Mini 1652: Sweet Dreams - Game Over!

[evilpacman18]

I still think you're town based on my own reads, I'm just saying, something was going on there with either her and Prolapsed, her and you, or both.

[bji]

I'm not sure you have provided much reasoning for why SW would rage against scumbuddies. And furthermore, I didn't see SW yell at ProlapsedBrain during her freak out at all. She yelled

about

him, but not at him. She yelled

at

me.

This is a good observation. I think the different nature of her approach to the two of you probably suggests only one of you is scum and again I'm still leaning towards whoever just replaced into Prolapsed's slot. SW's yelling about Prolapsed kind of sounds like "how come you guys can see through my ruse but not his?" Do you not see that subtext? I mean I guess I can't expect you to see subtext that hints at the possibility of your being scum regardless of your alignment but it seems clear to me that the nature of the her breakdown has to do with more than just being found out.

I do see what you're saying, and I agree that her breakdown probably has to do with more than just being found out, and that there's a good chance that part of her frustration came from how she was being treated by a scum partner. I already agreed with that in post 1270. Where I have trouble is in going from "kind of sounds like" circumstantial evidence, to forming a stronger opinion, I just feel like the evidence is not quite strong enough for me to come completely on board with it.

I have my own "kind of sounds like" vote against TMJ going on here, and I explain it in post 1152. I guess you haven't caught up to that yet, but when you do, I would like to hear if you find it as compelling as the evidence against Prolapsed Brain.

Also, PB has been replaced and my assumption is we're going to start getting some real content out of that slot, which will help. I seriously doubt we'll ever get any abundance of data to form reads from out of the TMJ slot. So let's see how things play out from here with PB's replacement.

[pisskop]

Sup. Let me read through these 50 pages of

nonsense

lovely posts, should have something later today.

Hatkitty. Later This very day or later

this

day?

[pisskop]

Relevant parts are the begining of the game, my ISO, the end of D1, and then some of D2.

The TR:DL is you're fairly towny, Titus is still ac scummy scum, and we should Lynch one of 5 players.

[Aristophanes]

PK, with Ep's recent postings, are you still thinking them scummy?
You never did follow up on that really.

[West9]

SORRY FOR THE NOTEWALL I HOPE THIS ISN'T TERRIBLE TO READ.

I was about to say, why remove Gliffie?

I like Gliffie. Gliffie replaced Aero, who I also liked.

You should take a look at his iso. It reveals some pretty sketch interactions with Titus. A bunch of weird, waffle-y "Titus is bad but so is this wagon on her" things and some attempts to encourage a wagon swing towards PB and Ari. I wanted to look more into this after people told me about what they usually expected from scumtitus, but that didn't happen, so bleh.

Prolapsed should've been playing enough to know that both Ari and SW were really unlikely to be scum.

huh?

So we have a pretty limited pool of potential scum to complete a trio starring Titus and Prolapsed.

Shouldn't you be waiting for a flip before doing this?

With this post, EPM seems to be sort of just assuming that Prolapsed was scum with not conclusive evidence.

I literally just posted the first of a series

I think you post may have been too long. Apparently if a post takes more than 10 seconds to read, no one wants to read it.

Man, it's so annoying that you say stuff like this when you and VDA make long and redundant posts about how long and redundant you both are being.

Before I start, I wanted to point out that it occurs to me that there is probably a significant reason why SW's very frustrated freak out involved yelling at bji and Prolapsed in particular...[insert paragraph]

Reading into a freak-out that made her so frustrated that she decided to replace out doesn't seem like a helpful or fun thing to do.

Gliffie's concern with the wagon reads as legitimate even though it's unfortunate as a defense of now-flipped scum.

You should elaborate on this.Random question that just popped into my head: bji, why do you like Gillfie again?

the thing is bji seems always to work way too hard to be scum.

huh? p-edit: okay I guess bji knows what this means? This point is very lost on me.

Can you elaborate why you think me and victor is scum bussing?

Posts 1074, 1081, 1082, post 1084. I could elaborate but to be frank I'm getting really tired of making points that no one listens to or cares about.

Thats barely explanation. I think you deserve more attention.

YAWWNNNNNNN how about you play the game instead of telling people how they should be playing the game.

And the two conclusions I could draw are that either SW is really unethical or that it's not unethical for scum to replace out in situations like that. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt and assuming it's the latter.

it's the latter.

So, basically, evilpacman is setting up a Prolapsed/bji dichotomy? Based off of associated reads from Silverwolf's freakout? I don't like that at all. I'll leave my vote here, at least until Gliffieslot gets here.

[West9]

Random question that just popped into my head: bji, why do you like Gillfie again?

Whoops. This is a dumb question. Instead, you should comment on Gliffie's Titus interactions because I see them as being sketch.

[pisskop]

PK, with Ep's recent postings, are you still thinking them scummy?
You never did follow up on that really.

Maybe. I want Gliffie.

West wanting Gliffie is nice, but mah feelz.

vote: Gliffie

West, whats your opinion of Johnny and TJM?

[ChaosOmega]

Maybe I shouldn't have crossed out the word nonsense, this game has a lot of stupid shit.

I can't get shit from reading TMJ. I'm assuming English isn't your first language. Would have been a better vig target than Dooku IMO. bji reads...I guess robotic is the word. I didn't read through all his stuff, my eyes started glazing over. Need to get a stiff drink and sit down to do that at some point.

Ari isn't really setting me off one way or the other, but Nickname certainly did. Posts 93 and 153 read as scummy opportunistic bandwagon jumps, 163 is a wishy-washy defense of it, saying "for the most part" just looks like he's trying to detach from them slightly, and 204 reads over-defensive. Lapsa said he was scum, and in response he comes up with a reason why he would think that and pins it back on him.

evilpacman: What changed between 1011 and 1161, specifically about bji? Also, why aren't you voting for me?

pisskop: What does hatkitty mean? Also, what changed between 1063 and 1089?

[bji]

SORRY FOR THE NOTEWALL I HOPE THIS ISN'T TERRIBLE TO READ.

I was about to say, why remove Gliffie?

I like Gliffie. Gliffie replaced Aero, who I also liked.

You should take a look at his iso. It reveals some pretty sketch interactions with Titus. A bunch of weird, waffle-y "Titus is bad but so is this wagon on her" things and some attempts to encourage a wagon swing towards PB and Ari. I wanted to look more into this after people told me about what they usually expected from scumtitus, but that didn't happen, so bleh.

I looked at Aero's ISO again. I find nothing in it not to like. Reasonable arguments, reasonable suspicion, reasonable pushes. He pushed on pisskop because of pisskop's early weird comment about snow and mud, which was a little odd at that juncture given that he'd been so aggressive in his own defense and then suddenly got all appeas-y with that quote. So it was a reasonable thing to focus on. His subsequent questioning was solid. I just don't see anything not to like there.

Gliffie:

I don't detect anything horribly wrong with his postings but I do not like him as much as I liked Aero on second read. Also it was possibly weird that he encouraged me to make another shot at reads and said he'd be interested in them, and when those reads ended up being against SW he never said anything to me about them. He prompted me for reads and then clammed up when my reads ended up being against SW.

Also Gliffie does do some other weird-ish stuff, like saying he's interested in SilverWolf meta in post 503 but never pursuing that, also defending Titus post 847. Gliffie did seem awfully friendly to the SW/Titus slot on re-read.

West, what else were you thinking of regarding Gliffie's interaction with SW/Titus?

[bji]

the thing is bji seems always to work way too hard to be scum.

huh? p-edit: okay I guess bji knows what this means? This point is very lost on me.

Your guess is as good as mine. I had assumed he meant that he thinks that I try too hard to look scummy. Which obviously I would not do, I think he was being tongue in cheek and saying in a sarcastic way that I look scummy ... or something.

[bji]

PK, with Ep's recent postings, are you still thinking them scummy?
You never did follow up on that really.

Maybe. I want Gliffie.

West wanting Gliffie is nice, but mah feelz.

vote: Gliffie

West, whats your opinion of Johnny and TJM?

So I guess evilpacman18 has assuaged your suspicion and you're moving onto your second read?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Honestly not reading all that.

Gimme a tl;dr both of you.
Why, in one small paragraph, is the other scum (I assume you're arguing the other is scum)

The main thing is the way he tried to handwave my post away initially. When I started firing back ge didn't want to engage a scumread which is always suspicious. For example, he also tried to claim I had said nothing new, and tried to prove it by pulling odd sentences in paragraphs out of paragraphs while ignoring all the new content which is hella scummy. I think I summed it up best in the last post; if I was a top scumread he would have been keen to engage to build his case, and if he was merely suspicious he would have wanted to engage further to feel me out.

Jesus it's impossible to play a game these days without like at least half the playerlist replacing out

I once played in a game when no one replaced out. It's depressing how remarkable that seems.

Can you elaborate why you think me and victor is scum bussing?

Posts 1074, 1081, 1082, post 1084. I could elaborate but to be frank I'm getting really tired of making points that no one listens to or cares about.

You need to elaborate, because simple quoting posts with where we vote each other is a waste of time.

Here's 30-35.

Before I start, I wanted to point out that it occurs to me that there is probably a significant reason why SW's very frustrated freak out involved yelling at bji and Prolapsed in particular. Not just because she pegged them as the two people who were attacking her the most. It seems like more than that. The way I see it the two options are that she either freaked out at both her scumbuddies for picking her out as the weak link or freaked out at one of her scumbuddies for doing that and tried to cover it with a second freakout on someone else. I really think it's impossible that neither of Prolapsed or bji is scum. Of course rn I think it's Prolapsed but I don't find it difficult to hold onto my previous scumread of bji even though he was so important in getting SW/Titus lynched. Just a thought. I'm gonna try to read these 5 pages without tunneling Prolapsed... TOO much.

I can see this. SW has been scum before without replacing out under pressure. And I never understood what went so far over the line as to force her to run like that.

the thing is bji seems always to work way too hard to be scum. but maybe he just has a lot of time irl. Still leaning way more towards Prolapsed as the scum in the duo.

One thing is that effort is not always an indicator of alignment. Some players love being scum more than town. Some just want to spam the thread. Some players just post a lot in games, full stop.

Can you elaborate why you think me and victor is scum bussing?

Posts 1074, 1081, 1082, post 1084. I could elaborate but to be frank I'm getting really tired of making points that no one listens to or cares about.

Thats barely explanation. I think you deserve more attention.

Really, TMJ, you of all people are going to accuse someone of barely explaining themselves. Pure hypocrisy.

@Everyone

- I'm bored waiting TMJ to do nothing. Can everyone not voting him either move their votes or tell me why they don't want to lynch/lynch someone else?

The only explanations that I have been able to come up with for why she freaked out are, like your explanations, centered on the concept of being frustrated that she was being accused of being scum partly because of actions of a scum buddy. VDA fits in here because it's his initial points about her bad vote on Lapsa that she didn't seem to be able to escape, not being able to win the argument with him, and then when it seemed it had blown over, I came in and hammered on that point hard again. Another possiblity is, like you said, Prolapsed Brain, who kept voting for her pointlessly, going right back to her every time (and often voting repeatedly just to irritate her apparently). But I don't have strong conviction on either of these.

Really, your trying to say that of all explanations, SW replaced out because I bussed her. Why didn't she ragequit a week earlier or so earlier when I started pressuring her? Your timeline makes no sense.

[evilpacman18]

West: I'm trying really hard not to set up that dichotomy, and I wouldn't call it a strict dichotomy (it's not either/or, it's either or ,or and) but it was hard to avoid on every level while I was reading

[evilpacman18]

west, did you not also find my response to Titus "waffle-y?" I mean I kinda soft defended her in a similar manner to Gliffie. I thought she was town. That's what I read in Gliffie's defense of Titus too. Sincerity about not liking the wagon.

[evilpacman18]

Sure....

vote: Tjoe Min Ja

[ChaosOmega]

I really think it's impossible that neither of Prolapsed or bji is scum.

Sure....

vote: Tjoe Min Ja

Mind explaining for me? Was it just that VDA asked really nicely?

[pisskop]

@Hatkitty

- wanted to do that one more time. Just trying to see some personality out of you, get a feel for you. Your avatar looks like a hooded cat from a glance.
- I decided that I may have taken Titus' reads to include a bus that may not have been there. So I said 1089. TJM would be a good vig shot. And may emd up lynched. I have no special atatchment to him.

[pisskop]

Anywho Chaos. Youre consider yourself caught up?

[bji]

The only explanations that I have been able to come up with for why she freaked out are, like your explanations, centered on the concept of being frustrated that she was being accused of being scum partly because of actions of a scum buddy. VDA fits in here because it's his initial points about her bad vote on Lapsa that she didn't seem to be able to escape, not being able to win the argument with him, and then when it seemed it had blown over, I came in and hammered on that point hard again. Another possiblity is, like you said, Prolapsed Brain, who kept voting for her pointlessly, going right back to her every time (and often voting repeatedly just to irritate her apparently). But I don't have strong conviction on either of these.

Really, your trying to say that of all explanations, SW replaced out because I bussed her. Why didn't she ragequit a week earlier or so earlier when I started pressuring her? Your timeline makes no sense.[/quote]

Because having to defend you was one thing; but having to deal wth the argument again when someone else brought it up and came after her hard on it, after she thought she was already past it, was another entirely. Ever heard of "the straw that broke the camel's back"?

[bji]

Sure....

vote: Tjoe Min Ja

That's L-1 by the way, if my math is correct.

[evilpacman18]

I really think it's impossible that neither of Prolapsed or bji is scum.

Sure....

vote: Tjoe Min Ja

Mind explaining for me? Was it just that VDA asked really nicely?

Basically... Scum lynched on D1 = great time for policy lynch D2. He's not trying and can't really be read without any input. And he's the only player this is true for. Might as well separate wheat from chaff

[Aristophanes]

I really think it's impossible that neither of Prolapsed or bji is scum.

Sure....

vote: Tjoe Min Ja

Mind explaining for me? Was it just that VDA asked really nicely?

Basically... Scum lynched on D1 = great time for policy lynch D2. He's not trying and can't really be read without any input. And he's the only player this is true for. Might as well separate wheat from chaff

I'm honestly more alright with this vote than I probably should be, but TMJ is just going to be a wagon every day if this keeps up and its better to lynch now than close to lylo.

[bji]

If we don't know the makeup of this game, how will we know when it's LYLO? Both pisskop and Aristophanes have made statements that imply that we'll know when we're in lylo. How will we know?

[Aristophanes]

If we don't know the makeup of this game, how will we know when it's LYLO? Both pisskop and Aristophanes have made statements that imply that we'll know when we're in lylo. How will we know?

We don't, but games are balanced a certain way that you can guess when you're close, if not there.

In a game of this size, I expect 3 scum.
If it's a mostly Goon game as Titus hinted at, possibly a third party as well, though likely underpowered, not an SK or anything.

It's not that we

know

when Lylo will happen, just that with experience one can make an educated guess.