Mini 1642: The Burning (GAME OVER FLAMES HAVE ENGULFED TOWN)

[Cheetory6]

I noticed that you dodged commenting on my point on Pie.
Trying to avoid giving an indication as to whether she's your scummate or not?

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm sorry if I missed one of the posts upon posts of crap you're posting(not really).

[eektor]

Well, so far I'm thinking Monkey is scum, but I do have some questions for Cheetory.

@Cheetory Since your gunsmith, how did you know that acryon visited FF the other night?

[eektor]

Hey guys, I just realized we are in MYLO here. Best option for us I think is to no lynch today.

[RadiantCowbells]

Saying that is worth an instalynch, eektor.

btw v/la for a few days while I am without a computer

[eektor]

Saying that is worth an instalynch, eektor.

btw v/la for a few days while I am without a computer

Wow, would love to hear your thought process for that statement.

[Cheetory6]

@RC

, Eektor's town.
Only situation that he's not is one in which I'm scum and thus would have to mean scumteam is myself and Eektor.

@Cheetory Since your gunsmith, how did you know that acryon visited FF the other night?

So, I got a positive result when I investigated Acryon. Which basically meant he was either vigilante or mafia. At first, my gutcall was that he was mafia because of my read on him coming out of D2 [he'd been acting kind of weird etc etc] but when I thought about it and what Acryon's reads had been [scumread Copper/scumread FF], I realized that he could have been who was making the extra nightkills on Copper/Former Fish independent of the mafia.
So I was more interested in him claiming and if he claimed vig when he wasn't, someone would counterclaim or shoot him the following night and if he didn't claim vigilante then I would 100% know that he was scum and we would lynch him.

I also wanted to make sure people wouldn't lynch Acryon down the line because they thought he might be a serial killer, so I felt like putting that information on the table before I potentially died was worth it.

I have a not guilty result on you, which means that you don't have a gun and can't kill people, which essentially means you have to be town. Scum is thus in Monkey/Pie/Boon.

Monkey is basically scumclaiming atm, so it comes down to whether Pie or Boon is his scummate in my eyes.

[Cheetory6]

Oh and if you specifically want a direct answer for this:

@Cheetory Since your gunsmith, how did you know that acryon visited FF the other night?

If Acryon was vig, he shot him.
If Acryon was mafia, he would have been fakeclaiming his role and would get shot or counterclaimed and then me saying that he'd targetted FF would be moot.

[Cheetory6]

I'm sorry if I missed one of the posts upon posts of crap you're posting(not really).

"Hi guys I am scumflailing"
Man I am so good at impressions.

[eektor]

Ah ok, I checked and saw you didn't claim he visited FF until after he claimed. Which makes sense with what you say now.

[Cheetory6]

Care with voting Monkey right now.
I think he might selfhammer if given the chance.

[eektor]

I don't think there is any reasons to rush and I want to hear what Boon has to say.

[Cheetory6]

I agree.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm not self hammering.

[eektor]

@Monkey - Why do you think Cheetory is scum?

[pieguyn]

the only way eektor can be scum here is if he's a mafia doctor, which would be >:C especially when there's already a roleblocker. additionally, I had already thought he was more likely town at this point via play after rereading D3

@Cheetory:

can you elaborate in detail on the meta behind your Boon read? I'm not particularly sure at this point how much it's playing into your current reads or what the exact argument there was. (I remember you said he was more dramatic in his town games, but the only thing I can really say without more elaboration is that smth like that is easily faked.)

[pieguyn]

also NL'ing here is essentially shit since it's always going to end with Cheetory dead and no additional info gained

[Boonskiies]

This was the vote count in the middle of day 2.

Elbirn - 4 (Cheetory6, Toon Fighter, RadiantCowbells, eektor)

Toon Fighter - 3 (MonkeyMan576, Elbirn, acryon)

MonkeyMan576 - 2 (Boonskiies, Formerfish)

Not Voting - 1 (pieguyn)

With

10

alive, it's

6

to lynch.


With Elbirn flipping town, and this wagon seemingly filling up, I feel this clears me. There's no possible way that Formerfish would vote Monkey, if I was a scum buddy. There's no reason for me at all to even be on Monkey at this point if I was his scum buddy.


Also, a little after this, Pie convinces Formerfish to change his vote on to Acryon, who is the new wagon starting up.

I'm not too confident on his reads. He was wrong on my about not liking RVS being scummy, and he was wrong when he said Copper and Victor were likely both scum, when they were both town. But he's been fairly active, and confident in his opinions. His posting seems fairly genuine to me at this point, and he's willing to put himself out on a limb.

Activity is a null tell. Confidence is a null tell. A feeling of genuineness can be faked if you are aware enough of your own meta. Scum are always out on a limb.

I hate these reasons for (not scum reading someone?) because its all bullshit. How do you feel about Pies points on the VDA/Copper wagons and the fact that he claims to be focusing on Toon but has admittedly had Elb in the wings? Those two points are very damning to me. And before anyone gets their feathers ruffled I do know that people can have more than one scum read, but this feels like scum scatter shooting and hoping that one of the reads they have takes off as a wagon so they can easily slide onto it. I hated the remark about whoever wasn't voting Toon should have a good reason, and the subsequent shittiness towards me and my questions. Notice how he just said that they were stupid and brushed me off. Town would want to bring me into the fold and get me to vote with him, that wasn't what happened. Instead he tried to shame me into shutting up because h knew that statement was bullshit.

Vote: Acryon

I'm with pie on this.

Added colon.

Also, this.

I'm also feeling my Elbirn is turning into a Zebulin like push from me this game, and I'm trying to work on that. I tunneled in Masquerade as well.

I pushed Zebulin so hard in that game, that they ended up lynching him the next day after I was lynched and lost the game for town. =/ Elbirn and I had a similar thing.


From my perspective, scum is 100% Pie and Monkey now. Monkey made a weird choice in pushing Cheetory I feel, and Pie made sure to bus him on that with no diddlydaddling. I believe the gunsmith claim. I mean, is there really any reason not to?

[Boonskiies]

oops. didn't mean to bold it all.

[pieguyn]

With Elbirn flipping town, and this wagon seemingly filling up, I feel this clears me. There's no possible way that Formerfish would vote Monkey, if I was a scum buddy. There's no reason for me at all to even be on Monkey at this point if I was his scum buddy.

this doesn't "clear" you in any way. I can link at least 2 games where there was an entire 3p all-scum wagon, which in at least one of those cases was done for the express purpose of subverting VCA. having a 2p all-scum wagon on a scum partner is in no way unreasonable, especially with 2 competing town wagons that are both infinitely more likely to actually get lynched. in fact, I'd argue that it makes slightly *more* sense that scum would sit around doing fuck all with 2 town wagons already in play.

Also, a little after this, Pie convinces Formerfish to change his vote on to Acryon, who is the new wagon starting up.

er... no?

FF's jump on acryon was entirely him following me. there was no attempt to convince FF here, and even if there was, this would not be scummy if you assume scum didn't know the traitor. in fact, it's obvious he was trying to buddy up to and manipulate me there, so this actually makes me pretty town

so.... try again?

[Boonskiies]

If I assume scum didn't know the traitor? Wait a minute, pie...why feel the need to say that? Why would anyone assume otherwise?

Anywhosies, either way, you're tomorrow's lynch.

[pieguyn]

speaking of sitting around doing fuck all, this was every mention/interaction with MM576 since you actually made that vote up to the Elbirn vote.

Spoiler:

I'm thinking possibly Monkey/Acryon now.

VOTE: Monkey

I don't think they're connected, more do I think they are scum together. They're just my scum reads.

IC is too strong for 2 scum game, but much too weak to be the only PR in a 3 scum game.

IC isn't that strong, they are usually night kill bait.

In fact, I wouldn't call IC a power role myself.

They are 100% mod confirmed town. How is that not a power role? It directly and indirectly changes the way other PR's target and helps people read others.

Because more often than not they are killed on night 1 and a non factor for most of the game.

I mean if you are going to call any non-VT role a power role than yes. But not if you are going to compare the relative power of roles.

Okay, apparently wiki defines PR as any Non VT role. Personally I think some minor roles are not Power, but that is just semantics.

The IC tag is a given to protect from another town PR, if there is a protective role. If we can successfully get a NK, that's awesome. It's incredibly helpful and powerful. Also, if for some reason the IC doesn't die, we can also look into reasons why scum would choose to keep the IC alive, allowing us to analyze further. It may not be powerful directly, but indirectly it is most definitely a POWERful Role.

I think I'm just biased and nit picky towards you because you're scum.

Sticks and stones...

You don't think guessing as to why the IC is alive is WIFOM?

No. It's the same thing as figuring out why any confirmed town stays alive. It means they're not a threat to scum at all.

Then I guess it's not that powerful a role, if they are not a threat.

The player is not the threat. The role can be and is. A vigilante isn't a threat to scum if the player's reads are horrible. If the doctor has no idea who to protect, they are also not a threat. An inventor who doesn't know what to do with inventions is not a threat. PR's don't have to be threats. Doesn't mean they aren't PR's.

How do they contradict each other at all? There were 100 posts in between, and I also scum read Toon Fighter Day 1. I don't believe Toon Fighter is scum with Monkey, whereas I could see Acryon and Monkey scum together. I don't really have much reasoning for Acryon. Usually he tunnels me pretty hard as town, and he's playing kind of differently than I'm used to him playing. Also, his placing on the early day 1 wagon was odd to me, and I'd like to look into later, depending on the flips. I absolutely do not think Acryon should be today's lynch, as there's not enough scum reasoning behind my gut feeling, and I don't believe it'll give many reads. I'd much rather a Toon Fighter lynch than an Acryon.

What I meant is I'm thinking they are possible scum buddies for now. I don't mention all of my reads necessarily, as early on in the game, I'm not really sure how to word it with it making sense to other people. I also said for now...plot points, yo.

I don't see much conviction in any of your reads, Boon. Red flag, for sure.

Because I'm scum reading you and also the person you are voting for? LLL. Is that implying you know Toon Fighter's going to flip town since my scum read on that is bad?

No, I don't know where you got any of those assumptions from.

I said your reads lack conviction and I don't see any comprohensive reasoning.

Toon/Boon/eektor scumteam?

Also, you asked why Monkey and Toon couldn't be scum together. Monkey wouldn't be bussing Toon so hard. He wouldn't do that. There's no possible way. None at all. He might soft bus her, but he's had a hard on for lynching Toon, and he could easily have just voted you. Unless...

Have I nailed the whole scum team? Is it Monkey/Acryon/Elbirn? Ha!!! Inb4 Acryon/Monkey start sheeping Elbirn.

there really is no *actual* push here. you also pushed Elbirn way more strongly than you did MM576 at this point in the game.

it makes a lot of sense you would soft-push the Elbirn wagon (one of the 2 town wagons) while making a weak-ass push on a partner that would have no chance of actually getting him lynched. additionally, the reasoning here was generally weak as fuck. a lot of it was just arguing over why the IC would get left alive and there was no sort of pointed questioning/accusation anywhere in here. it's night and day to the push you made on Elbirn at this point, really

sooooo yeah. your interaction with MM doesn't in any way clear you 2 of being partners.

[MonkeyMan576]

Eektor:
Here is Cheetory's vote history:
Day 1: Acryon, Victor, MM576, Elbirn,
Day 2: Elbirn, Acryon
Day 3: Acryon, Boon, Unvote


Aside from the fact that he lied and could very well be scum trying to hide his true night actions, his voting history doesn't seem very townish to me. He's never been on the final lynch, for one, despite how scummy they have been acting. To me, the TF and Elbirn lynches were both very good lynches, the fact that he wasn't on either wagon, despite not really defending either player from my recollection, strikes me as off.

[Boonskiies]

False, pie. I feel I pushed monkey stronger than I pushed Elbirn. I got more heated with Elbirn than I did monkey, but I definitely pushed monkey more. If anything that should make me town. I guess it's different for me to read everything now that it's confirmed for me that Monkey and Pie are the scum team.

I have every intention of voting Monkey today.

[MonkeyMan576]

If you vote me, you are voting town. Be forewarned. There is no real argument for scumMonkey.