NY 183 - Apocalypse Mafia

[elusive]

I'm also going to ask players not to bring up ongoing game stuff at all and in any way because my mouth moves faster then my brain and I'm really actually trying to stay within rules in this and future games.

[Rubicon]

I think Garmr's probably town for that last post.

[Boonskiies]

Do you have anything on the Boon wagon, jbomber, or Skold?

Can you give me an example of a game where Grib played like this as town?

The Boon wagon is bullshit. Boon is Boon. Wait till Day 2, if he really is Scum, he'll fall apart and slip soon enough.

I don't know JBomber or Skold, reading them will come much later.

I went through Grib's entire meta, every game. Everything here seems like his normal everyday Town game to me.

Lol? I don't get what you're getting at here. I don't slip as scum. I actually play a pretty decent scum game...although, I guess you could just be saying that because...you know, setting yourself up for reasoning to jump on a wagon at anytime, right scummy?

Oh, and @Kitz...sorry, my bad. I thought you were actually town because I thought it was a cat. Now that I know it's actually a fox, you're totally scum.
So, yeah.

I mean, Megalo's also been pretty inactive, why hasn't anyone talked about that at all? I saw the post on me needing to post. geesh...there are others. That must of been the longest hour of catching up had I ever seen it.

[Boonskiies]

Anywho, I don't actually find you scummy, Kitz.

@elusive - I am one of those players people like to early lynch, because I play a pretty good scum game, and my early town game sucks, so either way. But my late game town game is actually pretty damn strong for the most part, if I do say so myself. There are occasions where I mess up, a la Masquerade where Nero was such a huge scumfuck. What I feel what has not been said is I was actually the one who got lynched in that game, technically meaning Nero fucked up. Not I.

Anywho, elusive. Yes. I am someone who inherently looks scummy and gets wagon'd fast. Scum usually use that to their advantage.

[Boonskiies]

I'm going to take a look at the Boon/Jbomb wagons. Seems off to me.

[Boonskiies]

Kitz, will you do something moderately towny if I ask nicely?

Boonskiies, if you post sometime in the next 24 hours, maybe I won't consider you completely scumfirmed.

bewilderbeast and Megalo will probably get replaced so they don't matter.

Oh, you did comment on Megalo...my bad...haha.

[Boonskiies]

@nero- My ability to see past my bias and the fact he acted similarly when I was scum pushing him day 1 in masquerade.

@skold- I do not understand what you are asking can you word it in a easy to understand way for me.

I like this, and didn't notice that. I'd like to point out, I was pretty much not posting in that game much either. Occasionally Day 1, a burst in day 2 only, and it wasn't until Day 3 when I became a major player in the game. It's just where I'm comfortable at. I mainly play Mini Normals, and my Day 1's are weak there, and I usually can never read people. When I bring it up to a large normal, OI!! WHEN I JOIN A LARGE THEME GAME!!! AAAAAAAAH. But yeah, food for thought. When I'm here early game, I don't know what to think, I go crazy Boon. That's why crazy Boon exists.

[Ricastle]

Seriously questioning my townread on Garmr now. Peace is town for 581.

@Elusive/Dave: The reason the jbomber wagon grew so fast is because I believe pretty much nobody is townreading him, and the case is good. Him replacing out just when the wagon grew to L-4 added fuel to the fire, if anything.

[Creative]

I think the wagon built too fast, especially with the slot being replaced. This makes me suspect there are scum on the list, but I don't like to use pre-flip VCA.

Why are you coming with this observation? what direction do you want to push?

[Ricastle]

Hold the phone.

2) Prods will only be handed out starting 2 days from day start. If I feel you haven't responded to prods given earlier in a satisfactory way, I reserve the right to force replace you.

Mod, what would you consider an unsatisfactory way to respond to a prod?

[Kitz]

Anywho, I don't actually find you scummy, Kitz.

Is there a reason, or just gut?

Actually I'm vanilla townie but I be replacing out.

@Mod replace me out

Sooo you replace out, claim VT and the next guy who will replace you will be VT under your claim?
If the claim's wrong, it'll backfire, and by claiming at all, you're already giving clues about roles to scum.

Seems rather too easy to go under the radar.

[PeaceBringer]

Actually I'm vanilla townie but I be replacing out.

@Mod replace me out

oh good lord...

[davesaz]

I think the wagon built too fast, especially with the slot being replaced. This makes me suspect there are scum on the list, but I don't like to use pre-flip VCA.

Why are you coming with this observation? what direction do you want to push?

I don't know yet -- if I did, then I'd push it. Also at my age, it's a prop to remember what I was thinking at the time.

[elusive]

I guess my thoughts about claiming VT are that you never claim VT as VT because that narrows scums pool of targets to NK. It's better actually if scum think your a PR and target you or hostile to you rather then an actual PR. VT is basically set up to be a heroic martyr if they can pull it off.

[Nero Cain]

What I feel what has not been said is I was actually the one who got lynched in that game, technically meaning Nero fucked up. Not I.

Yeah ok, if you want to say that to make yourself feel better than go for it it but considering that

YOU

voted me right off the bat and wouldn't change your vote you'd have a hard time finding anyone that didn't think you fucked up.

[Boonskiies]

@Kitz - I don't know. it's just gut. but there's absolutely no reason anyone should believe you are scum at this point.

@Nero - k

[davesaz]

@Elusive: it is strategically sound for VT to prefer their own lynch/NK to a PR's, but psychologically some people prefer/need to try to survive whether it's the right strategic move or not.

@Nero: the immediate past should be part of meta, but don't let it dominate too much

[Rubicon]

If Garmr were scum, the VT claim puts his replacement in an awkward position by making it harder to fake claim later, especially if watched or tracked targeting someone.

[Ricastle]

Far as I see it, if Garmr

were

scum, I think he'd be more concerned with claiming anything before replacing out due to the circumstances at the time (being pressured by like 3 people). He saw what happened to jbomber on just the previous page, so I'd expect he try to keep himself from sharing the same fate.

On one hand yes, claiming VT boxes in his successor, but on the other, there's nothing else safe to claim for scum at this point. I think the whole thing's null overall.

[PointYBagelS]

@Elusive: it is strategically sound for VT to prefer their own lynch/NK to a PR's, but psychologically some people prefer/need to try to survive whether it's the right strategic move or not.

@Nero: the immediate past should be part of meta, but don't let it dominate too much

It is never strategically sound for a VT to prefer their own lynch to anyone's but an innocent child/ironclad confirmed PR (neither of which will ever be lynched anyway). Allowing yourself to get lynched as VT means lynching confirmed town (in your perspective). It is always better to lynch someone else (who isn't confirmed town) than it is to get lynched. The idea of not claiming VT is to bait nightkills,

not

lynches. If you're at L-1 and someone asks for a claim, you should do it to prevent the lynch. It is pretty much

never

a strategic move to allow yourself to get lynched as VT.

That being said, if we're going to talk general strategy instead of scumhunt we might as well lynch now. If we're not actively scumhunting/townhunting, we gain nothing by extending the day. (so town points to ricastle for doing just that)

To that end, I'll try to come out with a reads list later, to facilitate some more discussion.

[Ricastle]

Honestly, there really is nothing else to do today until jbomber and Garmr's replacements show up, which is what I'm waiting for.

[Rubicon]

VOTE: megalo

come out and play

[PointYBagelS]

At this rate, megalo will probably be replaced too.

[Nero Cain]

meglo flaked out another game I am in so prob just needs a replace

[davesaz]

As usual, the wrong part of my post gets focused on. Maybe I'm just including too much. The real point of the comment is that we can't read the slot based solely on the claim / replace out. To reiterate:

Psychologically some people prefer/need to try to survive whether it's the right strategic move or not.

We should act like the claim didn't happen.

That being said, if we're going to talk general strategy instead of scumhunt we might as well lynch now. If we're not actively scumhunting/townhunting, we gain nothing by extending the day. (so town points to ricastle for doing just that)

You could try not replying, if you'd prefer to stay away from strategy. I'm going to refrain from extending the discussion on true VT claims, even though it approaches being physically painful to leave a fallacy unchallenged.