NY 183 - Apocalypse Mafia

[davesaz]

I'd like to hear from Skold a paraphrase of why the jbomber wagon was started in the first place.

[Creative]

Davesaz

Spoiler:

I think the wagon built too fast, especially with the slot being replaced. This makes me suspect there are scum on the list, but I don't like to use pre-flip VCA.

Why are you coming with this observation? what direction do you want to push?

I don't know yet -- if I did, then I'd push it. Also at my age, it's a prop to remember what I was thinking at the time.

You know, everytime i read a post i think "why is this person sayin this at this time?"

The fact that you say there is scum in a wagon sounds wierd to me, because it does not say anything about the wagon target. It raises suspicion on people who hop on it while you take no instance on the subject, what do you think of

Jbomb

slot alignment? Who do you think are the scum on the vote?

[davesaz]

I think I know why some people are scum reading jbomb. If the reason is what I think, I strongly disagree that the reason is always alignment indicative. And falsely making a case out of that reason is itself extremely scummy, because it's a reason that gets sheeped by lazy town. If there is some other reason they're scum reading the jbomb, then I'd like to know what it is, in case I missed it. In either case, I'd like to see what the replacement posts before we lynch it. If it's a scum slot, there will probably be another more reliable tell that we can use.

As to the why, I'm the type of town who wants to identify actually scummy behavior before I lynch someone. I don't pull a read out of a place the sun doesn't shine and toss it out there to see if it sticks. And I hate naked voting with a passion, because if you let people do it the scum can hide there effortlessly.

[Skold]

I'd like to hear from Skold a paraphrase of why the jbomber wagon was started in the first place.

Because he hasn't done anything useful, sheeped me and hasn't posted much since then. Why me though?
pedit: Sheeping and doing nothing useful is enough for a wagon. I don't know about a lynch though and we still have plenty time to decide.

[Creative]

I think I know why some people are scum reading jbomb. If the reason is what I think, I strongly disagree that the reason is always alignment indicative. And falsely making a case out of that reason is itself extremely scummy, because it's a reason that gets sheeped by lazy town. If there is some other reason they're scum reading the jbomb, then I'd like to know what it is, in case I missed it. In either case, I'd like to see what the replacement posts before we lynch it. If it's a scum slot, there will probably be another more reliable tell that we can use.

As to the why, I'm the type of town who wants to identify actually scummy behavior before I lynch someone. I don't pull a read out of a place the sun doesn't shine and toss it out there to see if it sticks. And I hate naked voting with a passion, because if you let people do it the scum can hide there effortlessly.

I like this post more than your previous ones, still, if there is something you don´t like, you should step up and do something about it.

That been said, i agree, the newcomer must speak.

UNVOTE:

[PointYBagelS]

I'd like to hear from Skold a paraphrase of why the jbomber wagon was started in the first place.

Because he hasn't done anything useful, sheeped me and hasn't posted much since then. Why me though?
pedit: Sheeping and doing nothing useful is enough for a wagon. I don't know about a lynch though and we still have plenty time to decide.

There's plenty of sheep on the jbomber wagon as well. What's different about them?

As usual, the wrong part of my post gets focused on. Maybe I'm just including too much. The real point of the comment is that we can't read the slot based solely on the claim / replace out. To reiterate:

Psychologically some people prefer/need to try to survive whether it's the right strategic move or not.

We should act like the claim didn't happen.

That being said, if we're going to talk general strategy instead of scumhunt we might as well lynch now. If we're not actively scumhunting/townhunting, we gain nothing by extending the day. (so town points to ricastle for doing just that)

You could try not replying, if you'd prefer to stay away from strategy. I'm going to refrain from extending the discussion on true VT claims, even though it approaches being physically painful to leave a fallacy unchallenged.

I find it disturbing that your suggestion is to not reply. I'm just mentioning that I think the discussion should go elsewhere. By not replying I worry that the discussion will continue along useless lines, which can only help scum.

[davesaz]

Why me though?

I am trying to figure out who actually started it. Your vote seemed to be first. And I'm looking for something specific.

To reply to creative, if I come right out and say what, then it will ruin the effect.

[davesaz]

I'd like to hear from Skold a paraphrase of why the jbomber wagon was started in the first place.

PointYBagels and Rubicon are up next.

[Shinobi]

Vote Count

jbomber732

(7):

Skold, Errantparabola, Ricastle, Nero Cain, PointYbagelS, PeaceBringer, Garmr

Skold

(2):

elusive, Grib

elusive

(1):

bewilderbeast

Boonskiies

(1):

davesaz

Klingoncelt

(1):

Boonskiies

PointYbagelS

(1):

Klingoncelt

Nero Cain

(1):

jbomber732

Megalo

(1):

Rubicon

Not Voting

(3):

Kitz, Megalo, Creative

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-04-20 09:00:00)

[PointYBagelS]

I'd like to hear from Skold a paraphrase of why the jbomber wagon was started in the first place.

PointYBagels and Rubicon are up next.

Jbomber's wagon was started by the fact that he did something rather scummy (Admitted to not voting nero so he wouldn't attract attention, then talked about how he is playing a very honest game). Essentially he was playing like a sheep. Not doing anything on his own unless the town indicated it wouldn't be "against the grain". This combined with the lurking made just about everyone scumread (or at least not townread him).

Surely you can read the thread to see how the wagon was started? Do you think this wagon was scum-driven?

[Klingoncelt]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Davesaz


I don't know if he's derpfocused on the mistreatment of poor innocent JBomb or if he's going way over the top in defending his Scumbuddy, but it's skeevy either way.

[Ricastle]

Dave, does it matter what order we answer you in?

[Shinobi]

Megalo has failed to respond to his prod and is being replaced.

[Errantparabola]

I think Garmr's probably town for that last post.

i don't see it

I'm going to take a look at the Boon/Jbomb wagons. Seems off to me.

well your own wagon would seem off to you...

I think I know why some people are scum reading jbomb. If the reason is what I think, I strongly disagree that the reason is always alignment indicative. And falsely making a case out of that reason is itself extremely scummy, because it's a reason that gets sheeped by lazy town.

was it just me or was this towny

[elusive]

I agree errantParabola, quick wagons freak me out especially when made upon reasoning that could be taken either way. As in I could argue that a certain role would try to keep their head down and not get to much attention. The replace itself is something that I am suspicious of (although replacing out as scum at lynch seems like a low blow) and therefore jbomb's replace will be under a higher level of scrutiny or perhaps a night action but otherwise not a fan of killing the person who isn't here and didn't do anything too extraordinarily bad.

[davesaz]

I know town who are

very

focused on not looking scummy. I know a

lot

of them. And they're town more often than scum, because scum know they need to

not say

they're focused on not looking scummy. Scum on the other hand love it when townies say they're trying not to look scummy, because in that case the scum can manipulate the

incorrect

site meta that trying to not look scummy is scummy. It's a myth, and people need to stop using it as a standalone scumtell.

Hard defending a scumbuddy? That got to L-1? Surely you must be joking.

I wanted to see if there was a reason other than "tried to not look scummy". Let's discuss that. Because trying to not look scummy sucks as a sole reason for a wagon but it combines pretty well with almost anything other than inactivity or derp. And voting someone for trying to not look scummy is a scumtell if it's the only reason someone votes, but drops off when in combination.

BTW I needed a couple of people on record before posting this, or it kinda defeats the point of the inquiry.

Pedit: If you're right, jbomb was in the perfect zone until a bunch of sheep joined the wagon. There are times you want to be a little bit scummy but not enough to be lynched.

[Ricastle]

It's not just that. I really didn't like how he never posted again after being posed 368 and 374. Both posts could easily be answered by town. Not answering my question in the former makes me think 230 was just a coastal pass to have it appear he was scumhunting, as well.

Who are the scummiest people to you on this wagon?

[Rubicon]

I didn't really have a reason for voting jbomber. I just wanted to wagon someone.

[Grib]

Nah, I think dave's kinda town.

I guess people are just gonna sit on the replacement wagon until they do things.

[Ricastle]

Yes, that's the plan, unless you're implying you have a better one.

[Shinobi]

Bewilderbeast is being prodded. If he fails to respond adequately to this prod, he will be replaced.

[Rubicon]

Yes, that's the plan, unless you're implying you have a better one.

One better plan would be to pressure someone else you scumread, until a replacement arrives.

[Ricastle]

I would if I had any other than jbomber or Grib.

Speaking of scumreads, do you actually have any proper ones yourself? Because all I've seen you do is sheep and vote lurkers.

[Rubicon]

I have townreads. You, elusive, Grib, Nero, Creative, PeaceBringer, Garmr and (less confidently) Skold.

boons is a little scummy.

[Grib]

Yes, that's the plan, unless you're implying you have a better one.

So your plan is to do...nothing, then? Almost anything is better than that.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Klingoncelt

Hi there. I don't believe I have a read on you. Also I find it incredibly unlikely that you went through every single one of my games.