micro 429: m9++. epilogue.

[davesaz]

And is that a thing in micros? Haven't played one before.

[davesaz]

Did the game have a night start?

[davesaz]

VOTE: mykonian

[davesaz]

Really, L-2 already?

[davesaz]

sordros looks like scum caught for the wrong reasons.

Well, there is that too. But town could panic.

[davesaz]

I don't see how he can have a cop guilty, given it's a day start. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it's a gambit. As scum he could soft claim cop, hoping that someone counters. If someone counters he comes back and says it was a big joke, calls them stupid for countering, and mea culpas to accidentally outing the PR. He already soft claimed joke BTW. If nobody counters, and his soft claim target jumps like a scared rabbit, maybe he gets a free mislynch.

It could be a RVS joke, in which case mykonian and TierShift look pretty darn scummy. Doubt that it's both of them though, it would be suicidal for both to jump in.

[davesaz]

I have 4 completed games here and 3 finished but still ongoing. Why do you want to know more than that?

[davesaz]

@Tier, I already agreed the reaction was cause for concern, in 29.

@myko, perhaps you recognize the avvy? But I don't recognize yours. Have you played elsewhere as well?

Pedit @Willow, I understood the possibilities and didn't knee-jerk vote you once the wagon started for precisely that reason.

[davesaz]

Right, but you also said town could panic as well.
You effectively refuse to give an opinion on sor.

So, are you going to vote him, or call him town?

It's not a question of believing or not believing the case. I don't know if we have all the information we can get before going to L-1.

[davesaz]

If I were scum, I'd vote without a second thought. It's a good bus position of sordros is my buddy and I'm also reasonably safe if it's a mislynch with 3 plausible scum on the wagon ahead of me. So someone needs a brushup on logic there.

There are two likely answers here.

a. sordros is scum, and mykonian and TierShift both got the point of Willow's play but acted like the claim was real for inexplicable reasons. Or they didn't get the fact that it wasn't a real cop guilty but stumbled onto the correct wagon.

b. sordros is town. One of mykonian and TierShift is opportunistic scum hoping to get a quick mislynch. Ordinarily I would think mykonian is the clear favorite because TierShift kept engaging, but there is also TierShift pressing really hard to vote now. Scum TierShift could by trying to get me to take the bait so that a scum buddy can hammer. It's very unlikely they are both scum.

A less likely option is that it's Willow who got two townies to bite and is looking for one more.

There is even the possibility that sordros and the whole wagon are town. There are still 4 other players and it's easy enough for two of them to be scum.

Willow, BRantz, and Vyse were all just in a newbie with me, where I did due diligence before acting. Willow, you of all people know that I think about it even when it's blindingly obvious. It's about being

really

sure. And by waiting I am getting more information, which is good.

[davesaz]

Sure it does, lots of information. I already got some. Voting will give some too.
Right now I'm finding out that either I'll be the only one, or there will be someone is willing to hammer but is unwilling to L-1.
I'm finding out you want this really bad.

VOTE: sordros

[davesaz]

Fine, whatever.

I bet there's scum in one of those four.

UNVOTE:

[davesaz]

VOTE: TierShift

Town don't lie, this vote parks.

[davesaz]

Why did you lie?

[davesaz]

I'm town, but lynch me if you must.

[davesaz]

Wonder how long it will take this site to recognize that an honest player can be town. Read what I posted that way and tell me how it's scummy in any way.

[davesaz]

One of the 4 was sordros, Willow, myko, TierShift. I voted TierShift on principle that it was pretty scummy to lie about being serious about sordros, just to try to bait me into voting.

I was totally serious about my vote on sordros to L-1. There were some aspects of sordros's reaction that made me think scum, and I did believe that Willow could claim like that in order to try to provoke a response. There was no bowing to pressure involved, and I was actually working out scenarios like I said I was.

I was also serious about the scenario where Willow could be scum, joking a cop claim to try to get a counter.

And myko's approach to the wagon could be the one scum aiming to be there when the 2nd one hammers. Myko can say he was just playing along with the joke, and the hammer can say they believed either me or Tier whichever is more plausible.

I'm nearly certain the other scum is outside those 4.

[davesaz]

Now, I suggest unvoting before scum wake up and see they have a mislynch on a silver platter.

[davesaz]

BTW, I haven't counted votes, so don't know if it's really L-1 or Cyrus trying to spook me into claiming.

[davesaz]

On the unvote, I planned to switch votes at the time but then couldn't decide who to switch to.

Didn't I just say that Willow's joke / pseudo claim puts him in the possible scum pile? I was more upset with Tier at the time. Willow's more likely, TBH.

[davesaz]

But I'm in no hurry to switch. Mustn't look like I'm bowing to pressure.

[davesaz]

I'll be blunt here, because it's bugging the shit out of me.

I can't see

ANYTHING

that I've done as the

SLIGHTEST

bit scummy. It is textbook town.

WTF is wrong with all of you?

[davesaz]

These posts should be enough. That they are not boggles the mind. The only way to read this and see scum is to ignore the likelihood the poster is honest, or to be scum yourself.

Explain please.

If I were scum, I'd vote without a second thought. It's a good bus position of sordros is my buddy and I'm also reasonably safe if it's a mislynch with 3 plausible scum on the wagon ahead of me. So someone needs a brushup on logic there.

There are two likely answers here.

a. sordros is scum, and mykonian and TierShift both got the point of Willow's play but acted like the claim was real for inexplicable reasons. Or they didn't get the fact that it wasn't a real cop guilty but stumbled onto the correct wagon.

b. sordros is town. One of mykonian and TierShift is opportunistic scum hoping to get a quick mislynch. Ordinarily I would think mykonian is the clear favorite because TierShift kept engaging, but there is also TierShift pressing really hard to vote now. Scum TierShift could by trying to get me to take the bait so that a scum buddy can hammer. It's very unlikely they are both scum.

A less likely option is that it's Willow who got two townies to bite and is looking for one more.

There is even the possibility that sordros and the whole wagon are town. There are still 4 other players and it's easy enough for two of them to be scum.

Willow, BRantz, and Vyse were all just in a newbie with me, where I did due diligence before acting. Willow, you of all people know that I think about it even when it's blindingly obvious. It's about being

really

sure. And by waiting I am getting more information, which is good.

Sure it does, lots of information. I already got some. Voting will give some too.
Right now I'm finding out that either I'll be the only one, or there will be someone is willing to hammer but is unwilling to L-1.
I'm finding out you want this really bad.

VOTE: sordros

One of the 4 was sordros, Willow, myko, TierShift. I voted TierShift on principle that it was pretty scummy to lie about being serious about sordros, just to try to bait me into voting.

I was totally serious about my vote on sordros to L-1. There were some aspects of sordros's reaction that made me think scum, and I did believe that Willow could claim like that in order to try to provoke a response. There was no bowing to pressure involved, and I was actually working out scenarios like I said I was.

I was also serious about the scenario where Willow could be scum, joking a cop claim to try to get a counter.

And myko's approach to the wagon could be the one scum aiming to be there when the 2nd one hammers. Myko can say he was just playing along with the joke, and the hammer can say they believed either me or Tier whichever is more plausible.

I'm nearly certain the other scum is outside those 4.

[davesaz]

I agree with myko that Dave's self-destructing is weak scum play, especially since he basically blames Tier for his vote on Sordros in post 93.

That's quite a misrep. The 2nd paragraph of that post says my scum read on sor was and still is real. The 1st paragraph relates to TierShifts motivation, not mine.

[davesaz]

Saying that TierShift was

trying

to bait me does not mean that he was successful in doing so. He could only be "successful" if I wasn't going to vote. Which it's clear that I was, all you have to do is look at the rest of my posting.

It's a comment on what Tier was trying to do. I strongly suggest not falsely calling me a liar again.

Some of you are assuming that I was manipulated, and overlook the reality that I was using the event to scum hunt too. That is also evident in my posting

before

the vote.

Pedit: I think I already posted a reason for the unvote. I was going to immediately vote one of the 3 on the wagon before me, but then couldn't decide which of you was the most scummy. Why is the unvote relevant?

Pedit2: Because so many of you are so scummy that I don't know which one is the worst.

[davesaz]

Regarding Willow, I posted scenarios for Willow as scum and for him as joking town. I think the scum one is plausible but not certain.

[davesaz]

wait dave I don't understand you
Who are the 4 people you constantly talk about and why do you group them together?

When I saw this question I wondered if maybe some of my posts are not going through.
93

[davesaz]

oooh, there's a wagon?

vote: vyse

Are you trying to look scummy on purpose? I'm sure we can find some rope that fits, if you insist.

[davesaz]

I saw that post, but it doesn't explain why you chose those 4.

I expect to find one scum in {sordos & his wagon (minus myself)} and one scum in {everyone else}. Right now it's just a working hypothesis.

The reason for the split is simple. The 3 on the wagon {Willow, myko, Tier} could be opportunistic (sor town) or incredibly lucky (sor scum). The other scum being off the wagon is based on a pretty simple idea too, staying the heck away from the fireworks so they can be opportunistic based on the fallout.

Might my split hypothesis be wrong? Of course, we're still relatively early in D1. But it makes a really convenient way to analyze and the number of players being small is really conducive to using that kind of logic to organize the hunt.

[davesaz]

Busy day today, hope to analyze more tomorrow.

[davesaz]

Compare my deliberation in the last day of this game to my analysis of the Sordros wagon. I can't provide a scum sample, because I haven't rolled scum yet.

[davesaz]

At this point I'm so confused I'm just hoping for someone other than you to town read me so I can sheep.
I can't make my town any more obvious than it already is, and everyone who scum reads that is questionable.

[davesaz]

Why would scum make that kind of post?

[davesaz]

I've said this before but don't remember if the game is completed or not.
Too many people on this site have trouble recognizing brutal honesty from town.

And Tier, yes I know it's self meta. Stuff it.

[davesaz]

@Tier

What do you make of this?

VOTE: Dave

None of this curtailing to pressure so easily was present in the other game, and the weird waffly politiciany evasive responses are bad aswell

I never claimed cop. My post just had some weird formatting issues.

#lurking

[davesaz]

I have a strong opinion about it btw.

[davesaz]

dave, now would be a good time to start talking about yourself. Who are you?

I have 4 completed games here and 3 finished but still ongoing. Why do you want to know more than that?

because I care about you <3

BTW I never really thought this was satisfactory, but had more pressing issues to attend to.

[davesaz]

Plus, this isn't a newbie game so I doubt anybody would quickhammer.

Right, but you also said town could panic as well.
You effectively refuse to give an opinion on sor.

So, are you going to vote him, or call him town?

It's not a question of believing or not believing the case. I don't know if we have all the information we can get before going to L-1.

So you would vote him if it were not for it being L-2?

Simple, you should only worry about putting someone at L-1 on day 1 if that person is your scum buddy or you know it will be a mislynch(ie you are scum and know the person is town and you are trying to white knight). My point about quick hammering is that outside of super newbie players, it isn't going to happen, a quick is almost an auto lynch for that player the next day, so you shouldn't worry about that. And I know I have been not too active here, busy at work, but I try to read up a bit when I can and there has been not much that other Dave has said that makes me think my vote isn't well placed.

Especially when he said that we must remove him from L-1 lest scum quick hammers lol.

You make a huge assumption about background knowledge on site meta. If someone had played mostly on a site with 48 hour day cycles and highest vote total lynched, that person may not be aware that quick hammerers get lynched. Nor have I seen any evidence that this is even true, in one game someone hammered without much (if any) warning, and was not scum read for it at all. So from observed results, scum can hammer "quickly" and get away with it.

[davesaz]

@Cyrus/Vyse: So I was waiting for Willow to get back before commenting on the wagon, and now get home from work to find two more pages (which is a hell of a lot faster than anything progressed in the newbie game I just finished, which I like). I wanted to see what Willow had to say about the wagon/speculation around his first post because it influences what people are doing on the wagon. So here are my reads on all of that.

Willow's response was essentially a non-response. Did you get anything from that?

Sordros: I don't find his initial reactions scummy, I like that he is trying to create dialogue, and gain information. But after failing to do that I find it kind of strange how he just sort of completely changes tactics and says he is okay with all of it. It seems very strange, but I don't know that it is scummy. Nullish leaning town for now.

And faded away. Updated thoughts?

mykonian: He was on the wagon, while actually apparently trying to distract from it by engaging dave about completely irrelevant things, and seems to have no interest in scum hunting at all. Seems fairly scummy so far to me.

I typically find the use of irrelevant things to be very scummy

Tier: I like Tier for actually trying to push the game, get people talking, and get more information out in the open. That being said, I'm not sure I believe that the whole thing was a reaction test for him. I like the pressure he put on dave, but am uncertain about the immediate unvote afterward. Null for now.

Do you see a difference between how Tier's unvote and mine were treated?

Willow: This play is pretty much in line with how he played as town in the newbie game I was just in with him, so I like that. He can be town for now.

See above question. I don't remember Willow fading at all in the newbie game. Would this prompt an update from you?

Dave: Also is playing a lot like he did as town in the newbie we were just in, but he didn't bend to people pressuring him in that game like he just did to Tier. Mildly scummy for now.

I never saw a reasonable explanation of how it was bending to pressure at all. If you subtract thoughts about the pressure and look strictly at the deliberative posting style, what do you get?

Vyse: Vyse seems town so far, but his play is similar to the newbie game where he was scum, and I was town reading him most of the way there until he defended his scum buddy until she died. Mild town read for now.

Vyse has since come under attack. What are your thoughts on that?

[davesaz]

DAVE DO SHIT INSTEAD OF SELF META BULLSHIT

You're not the boss of me.

I know my alignment is town. I can get valuable information from whether people recognize similarities to other games I'm town. IMO scum have done us a favor by choosing me as lynch bait.

[davesaz]

3. What is the point of you commenting on my myko thoughts? I voted him in that very same post, it feels like you are trying to manipulate what I did but I don't know how or why.

My comment basically gave a myko read.

4. Tier's unvote and your unvote were very different, thus the different reactions? I don't know how you could think they were the same?

How are the different? They're both unvotes, from a wagon that we decided wasn't happening right then. Looks the same to me.

5. Very unhappy willow is lurking, but there isn't a lot I can do about it right now, I think there are much better choices today.

So myko is more scummy than Willow, because myko is currently active and Willow isn't?

6. This is what happened. You said I'm not voting until I am sure a bunch of times, then finally said Fine I'll vote. Tier unvoted and said it was a reaction test, and then you basically immediately unvoted. How is that not bowing to pressure?

Characterizing it as bowing to pressure implies I would not have done the same thing without the pressure. This is incorrect. I would have done the exact same thing if Tier had said nothing other than the read and vote, with the exception that I would not have posted as many times because there would have been nothing to respond to. I saw circumstances, applied logic (I have a scum read which matches the read of others who appear trustworthy therefore it's correct), took what I thought was the right action.

When Tier unvoted, I was pissed. Really pissed, that it was never real to begin with. I wrote a big post ripping him up one side and down the other, almost posted it, and then trimmed it back to the post that had the unvote.

[davesaz]

Reads:

Willow: Probable scum. Whether a joke, role fishing, or whatever, the sequence of his play does not make sense for town. The personality I've seen from the other game and his statement in that game that it's an unrevealed alt account just add to the read.

Mykonian: Possible scum through negative association if Willow is town.

TierShift: Leaning town, accumulated gut read. Need to review to see if he's interacting the way the gut read would expect, or if I missed something.

VysePresident: Probable town

Cyrus: Possible scum, lack of town direction from what I remember. May upgrade to null on a reread.

Sordros: Possible scum laying low after having survived an improbably accurate and close early wagon.

FuDuzn: Possible scum, opportunistic entrance after the lines were already drawn and doesn't seem to be adapting to changes in the flow.

BRantz: Null, have seen some things on both sides of the equation and can't decide which side is stronger.

Too many possible scum reads, so it obviously needs to be narrowed down. Having 2/8 lurkers is not helpful. Having Willow apparently do it on purpose, and the way that he's approaching doing it on purpose, is muddying at least 2 other reads.

[davesaz]

I never said myko was more scummy than willow recently. Way to try and put words in my mouth. Myko is no longer in my top 3 scum reads as of 156. Hence why I changed my vote elsewhere.

I put a ?, and it's a misrep to say that I tried to put words in your mouth.
Putting the same question again, which is more scummy Willow or Myko.

[davesaz]

I can't help but notice you are still voting the person you have a town read on.

Unvoting is scummy.
Vote hopping is scummy.
Leaving your vote is scummy.
Waiting to decide where to vote is scummy.

Have I hit them all?

[davesaz]

Also dave way to ignore the parts of that post that were actually relevant to my read on you.

I think I'm just going to stop caring about your read. If the literal truth (already stated multiple times) does not convince you then nothing will, and I'm wasting my time.

[davesaz]

Putting the same question again, which is more scummy Willow or Myko.

[davesaz]

Putting the same question again, which is more scummy Willow or Myko.

Do you even read what I write?

Is it so hard to just answer?

[davesaz]

You keep using this word truth. I do not think it means what you think it means.

When someone tells you what they are thinking, that can be either the truth or a lie.
You may think their opinion is correct or incorrect. It is a major logical fallacy to assume a differing opinion ("incorrect") is a lie.

[davesaz]

My mistake.

Other than me, who would you like to lynch and why?

[davesaz]

I absolutely do think that Willow's RVS joke, if it even is a joke,

could

make sense as a scum tactic.

• It could result in the real cop counter claiming to get the scum. This may even end up as a fished role and not being lynched for it, if he responds to the counter with "hey it was just a joke" successfully. It is low probability that the cop will actually counter, so risky for scum, but see the next point as well.
  
• Making a joke like that could result in at least some townies reading him as town, for two reasons. They may legitimately believe it's a real role crumb, and they may think it's unlikely that scum would go so far. Regardless of the reason, it is a benefit for scum if more people town read it than not.
  
• Gullible townies might go along with it and actually wagon the fake target. With a ready-made defense of "hey it was clearly a joke", scum might get a risk-free mislynch opportunity.

By itself, I do not think it would be scummy enough to result in a lynch. The pattern of other behavior, in particular the blatant inactivity, is needed to evolve it to a real scum read.

[davesaz]

The big problem is that there isn't much else to comment on.

[davesaz]

You do realize that doing so would be a scum tell, because it's bowing to pressure.

[davesaz]

It's 2:30AM for me, so it will have to be tomorrow at the earliest.

[davesaz]

UNVOTE:

Must be a lot of people with unofficial V/LA due to holiday stuff. Clearly too many quiet ones for them all to be scum.

[davesaz]

Kinda funny how so many players from the last game are converging here.

[davesaz]

I have to see more of prohawk. I don't think you should be looking at fuduzn right now, as per previous post again.

I'm having trouble finding why we don't want to look at FuDuzn, could you point that out?

@Vyse, I was kinda thinking we might want to see the replacements post and see if/how that changes things.

[davesaz]

ProHawk posts 265, omits Vyse from the general reads post, says Vyse is in the list of 3 lynchables, and votes him.
This strikes me as a bit manufactured, as there has been plenty of other scummy material to choose from, mine included.

While it feels nice that he town reads me, it feels a little trappy, like he's trying to win over a follower.

I'm not ready to accept him as obvious town. Also the quick gut town reads (mykonian, FuDuzn) could easily be an attempt to get folks to accept a scumbuddy as obvious town.

This doesn't result in a scum read per se, but it has me thinking I should take a very guarded approach with him.

[davesaz]

I want to vote at least 4 people in this game.

I'll sheep that.

[davesaz]

Will post some more, but dropping this now so that I don't end up walling too much.

What do you think of the ProHawk/TierShift and ProHawk/VysePresident interactions?

[davesaz]

We're doing a Christmas dinner for 18 tomorrow, so I may be spotty at best for 24 hours or so.

[davesaz]

I've played with hydra TTH before, it will be interesting to see what she's like without Anti. She pulled off a SK win at LYLO recently and I(watching from the sidelines) had her/them as least suspicious.

I don't have a town read on BRantz, so he'd be someone I'd be willing to compromise on. I really need to re-read a bunch of stuff, especially the Willow slot to see if it became town.

[davesaz]

You didn't ask for opinions on both sides, but I'd disagree. I don't see anything from FuDuzn that would make him such a strong town read to be unlynchable.

[davesaz]

I have to see more of prohawk. I don't think you should be looking at fuduzn right now, as per previous post again.

I'm having trouble finding why we don't want to look at FuDuzn, could you point that out?

@Vyse, I was kinda thinking we might want to see the replacements post and see if/how that changes things.

You didn't ask for opinions on both sides, but I'd disagree. I don't see anything from FuDuzn that would make him such a strong town read to be unlynchable.

You didn't ask for opinions on both sides, but I'd disagree. I don't see anything from FuDuzn that would make him such a strong town read to be unlynchable.

but then you are the one who has trouble getting his eyes open.

If you can't point to something that makes FuDuzn unquestionably town, then I suggest you quit telling people not to look at him.

[davesaz]

I want to see what TTH posts, but I'd be willing to hammer if it's not really townie.

[davesaz]

Any comments on TTH's big post? I have an opinion but would like to hear others before sharing it, to make it more likely you'll respond objectively and not be influenced by mine.

[davesaz]

Brantzs fence sitting just jumped out at me more.

And am I hearing you correctly saying that you think telltale is trying to distance himself from me because we are scum buddies?

As a matter of fact the thought did cross my mind that she (note: check pronouns) wanted to do exactly that. Funny you should mention it. I could almost take this as an admission that it's true, and I did have a weak scum read on you to begin with.

I'm thinking about voting TTH here. That big post matched my expressed opinions on the game too well for coincidence. I had said I would hammer if it didn't look really townie, and she delivered a post crafted to look as townie as possible to me. It might have worked, had I not been watching her do something very similar just a couple days ago.

[davesaz]

Paraphrasing to see if I'm understanding that right.

BRantz and Vyse are scummy because they seem to be waiting to see what position is safe to take, and then are opportunistic.
You agree that TTH looks like she's pushing an agenda.
If the lynch isn't me, you'd prefer BRantz or TTH.

[davesaz]

I'll be kicking myself if TTH turns up scum, but she's not scummy enough to lynch atm.

VOTE: BRantz
My top scum reads don't see to be options, so settling for a lesser one.
I'm not very happy about all the chaos this game, and in particular some of the inexplicable town reads.
Reading people on the quality and timing of their approach vs. the content just seems wrong.

[davesaz]

Dave you know what helps get your top scum reads lynched? Voting for them. You wanna talk about being opportunistic, pot meet kettle.

I did vote them, and people called me crazy and scum.

[davesaz]

See that comment about inexplicable town reads?

[davesaz]

To be honest, I hadn't thought this was a possibility given all the adamant town reads. Which are the "inexplicable" ones I was referring to.
VOTE: FuDuzn

[davesaz]

Barring unexpected demands from my wife or children, I expect to be around the majority of the time between now and deadline.

[davesaz]

Barring unexpected demands from my wife or children, I expect to be around the majority of the time between now and deadline.

I take that back, deadline is 12 hours later than I thought it was. I'll be sleeping then...

[davesaz]

Damn, I had a post written and the forum flaked. This one is nowhere near as good.

Not sure if I buy FuDuzn's claim completely. Given it's a random setup, it's quite possible there is no real cop to counterclaim. Scum could react to Willow's thing by placing those breadcrumbs to be able to point back to them. But I'm not sure I'd want to lynch a claimed PR, bogus or not. If it's a real claim he might end up dead anyway, unless we have a doc too. The real danger is that fake scum cop could get a "guilty" on strong townie and get a free mislynch out of it.

Note: It's a misrep that I bought into Willow's "claim". If you've been following me at all I was quite certain right from the start that there was no N0 result, and I've called Willow scummy subsequently.

I really don't want a no-lynch.

[davesaz]

Unofficially:
TTH 4 - Brantz, ProHawk, FuDuzn, Tier L-1
FuDuzn 4 - TTH, Vyse, davesaz, SB L-1
BRantz 1 - Mykonian

[davesaz]

I'm here but already on FuDuzn.

[davesaz]

I'm going to have to set an alarm and keep my tablet beside the bed. Deadline is 6:30 AM for me and there's no way I can stay up that long. (30 years ago, maybe lol)

[davesaz]

Possible setups:

MMI (tracker and seeking mason left)
MMJ (1-shot JK and seeking mason left)
MMT (seeking mason left)
In all cases, 1 goon left.

At least 1 living town player knew that the FuDuzn claim had to be false, and one more could have known it was very unlikely without knowing of the existence of seekers.
It will take some time to do my own analysis.

[davesaz]

Doubting the claim on the weakness of the crumbs isn't very telling by itself.

[davesaz]

Still looking / analyzing...

[davesaz]

On the whole thing about claiming / not claiming, I think you're talking past each other and not connecting.

[davesaz]

When I did FuDuzn vs X interaction checking, the most likely partner I've come up with so far has been ProHawk.

[davesaz]

I didn't make notes of specifics, just did x/y iso's and kept a running feeling of likely or unlikely.
Haven't even checked every slot yet. Myko, hawk, BRantz.

[davesaz]

I didn't make notes of specifics. I don't have time to look right now.

[davesaz]

The recent stuff on BRantz makes sense. I'll go re-read the early stuff and see why I thought it was less likely he'd be FuDuzn's scumbuddy.

[davesaz]

Aha, the reason I thought BRantz was unlikely to be scum was that they were both on the TTH wagon. But BRantz started out there a long time earlier so the negative association isn't valid.

Early game they hardly interacted at all, neither to buddy nor to outwardly distance. FuDuzn started distancing later, during the TTH wagon (he'd accept BRantz as a compromise), and then BRantz had all the resistance to switching wagons to break the tie, leaving it to Myko, not believing the claim but still not switching, wanting SB to confirm, etc.

At the end he'd lose all credibility if he didn't bus, even though scum would be in a better position with the no lynch.

VOTE: BRantz

[davesaz]

BTW I think that's L-1.

[davesaz]

Don't like that dave throws suspicion at prohawk, then when questioned on it says he doesn't really have a reason.

This is totally a misrep. I repeated several times that

I didn't remember the reason and didn't have time to look

.
There is a

huge

difference between that and not having a reason.
This is the same general type of opportunistic scum approach that FuDuzn used. Find a technicality and make a "case" out of it.

Looking at a case and seeing things similar to the ones that other people already saw is not sheeping.

Clarification: When I did the setup analysis I overlooked that 0 T's results in a mafia roleblocker. I was concerned about how many scum and not what kind.

[davesaz]

Look at it from my point of view. If I run right off and look it up, then I'm bowing to pressure. And if I don't then I "don't have a reason". It's a no-win situation, and on top of that if I choose the "redo the research and take notes this time" I get to spend all that time gathering info that it's possible nobody will care about anyway.

If someone actually feels the info would be useful, then I'm willing to do it -- on my schedule.
Hawk fits the profile of people who resisted lynching FuDuzn, which provided the starting point.

[davesaz]

Is there a scummies category that would fit for what TTH did? And a nomination thread for the new year?