White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

Equinox · Post Post #1075 (ISO) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:45 am

Vote Count 2.17Cogito Ergo Sum (4) - Ankamius, Antihero, BlueBloodedToffee, Cheery Dog
Cheery Dog (2) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez
Aneninen (1) - Regfan
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - ika
ika (1) - theelkspeaks

Not Voting (2) - Aneninen, Tammy

With 11 alive, it will take 6 to lynch.

The deadline is Saturday, April 25, 2015, at 4:30 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-04-25 16:30:00).

Moderator CommentsEquinox is V/LA until April 22.
Regfan is V/LA until April 22.
BlueBloodedToffee is V/LA until April 23.

Cogito Ergo Sum · Post Post #1076 (ISO) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:25 am

Tammy, you're probably that there is some intensity missing from my play compared to what I used to have. That's part of why I stopped playing. Looking at this game, I know I'm taking all sorts of shortcuts - I'm not questioning my own reads enough; I'm intentionally not considering Regfanscum until he's survived one Night he shouldn't; I haven't looked at BBT's scum meta because everyone calls him town despite my gut niggles; I'm not thinking enough about Ank's claim of being bad at scum (even as I type this, I don't particularly want to do it); I got carried away with the Aeronautread because everything seemed to line up so nicely.

I used to think my play deteriorated because I had such a long town streak at the end of it but I realize now that the essential problem was probably that I started to rate my own reads highly enough that I didn't feel motivated to scrutinize them. Rekindling the spark is not going to be as easy as just playing another White Flag set-up but at least I'm definitely enjoying the company.

I still think I'm right about Cheery Dog though.

Aneninen · Post Post #1077 (ISO) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:30 am

Oh finally, some time!

Catching-up, next part.

Spoiler:

Also, this could be important:

Spoiler:

Summary:

Spoiler:

Regfan · Post Post #1078 (ISO) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:18 pm

Phone posting using works net. I'll have internet turned back on either tonight or tomorrow night at home a d willd be able to catch ull then.

ika · Post Post #1079 (ISO) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:50 pm

ank, i know mollie has a lot of shit going on in her game.

if she wants to reach out to me in cross games she only needs to ask, im giving her space to focus on hers.

honestly the fact i havent and mollie takes that as a bad sign for some odd reson when i feel like she knows me better then that jsut....

fuck it:

mollie im not fuckign reaching out to you in this game due to the other one, if you are going to fucking scum read me for not reaching out when im specatgin and helping ZZZX with all the shit that went on there and knwong how much drama it caused you. then fuck it all

im giving you space so your not overbooked on shit.

yes this is probally grossly misplaced anger but im giving you time to do it at your own pace

Cheery Dog · Post Post #1080 (ISO) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:41 pm

Time to go back over stuff I skimmed with the phone yesterday.

In post 1041, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
In post 1020, Cheery Dog wrote:With more information about Regfan having brought up wallflowers and then bussing that early in the game. The thing about trying to do associate tells is overkill there.
It by itself isn't much to go on, but it's mostly fake content as that type of reads just doesn't get there accurately that early in the game.

Now you're just trying to claim the post is suspicious regardless of what happened.

I'm putting out what Gamma gave me. I don't personally care about the post, hence why I didn't quote it earlier.

In post 1042, Tammy wrote:I think I'd be fine with a cheery dog lynch. I just caught that part about Regfan unvoting to get on cheery dogs good side. I can't imagine a world where scum!regfan would need to get on cheery dogs good side, and I don't believe he even believes that.

Don't all scum want to stop town from scumreading them? My wagon also hadn't exactly been picking up that much pace.

In post 1044, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:I think it really is about time Cheery Dog got lynched. He hasn't made a credibly motivated vote all game and his last few posts are pretty much just mudslinging.

Is this seriously all you're going to chase my lynch on now?
If I'm acting mudslinging now, it's because YOU don't actually have any basis on your OWN reads still.

I don't actually know if I have a good read on you, because you're just making me mad with stupid stuff that means absolutely nothing towards finding out my alignment, but unlike my llama vote and removal, nothing has made me see you coming from a town perspective in regards to the meaningless stuff.

Ankamius · Post Post #1081 (ISO) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:41 pm

She's actually townreading you now, last I heard.

PEdit: @Ika

Cheery Dog · Post Post #1082 (ISO) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:50 pm

@Tammy, I think I might have mentioned wanting to lynch me before lylo, I'm definitely aware of me thinking it.

In post 1051, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:The second bit is in response to CD's 1049.

That has nothing to do with what you asked.

In post 1058, ika wrote:lol i got prodded

That generally means you should try for more ceontent.

ika · Post Post #1083 (ISO) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:25 pm

In post 1081, Ankamius wrote:She's actually townreading you now, last I heard.

PEdit: @Ika

can you ask her for her thoughts on CES/CD/BBT

I would love to reach out with her more but right now my mood isnt in a best so i need someon like her to talk to me

Tammy you here? if so can you come in

Cogito Ergo Sum · Post Post #1084 (ISO) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:16 pm

In post 1080, Cheery Dog wrote:I'm putting out what Gamma gave me. I don't personally care about the post, hence why I didn't quote it earlier.

Yeah but you gave a very different explanation for why it was supposed to be scummy initially? I don't think that works coming from Gamma either.

In post 1080, Cheery Dog wrote:Is this seriously all you're going to chase my lynch on now?
If I'm acting mudslinging now, it's because YOU don't actually have any basis on your OWN reads still.

At the end of both Days you've found yourself on major wagons - the Day 1 vote simply has never been explained and the Day 2 vote seems to be mostly based on a dislike of the way I asked you about your Regfanvote. That's a really problematic pattern.

I also suspect you've literally never voted for scum this game.

Cogito Ergo Sum · Post Post #1085 (ISO) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:08 pm

In post 1077, Aneninen wrote:Maybe I'm making a mistake by not reading these (because I don't have time for them) and by thinking that the Aeronaut vote in the first post is more significant than the walls themselves.

Yarr. Oversoul's second wall was really solid.

In post 1077, Aneninen wrote:Also, Cogito Ergo Sum, you asked about our team's opinion. There was a question from my predecessor whether Aeronaut might be scum. Wgeurts checked the Aeronaut-wagon and a couple of pages of the game and said something like "I don't know them personally but Regfan, Llamarable and CES look town, thus Aeronaut can be scum".
I don't think I've already reached the part of the game it's referring to, so I can't decide yet whether it's significant or not.

Did Espeonage or T-bone comment on that at all?

Regfan · Post Post #1086 (ISO) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:31 pm

Finally got home and have internet, will be getting dinner ect. sorted and then doing mass catch up on this game.

Cogito Ergo Sum · Post Post #1087 (ISO) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:46 pm

Good! We could definitely use some of your particular brand of whimsy!

Cheery Dog · Post Post #1088 (ISO) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:18 pm

In post 1084, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
I also suspect you've literally never voted for scum this game.

That's a really nice cover story you've got yourself for when I flip town

Regfan · Post Post #1089 (ISO) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:40 pm

Psyches "I don't think I'm likely to get lynched" in Post 966 reads town - It's an attitude I struggle to see him have as scum given how little and non existent his contributions are whereas I can imagine town thinking they can Town!Up whenever they want. I don't like Anens mention of Elk in Post 1007 (Will go into below) but his mention of the "weird" discusion between CD-Ika and his comment of re-looking at Llama due to the nightkill in Post 1015 and again in Post 1077 reads genuine, do want to see some more stances and actual reads from him rather than commenting on old stuff but I'm nowhere near confident the Psyche!Slot was scum.

In post 1007, Aneninen wrote:(5) I don't know whether it is important or not but I know TheElkSpeaks from another site.
There, as far as I can remember he was trying to break the game by setup spec.
(Although my memories might be wrong and it was someone else...?) By the way he was the only one who asked the same thing I did here in 68. That gave me town-vibes. His Page5 posts (or around that) too.

A) I want this Elk meta of 'breaking the game' ect. from you and B) I want you to explain to me how you're reading his play here as "breaking the game by setup spec", he's doing the opposite of that here, he voted Oversoul BECASUE Oversoul used setup spec and suggested it's usage is a scum-tell.

I like Ikas push on BBT posting elsewhere but not here in Post 972, players doing so is something I always find suspicious and normally makes me uber paranoid, I do follow BBTs explanation for it in Post 994 though but that said my town read on BBT is p much dead, I don't like his Post 1023 - he should know full well how it is to have team-mates having differing opinions of reads given that him and Titus have essentially the opposite read on Ika so him pushing that being a scum-tell makes no sense and the

"Hmm. Regfan and CES make so much sense as well."

line reads kind of fake especially given that he has a town read on me, also don't like the fact that while he's argued against the push on CD (For token reasons) he's never really taken a solid (or any) stance on him at all and given that this is essentially turning into a CES v CD thing (We're lynching CD ftr, Zachs point on him is spot on) him not doing so makes a lot of sense if he's scum with CD.

Tammy, you've repeated several times now there's "one" post of Ikas that you're strongly read as town; which is it? There are several of his that read very genuine and town but there's not one singular post I'd point to being stronger than the others here. Also have our BBT reads flipped for real? I found his initial and early game posts SuperTown, his later stuff mean I might have been wrong about him; what are you town-reading of his recently?

All of Zach/Sottys reads thoughts read very very genuine, especially like his point on CD in Post 975. I'd bet everything on him being town here.

I like CES's line of questioning and push for an answer from Anen from CES ie. Post 993 / Post 999, I can see follow the motivation behind it very well and like the constant pressure he's putting on Anen about it. It's like I'm reading a different game from everyone else; I still don't see the scum-reads on CES, I wouldn't bet the game on him being town (Mina tells me to me wary of him) but I am leaning that way especially with posts like Post 1076.

CD using the excuse of "Hasn't everyone scum read me at some stage" and "If I'm calling them out they have a crap case" in Post 1000 doesn't read genuine whatsoever, he's experienced and competent enough to know that being wrong on a read =/= being scum and the fact that essentially all of his scum-reads stem from peoples stances on him rather than their posts directed and based around other players is a p big scum-tell. I also really don't buy him believing Post 1021 whatsoever, the fact that he's claiming his vote was largely due to a team-mates reads (on a post which he's stated he doesn't agree finding scummy) means he should quite easily understand the fact that team-mates reads can differ in opinion and that stating and running through my thoughts and their thoughts isn't "fence-sitting" but rather being p transparent with where all our individual heads are at.

Unvote, Vote: CD

Updated:

Town (S->W):

Zach, Tammy, Ika, [Gap], Elk(1), CES, Anti

Null/Undecided:

BBT, Anen

Scum (S->W)

CD, [Gap], Ank(2)

(1) Admittedly p much the sole reason he's this high is Post 387 which I still do not see coming from scum, that said I haven't liked his recent posts, they all read like active-lurking ie. "Look how many V/LA's" in Post 977 and "I'll go ISO him now" with no follow through in Post 1056.

(2) I don't like the fact that Mollies yet to state a read on me while Anks claiming to have no read on me at all and needing to "sort" me in Post 1013 v Post 1014.

Regfan · Post Post #1090 (ISO) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:45 pm

Yeah okay that was longer than I planned it to be, people should still read it in it's entirety (Seriously only takes a few minutes to read, looking at you Anen, it might be a wall but it's certainly relevant) but a tldr of it is that I'm second-guessing my BBT town-read quite a lot, no longer convinced that Psycheslot was scum, still think CES is town and the wagon on him is bad and think CD's scum and don't buy that he doesn't have reads that aren't based around others reads on him.

BlueBloodedToffee · Post Post #1091 (ISO) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:59 pm

Finally, something to get my teeth into;

@Regfan - I had nothing to say in this game. I stated why I think CES is scum, he tried to explain it, I don't buy the explanation and it ends there. I mean, I could continue posting 'CES is scum, let's lynch him' if it makes you feel better, but I'm not particularly interested in doing that. What does 'you follow my explanation' mean?

It's convenient your town read on me dies when I start doubting my own town read on you. I mean, really? Considering how strong your town read on me was, it certainly didn't take much to destroy it.

Also, in regards to the team talk, I didn't openly state 'Oh hey, I think Ika is scum but Titus thinks he is town.' I didn't offer that opinion freely, I was asked about it. That's the difference. I haven't spent the game saying 'I think x, but my team thinks y.'

Your reads are often countered by your teams reads and it allows you to look like you're committing to a read and taking a solid stance, when actually, you can backtrack on it pretty easily citing 'team thinks I should do this so I'm going with majority'.

You didn't think that my town read on you had taken a hit when CD brought up his point? Further to this, I have always had a niggling in the back of my mind about your early town-read on CES that you couldn't substantiate and even questioned yourself. This read has never been evaluated though, CES has just 'always been town.' You don't see how this could be interpreted as you both being scum?

I also haven't openly stated (till now) that I am against the push on CD. You're right though, I don't particularly have an opinion on CD, I'm finding him difficult to read. However, given CES is pushing the CD wagon, I liked CD's argument against you and now you're also voting for CD, I'm not feeling a CD lynch at all.

Regfan · Post Post #1092 (ISO) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:14 am

BBT, I didn't have an issue you with you specifically stopping posting here while apparently posting elsewhere, I stated I understand your explanation ie. I understood there wasn't much more that would have been worthwhile you posting without it being fluff posts, that was something I had no issue with from you whatsoever. The issues I have is a) I can very much see you and CD being partners given your severe lack of a read on him and b) I don't buy that you'd think 'team-reads-differing from your own' is a scum-tell given you should understand EXACTLY my position since you're supposedly in the same one with Titus. It's fairly obvious from my play that I pick my reads of my team reads, I'll listen to them, I'll even voice their opinions in the thread but if I believe something differently I'm going to go with it since no offence to them but I'd consider myself a stronger town player than them plus I'm paying more attention to this than they are. I've not once said "okay my team says x, but I believe y but I'll trust them and go with x", I've stuck with my own reads and thoughts, this is something you were doing EXACTLY with Ika v Titus so you going 'that's a good point' when CD mentions it doesn't read genuine whatsoever and isn't a thought process I can follow from you.

As for your explanation on you thinking CES-Me make sense together at least there I can follow your thought process now despite it being wrong.

BlueBloodedToffee · Post Post #1093 (ISO) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:27 am

I misinterpreted then because it seemed like you liked ika's push on me (which I assumed meant you agreed with it) and then you agreed with my explanation. I can see your thought process now though because at first I couldn't see how you could agree with both sides.

I can agree with a). Not much for me to say that I haven't just said.

b) again is completely different. People asked for my teams opinions, I never just openly presented them. The way in which you do it opens up opportunities for yourself to switch reads/jumps wagons. Mine doesn't. I'm not sure how you can't see the difference here.

I also flat out state I'm not listening to Titus. Where as you leave that element of doubt where your team MIGHT effect your read.

Regfan · Post Post #1094 (ISO) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:45 am

In post 1093, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:b) again is completely different. People asked for my teams opinions, I never just openly presented them.
The way in which you do it opens up opportunities for yourself to switch reads/jumps wagons. Mine doesn't. I'm not sure how you can't see the difference here.
I also flat out state I'm not listening to Titus. Where as you leave that element of doubt where your team MIGHT effect your read.

Still think it's effectively the same thing; my vote is still

my

vote, just as yours is yours. I'm still voting

my

scum-read and unvoting when

I'm

unsure, I've never done differently this game and likely never will, I'm going to trust myself far more than them, especially since they're mostly just doing ISO's or reading specific posts I want them to look at which is less information than I have here. So you agreeing with CD saying that I'm "using team mates reads to be fencesitty" doesn't make sense. And while it's nice if my team agreed with me and had the exact same reads as me it's not something I require from them, that said I'm not going to hide or hold back my team mates reads and thoughts because posting them allows others insight into what their reads, thought process and stances are which leads towards more relevant and useful conversations and essentially turns 1 town slot into 4 town slots.

BlueBloodedToffee · Post Post #1095 (ISO) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:49 am

I fail to see the point (if you're town) in providing your teams opinions if you're not going to listen to them.

If someone wants your teams opinions, let them ask.

Regfan · Post Post #1096 (ISO) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:57 am

In post 1095, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I fail to see the point (if you're town) in providing your teams opinions if you're not going to listen to them.

Put it this way; if you were given the option of having 3 random spectators be able to comment on the game (regardless of whether their opinions match with your own or not) why would you deny it? Allowing it means that there's more game-relevant conversation which pushes the game forward rather than lets it stagnate and makes it easier to get reads, especially when we get a scum flip interaction wise (Who commenting on certain reads, what their comments were, who avoided it ect.) Heck use my replace into the newbie where Count ect. was scum, while my reads (Especially the Bookitty one) wasn't agreed on with everyone and was indeed wrong it led towards more information and ultimately a better decision made at the end.

Tammy · Post Post #1097 (ISO) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:11 am

Regfan - heading into work so I'm going to respond in bits as I have a 14 hour day, am still sick, and will probably pass out as soon as I get home.

But real quick. If you don't mind, I'd prefer not to point out the one post that I think makes ika really town. I'd like to keep that little tell to myself. I do think his recent anger post to/about mollie reads really town too. There are other posts I think are town from ika in addition to that one though.

Regfan · Post Post #1098 (ISO) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:18 am

Trying to keep "tells" to yourself is kind of lame but fine. I'd rather you focus on explaining what about BBT's recent posts read town to you because that's not how I've read his interaction with CD / his recent posts with the exception of his response to me so far which I can at least see partly where he's coming from in.

Cheery Dog · Post Post #1099 (ISO) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:32 am

All this "genuine/ingenuine" reads on me are also fairly meaningless. What exactly is ths motivation of being so called ingenuine?