Mini 1634 - English Premier League Mafia (Game over)


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Post Post #150 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 9:13 am

Post by 4burner »

@Kaboose -

If I'm reading this correctly;

RVS comment "Who do I vote for if my RVS is taken?" (null)
BBT Wagon. (Ohhhh the irony)(Null though, but curious)
Whiskers vote for Misquoting (kinda scummy given obvious (I feel) quote function mishap)
Taunting us with perceived invincibility and disappearing from thread (scummy or anti-town)
Taunting your wagon with "Not scared, try harder) (...null kinda, but not being the type of player that makes this comment I find it hard to see town motivation)
Weak push onto BRO for 'discounting his own reads' (Null to scummy because you are FoSing him for not trusting his day 1 page 2 or 3 townreads implicitly)
Admission of misreading your role (Null to scummy - especially when you are talking about invincibility roles, I'd be reading that shit before playing as above)

There's enough there to warrant a vote, and the Whiskers connection is bad also. Happy to vote either of the two.

"I just didn't like the fact that it was a question that wasn't going to help the game advance. It seemed like a cheap way to create a conversation based on the theme of the game in hopes to get as many posts out that don't hurt you in any way. It still looks odd to me. You can ask those question before, during, or after your main idea in a post. But not as the only thing in a post, because it's immediately a post that's legit not scum hunting. If you're not scum hunting, you're not helping. Are you helping now? Yes. Were you helping then? No."

Furthermore, you called me out for non-game related posting in an attempt to blend in. A fair enough case on the surface, but here's the scenario;
12:46 Game related stuff.
12:51 Guyett votes Whiskers, asks a question
1:05 I answer the question, comment on the game
1:07 Comment on the game
1:51 Game continues without being railroaded by me.

Literally one sentence I typed is what is setting off your alarms, apparently. But you go on to say that had I embedded my 1:07 comment into the one before it, I'd essentially be in the clear as it contained a game related post. (denial of rolling Spurs). It was quiet on the thread, I had the last post, but for the simple fact that I pressed Submit and then came back, you feel the need to comment and call me out on it.

You take exception to me because of a
2 minute
gap between consecutive simple posts that had zero potential of harming the game. And also to call me out for not scumhunting is kinda strange given I've basically expressed suspicion of damn nearly everyone I've interacted with.
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Post Post #151 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 9:22 am

Post by 4burner »

Annnnd I'm actually kinda townreading Scripten upon a readthrough. Iso 12 and the fact that the Kaboose push seems genuine give me good vibes despite earlier.
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Post Post #152 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 9:48 am

Post by deathfisaro »

In post 147, Kaboose wrote:So why are you voting me though? You don't explain that part.

Since you don't want to comment on the nature of my conjecture I'd assume that's an implicit acknowledgement. And I said it'd be a good scum PR to make the game balanced. SCUM pr. What other explanation do I need?
Even if you say otherwise, you already showed willingness to intentionally not take part in the game so I'm casting my vote. It'll either catch scum or even at worst case it'll bring a town lurker above ground.
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Post Post #153 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 9:59 am

Post by Kaboose »

In post 150, 4burner wrote:@Kaboose -

If I'm reading this correctly;

RVS comment "Who do I vote for if my RVS is taken?" (null)
BBT Wagon. (Ohhhh the irony)(Null though, but curious)
Whiskers vote for Misquoting (kinda scummy given obvious (I feel) quote function mishap)
Taunting us with perceived invincibility and disappearing from thread (scummy or anti-town)
Taunting your wagon with "Not scared, try harder) (...null kinda, but not being the type of player that makes this comment I find it hard to see town motivation)
Weak push onto BRO for 'discounting his own reads' (Null to scummy because you are FoSing him for not trusting his day 1 page 2 or 3 townreads implicitly)
Admission of misreading your role (Null to scummy - especially when you are talking about invincibility roles, I'd be reading that shit before playing as above)

There's enough there to warrant a vote, and the Whiskers connection is bad also. Happy to vote either of the two.

"I just didn't like the fact that it was a question that wasn't going to help the game advance. It seemed like a cheap way to create a conversation based on the theme of the game in hopes to get as many posts out that don't hurt you in any way. It still looks odd to me. You can ask those question before, during, or after your main idea in a post. But not as the only thing in a post, because it's immediately a post that's legit not scum hunting. If you're not scum hunting, you're not helping. Are you helping now? Yes. Were you helping then? No."

Furthermore, you called me out for non-game related posting in an attempt to blend in. A fair enough case on the surface, but here's the scenario;
12:46 Game related stuff.
12:51 Guyett votes Whiskers, asks a question
1:05 I answer the question, comment on the game
1:07 Comment on the game
1:51 Game continues without being railroaded by me.

Literally one sentence I typed is what is setting off your alarms, apparently. But you go on to say that had I embedded my 1:07 comment into the one before it, I'd essentially be in the clear as it contained a game related post. (denial of rolling Spurs). It was quiet on the thread, I had the last post, but for the simple fact that I pressed Submit and then came back, you feel the need to comment and call me out on it.

You take exception to me because of a
2 minute
gap between consecutive simple posts that had zero potential of harming the game. And also to call me out for not scumhunting is kinda strange given I've basically expressed suspicion of damn nearly everyone I've interacted with.

You're not wrong, with any of this as I can tell. Was a poor move on my part.

In post 152, deathfisaro wrote:
In post 147, Kaboose wrote:So why are you voting me though? You don't explain that part.

Since you don't want to comment on the nature of my conjecture I'd assume that's an implicit acknowledgement. And I said it'd be a good scum PR to make the game balanced. SCUM pr. What other explanation do I need?
Even if you say otherwise, you already showed willingness to intentionally not take part in the game so I'm casting my vote. It'll either catch scum or even at worst case it'll bring a town lurker above ground.

Oh so you were saying I have a scum PR? So your post was kind of just you thinking out loud but not really talking AT me? It just didn't make sense.
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Post Post #154 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:25 am

Post by deathfisaro »

Umm... what? I have a hard time figuring out if you're acting or not.
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Post Post #155 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:28 am

Post by Kaboose »

Like your original post didn't seem directed at me. Like it was a vote, and then words. Not "Kaboose is/was blah blah blah blah"

That's why I didn't realize you were talking about me, then you called me out for not responding to it, but my defense is I didn't respond to it because it wasn't clear you were directing it at me. But now I assume it was directed at me so I'll go read it again.
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Post Post #156 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:33 am

Post by Kaboose »

In post 145, deathfisaro wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kaboose

Posts 111+144.
I think I now have a conjecture on how to balance a 10:3 full PR game. My initial thought was something in lines of "1 shot lynchproof" mafia PR. Like, if it activates the day just ends there and the lynchee doesn't die. But that still leaves a full night worth of town PR gang powers to fight against. So it may still be town-favoured.
How about a "1 shot lynch return" on top of being lynchproof, the hammerer dies instead of the lynchee. If scums discuss their PRs in pregame PT, they're not gonna fall victim to their teammates powers so it removes 1 town and they get to shoot too.

Originally just wanted to know the scumcount but since you're dropping breadcrumbs I'm gonna eat them and play outsmart the mod =P


Man, reading this again. Why are you so concerned with the well being of the scum team? I mean, you're typing out a way in your head to make sure it's balanced for scum, why would you care if it's balanced for scum? Shouldn't you want an advantage?

Also why are you trying to outsmart the mod instead of scum?
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Post Post #157 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:47 am

Post by massive »

In post 107, 4burner wrote:You vote @RA for playing in pretty much the exact same fashion as myself. I haven't revisited that thought train either despite being the one to bring it up, and am voting Whiskers for much the same reason. Does that make me scum also?

This is interesting phrasing. Do you know for certain that RA is scum? Is it because you are scum also?

Do you think that your comments on BBT's wagon (46, I assume) are the same as Red Arrow's?

In post 111, Kaboose wrote:Meh I'll just play this game when I can be killed. Let me know when people start dying, because I won't be.

WOW that is a horrible attitude. Votably horrible.

In post 143, Red Arrow wrote:
@Whiskers
- Why do you feel drunk posting is a scum meta/tell? What motivation/benefit would someone as scum have by posting drunk that town would not?

Not for me, but I have an opinion. I think scum are more likely to keep up with the game (since they sometimes have to work against their scummates), whereas town feel they can rely on their townmates in their absence. Usually this ends up with them just reading the thread and keeping silent, but that may not work after a bunch of alcohol.
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Post Post #158 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:24 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

- 4burner, when you're not on the phone, can you quote RA's scum-hunting for me?

- Scripten, who are the three players who strike you as scummy?

- RA, you still haven't answered my questions. I understand that you didn't have anything to go on to scum-read anyone on my wagon. What I'm asking is this;

Why did you not engage with/question the people who were on my wagon. This would have allowed you to develop your reads and maybe find out who was scum on my wagon (if there were any on it). As it was, you stated that there was probably scum on my wagon, then proceeded to look elsewhere for scum. Does that seem counter-intuitive to you?

Secondly, you're scum-reading Whiskers for his over-reaction. So I don't want to know what it '
could
' be. I want to know what you think it '
is
' You're being generic in your answers, I want you to be more specfic.

- @Kaboose, because I want to know other people's reasoning for their votes. It's not like I'm saying 'that's a bad vote' I'm asking for their reasoning. Are you going somewhere with this line of questioning?

- @4burner, Because RA explicitly stated suspicion of people on my wagon. I did not say I was suspicious of you and, in addition, I have reasons to believe that you could be town.

Null on Whiskers, leaning town on both Scripten and massive. Town-reads on Scripten and massive are very tentative though.

- 4burner, can you vote Kaboose then?
- massive, can you vote Kaboose then?

Also, Kaboose is at L-2. Throwing that out there.
Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.
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Post Post #159 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:30 am

Post by deathfisaro »

In post 156, Kaboose wrote:
In post 145, deathfisaro wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kaboose

Posts 111+144.
I think I now have a conjecture on how to balance a 10:3 full PR game. My initial thought was something in lines of "1 shot lynchproof" mafia PR. Like, if it activates the day just ends there and the lynchee doesn't die. But that still leaves a full night worth of town PR gang powers to fight against. So it may still be town-favoured.
How about a "1 shot lynch return" on top of being lynchproof, the hammerer dies instead of the lynchee. If scums discuss their PRs in pregame PT, they're not gonna fall victim to their teammates powers so it removes 1 town and they get to shoot too.

Originally just wanted to know the scumcount but since you're dropping breadcrumbs I'm gonna eat them and play outsmart the mod =P


Man, reading this again. Why are you so concerned with the well being of the scum team? I mean, you're typing out a way in your head to make sure it's balanced for scum, why would you care if it's balanced for scum? Shouldn't you want an advantage?

Also why are you trying to outsmart the mod instead of scum?

I'm still wondering about the scum count. I get the feeling the default expectation is 3 but I don't want to end up in a situation where "oh btw, the game is over because there were 5 scums" (doesn't have to be 5, just an example).
This is my very first (offline inclusive) mafia game with an unknown scum count unless I missed an obvious statement somewhere. And given the number of PRs I'm open to a setup with more scum than 3. That's not concerned about well being of the scum team, it's completely the opposite. I wouldn't think too much of it day 1 but eventually we'll need to know the scum count. And you are trying to twist it in a strange way to make it sound like I care about the scum team.

Why outsmart the mod? Because as a mod you may not want setups that end up in a landslide win for one side. So assume the game is somewhat even, then what kind of mafia PRs do you need to make 10:3 game even? What did Kaboose hint at, oh that fits the bill.

And since you keep diverting the attention to somewhere else and dilute my point, I'm finding you scummier every post.

tl;dr: I don't care about the scum team, that's why I voted you.
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Post Post #160 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:37 am

Post by deathfisaro »

And Kaboose, it was you who may or may not have introduced the idea of a wrench that may or may not be monkey that is the concept of someone possibly being lynchproof or not.

If you shake a bait that much something's gonna bite it and I'm gonna be the fish to bite your bait.
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Post Post #161 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:27 pm

Post by massive »

In post 158, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:massive, can you vote Kaboose then?

Do you think that him outing his possible lynchproofiness is something that scum would do?
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Post Post #162 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:26 pm

Post by BROseidon »

In post 79, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:35 - Reasons for vote BRO?


I didn't like my vote on you, so I moved it somewhere else at random.
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Post Post #163 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:29 pm

Post by BROseidon »

In post 89, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I hope I'm not the only one who thinks Kaboose's is nothing but fluff.


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Post Post #164 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:34 pm

Post by BROseidon »

In post 111, Kaboose wrote:Meh I'll just play this game when I can be killed. Let me know when people start dying, because I won't be.


Okay I really want to lynch this now.
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Post Post #165 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:37 pm

Post by BROseidon »

In post 117, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
In post 107, 4burner wrote:
@Massive
- You vote @RA for playing in pretty much the exact same fashion as myself. I haven't revisited that thought train either despite being the one to bring it up, and am voting Whiskers for much the same reason. Does that make me scum also?

Similarly, is there a reason you're attacking massive instead of myself (or as well as myself) given I am questioning RA and not you over the exact same thing?


The post has a lot of cool associatives in it!
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Post Post #166 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:38 pm

Post by Red Arrow »

In post 158, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
- RA, you still haven't answered my questions. I understand that you didn't have anything to go on to scum-read anyone on my wagon. What I'm asking is this;

Why did you not engage with/question the people who were on my wagon. This would have allowed you to develop your reads and maybe find out who was scum on my wagon (if there were any on it). As it was, you stated that there was probably scum on my wagon, then proceeded to look elsewhere for scum. Does that seem counter-intuitive to you?

Secondly, you're scum-reading Whiskers for his over-reaction. So I don't want to know what it '
could
' be. I want to know what you think it '
is
' You're being generic in your answers, I want you to be more specfic.


I'll try and elaborate, bear with me.

I am trying to engage with everyone, but I guess I have been caught up in whiskers mostly. I do stand by the fact that there could probably be scum on your wagon, but I would rather go on solid evidence than a 'probable thought'

however
, since then Kaboose has really caught my eye and I believe he and Whiskers is best chance of scum. Looking back at the people on it, Kaboose was on your wagon and right now I am town reading everyone else on the wagon - 4burner, Yiley, Scripten, Guyett. I believe Kaboose could be the scum on the wagon.

At the start when I did say it, and earlier when I said I would look at it later in the game Kaboose had not jumped out at me as scum and it was still just a probable.... however now he has and I am starting to push at that.

If you want me to be specific on Whiskers over reaction.. looking back now, at what I have pointed out earlier today I believe it was a 'Oh shit, thats my scum buddy hes voting, I will try and defend him and deflect away'

At the time it stood out as odd and not right, over reacting as I said to a vote. What occurded later however my post 141 here http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p6486451 will explain why I am now linking the two, and why I believe he was now over reacting to a vote on his buddy.

Hopefully this is clear, if not I don't know how to explain it better.

At the time I said it was probable there was at least one scum on your wagon, I had nothing to back that up. Just a simple thought... however since then Kaboose has emerged as a scum candidate. I would be happy to lynch him today or whiskers. Either is fine with me. However now I've had time to look back and think... Kaboose is the scum on your wagon I thought was possible. I am convinced he is scum.
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Post Post #167 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:40 pm

Post by BROseidon »

In post 136, Scripten wrote:It's pretty simple. Kaboose's "I'm not playing until you threaten to kill me" is so anti-town that I cannot fathom it coming from a town player. I'm significantly more sure of his scum-ness than I am of 4burner due to a combination of his play and the post I quoted. I can see potential town motivation behind 4burner's posts, but not Kaboose's.


The bigger issue I have with is is that he crumbed BP, which defeats the whole purpose of being BP if town and is a fairly basic claim for scum to make.
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Post Post #168 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:41 pm

Post by BROseidon »

In post 137, Kaboose wrote:Gives two town reads, explains both town reads, and then discredits both town reads. Makes sense.

:facepalm:
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Post Post #169 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:42 pm

Post by Red Arrow »

ooooh interesting. Kaboose is voting whiskers. I didn't catch that first time around. Bussing his partner I think :D

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Post Post #170 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:43 pm

Post by Red Arrow »

In post 167, BROseidon wrote:
In post 136, Scripten wrote:It's pretty simple. Kaboose's "I'm not playing until you threaten to kill me" is so anti-town that I cannot fathom it coming from a town player. I'm significantly more sure of his scum-ness than I am of 4burner due to a combination of his play and the post I quoted. I can see potential town motivation behind 4burner's posts, but not Kaboose's.


The bigger issue I have with is is that he crumbed BP, which defeats the whole purpose of being BP if town and is a fairly basic claim for scum to make.


Its a self preservation claim. No town motive to breadcrumb like he did but plenty of scum motive to survive.
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Post Post #171 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:46 pm

Post by Scripten »

In post 158, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
- Scripten, who are the three players who strike you as scummy?


Kaboose, Whiskers, and 4burner, in that order. 4burner's recent posting has felt much more town in comparison to the right-out-of-the-gate stuff, so he may end up on the lynchability fence rather than on the scum side of it.

Would love to see them lurkers come back in, especially since I'm guessing that there's more than just two scum. (Due to the number of players and the whole PR-heavy indications.)
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Post Post #172 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:48 pm

Post by BROseidon »

Don't really have too much to add right now. Scripten/BBT/RA are all pretty fucking town for this early. Kinda don't like massive and death right now, but those are fairly secondary to Kaboose/Whiskers.
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Post Post #173 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:07 pm

Post by 4burner »

@BBT - I'm not going to go quoting and not just because I'm still phone-bound. You either agree with my sentiment that @RA is involved and questioning the three players I mentioned, or you think I'm misrepping RA's efforts in this game for reasons (presumably scummy). A quick check of RA's iso is A) more informative than me quoting selections anyway and B) less effort for all involved for the same amount of info/game impact.

I think obviously RA is town and feel he has been getting involved and asking questions and I find that scumhunting behavior. You either agree or don't.

For what it's worth I'm finding Scripten town. Massive though I can't see. Did you read my notes on him?

And Kaboose can certainly cop a vote. Watch this space.
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Post Post #174 (ISO) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:12 pm

Post by 4burner »

And actually that's all I need to catch up on really.

@Kaboose's push onto @death is another terrible play so there's that. But I've given my reasons. Here's the vote.

VOTE: Kaboose

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