argue they are the same amount of village idiot.

Also, in a large game, the players who post a ton without actually saying anything or clog up the thread do more damage than in a 13 player game. It's a lot harder to keep up and make reads when post after post is just filled with useless info.

I attached sentiment from first quote to second quote.
Look guys, I lied about SMP doing something. I'm mafia.

tell me more. it seemed like you were doing fine before we dropped scumreads on you?

mara replacement was dumb.
ffery and albert suspicions being derailed by IRL stuff is demotivating.
lynx replacement stalled things.
shitty points and endless back and forth with you is annoying.
half the playerlist is doing fuck all.
I've made a shit ton of mistakes.
Yeah. having a blast here.

[Cephrir]

^not inspiring me with confidence

[Cheetory6]

Vote for me then. Jesus.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Why do I need specific answers to this? The wagon on him could be informative, if he flips scum it could lead to associative tells and I don't know what else. I just feel like I'll be able to make more sense of things with a flip that I've been involved with at this point.

Here’s lynx’s iso (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go)
Tell me what a town flip might indicate, and what a scum flip might indicate.

You need specific answers to this because I don’t think a lynx flip would solidify any reads.

I follow up on specific questions pretty hard when I see an angle I want to pursue. If I like answers to things or don't see it going anywhere then I move on to something else. You telling me that I don't do that in my towngames?

So you’re telling me you haven’t seen any angles to pursue this game?

I'm self-centered.

I don’t follow

Do you seriously think "STD r u scumreading me?" is the same as me saying "yoh Alt, you haven't said much yet, read me". One is trying to see what people are thinking of you. The other was me clearly trying to start conversation with someone who hadn't done much in the game.

What about the second quote where you say “ppl should give opinions on me cos I’ve posted a lot”? How can that not be construed as trying to see what people are thinking of you?

I already told you I skimmed hard on my first readthrough, so I don't know why you're assuming I'm lying about making mistakes. I'm playing clumsy. You've got me there. I really fail to see why that makes me scum.

I mean sure but then this brings us back to the question where both of us self-meta’d, and you called me scum for it when it’s something you do in the same situation as town.

Do you have meta on me replacing into a game? Do you have meta on me replacing into a game where I know almost none of the playerlist? Your example falls apart super fucking hard because you assume that I'm going to play town the exact same way when I'm trying to analyze shit that I wasn't directly a part of.

Admittedly no, and this has been an issue I’ve been bringing up in our neighborhood. I was toying with the idea of waiting until day 3 to observe longer how you act when you are all caught up in the game. Ultimately I disliked that flubber was SMP’s target so I decided to strike this case up to see how you might respond.

[SMP]

Sorry lunchtime.

Anyway, VOTE: Flubber

My main problem with him is that in the neighborhood his reasoning for calling people scum is bad and he only posts in the neighborhood when he's being called out. Towards the beginning of D2 he accused another member of being scum based on POE. My problem with that was that he did the whole "I know I'm obviously town" thing which tends to make me lean scum on someone. On top of that he accused someone who really had no reason to be accused. Literally, his only reasoning was POE in a neighborhood that might not have any scum members in it.

Except I'm not scum reading that individual? I already said it was a fucked up attempt to elicit a reaction and is a moot point.

No, you scum read that individual at the time, then when you got called out you retreated back by saying you were trying to get a reaction and to forget about it.

The other thing is that he hasn't posted in the neighborhood since calling out his POE target unless I specifically say that I think he's scum. He posted once after I said I would probably have a vote on Flubber but don't want to out the neighborhood, and another time about 30 min ago saying that he wants to out certain members of the neighborhood without really giving a reason. In between these times there's been conversation that everyone else in the neighborhood has participated in, including people's thoughts on certain posts and abilities that have been claimed throughout the day.

You have self-importance issues.

Self-importance issues? You posted twice since you scum read that one individual. The first time you quoted me, the 2nd you asked if the neighborhood could be outed without mentioning a certain person. The big deal that you conveniently didn't talk about is that you didn't talk or discuss at all anything that has been discussed in the neighborhood.

On top of that we get things like 105,106 where he blind votes Varsoon while saying he gets town points. 141 where he's just following along with the Varsoon wagon even though he gave him town points. The rest of the game day he didn't really do much except blind vote Mara then switch back to Varsoon and park there. He even admits to giving up on reading the rest of D1 in 967, and just leaves his vote on Varsoon.

Varsoon even said my town points comment was an asshole remark to a previous game and that I wasn't actually town reading him for not replacing out. But hey, facts don't matter when you gotta scumpaint someone.

And yeah I had trouble understanding the slip so I waffled. It got clearer in time and my vote went back to where it belonged.

A scumpoint is a scumpoint. If you weren't townread flopping on Varsoon then you blind voted for him based on other's reasoning.

He's also been useless today. We have everything between 1315 and 1392 which do nothing but derail any intelligent conversation that was occurring at that time. Because Orci asked him to talk about Saki and ABR and place a vote, he goes from calling Saki's post terrible in 1315, to blind voting for STD in 1316 to asking about ABR's Ceph read in 1317. Then he follows with a bunch of posts that end up cluttering the thread, don't explain anything, and end up moving the direction of the conversation towards what shitposting means.

So a misunderstanding between me and STD is a thread derail. I could have pushed a lot harder on the issue if I wanted to waste time.

A bad post doesn't make someone scum as far as saki is concerned, and if you didn't see Cephir as obvtown at that point we should have talked about that.

But in other news the strongest points of your argument make this lynch look more policy than scumhunting.

Yea, pretty much. There were 100 posts dedicated to your vague random posts and then the definition of shitposting. What about this is a policy lynch exactly?

1607 he townreads wegurts and tells everyone to just leave that alone for now. 2021 and 2120 he takes a question from ABR about Honeybee, saying that he disagreed with some of the points in one of the posts, yet he doesn't explain what he disagreed with, townreads Honeybee, and then immediately changes gears to question Orci's defending of Mara. The only other posts are asking people rhetorical questions in 2173 and 2502.

I didn't think speculation on guts was pro-town.

If I only think I stated this I'll state it here. I saw one of Bookitty's posts town reading Honeybee, and glancing over it, I thought several points she made were wrong. But when I looked again there was only one point I could have argued as a null tell over a town tell, and had no refute to her other points. I wish I could have had a discussion about it, but it would have only been a circle-jerk, or more shitposting.

Why even bother bringing it back up then?

Truthfully, it's not one glaring things that points me towards Flubber, it's a lot of little things that just aren't helpful for town.

It's a couple of points like this that make me think you're trying to push me off as policy.

Please, tell me what's policy about this.

Also I just had to write a wall so fuck you for that too

Terribly sorry you had to participate.