NY 183 - Apocalypse Mafia


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Post Post #1250 (ISO) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:43 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 1245, Klingoncelt wrote:
In post 1222, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1208, Klingoncelt wrote:
In post 1207, Nero Cain wrote:So I'm 100% this far



Unless you're Scum this time, right?

What does this even mean?



You said you correctly read House's alignment in every game. This suggests that you're reading him correctly in this game as well.

If you are Scum, though, that would make an exception to your psychic streak, you'd just be scumreading him for the sake of a mislynch.

So I'm FoSing you. That's what it means.

:igmeou:

So...I'm scumreading House and I believe in my scumread and you say "well u could be scum pushing a mislynch.!" Like I'm squinting real hard and this still doesn't make any sense.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #1251 (ISO) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:10 pm

Post by Klingoncelt »

In post 1250, Nero Cain wrote:

So...I'm scumreading House and I believe in my scumread and you say "well u could be scum pushing a mislynch.!" Like I'm squinting real hard and this still doesn't make any sense.


Would it help if I said you look scummier to me than he does?
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Post Post #1252 (ISO) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:52 pm

Post by House »

In post 1248, Xayzeck wrote:Nero and House could be TvT

I'm still good with a Boon lynch

Ricastle treating himself as the strongest townread and most likely NK target struck me as weird.

I kinda like Kling so far today


Can you tell me why Boon is scum?
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Post Post #1253 (ISO) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:06 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 1251, Klingoncelt wrote:Would it help if I said you look scummier to me than he does?

Why am I scummy and why not just say that instead of some weird chainsaw type post?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #1254 (ISO) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:24 pm

Post by Shinobi »

Vote Count


House
(3):
PointYBagelS, Nero Cain, PeaceBringer

Kitz
(2):
Errantparabola, Ricastle

Boonskiies
(1):
Grib

Klingoncelt
(1):
Boonskiies

Vampirate
(1):
elusive


Not Voting
(9):
House, Bellaphant, davesaz, Klingoncelt, Vampirate, Kitz, Creative, Xayzeck, Rubicon


With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline
: (expired on 2015-05-06 11:00:00)
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Post Post #1255 (ISO) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:30 pm

Post by Klingoncelt »

In post 1253, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1251, Klingoncelt wrote:Would it help if I said you look scummier to me than he does?

Why am I scummy and why not just say that instead of some weird chainsaw type post?


I'm having trouble getting reads this game. It happens sometimes. You look
scummier
than House, but that isn't saying that I think you're Scum. More like leaning Scum.
Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."
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Post Post #1256 (ISO) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:49 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

WHY?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #1257 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:51 am

Post by Errantparabola »

Is it just me or did xay just make a post with absolutely nothing in it?
When i get on a computer I'm going to try and justify that red herring argument I made against nero
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Post Post #1258 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:46 am

Post by Creative »

In post 1233, davesaz wrote:
In post 1223, Creative wrote:
Davesaz

Spoiler:
In post 1219, davesaz wrote:I had the same thought as . Scum having that thought would want to eliminate the player in question.

Stop softing my role dude.

The House post I quoted was about Vampirate, not you. Why are you injecting yourself into it?


It was about what ricastle said, if you don´t get it just forget about it.

In post 1234, davesaz wrote:Work has been tight. @Creative you missed my reads post?


I did not, so now that we know you were wrong on Skold, did your reads changed?
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Post Post #1259 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:37 am

Post by PointYBagelS »

I still think House is scummy, but there's an obvious scum among us and it isn't House.

This game seems like it is stalling a little bit. I realize it is still early in the day, but my gut wants to say that scum is demotivated by the night kill and has become less involved in the game because of it. This leaves 2 people as standing out as scummy for being a bit less active than they were on day 1. Xayzeck and Vampirate. Arguably Rubicon can be considered a part of this group as well, but his few posts today seem pretty town-ish so I doubt he's scum. This is obviously not a legitimate way to scumread, but it is a good place to start, I think.

I've now reread both of their ISOs, and it is pretty clear that Vampirate is scum.

Vampirate seems to have legitimately scumread 2 people, Skold and Xayzeck (plus Ricastle, to an extent). Despite calling Xayzeck out for being anti-town, he never changes his vote. While I understand the worry that Xayzeck might be an easy mislynch due to his lurkiness, I don't understand why a town-Vampirate wouldn't think the same of Skold, who also lurked through most of his wagon. This double standard to me implies that he's not legitimately scumreading anyone, and is just putting up appearances.

Additionally, Vampirate has done very little, if any, actual scumhunting. He's asked questions but nothing really substantial. Mostly he's just asked people to clarify what they were saying.

So we have someone who reaches questionable conclusions, has not scumhunted, replaced in for someone who was already scummy, is borderline lurking. If quacks like a duck...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vampirate
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Post Post #1260 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:02 am

Post by Ricastle »

I really only stopped hard scumreading Vamp's slot because I trusted House. It has since come to my attention that he has not actually done anything to prove the contrary. Suffice to say I'd be willing to sheep him over Kitz, but first.

Vamp, how are you reading Klingon?
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Post Post #1261 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:34 am

Post by Nero Cain »

Why do you trust House?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #1262 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:43 am

Post by Ricastle »

I
did
trust him. I liked his approach and confidence, but that mostly went to pot after the Skold flip.
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Post Post #1263 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:50 am

Post by Nero Cain »

Do you trust me?

Do you still town read Hose?

If so, what do you think of House saying that the Skold flip is making him rethink his reads?

What do you think of Celt basically selectively scumreading me for being confident in my House read?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #1264 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:52 am

Post by Rubicon »

bellaphant, can you explain the reasoning for your Skold vote please?

Ricastle, seems anti-town. Why did you ask that?
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Post Post #1265 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:09 am

Post by Vampirate »

In post 1259, PointYBagelS wrote:
I've now reread both of their ISOs, and it is pretty clear that Vampirate is scum.


Well that's just your opinion man.

In post 1259, PointYBagelS wrote:
Vampirate seems to have legitimately scumread 2 people, Skold and Xayzeck (plus Ricastle, to an extent). Despite calling Xayzeck out for being anti-town, he never changes his vote. While I understand the worry that Xayzeck might be an easy mislynch due to his lurkiness, I don't understand why a town-Vampirate wouldn't think the same of Skold, who also lurked through most of his wagon. This double standard to me implies that he's not legitimately scumreading anyone, and is just putting up appearances.


You're twisting the story here. I voted Skold on the basis of survival, period. I didn't know one way or the other if he was scum but it was better than voting myself here, I was null on Skold, I didn't Scum read him. As for Xayzeck, I said he was the easy lynch straight away due to his lurky anti town behavior, I NEVER SAID I WAS SCUM READING HIM, AND THEREFORE DID NOT VOTE HIM. If I scum read him I would have switched my vote, 0/2 here. Are you referring to my reply to Elusive's post? Obviously, pretty much anyone would say that lynching someone they don't know the alignment of would be better than lynching themselves. How is this scum reading Xay? The only part you have right was I was scum reading Ricastle at the time due. I've since been pretty null on him though.


In post 1259, PointYBagelS wrote:
Additionally, Vampirate has done very little, if any, actual scumhunting. He's asked questions but nothing really substantial. Mostly he's just asked people to clarify what they were saying.


Fair enough but why are you signaling myself out when you already said you find House scummy, and are blaming me for the things Xayzeck has done.

In post 1259, PointYBagelS wrote:
So we have someone who reaches questionable conclusions, has not scumhunted, replaced in for someone who was already scummy, is borderline lurking. If quacks like a duck...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vampirate


It's a moose : P

Judging by this, you're scum reading House but you want to vote myself over him, you're also twisting the story to suit your own purposes and while reading Xay's and my ISO are scum reading me for the same things Xay was doing? This feels like you're setting me up to be honest, smells of manipulation. I haven't voted for you....yet.

Since you think i'm the most obvious scum over Xay, what is your take on him?

In post 1260, Ricastle wrote:I really only stopped hard scumreading Vamp's slot because I trusted House. It has since come to my attention that he has not actually done anything to prove the contrary. Suffice to say I'd be willing to sheep him over Kitz, but first.

Vamp, how are you reading Klingon?


I'll admit, I did find the post below to be a tab opportunistic. I'm not sure how much weight i'd put on that though.

In post 755, Klingoncelt wrote:
In post 745, Vampirate wrote:
In post 308, Ricastle wrote:Ugh. I'm really unconfident in nearly every read I've got so far. I've managed to scrounge together a full set of reads, but they're terrible and I probably won't post them unless someone insists on it.

VOTE: Grib

This is my best scumread for the foreseeable future.
If Grib flips non-mafia, Rubicon & elusive are probably town. If he flips mafia then the opposite.


Kitz, are you leaning towards a more harmless or more negative role with your neutral read? (I assume by neutral you mean third party rather than null)

Elusive: Thing is, how can you be sure everyone in a townbloc
is
town on Day 1? Obviously, if it was likely that was the case, I'd have no problems. I just can't see it in Grib though. Who's your top scumread?

Chainsawing is defending a player by attacking their attacker.


The bolded caught my eye here as it feels Ricastle is/was trying to manipulate future events. If Grib turned out to be non-mafia, Ricastle could later on say "well then the other 2 are probably town" hiding a mafia in them.

If Grib turned out to be mafia, then there's at least 1 easy mislynches after' and of course Ricastle gets the credit.

I honestly highly doubt the mafia would stack up 3 of themselves together like that.

So VOTE: Ricastle

Anyways this is what I have so far as little as it is.


As for JBomber732, the only real defense I have against everyone voting me now is that the JBomb is an easy lynch target. He stands out way too much in his questionable logic. I'd think he'd be more careful on his words if he's scum. (of course i'm the only one who knows for the very truth so whatever) I'm basically saying i'm the easy mislynch.


I gotta say though, I find my current predicament totally hilarious. If you want go read my past history (there's not much) go ahead.



This is very likely the game's most sensible post so far.


I can see Scum "Townblocking" in a smaller game, but here it would be damn risky. So I see Elusive, Grib, and Rubicon as obvtown.

FoS: Ricastle
for trying to set up Grib.



Anyways, i'm heading home from work i'll look more into her ISO when I get home.
You are not more paranoid than me!!!!
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Post Post #1266 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:26 am

Post by Ricastle »

In post 1263, Nero Cain wrote:Do you trust me?

Do you still town read Hose?

If so, what do you think of House saying that the Skold flip is making him rethink his reads?

What do you think of Celt basically selectively scumreading me for being confident in my House read?
Honestly, not really. My heart still says you're town though. On the other hand, I'm struggling to see your clashes with House as tvt but I can't make out which of you is the scum within it, so you're both floating around the null area right now.

Can you quote where Klingon effectively said that? And I thought you were waiting for her response as to why she finds you scummy because she hasn't answered yet? Although that's bad in itself.

In post 1264, Rubicon wrote:Ricastle, seems anti-town. Why did you ask that?
Grib said he made up the Dave townslip to get reactions from Dave. I'm asking what Bella thought she saw that was it.
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Post Post #1267 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:12 am

Post by Grib »

Ricastle, the reaction part was about Boon.

The dave townslip is very real.
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Post Post #1268 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:14 am

Post by Bellaphant »

Ricastle wrote:Bella, what did you think Grib was referencing?


It was early in RVS, and I assumed it was a reference to a previous game. Obviously could've been rvs weirdness as well!

Xayzeck wrote:Nero and House could be TvT

I'm still good with a Boon lynch

Ricastle treating himself as the strongest townread and most likely NK target struck me as weird.

I kinda like Kling so far today


Why? KC is catching a bit of heat today, and this all seems to come out no-where?

Rubicon wrote:bellaphant, can you explain the reasoning for your Skold vote please?

Ricastle, seems anti-town. Why did you ask that?


Skold didn't have many clear reads (jbomber was town and rubicon was dumb!town), had made a lot of...noise without necessarily progressing the game, and was still fluff posting to people who were scum-reading him before and after my vote...Also, House's read-list seemed, although not 100% where I was, then at least similar. I wasn't happy to lynch xay or vamp, which I mentioned.
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Post Post #1269 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:28 am

Post by House »

In post 1262, Ricastle wrote:I
did
trust him. I liked his approach and confidence, but that mostly went to pot after the Skold flip.


If you believed my read was good pre-flip, why would that change post-flip? My reasoning should be judged on its own merits. Based on the mindset of your post, town never mislynches.
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Post Post #1270 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:43 am

Post by Ricastle »

In post 1267, Grib wrote:Ricastle, the reaction part was about Boon.

The dave townslip is very real.
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Post Post #1271 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:53 am

Post by Ricastle »

Ignore that.

In post 1267, Grib wrote:Ricastle, the reaction part was about Boon.

The dave townslip is very real.
Well you sure made that clear...

In post 1269, House wrote:If you believed my read was good pre-flip, why would that change post-flip? My reasoning should be judged on its own merits. Based on the mindset of your post, town never mislynches.
I didn't specifically like you because of your reasoning on Skold; in fact, I can't even remember what your reasoning was. I liked you because of how confident you were about the conclusions you made from that reasoning.
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Post Post #1272 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:34 pm

Post by House »

In post 1271, Ricastle wrote:
In post 1269, House wrote:If you believed my read was good pre-flip, why would that change post-flip? My reasoning should be judged on its own merits. Based on the mindset of your post, town never mislynches.
I didn't specifically like you because of your reasoning on Skold; in fact, I can't even remember what your reasoning was. I liked you because of how confident you were about the conclusions you made from that reasoning.


It's not the first time I was certain of a player's alignment and proven wrong, and in my experience it's not an uncommon occurrence for ambitious town to be mistaken. I don't see how being wrong on a read is so paranoia-inducing.
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Post Post #1273 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:34 pm

Post by PeaceBringer »

In post 1269, House wrote:
In post 1262, Ricastle wrote:I
did
trust him. I liked his approach and confidence, but that mostly went to pot after the Skold flip.


If you believed my read was good pre-flip, why would that change post-flip? My reasoning should be judged on its own merits. Based on the mindset of your post, town never mislynches.

your reasoning was crap, you really did not have any reasoning... although I will go and double check my thought there...
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Post Post #1274 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:36 pm

Post by PeaceBringer »

In post 794, House wrote:
In post 440, Skold wrote:Hmmm. Votes are too divided. It's too easy for scum to hide under these conditions.
Unvote:

VOTE: Boon
Less lurk more content m9.


Too divided?

In post 436, Shinobi wrote:Vote Count

Grib (4): Garmr, Errantparabola, Creative, Ricastle
Skold (4): elusive, Rubicon, PointYbagelS, Grib
Boonskiies (3): Nero Cain, davesaz, PeaceBringer
Garmr (1): jbomber732
elusive (1): bewilderbeast
Klingoncelt (1): Boonskiies
PointYbagelS (1): Klingoncelt
Nero Cain (1): jbomber732
jbomber732 (1): Skold



So... instead of giving either of the larger wagons a majority, you made it a three-way tie instead of the two-way tie that it already was?

How does this resolve with your statement about divided votes making it too easy for scum to hide, again?

1st question is non-sense and seems to be looking for a reason to pick on him. Votes were spread out. In general town may prefer to see 2-3 run ups and get decent claims. Nothing at all sketchy, but guess this was point #1.

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