SMITE Role Madness Mafia (OVER AT LAST!)

[farside22]

Yeah I just can't seem to read this game to save my life.

Mod: replace me please

My ADD just glazes at all the post in this game, sorry

[T S O]

Even if it was, how did vezok go on to declare his neighbourhood was town if he didn't have a

strong

read on me? Maybe it was a mild townread, somehow, but not a strong one.

Why did he need a strong read on you to declare the neighborhood all town?

What?

[T S O]

Like that post seems directly contradictory to me.

[TheWayItEnds]

V/LA til friday/saturday

[Imperium]

Even if it was, how did vezok go on to declare his neighbourhood was town if he didn't have a

strong

read on me? Maybe it was a mild townread, somehow, but not a strong one.

Why did he need a strong read on you to declare the neighborhood all town?

What?

I can have a mild town read on someone and I won't really have a problem with calling them town. Why is that approach unacceptable coming from vezok?

[Imperium]

I guess I'm having trouble piecing together my thoughts in a more lucid manner, so gonna take a break instead of continuing this.

[T S O]

Because when people like mastin were vouching for their neighbourhoods, they were saying things like "ZZZX is 99% town, so is Xombie. No lynching them. Ever." It was made clear that if you were going to vouch for your neighbourhood you needed some pretty cast-iron reasons for doing so.

Vezok may or may not have had a mild townread on me somehow. If he did, I still don't see town-him just casually telling everyone it was an all-town neighbourhood like he did. With a minor townread on me? I just can't believe he'd do that. He's not wildly impulsive like that.

[Imperium]

Because when people like mastin were vouching for their neighbourhoods, they were saying things like "ZZZX is 99% town, so is Xombie. No lynching them. Ever." It was made clear that if you were going to vouch for your neighbourhood you needed some pretty cast-iron reasons for doing so.

Vezok may or may not have had a mild townread on me somehow. If he did, I still don't see town-him just casually telling everyone it was an all-town neighbourhood like he did. With a minor townread on me? I just can't believe he'd do that. He's not wildly impulsive like that.

This makes no sense at all. You're essentially saying because mastin overestimated his read early, someone who is notorious for overestimating reads and giving reads on people who haven't even posted yet, everyone who declares their reads has to have that same intensity.

I don't believe you believe that.

Your scum read on vezok sounds convenient.

I would like you to explain vezoks motivations in claiming to save his partner day two in the way he did. Note: I never believed he was the cause for the missing night kill night one, but the way in which he did it didn't sound to me like someone going oh hey partner I saved you wink wink.

Zelink brings up a good point when he points out that cephrir obviously role copped mask night one from the way he interacted with him day two. Therefore, the scum team would have known he was a modified doc. So is it your contention, that knowing the scum team planned to kill mask the next might, as is indicated by cephrir's role, that vezok decided to also claim a doc type role and have scrutiny brought upon himself due to multiple roles? Also note I absolutely believe iterations of similar roles exist, and heartless's? Point that he could be scum based on there already being a doc flip and so he's suspicious there is complete crap when taken in conjunction with the fact that theyve pointed out that two town roles with similar passives have already flipped. (If that wasn't heartless, sorry, I'm in the middle of several things and tried to quickly get caught up.)

One reason I don't buy the vezok is scum who claimed doc on his partner is because not very long ago in serum and steel, one of the reasons why falcon eventually got lynched was because he was a scum doc and vezok was the town doc and people didn't think two of the same role could exist on the same side. I have a hard time believing that vezok!scum claimed doc knowing that a) mask was a modified doc, b) he was not the reason for the missing night kill and knew it, c) claimed to save his partner - quite frankly I don't imagine vezok is that ballsy as scum, and d) opened himself up for a counter claim knowing it would end up getting him in the process. I don't see the reward there at all.

[Imperium]

When I suspect someone for inactivity, it's because I suspect them for coasting through a majority of the game because they can get away with it. Starting to be active in a step in the right direction, but it doesn't immediately erase all suspicion.

Well, I've picked up my activity, so as far as I'm concerned this point is dying a quick death.

I am also suspicious of how you pushed the mastin lynch yesterday as an obvious scum push that everyone were idiots for not understanding: it seemed like you were latching on a contradiction in order to get a mislynch even though the contradiction wasn't actually scummy thanks to circumstances.

I was just attempting to make mastin be held accountable because the "one more day" thing wasn't cutting it with me - I fail to see how this is scummy.

I also really didn't like your "why should I post when I have a ghost guilty on me?" plea: it wasn't the reason for your earlier inactivity and it didn't really seem like a genuine reason for your inactivity at any point.

It's still true, though. If there was an accidental mod result which pointed to you being scum and you were town, it's quite demoralising. Do you disagree with this?

I also don't like your play in general of shooting down the case on you but not really taking initiative elsewhere: it's easy but it doesn't actually make any sort of progress towards a town win.

It's impossible to take initiative elsewhere until you can defuse the pressure on you because people are all too happy to vote me, absolve themselves of responsibility for the flip, feel slightly bad about the flip and move on. I'm having to prioritise my survival over pushing other people right now.

1) I don't understand your point here. Are you saying all you're waiting for is death?

2) Calling mastin akin to confirmed and the "ohohoho" posts didn't really seem like trying to hold him accountable, they seemed like they were aimed to get him lynched. If you were trying to hold him accountable, why did you focus on the mod error more than you focused on him delaying yet another day?

3) If people were lynching you as a result of that, but they weren't.

4) it's not impossible to take initiative with pressure on you unless you're in the bottom 5% of players who feel obligated to respond to every piece of suspicion on then. It seems remarkably easy to take initiative especially when that pressure is composed entirely of shitty reasons or no reasons at all.

Imperium, what do you think my scumbuddies said to me in the QT last night?

This is a genuine question, I'd like to know what stances you think it's likely my scumbuddies are taking on me.

Tso - you say you don't like my reasons for scum reading you and that they're drivel, which is fine, and I'll address that in a moment, but why then when nacho reiterated his problems with you do you not address it, and then engage him with this pointless drivel of a deflection?

Are you allergic to actually addressing the points against you? I think you know the questions you began engaging in were pointless and distractions designed to make you look engaged.

[Imperium]

So, tso, when you characterize my actual valid points against you based on your behavior day one, are you trying to say that it's not a way you would behave as scum?

Because in open 580:tit for tat while both of your partners were being run up day one, you couldn't understand the cases on them and instead started tunneling and attacking town who were pushing to lynch them. Then after one of your partners was lynched day one and the other vigged night one, you started vehemently attacking and tunneling very obvious town who had pegged you as scum, in a similar manner as you have towards us. Their very valid arguments against you were bad, and they were bad, and you looked to someone who was townreading you and somewhat buddied them to get them to save you.

So, color me unimpressed when I see you behaving in an extremely similar fashion as another game in which you were scum. I've seen you as town before, this doesn't feel like it. Quite frankly I couldn't give two fucks how much trust you have in my slot. Were town, how you feel about us doesn't matter to me. How we feel about you does matter to me, and you've not done one tiny little itty bitty thing to make me think you're town. If you want us to back off, stop with the pointless distractions and weak questions you know don't go anywhere and aren't helpful and actually act town.

And in the mean time feel free to answer a question. Where do you think the missing scum kill went last night?

[Imperium]

This game feels weird for some reason. If I had to guess, it's probably because of scum hardcore lurking and town fighting amongst each other.
- TheWayItEnds ( 5 days 22 hours )
- Espeonage ( 2 days 11 hours )
- theaceofspades ( 8 days 0 hours )

Theaceospades probably is scum.

The way it ends maaaaaaaybe but not convinced.

Espy probably isn't.

[ZeL1nK]

Zlink can you kindly answer my damn questions?

thanks

-Z

Your questions are about as pointless as the salad menu at McDonalds. I mean, honestly... Who goes to McDonalds for a salad? I get that they're trying to give off an image of promoting healthy eating, and as laughable as that is to begin with, but who honestly goes into a McDonalds thinking, "yes, I want to eat something healthy today and I cannot think of a better place to go!"

Let's take for instance your question about why pikari is still alive. It's been two days since his claim. In that time, one of the night kills went to someone who scum likely rolecopped and knew was a doc. The only other opportunity they've had to kill pikari since his claim is last night, and that kill is missing. There are a number of reasons the kill could be missing. The fact that pikari is still alive is not a big deal in any way, shape or form. Thus, an incredibly pointless question.

All of your questions are like this, so I'm ignoring them. If you want answers, ask better questions.

(And all of them have posted elsewhere but not here since day start. Espy has all but disappeared from this game while posting elsewhere on site, which is annoying.)

This is really dirty. I've been watching the game, and there were all of a sudden

pages

of posts since I checked last night. Before that the posts were just dribbles. If things are slow and then there's a short term spurt of activity, you're always gonna have people who weren't interested during the dribbles. Why are you looking to ding people for being inactive in a game that was, until quite recently, kind of barely sputtering along?

Ah, yes, good point.

The reason there are players who have posted elsewhere on site but still not checked into the game this day phase is because... the posts in the previous pages were just "dribbles". Things are slow not because people aren't posting (you know, like people who still haven't checked in this day phase), but because of other magical reasons. You bring up a strong argument. It's not at all suspicious that we have people avoiding the game for no good reason.

Thank you for your valuable input on the game state.

Please continue to be a shining beacon of town thinking, Drixx.

Nah, I just wanted to see how willing you were to discuss your reads.

I mean, you called me scum for not doing so, yet you ...also refuse to do it. I guess we must both be scum, by your logic.

Um... what?

Like I get that you're not even trying to pretend to be town anymore (and it's hilarious that people like Heartless are giving you a free pass in spite of this), but I told you I am willing to discuss my reads and even

gave reasons

. What I said was that I would only be willing to go into copious amounts of detail if you first justify your reads with reasons of your own. I provided reasons. So far you've provided jack squat.

The way mafia works is when you call someone scum, you're supposed to back it up. It's not my job to write a thesis on why your scum reads are town if you can't even provide a single reason for thinking what you think. The burden of proof is on

you

, not me. I told you I'd go and quote all the things I think make Imperium is town after I see you come up with good reasons for thinking they're scum.

It does not surprise me in the least that you're trying to deflect this onto me rather than provide content.

Why anybody thinks you're town is beyond me.

[ZeL1nK]

I mean, maybe ZeL1nk has posted some tosh about interactions with Cephrir making me scum and you town? The thing about these interactions is that they haven't actually materialised yet. And I don't think they will, either.

I did bring up exactly what I was referring to. It was in the original wall I wrote. I didn't detail it with mounds and mounds of quotes to prove the point, but you never asked me to (and, quite frankly, if you did now, I wouldn't - because you're just going to dismiss them as invalid the same way you've dismissed every other point against you as invalid... though if someone else wants to discuss it and argue that your interactions with scum make you more likely town, then I will discuss it with them).

I'll requote the relevant parts:

Spoiler:

As far as interactions with currently flipped bad guys goes, I think Imperium did a good job summarizing what was suspicious about TSO's interactions with PV in 4582. I also think his justification for this (that he doesn't like pushing null reads) looks like a poor excuse for the awkward way he interacted with the PV wagon. This just looks like a bad guy who doesn't want to bus his buddies.

But what about Glazed Ham? Well, his only real interactions with Pork Chops can be summarized as thus: Calling him town, calling him town some more, getting angry that Mouthwatering Slices of Delicious Bacon isn't explaining a scum read on him. Yes, this is literally all of the somewhat meaningful interactions between the two. They never really engage each other, they never push each other (granted, with yesterday playing out the way it did, this isn't as strong a point as it could be), they never asked each other any meaningful questions, they never went into any depth on their reads on each other, and so on and so forth.

Yet TSO would have us believe that these interactions are oh-so-town. Because he yelled expletives and declared Gammon an unholy abomination after declaring him to be town all game? Yeah, that sure as heck could not have come from partners in crime. No way, no how.

None of these interactions are grand-slam definite scum interactions (this is rarely the case with interactions, anyway). But, at best, your interactions with flipped scum so far have been shady. You defended one against a wagon on them D1 and interacted very awkwardly with another.

Also it seems to me that you're repeatedly obfuscating "explaining things" with "providing a plethora of quotes". I can give reasons without doing a PBPA analysis. So could you, theoretically, but you refuse to.

[Imperium]

Ankamius, TSO, theaceofspades, farside22, ooba, Heartless, TheWayItEnds, Andrius

i agree
i also agree w/ this order

the game will end before you reach farside

What happened to this view of the game?

looking more

my desire to lynch anyone not in the roman neighborhood is at exactly zero

I'd really appreciate you articulating why. I told you I'd like you to try to articulate why you'd wouldn't be surprised if we flipped scum, but I don't think you did.

I spent some time looking over Imperium and I don't have anything I'm able to articulate yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were scum.

There's a lot less skepticism in your neighborhood than I think should rationally exist.

What type of skepticism do you think there should be in our nieghborhood that you aren't seeing?

I have a really hard time accepting that both of the above quotes are actually true statements.

[Drixx]

I think ZeL1nK just did more to convince me that it's scum than any amount of posts by other players could.

[ZeL1nK]

I am -trying- to take the initiative with this game.

Really? Where and how?

Because so far you've refused to talk about reasons for your scum reads and sheeped someone you're apparently scum-reading.

That doesn't seem like taking much initiative to me, but what do I know? Perhaps this is one of them new ways of taking initiative and I'm just not hip to what you youngsters are jiving to nowadays.

[ZeL1nK]

I would lynch Esp\Farside over TSO today. Interactions\positions\posting (or lack thereof) today seem to fit the scum profile.

I don't

really

think Espy is a bad guy here, even if he's lurking at the moment.

I'm pretty certain Farside('s slot) isn't a bad guy. I do not understand where scum reads on that slot are coming from.

[ZeL1nK]

I think ZeL1nK just did more to convince me that it's scum than any amount of posts by other players could.

Fantastic. Quite honestly, I do not care what you think because I don't think you're a competent enough player to know what you're talking about, as evident by your awkward defense of lurker slots for no good reason.

I would show you the meter that measures my care factor for your opinions on this game, but it's so far below zero that it's busted the meter.

[Drixx]

I think ZeL1nK just did more to convince me that it's scum than any amount of posts by other players could.

Fantastic. Quite honestly, I do not care what you think because I don't think you're a competent enough player to know what you're talking about, as evident by your awkward defense of lurker slots for no good reason.

I would show you the meter that measures my care factor for your opinions on this game, but it's so far below zero that it's busted the meter.

Oh dear. Nobody has ever insulted me before. What ever shall I do?

If you insist on blinding yourself to logic, that's your problem. This game has been stagnant for quite some time. Not only that, but assuming that you'll find scum amongst people with ridiculously long idle times in the game is just like asking to lose the game. The fact that you misconstrued what I was saying as a

defense

of anyone or anything is just proof of your idiocy. Do you

really

think scum are going to have 8 day lurking spells? On what planet does it make sense that someone gets randomly assigned to the informed majority, which most people admit they enjoy far more than being assigned as town, and then lets himself get outed by a huge period of lurking in just the one game while participating in others?

Did you even think about it at all before you decided to insult me, or do you routinely just flail around making random guesses until you, like a blind squirrel, stumble upon a nut?

[ZeL1nK]

You're incredibly sensitive if you consider that an insult.

[ZeL1nK]

Not only that, but assuming that you'll find scum amongst people with ridiculously long idle times in the game is just like asking to lose the game.

You should probably read.

[ZeL1nK]

I really do have no interest in talking to you about why you're wrong. So I'm not going to.

I don't care how that makes you feel about me.

Honestly, I do not care what you think at all.

[Drixx]

ZeL1nK that's rather poor form. If you think I've overlooked something important, the rational thing to do is point me to it. I take exception with the claim that I was

defending

anyone. I just found the idea that the remaining scum would all be super idle to be unlikely.

When I defend someone, you'll know it. It will look a lot like when I defended Mastin earlier.

[ZeL1nK]

I just found the idea that the remaining scum would all be super idle to be unlikely.

Nobody said that.

Not even Ooba.

[ZeL1nK]

Also I don't care what is or isn't poor form.

Your input so far this day phase has been... suggesting that lurking isn't necessarily scummy.

Yay. Thanks. I wasn't aware of this before, but now I am. Where we would be without you?

Do you know why I suggested one of the people not providing any content be vig-killed instead of suggesting we should blindly lynch one of the lurkers? I'll let you take a while to think about it and come up with an answer yourself.

In the mean time, if this is all you have to say about the game, then I really don't care about your input.

I don't care if this sounds harsh. I'm fed up with dealing with awful arguments in this game.

TSO should have been lynched already. He is plainly and obviously scum.