New York 182 - Game Over

[Sakura Hana]

So let me get this straight, you think he's town because he put

effort

into looking into someone's amazing ammount of

one game

to determine that the person did an emotional outburst as town and ergo, must be town here?

[Gorkington]

i refuse to move on.
i am determined. copper is taking his sweet time with answering his reasoning for his scumread which makes me think hes sitting there at his computer writing out a thought a hundred times trying to get it to look right so he doesnt look bad.

Copper is town

scum cant put effort into a game?

[elusive]

Sakura, It's self-explanatory but do ask me particular and relevant questions about what exactly you didn't understand about that. There was no need for scum to go look up a newbie and figure them out. He did so to try to figure out Choof's play and his slot (for example my thinking as town might be, if I didn't know the player, "Is this meltdown because of the role pm or because of other reasons?"). He also described the meta accurately rather then trying to paint that slot as scummy which is what I would expect scum to do so.

So, it would be easy for scum to go," Yeah Choof meltdown is scummy bc he's a newbie player with like one game on here and his game shows "blah blah blah contortioned lies" rather then what he did was be accurate.

[copper223]

you are funny I'll admit, I am not answering on purpose until you fix your form of address to others.

[Sakura Hana]

It's a closed setup I get that part but it has some limits, yes? Like its prolly not possible for 12 vigs because of balance? That is answerable, yeah?

Literally no limits within the Normal Game wiki page and as long as the NRG says yes. Obviously balance, etc, etc, but that's pretty much up to each person's debate, while 12 vigs is an exageration yes, we dont have any flips or claims aside from the hated, trying to figure out the entire setup based on that and give advice is as silly as you asking for that sort of advice, picture everyone's vanilla and go from there until more information is availaible.

[Gorkington]

hes angry omgusing me but playing coy.
how dissonant.

[elusive]

you are funny I'll admit, I am not answering on purpose until you fix your form of address to others.

Who is this addressed towards?

[Sakura Hana]

omgusing me but playing coy.

Wait what, are you talking about copper here?

[Gorkington]

yeahyeah.

[Sakura Hana]

No empty threat mate, the way you are approaching the game with those cookie cutter scumreads, you are scum because you post a smile, clearly buddying up, you are scum because you answered the question, clearly overexplaining, you are scum because you scumread me back and I am an easy lynch because I was being mean, clearly scum looking for an easy lynch, without any kind of analysis or thought about what the actual content of the posts is and what other different (and I think well explained) motivations I had is useless and dangerous town to leave around or scum looking for superficially scummy BS, either way you are not going to help me win.

Oh right, i almost forgot i was gonna comment on this and then completely forgot copper said it...
Welp now i feel like an idiot.

[Antihero]

I think people should consider play first and foremost,

as if roleclaims aren't part of "play."

you're playing a gambit and i'm not letting you get away with it. there's definitely a scum motivation for claiming hated and it's pretty simple. you claim hated and everyone doesn't lynch you because they believe you. and... oh look you even have a lylo clause so no one can justify policy lynching you before lylo.

thing is, in this case, that doesn't stack up with what i know about normals or how the normal review process works or the philosophy behind normals.

here's a quote from the wiki

Mechanics which are explicitly Non-Normal include:

Those affecting a role's alignment (no Cults).

Anything which significantly affects the core mechanic of majority/plurality lynches (no Kingmaker, for example).

Anything resolving with a random element, with the exception of missed night choices. It must be included in the public ruleset if you are resolving night choices in this way.
Post Restrictions (other than those included in the ruleset, such as "No quoting your Role PM").
Lying to the players, including False Role Reveals and "Scum Masons".
Night action redirection (no Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, or Redirector).
Returning "No Result" to Trackers who do not see their target go anywhere (in favor of "Your target did not visit anyone").
Alignments other than Mafia/Werewolf, Pro-Town, and Serial Killer (no Survivor, Lyncher, or Jester).
Hydra accounts.

i think it's fair to say that hated pretty significantly affects the core mechanic of majority lynches BECAUSE IT COMPLETELY REMOVES IT. plurality lynches are mostly used for speed games and bulge makes no allowances in the rule set for that so that's not really applicable here.

the spirit of having reviewers look over the set up for "normalcy" is that everyone is on the same page and everyone can go to the wiki and look up how a role is "normally" treated. with hated, there's a pretty big gray area in the lylo clause and there's not a well-defined, standard "way" you can go look up and see how it's treated. and hated's not the only role that's like this. look at the other ones:

Non-Sane Cop, Blank Vig, Non-Sane or Quack Doctor, Janitor, Survivor, Lyncher, Cultist, Jester, Mafia Mason, Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector, Framer.

you see stuff like "redirector" and "bus driver" because it has weird role interactions and brings up questions like "are people TOLD they're bus driven/redirected?" and there's no standardized answer for that because it all varies based on how the mod needs to balance the games.

this kind of speculation could play a role in THEME games, but the NRG doesn't tolerate stuff like this.

the claim is fake and i don't believe it and i think you're scum.

[Gorkington]

doesnt doublevoter affect daystate in the same way?

[Antihero]

@Marquis: Then doubt me, but don't give me rope over my claim. If you're going to lynch me, do it over something worth a damn.

well here, how's this?

you're shotgunning w/ the interactions w/ silverwolf. the wagon is sketchy but then silverwolf is awkward herself...? so who's scum, all of them?

[Gorkington]

like doesnt doublevoter require the same level of lylo clarification as hated does?

[Antihero]

doesnt doublevoter affect daystate in the same way?

DOUBLE VOTER IS CONFIRMED, PUBLIC, ALMOST NEVER HAS A LYLO CLAUSE, HAS BEEN USED BEFORE IN A NORMAL GAME AND IS

FUCKING WHITELISTED

HATED IS NONE OF THOSE THINGS

if you bring up this point again, i will scream

[pisskop]

Doublevoter is verifiable, for one.
Hated/loved is meh. I really doubt he is actually hated

[Gorkington]

technically you kind of already did scream but okay.

im not sure i understand how it doesnt have a lylo clause but if im going to cause you a heart attack i will just hide away by myself.

[copper223]

Fair enough, I am also thinking along the lines of a fakeclaim but that's not something only scum does.

[Antihero]

you can go to the wiki DOUBLE VOTER

they. spell. out. what. its. normal. version. is.

[elusive]

@Mod

In a normal game such as this is the Hated role considered "Explicitly Normal" or "Explicitly Non-Normal" and\or is there some sort of "Implicit Normal" or "Implicit Non-Normal" roles list?

[Antihero]

What exactly are you asking about. Are you talking about my responce to the Vasoon read.,.ie are asking about who you think is scum or are you asking about the names connected to the Choof run off.....

kinda' both because you're acting like those two overlap so i'm asking "who exactly is this?"

i get the feeling choof ran off because he felt like there was a clique he wasn't part of, which... i guess is kind of normal? i don't know. i don't see anyone really sandbagging him like you're suggesting. i'm asking where you're seeing this.

if you are asking about the scum on the Vasoon wagon , I dint know yet. I am sure however that there was scum that jumped on the Vvaoon wagon. As far as the Choof run off. I am talikng about everyone who jumped on the attack Choof wagon that drove him off
In the Mafiacraft game scum Pirate Molly insulted Albert and made him implode. ABR pm Pirate and ended up getting mod killed. Scum Molly got awaay with it clean and also made ABR look scummy.

I hate flash wagon as they allow scum to jump on without looking scummy. Ie I was going with the flash wagon to see people reactions....

ok... the analogy may or may not be valid, i didn't play that game, but now i maybe kind of see why you're thinking the way you are.

still lost on kittenlicks.

[Gorkington]

im dumb apparently.
gonna stare at wiki until i stop being dumb.

[Antihero]

antihero what does nrg stand for? and does that mean in general the site meta has gone from "wild and free and open to new ideas" to "UNIFORMS FOR EVERY1 + STRAITJACKETS SO YOU DON"T HURT YOURSELVES"

nrg = normal review group. when you sign up to mod a normal game, they're the people that look at your setup and give it the thumbs up before you're allowed to run it.

the divide you're talking about is between normals (UNIFORMS) and themes (the wild west). it's the mindset in what the players want when they sign up. thinking about the intricacies of role interactions definitely falls more in the "theme" territory than normals.

[The Bulge]

In a normal game such as this is the Hated role considered "Explicitly Normal" or "Explicitly Non-Normal"is there some sort of "Implicit Normal" or "Implicit Non-Normal" roles list?

The Hated modifier is not on the Explicitly Normal nor on the Explicitly Non-Normal list, found here.

is there some sort of "Implicit Normal" or "Implicit Non-Normal" roles list?

I am not aware of such a list.

[The Bulge]