New York 181 -- Game Over


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Post Post #2000 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:04 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

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Post Post #2001 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:05 am

Post by Garmr »

Elusive if your reading this I like you and all because you're a fun person but it's not that hard to refer to texcat as she -_- Also trying to get mod kill sours the experience and I want to play with you again.

Tbh I really don't mind the voting situation at the moment because none of my town reads are on the chopping block.
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Post Post #2002 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:09 am

Post by Nobody Special »

elusive, Vanilla Townie turned Neutral Survivor,
has been modkilled and has lost the game.


Night One begins now. All actions are due to my inbox by deadline.

Deadline: (expired on 2015-03-12 17:08:52)
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Post Post #2003 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:28 am

Post by Nobody Special »

Titus replaces Nikanor (who requested replacement via PM). Deadline is not affected.
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Post Post #2004 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:47 am

Post by Nobody Special »

davesaz, Vanilla Townie,
has been shot.


Drixx, Mafia Goon,
has been stabbed.


Day Two begins now.

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2015-04-02 18:49:13)
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Post Post #2005 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:51 am

Post by Wake1 »

texcat

(13) | (1824)

What We Know

Texcat voted for
Garmr
in . She insinuated in that
ika
's is something Scum would do. Even though she did, she said that she didn't vote in ; in that same post she mentions that it's Scum's job to find power roles, whereas it's Town's job to discover alignments. Furthermore texcat expressed concern regarding
elusive
's bonus question, because she appears to suspect that
elusive
may be Scum trying to decide who to kill first. Fluffed in , makes two brief comments to
elusive
and
Garmr
, and fluffs again in . She reiterates her concern about the bonus question in , and mentions that
elusive
's subtle changes in her reasons for asking those questions bother her. Texcat also feels doubtful about
elusive
's Town-meta, expresses distrust towards it, and casts a vote against her. In in response to
Nikanor
she is suspicious of
elusive
and adds that it is never wise to trust someone when they say they are bad Scum.

She implies
ika
is rolefishing and promptly casts a vote against him (). Emoticon in . Says she's trying not to Townread anyone because she's usually wrong and it usually gets her into trouble. Appears to take issue with
elusive
's comment in , and goes on V/LA in . Texcat then votes
Klingoncelt
in , and questions
elusive
's comment about her play being different from past games.

sees her mention that she doesn't have anyone fixed as Town in her mind yet, but that she won't vote for
Davesaz
,
Egg
,
Aneninen
, and
Drixx
—she's not getting a Scummy read on
Flubbernugget
, either. Is also keeping an eye on me and
House
, because we beat her as a hydra in a past game, but my posts there only comprised about 5% of them. There, my voice was barely above a whisper. In that same post, she also casts a vote against
elusive
. With , she's willing to wait with lynching the
Klingoncelt
slot until a replacement is found, but does express some interest in lynching it, because there would be enough posts to garner enough information from its flip.

Though acknowledging in that I was only a rare part of the Scum-hydra that deceived her, she says that I still make her feel nervous (come here and give me a big hug :razz:). , , , and is her and
elusive
fighting back and forth, as well as part of . She also insinuates in that last post that if she weren't stuck in
elusive
's tunnel she'd move on to me, and she's Townreading
House
because in her words he's pissing people off at every opportunity. and contains more fighting with
elusive
.

Pros and Cons

Has been aggressively questioning others.

Texcat questioned elusive's bonus question.

Appears genuinely paranoid of other players.

Texcat has primarily focused on elusive this game.

Made ika's sound like it was actually serious.

Mentions she's trying not to townread people ().

Didn't answer my seriously.


How I'm Reading This

I don't particularly care for how she voted for Garmr early on, because it's undoubtedly not a serious vote, and as such shouldn't be taken seriously. Didn't like her one bit because she took a comment that was obviously not serious and made it sound as if it was: so, why? Why would you even try doing that, texcat, when you knew it wasn't serious? Her comment in felt like truthiness, in that she's stating things that are generally true, but as Scum she's saying them to look Town. I distinctly remember Belisarius doing this as Scum, and at that point on it left an impression in my mind as something to really watch out for, because it is so subtle and odious. One thing that made me feel better about her slot is when she questioned elusive's bonus question, because it did sort of feel like she was looking for power roles. Of course, as Scum she could emulate that sentiment, but for now I'll give her the benefit of the doubt for at least showing some reservation there.

Fluff in general I don't like but, hey, this is Mafia and a large game at that, so people ought to be able to laugh and have fun from time to time. Though now we know that elusive was an immature Townie, I still think there was merit in texcat's comments about elusive's subtle changes in her reasons for asking questions, and I don't think there's any good reason to delve into the further. What I do feel is worth noting is how texcat had been focusing on elusive for so much of the game. It's almost as if it gave her a reason to not have to focus much if at all on anyone else. When I analyzed her post, a lot of her exchanges were about elusive. I don't know if tunneling is something Scum-texcat would do. In fact, I don't think I've ever played with texcat as Scum. Her exchange in piqued my interest a bit, because she implied that ika was rolefishing... but my eyes see him crumbing being a Doctor, and if he's doing what I think he's doing (trying to draw the NK) then I townread him for it. Granted, texcat could simply be paranoid Town and being hyper-observant, so I don't know how exactly to read that bit of exchange. Any thoughts or ideas there would be helpful, please.

When she says she's trying not to Townread anyone because she's usually wrong and it gets her into trouble I, eh, I don't know how I feel about that. In a way it's similar to how I try not to Scumread players Day 1 because we've got nothing but spec, but she says she does it because she fears getting into trouble. But as Town, you shouldn't be afraid of "getting into trouble." Rather your voice be heard than be silent and the Town be in trouble for it later on. People are gonna be wrong more often than they are right in Mafia and, in my opinion, it's easier to Townread people in general than Scumread them (if you're more interested in being accurate). I can't really blame her for feeling that way, but I can't praise her for it, either. I will further pin her down and put her under a microscope, to better understand her and the motives behind her feelings, and she will either come through my inspection unscathed, or I will inevitably take her down or die in the process. Her vote on KC in
could
be opportunistic, but then again anyone's vote on her or SW during that drama could. I would like to better understand why she said elusive's gameplay was different from past games (as in what
exactly
), even though it is post-mortem.

One thing that troubles me is how she says she has no one as Town in her mind... but there are four players she won't vote for. It doesn't make sense to say how you have no one as Town, but you do have players you will not vote for yet. If you don't have anyone set as Town, then everyone else's heads should be on the chopping black and susceptible to being voted. Or am I completely wrong on this? Her nervousness of me from my point of view is justified, because as Scum I can be a nightmare. Then again, if she think I have an ego, and if she is Scum, she could be putting on a facade and trying to placate my ego and making it seem as if she's just a nervous, quibble, stuttering Townie. Sort of like Professor Quirrell in the first Harry Potter movie. Yeah, like that. Again, I don't know what Scum-texcat looks like. If anyone
does
know, now would be the time to speak up. If anything, she should be far more nervous of House, because obviously he is far, far more insidious than I am. She should fear him more than me, if she's trying to use our past hydra as an excuse to be 'nervous' of us. I was barely part of that hydra, so she really needs to clarify her feelings there, or I will rip and tear at her until she tells us exactly why and how she came to those feelings. And one thing you must know if you are to know me, is that I do not stop, and will not stop, because I will know the truth, and I will have it from you until you give it up or one of us is dead. Being Town grants me certain freedoms, like being selfless and aggressive, so if you spill blood in the water I will come for you with good reason.

Regarding elusive's town-flip—and this is before Night 1's resolution—my suspicion that elusive and texcat were teammates has evaporated. As for her focus on elusive, I do not fully understand it, and the game is still undeniably early.
Texcat, why did you primarily focus on elusive Day 1?
And, also, do you feel it's fair to say that? Basically I'm trying to feel out your motives, and better understand what you were doing. I understand that in the past Scum has tried to railroad you into a mislynch, because—and you may feel differently on this—they viewed you as an easy target. What I want to do is give you ample opportunity to explain yourself, because I do have that slight feeling in my gut that Scum is out to use you this game, and if it can be preempted earlier on, the better. Was your fighting with elusive in response to her tunneling you, or were you tunneling her? We know she was Town. From where I sit, part of me feels like you were tunneling her in order to not have to focus much on others, but another part of me feels that if you were Scum you'd focus on someone less vocal and willful, and yet another part of me feels like, in general, you don't engage that much at all.

I want you to explain in detail every reason why you said that, if you weren't stuck in elusive's tunnel, you'd move on to me. I want to know
why
. You will explain this to me by the end of this Day, or you will not be unscathed. That I promise you. So if you are Town, I expect you to do the right thing and engage me both honestly and directly, or suffer the inherent consequences of a man with nothing to lose. You townreading House for his behavior rings true, but it is not enough. Engage me to the best of your abilities, texcat, or I will put you through your paces, and throw you out the window.

Where The Player Stands

Being thorough, I will not ever read someone as explicably Town or Scum Day 1. Hell no. Sans Night 1 aftermath, I'm reading her as leaning Town, and subject to being an easy target by Town, and someone the rest of us Town should (at least a little bit) not be too quick to lynch without thinking it through. Meaning, we question every reason put forth to lynch her. Using her lack of frequent posting against her I will not consider, and instead will place scrutiny down upon those who do try to play that card. If there is anything I can say that I know about texcat, it is that she does not post frequently, and should not be used in gauging her alignment. If, instead, she was posting hundreds of times during Day 1 here, then that'd be something to consider. It wouldn't surprise me if texcat was left alive by Scum, because I suspect that at least one of the four Mafia may know of her meta, and try using it against her. I don't know what her Scumplay looks like. Please help me there. If any of you can add onto my read of her, or feel the need to contradict me, I would have you do it without holding anything back (sans personal insults, please). If you do add some things to this table, please provide a source, whether it be a link or something from personal experience. By the very nature of her play, if she's Town we need to put extra effort into questioning the reasons and motives behind any future attempts to lynch her. And if texcat doesn't feel she's an easy target, might as well have her say so, too.

My read on texcat is subject to change once Night 1 ends.
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Post Post #2006 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:52 am

Post by dragonspawn »

So drixx was a goon. Who was he town reading?
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Post Post #2007 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:52 am

Post by Wake1 »

Analyzing Drixx flip for associations.
"It's wise to be... cautious... with Wake."
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"What Wake lacks in charisma, he makes up for it in pure analytic power."
— Nosferatu*
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Post Post #2008 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:22 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

So uh... TL;DR Wake? Habs game starting soon.
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Post Post #2009 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:24 pm

Post by pisskop »

He's saying she's slightly townish, which I could have told you :P
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #2010 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:25 pm

Post by pisskop »

In post 1942, Drixx wrote:So this time, I'm going to ask you to do something harder. Explain away Delta's scummy behaviour in his (non)response to my push, and make a logical, objective, rational case that Delta is town, using only his posts. I don't care what your opinion is about what scum might or might not do. A 2nd game mafia player can tell you that scum do unpredictable things, so your skepticism is worse than useless. You say Elusive is obvtown so this should be a ridiculously easy exercise for you.


Guess who else is town?
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Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #2011 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:25 pm

Post by pisskop »

(Elusive and) Delta! \o/
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Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #2012 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:29 pm

Post by Drixx »

As per rule 24: Bah! I didn't read rule 27.



Removed extraneous quotes. ~~NS
Last edited by Nobody Special on Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #2013 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:31 pm

Post by Aneninen »

I had noted it down before the Day suddenly ended. I thought it might be useful much later but it's time to post it:

In post 1854, DeltaWave wrote:@Drixx, maybe we shouldn't run wagons on anyone because we'd be "silencing" them. This is just the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen playing mafia.

In post 1855, Drixx wrote:Wake ... it's not that I don't read you scummy. In fact, I kind of do. It just has been light scum and I'm not gonna bandwagon onto a vote I'm not convinced of unless I have to.

Let me be REALLY clear. If this post you're making isn't persuasive and impressive ... you aren't winning any points.

In post 1856, Drixx wrote:
In post 1854, DeltaWave wrote:@Drixx, maybe we shouldn't run wagons on anyone because we'd be "silencing" them. This is just the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen playing mafia.


You can't have it both ways. You're specifically pushing a wagon on him because he hasn't posted what he says he's made significant work on drafting and is coming soon. Why do you want us all to hop on before we see that draft? That really strikes me as super shady. I'll be voting Wake if this post of his isn't really good.


What if Drixx has coached DeltaWave here? This interaction is especially strange because Drixx voted for DeltaWave on the page before, check that page too!
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Post Post #2014 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:33 pm

Post by Aneninen »

Call me a spoilsport but I don't think that post from Drixx above was a "Bah"...
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Post Post #2015 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:36 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Right, Delta.

Vote: Delta
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Post Post #2016 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:36 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

In post 2014, Aneninen wrote:Call me a spoilsport but I don't think that post from Drixx above was a "Bah"...


What did he post in 2012?
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Post Post #2017 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:41 pm

Post by Aneninen »

Believe me or not, haven't got the slightest idea. There were at least four quotes, but I didn't read them.
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Post Post #2018 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:44 pm

Post by Nobody Special »

Originally included in Drixx' Bah post were quotes from early game; he PMed me to explain they were in his reply from Q+ from when he was posting. They were not in any way relevant, so I deleted them.

This is why I never use Q+. YMMV.
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Post Post #2019 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:46 pm

Post by freeko »

Well this vote is long overdue. 2 whole hours passed since the start of day 2.

VOTE: Albert B Rampage

Anyone who needs this explained, see day 1. Nothing has changed as far as I care to make me not think this is the exact place a vote should be.

In a slightly serious note, who was it that started asking about opinions of the interactions between Drixx and Aneninen? Does this make Aneninen more town now? Is this an epic level bus to clear Aneninen? Massive truckloads of WIFOM aside, if this was part of the plan to distance the pair when one of the two flipped, how far off is my thinking here? Obviously I will be looking back when I am not watching hockey, but it is food for thought nonetheless I think.
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Post Post #2020 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:51 pm

Post by Aneninen »

Noone asked that today. But wasn't he townreading me?
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Post Post #2021 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:54 pm

Post by ika »

Mikazuki vote history: Shiro, Nikanor

drixx vote history: Klingoncelt, ABR, Klingoncelt, deltawave

im going to rule kling slot out of being maf based on drixx votes
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Post Post #2022 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:55 pm

Post by pisskop »

In post 2020, Aneninen wrote:Noone asked that today.

This is exactly the kind of response not to give. :facepalm:
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Post Post #2023 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:56 pm

Post by pisskop »

Also \o/
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #2024 (ISO) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:39 pm

Post by House »

Second verse, same as the first.

Little bit louder and a little bit worse.

VOTE: DeltaWave
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