New York 182 - Game Over

[Gorkington]

I think there's more momentum behind MD right now.
ZZZX is something to look into D4 IMO unless MD does something amazing.

[zMuffinMan]

Oh Thor in post #29, why do you ask Choof questions about his RVS vote on a player he knows from another game? Why? I would like to know you're reasoning behind that line of questioning that seems at best useless in the RVS stage especially towards a newbie. Do you usually choose what could be termed easy targets?

Thor, why would a player choose to jump on a flash wagon? Does not that signify sheep mentality and more suspicious are those that jump on such wagons.

Thor, who is my bud?

this one isn't technically a question about choof, but it pertains to the conversation

423: a summary of her issues with thor; specifically attacking choof early on while not paying any attention to anyone voting varsoon

430 and 431: questioning the attack on copper on the basis of the choof read.

and then there's 511 where she summarises the whole thing

TL;DR
(IN CAPS FOR GOOD MEASURE)

THE FOCUS IN YOUR EARLY POSTS ON CHOOF INSTEAD OF PAYING ATTENTION TO ANY OF THE PEOPLE VOTING VARSOON WAS THE REASON SHE TOOK ISSUE WITH YOU.

SHE QUESTIONED YOU BECAUSE OF THIS.

[Gorkington]

Hi muffin.
Thor is probably town.

[Thor665]

Click on the spoiler - I added some thoughts;

Thor, much of your conversation particularly with me revolves around choof.

Here it's straight from your ISO, I stopped at a point because I got bored but this is more then enough to work off. Oh and if you need me to bold all the times choof shows up let me know:

Spoiler:

Or...I guess you could avoid that wagon and keep doing that.

Why do you townread Varsoon? Or is it that you scumread Elusive, or scumread some people voting fro Varsoon (though then I would presume you'd vote them...?)

Your vote doesn't seem to make much sense.
Clarify?

@Sakura - good posting. Let's just random speed lynch Varsooon and see what happens.

This is me asking choof a question.
1 point

do you love me now, sakura?

6 is a good number, why would you ruin it
why are you doing this
why did you let it habben
ids habbending
y dozen u stob dis

Varsoon is at L-3, aren't you going to tell me why you townread him yet?

This is me not talking to choof or to anyone about choof.
1 point
1 - not talking about choof at all point

So based on mod comments varsoon must be fake claiming? Therefor either scummy or scummy? Always weirded out when things seem.to.easy.

I'll remember that after any cop claims?
Weird.
Also, why aren't you weighing in on the back and forth between Copper and I as regards the playstyle of your bud as scum?

Thor, why would a player choose to jump on a flash wagon? Does not that signify sheep mentality and more suspicious are those that jump on such wagons.

There are many reasons someone may choose not to hop on a flashwagon - that is why I asked him for his reasons. I actually do not find either sheep or lone wolves particularly inherently scummy until alignment flips start happening, and care more about forcing people to make such stands so I can read the attitudes later.
Where I'm lost is why you're asking me "why would you want to know his reasons?"
That question literally sounds like it is based on the concept that *not* understanding motivation is a core component of scumhunting. Like...you're asking me *my* reasons, why then is it unusual to you that I'd ask him for his reasons?
Where is this line of questioning going?
Seriously?

Yeah, okay, fine,

I'm not hated.

I lied about it.

I panicked when I was being run up for lynch and wanted to do something that would maybe ensure that I'd get to live at least until close-to-lylo, so it was the first negative utility thing I thought of.
Ya caught me.
I'm not scum, though. I'm just a Smurfing idiot.

[snip]

Now that

that

embarrassment is out of the way, I want you guys to be really real with me;
you gonna lynch my ass now that I've come clean?
you gonna vote for me now that I've straight up told you the truth?
we gonna have another goddamn repeat of HipHop Mafia or Advance Wars, here?

Yes, I am going to vote you now that you've told the "truth".
For starters, I'd like to force a claim from you.
As secondary I do think you still look scummy.
As tertiary....yeah, weird reaction from you - it deserves some suspicion and probably your death.
I'm unfamiliar with your meta references - feel free to describe your habit of lying under pressure as town to me though, I am willing to listen.
Also, do you still hold the same town/scum opinions of those on your wagon? I remember you calling Anti scummy...apparently for *correctly* figuring out you were a liar...why did you do that?

You are ignoring one part of the argument, that I don't think he is the kind to mirror himself.

How do you divine this conclusion?

Why did you select one part of the answer to criticize? Are you impying the read is made up?

Yes, i am pretty sure that is what I'm implying which is why I'm asking you to defend the methods you used to create the answer.
Why...is that a problem for some reason?

This is me responding to her questions and stances about choof.
1 point
1 - not talking about choof at all point
1 - answering questions point

@Gorkinton
No empty threat mate, the way you are approaching the game with those cookie cutter scumreads, you are scum because you post a smile, clearly buddying up, you are scum because you answered the question, clearly overexplaining, you are scum because you scumread me back and I am an easy lynch because I was being mean, clearly scum looking for an easy lynch, without any kind of analysis or thought about what the actual content of the posts is and what other different (and I think well explained) motivations I had is useless and dangerous town to leave around or scum looking for superficially scummy BS, either way you are not going to help me win.

@Gork

Cooper sucks. Sure.
You suck worse for the misrep - I'm on his side on that point.

This is me not talking to choof or to anyone about choof.
1 point
2 - not talking about choof at all point
1 - answering questions point

Thor, who is my bud?

Choof.

This is me answering a direct question about a scumread on Elusive wherein choof happens to be the answer (which makes sense considering her obvious defense of choof at this stage paired with my scumread).
1 point
2 - not talking about choof at all point
2 - answering questions point

PS. Copper is town because he looked up choof's one complete game on here and saw that he was town and accurately described his meta. So copper reads town to me unless Many Extreme Things.

I mean, and you say this - so I thought you might have an opinion on Copper's take on how scum Choof would play.
It's sort of a discussion, y'know?

This is me scumhunting Copper. Yes, it's about a read I think is bad - but the point is that I think Copper made up the read (something he, basically, admitted to later)
1 point
3 - not talking about choof at all point
2 - answering questions point

I think that if Copper assumed that choof was a newbie with only one game he might make the conclusion that it would be difficult for him to change his meta drastically.

Well, Copper is now going with 'wild assumption' as his reason for said presumption. So I suppose you are theory right on that.
That said - you seemed to indicate awareness of Choof's playstyle - have you seen his scumgame? If so, do you agree with Copper's take on it?

"Heavyweights" - anyone not a newbie. Like anyone who flashwagoned Varsoon before he fake claimed a really stupid fake claim lol.

Heavyweights like Boonskies, Sakura, SilverWolf, and pisskop then?
Or Copper...who you seem to be aware that I'm digging at?
Heavyweights like that?
I think Anti is the only one on there relatively close to me in length of term here.
Does this call make sense to you? It doesn't make sense to me.

Hint: there's a reason why so many players made comments about me and my playstyle. As far as longevity and rep on site, I am probably heavier than a large percentage of the players in this game. Basically by definition I will be attacking players considered 'weaker' than me and it would actually be strange of me to try to avoid doing so and deleterious to the effectiveness of my town game.

I do not see why you seem focused on Choof and then by correlation Copper.

I don't think I am focused on Choof - I had one interaction with him, and then he replaced out before I had made, like, my fourth post of the game, am I missing something there?
I agree I am focused on Copper because I think his read about Choof reads as fake - but that's a long ways from being focused on Choof. Frankly, the only reason I'm still discussing the slot is because Copper is dodgy and you keep asking me about my thoughts as regards Choof.
Want to prove me wrong here?
You sound like you're reading a different game than I am playing. Why is that?

What do I now though, I only have one completed game on me.

Aw, snap, sorry, it's scummy of me to question you then.

Theoretically you spotted a call to make, and applied some sort of judgement to it - describe that process.

The process is the same for every read I make, I try to profile a player based on what he is showing, does he play to win or to have fun, is he calculating or impulsive, does he get lynched often, how good is his knowledge of theory... and then I decide if the mindset he is showing is more likely to be his town mindset or his scum mindset.

And you decided it based on the idea that he wouldn't play like his town mindset, correct?
What led to that conclusion?
Is it just "aggressiveness"? Was that it? You mentioned the aggressiveness earlier.

What should I know going in?

There was a flash wagon on Varsoon.
He claimed Hated.
Anti lead the charge in calling the claim bull-hooey.
Varsoon called him scum for it and voted him.
Varsoon then clarified that the claim *was* bull-hooey and he had lied.
After having it pointed out, he moved his vote off Anti and claimed him as a town read.
I called that scummy.
People wandered around and screamed at each other.

also varsoon is still

um

:/

"not being lynched."
Yes, I noticed.
Why don't you vote him - it would be good.

Doublevoter is verifiable, for one.
Hated/loved is meh. I really doubt he is actually hated

His claim is absolutely confirmable. Run him up to L-1.

I don't buy the b/s about how he magically "loses" the modifier in LyLo.

I agree.
You should vote him.

This mention is me answering her accusation that I am focused on Choof.
1 point
3 - not talking about choof at all point
3 - answering questions point

I think that if Copper assumed that choof was a newbie with only one game he might make the conclusion that it would be difficult for him to change his meta drastically.

Well, Copper is now going with 'wild assumption' as his reason for said presumption. So I suppose you are theory right on that.
That said - you seemed to indicate awareness of Choof's playstyle - have you seen his scumgame? If so, do you agree with Copper's take on it?

"Heavyweights" - anyone not a newbie. Like anyone who flashwagoned Varsoon before he fake claimed a really stupid fake claim lol.

Heavyweights like Boonskies, Sakura, SilverWolf, and pisskop then?
Or Copper...who you seem to be aware that I'm digging at?
Heavyweights like that?
I think Anti is the only one on there relatively close to me in length of term here.
Does this call make sense to you? It doesn't make sense to me.

Hint: there's a reason why so many players made comments about me and my playstyle. As far as longevity and rep on site, I am probably heavier than a large percentage of the players in this game. Basically by definition I will be attacking players considered 'weaker' than me and it would actually be strange of me to try to avoid doing so and deleterious to the effectiveness of my town game.

I do not see why you seem focused on Choof and then by correlation Copper.

I don't think I am focused on Choof - I had one interaction with him, and then he replaced out before I had made, like, my fourth post of the game, am I missing something there?
I agree I am focused on Copper because I think his read about Choof reads as fake - but that's a long ways from being focused on Choof. Frankly, the only reason I'm still discussing the slot is because Copper is dodgy and you keep asking me about my thoughts as regards Choof.
Want to prove me wrong here?
You sound like you're reading a different game than I am playing. Why is that?

What do I now though, I only have one completed game on me.

Aw, snap, sorry, it's scummy of me to question you then.

Theoretically you spotted a call to make, and applied some sort of judgement to it - describe that process.

The process is the same for every read I make, I try to profile a player based on what he is showing, does he play to win or to have fun, is he calculating or impulsive, does he get lynched often, how good is his knowledge of theory... and then I decide if the mindset he is showing is more likely to be his town mindset or his scum mindset.

And you decided it based on the idea that he wouldn't play like his town mindset, correct?
What led to that conclusion?
Is it just "aggressiveness"? Was that it? You mentioned the aggressiveness earlier.

What should I know going in?

There was a flash wagon on Varsoon.
He claimed Hated.
Anti lead the charge in calling the claim bull-hooey.
Varsoon called him scum for it and voted him.
Varsoon then clarified that the claim *was* bull-hooey and he had lied.
After having it pointed out, he moved his vote off Anti and claimed him as a town read.
I called that scummy.
People wandered around and screamed at each other.

also varsoon is still

um

:/

"not being lynched."
Yes, I noticed.
Why don't you vote him - it would be good.

Doublevoter is verifiable, for one.
Hated/loved is meh. I really doubt he is actually hated

His claim is absolutely confirmable. Run him up to L-1.

I don't buy the b/s about how he magically "loses" the modifier in LyLo.

I agree.
You should vote him.

This mention is her re-quoting the same post as above
1 point
3 - not talking about choof at all point
3 - answering questions point

So maybe instead of calling me a liar, get your facts straight cupcake.

And that was her case.

And you want me to buy that as "legit"

[Gorkington]

Donot be upset.
Guy is probably town.

Tracing his thoughts on ZZZX felt very natural. His vote being there vs Mnem makes sense to me.
He was a counterwagon to scum. If it's multiball then *shrug*. We'll find out eventually and come back to this. If you want to endlessly get angry trying to sort through Thor by shouting at him you'll probably just end up hating yourself and you're potentially preventing Thor from spending more time on actually scumhunting right now if he is town.
I don't see any good reason to push this right now IMO.

[Thor665]

I actually did 47 wrong - so it changes the final tally to

2 point
2 - not talking about choof at all point
3 - answering questions point

[Thor665]

Sure - but are you claiming that's a valid issue?

that was her entire issue with you

at least before you started questioning copper on the basis of the choof read

WAS IT A VALID ISSUE?

[Thor665]

I'm not debating what her bad/scummy case was.
What I'm debating is you having an issue with me calling it bad/scummy.

[Thor665]

Muffin - of your first 4 posts, 3 are about NS.
Is this a valid case to attack you over?

[Thor665]

I even have the advantage of calling your posts defensive and him flipped scum - valid case?

[zMuffinMan]

If you want to endlessly get angry trying to sort through Thor by shouting at him you'll probably just end up hating yourself and you're potentially preventing Thor from spending more time on actually scumhunting right now if he is town.

i don't see how i'm preventing him from scum hunting, given i've been saying i want to drop it

i'm just not going to bother responding, i guess

[zMuffinMan]

actually, one last thing because 2558 and 2559 are borderline retarded:

whether or not it's a valid case, i wouldn't suggest you're necessarily a scummy liar liar pants on fire for thinking there could be a point there

because, you know... i'm not a fucking moron

(but that's just me)

good night

[Thor665]

actually, one last thing because 2558 and 2559 are borderline retarded:

whether or not it's a valid case, i wouldn't suggest you're necessarily a scummy liar liar pants on fire for thinking there could be a point there

because, you know... i'm not a Smurfing moron

(but that's just me)

good night

No, back up there big dawg.

You're the one defending her case as valid.

Are we now repositioning to my response was too intense?
Just let me know - the angle of debate is now not that her case was good, but that my attack on it was overwrought - correct?

[Thor665]

Or i her case both good and my attack too intense?

[Thor665]

i'm just not going to bother responding, i guess

It's because you can see the walls closing in.

[ZZZX]

Can drop it.
If I'm motivated I'll take a look later.
Only thing that really needs to happen is MD's next post.
If it's a lame "uhhhh guys im stil not playing" post and not a catchup/a replaceout then we should murder the Smurf out of him.

Let's add ZZZX to that - because he's doing the exact same thing.

I know I am guilty >.<
but Let me ask you a question. Do you actually think I am scum (outside of lurking)? because it changes if its a pure lurking thing or an actual scum read.

I got that you dont like when my vote moved between you and anti. Right?

[Gorkington]

Why is this what you choose to focus on?
Who do you think is scum?
Why aren't you voting?

[Seohyun]

soooo.... guys

what do i win post game if copper turns out to be scum (not-town, however you want to parse it?)

Pride, I guess


All of zzzx's most recent posts (besides the content-less ones) have been asking why people are scumreading him/if they are.
What do those the responses mean to you? Can you say anything else

[Seohyun]

Also UNVOTE:

A gut feeling from a quick read really proved inaccurate as I can't find an accurate accusation of thors reads

VOTE: Antihero
I don't see the scumread on Seohyun either and after our little discussion he went back to lurking unless needled by Thor.

This post pushed me to quickly skin throu anti hero's iso and...

Its even worse than mine...

VOTE: Anti hero

^Still don't like these

Skimmed last few pages and will VOTE: NS

I honestly have trouble reading a game if I didnt actively chat with people there to understand them. so let me see....
@seo is there any reason except for my uselessness for voting me generally?
@Gork same thing
@boon thoughts generally on the game? I believe you are town so i wana hear your point of view
@thor does your anti hero read still stands?


generally the NS vote is a near deadline one tbh. Misactivity in a game can be cus of many reasons. I know that first hand.

The questioning on scumreads with nothing to follow up.
He did vote for ns though, even when the ns and mnem wagons were pretty even.

can you be kind enough to explain what you mean?

More questions with nothing to substantiate it

[Seohyun]

Actually nvm, I was just looking at the votecount on the previous page,
he voted ns right when the wagon was picking up steam with copper and gork voting ns and then he voted ns right after me

[Flubbernugget]

Can drop it.
If I'm motivated I'll take a look later.
Only thing that really needs to happen is MD's next post.
If it's a lame "uhhhh guys im stil not playing" post and not a catchup/a replaceout then we should murder the Smurf out of him.

Let's add ZZZX to that - because he's doing the exact same thing.

I know I am guilty >.<
but Let me ask you a question. Do you actually think I am scum (outside of lurking)? because it changes if its a pure lurking thing or an actual scum read.

I got that you dont like when my vote moved between you and anti. Right?

*prays to vig*

[Marquis]

yo varsoon if you have another shot you know who i want you to get rid of with it

[Thor665]

but Let me ask you a question. Do you actually think I am scum (outside of lurking)? because it changes if its a pure lurking thing or an actual scum read.

I got that you dont like when my vote moved between you and anti. Right?

You listed my issue with you paired with your lurk - do you understand my stance now?

[droog]

Sorry for shameless lurking
Will begin ketchup

[droog]

actually, one last thing because 2558 and 2559 are borderline retarded:

whether or not it's a valid case, i wouldn't suggest you're necessarily a scummy liar liar pants on fire for thinking there could be a point there

because, you know... i'm not a fucking moron

(but that's just me)

good night

Really didn't understant
The point this was trying I make