Newbie 1596: Exotic Birds (Game Over)

[Plotinus]

@deep-city reubus was you. and saad was you before reubus. so don't vote either of those names in your readthrough and you'll be fine. You can safely vote anyone but yourself, no one else is in danger right now.

Actually, I'm going to bed because I have a headache and I don't want to stare at the computer anymore, so I'm going to unvote to prevent any accidental self hammering because she only has two posts to her name and if she accidentally votes saad that could be bad.

I'm still scumreading the slot but I don't want the day to end early. I'm expecting to revote deep-city in the morning unless she's at L-1 or some miracle of towniness occurs.

UNVOTE: deepcity

but still try not to vote yourself.

[Argos]

I'm more than willing to give deep-city-lights the time to post some reads, they're certain to be useful whether he's town or scum. All this talk about saad/Swagrid/lights has certainly been confusing. Swagrid's misreading of the dates isn't ultimately that scummy for me - it's hard to believe that he knew the actual dates and thought he could trick the people who had actually gone through it - as much as his quickly succumbing to pressure and his line that I haven't provided any reads when I would think that 184 would qualify. I don't have many posts so far, as was pointed out so I'm not sure how he could have missed that.

Trying to gain much from the first day seems almost pointless to me right now considering just how quickly it went, so I want to post a few things I've gleaned from reading over a bit of the second day.

Plotinus and Wanderer have been dominating the second day so far, maybe because they seem to have some history together in previous games and find it easier to talk to.
I find Plotinus' posts usually town - as I said, they seem to have no filter, trying to be transparent as to their motivations and reasoning as it happens. Some of this may be perceived as flooding their posts with details that don't matter to create an illusion of substantive activity, but I'm inclined to believe that meandering posts like 214 suggest a wandering mind rather than a deceitful one. Probably my strongest town read at this point, though there are some niggling issues with voting patterns.

Skold's starting to talk more but I'd really like more in depth reads from him. He's mentioned that he was going to provide more in depth content yesterday but never really came through, preferring to leap upon saad's replacement(s) before heading out. I'd like to see more pressure applied here.

Wyvernite's a hard read for me for some reason, he seems to kind of be doing his own thing rather than fully joining the conversation, poking here and there to see what sticks. Honestly have no idea whether this should read a town or scum but I'd like some of the more experienced players to lend their advice here.

[singersigner]

Alright, well I see he's replaced out before I could really comment on anything, but I'll address some things anyway because I believe this slot cemented my scumread of saad based on the following:

@singersigner
Can you explain your actions during D1 and how it has helped your win condition? Do you agree with my statement about scum being on the D1 wagon? If so, who on that wagon is most likely scum?

This looks like a leading/trick question. I made five posts the entire day, which lasted less than 24 hours (don't know where seven hours cam from either >_>), and was at work for half of it, so implying that I had anything to account for sounds like no matter what I said, it was going to be wrong. To actually answer the question, though...I still only had five posts in 13 hours! I did exactly what I would've done even if the day lasted longer: offer my initial IC post, give a read when I had one, play devil's advocate to ascertain which alignment motivated which actions. As far as my win condition goes, this is the leading part of the question because it sets me up for WIFOM***, which isn't worth delving into because you can only assume I would answer as town from either alignment.

Ok, I see he also asked this of someone else, so it wasn't just the IC; however, a better question would be how has it helped the

town's

win condition? That would make me feel like he's genuinely trying to find who's on his team (which hypothetically would town), as opposed to setting people up by implying it could be from either wincon.

Well obviously that was one of the largest fuckups I will probably ever have on MS but

is it really alignment indicative

?

It almost wants to make me curl up into a ball and cry and request a replacement but hey, I gotta learn don't I?

Already shouts defensiveness over his mistake. He commented on Plotinus' hammer in the same way so it's not as smoking gun as I originally thought, but I've always found excusing your predecessor's mistakes (305) as scummy because you're trying to lessen the impact will have on your slot.

/undo 306 onwards god that's embarrassing. I thought I could handle another game but I could hardly enter right.
I'll just go to bed now....

Don't bus me while I'm asleep,

that would be just silly

I don't actually know if this is a joke or not. Argos jumped to that conclusion, but it could also be considered a slip if he meant to say "lynch." To give him the benefit of the doubt and call it a joke, it still seems out of place because it gives a sense of nervousness or something that even if joked about, points to something they're worried about.

Then the replace out makes it look like he just got caught and doesn't feel like he can recover. I'm 100% ok with this, but agree that we can give the replacement time to catch-up and give input to help us in the long run.

[Wanderer-nl]

You know, I did like 312.

I'm afraid we have come to the point where the saad/Swagrid/lights-slot is so messed up that we are best off lynching it. I don't want this to happen and I hope Lights is able to work with it. Looking at her joindate, this is her first game on the site, I hope it's not too rough.

[deep-city-lights]

@deep-city reubus was you. and saad was you before reubus. so don't vote either of those names in your readthrough and you'll be fine. You can safely vote anyone but yourself, no one else is in danger right now.

Well, that's embarrassing. I guess that's what I get for skimming as quickly as I did.

I'm sorry to enter the game with yet another excuse, but it's better to admit that it is one, I suppose: something came up in my work schedule and today has been and will continue to be too busy for me to fully read up in-depth. But I will be here and active tomorrow for sure.

From what I can see just skimming relevant links, Day 1's lynch was an overly speedy one on the Bulletproof... I'll try to analyze how "accidental" that was when I return. And with over a week left to go, I request that you still not put me at L-1 until I'm satisfied with my own catch-up, since to be blunt I'm not that confident in the town's abilities so far (I'm referring both to that lynch and the impending one on me, which if it goes through soon like I think it will, will bring us to 3v2 in the span of about two weeks).

[singersigner]

unvote

I don't really want to confirmation bias BBT's suspicion, since he's not infallible. I just don't want to be a sucker for "lolmistakes" or AtE... I need to marinate on this again. Let DCL catch up and hopefully hear more from the less vocal group, and try to reset what's happening.

[Wyvernite]

As much as I love letting everyone marinate as singer says, and analyize everything, since you're just now coming into a game 14 pages of posts to slog through I'll let it slide this time. but if I catch such defensiveness as "pls don't put me L-1 so I can read everyone" again, I will vote for you. and then throwing out an OMGUS to town in general. Nothing about 329 bodes well with me. I guess time will tell though.

@wanderer what exactly changed between posts 328, and 281, that made you change your mind on DCL/saad's slot? I don't like the inconsistency here
VOTE: Wanderer

[Wanderer-nl]

@Wyvernite: How am I inconsistent?

[Cephrir]

Vote Count 2.4

deep-city-lights 1 (Skold)
Wanderer-nl 1 (Wyvernite)
Argos 1 (deep-city-lights)

Not Voting 4 (Argos, Wanderer-nl, Plotinus, singersigner)

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline is in (expired on 2015-05-02 10:00:00)

[Wanderer-nl]

I've read through saad's iso and I don't really see saad OMGUS'ing much. He throws out suspicions/accusations, but didn't explain them. That made him look scummy, and his over-all play was anti-town.
Then I read through Reubus' iso. Checked why he wanted to vote Argos. He didn't pay enough attention to the post-times and messed up. I have a townlean on Argos so my initial reaction was that Reubus' reason was bogus. But then this happened:
Argos was hesitant towards a saad-replacement 302 because they wouldn't be able to answer the questions that saad left unanswered. Then in 326 Argos is more than willing to hear from the new replacement because they might be able to shed some light on the situation.
What changed?

I don't think singer has contributed a lot so far. Yes, she's seemed helpful, but that was mostly her being IC. She hasn't said anything about Argos and Wyvernite yet, says they haven't done enough yet to give singer a confident read. Everybody else still alive has been able to provide some sort of reads on the 2 of those, so I don't really know how an experienced singer would not have anything at all to say about them.

[Plotinus]

If deep-lights does flip scum, which I'm pretty sure she will, then I wonder if we should take the bus comment to mean her scumbuddy isn't in [skold, me, singer]. That leaves [wanderer, wyvernite, argos]. I'm townreading wanderer. I'm starting to reconsider wyvernite.

I think it's okay to give the new player time to read the thread and at least practice making reads and asking questions of players and asking the IC about theory stuff before we lynch her. Even if she was lynched before reading the thread I think I would count towards the limit of 2 games that you can play as a newbie before you can only play as SE or by replacing in, so I'm fine with letting things sit for a while. Consider my vote to be on her anyway.

If she does ask to replace out or gets prodded enough that she's almost ready to be replaced then I think we should just lynch the slot though instead of making cephrir find another replacement.

I thought House meant a scum IC would flake on IC advice too, but it's good to consider everybody, and you're right that she hasn't given reads for those two yet. She's mentioned them a few times and talked to one of them a couple times but not in a giving-reads-about-them sort of way.

I also want to hear more from the quieter people.

[Plotinus]

I think *it would count

ebwop

[Argos]

I've read through saad's iso and I don't really see saad OMGUS'ing much. He throws out suspicions/accusations, but didn't explain them. That made him look scummy, and his over-all play was anti-town.
Then I read through Reubus' iso. Checked why he wanted to vote Argos. He didn't pay enough attention to the post-times and messed up. I have a townlean on Argos so my initial reaction was that Reubus' reason was bogus. But then this happened:
Argos was hesitant towards a saad-replacement 302 because they wouldn't be able to answer the questions that saad left unanswered. Then in 326 Argos is more than willing to hear from the new replacement because they might be able to shed some light on the situation.
What changed?

I don't think singer has contributed a lot so far. Yes, she's seemed helpful, but that was mostly her being IC. She hasn't said anything about Argos and Wyvernite yet, says they haven't done enough yet to give singer a confident read. Everybody else still alive has been able to provide some sort of reads on the 2 of those, so I don't really know how an experienced singer would not have anything at all to say about them.

I did say that saad's replacement could help shed light as well, I just mentioned it after letting out some frustrations. I think it's good policy to allow replacements to say their peace, but their predecessor's posts shouldn't be forgotten and the replacement obviously can't account for someone else's actions which is annoying.

Singer's a null read for me right now. I'd love someone with more time on their hands to try and gauge their meta to see if this is generally the amount of detail they post.

[singersigner]

Is saad a native English speaker? That could explain at least some of the oddness of his posts.

Singersigner's recent burst of activity puts them on the right side of 'town' for me right now

, either that or very good scum. I think I read in one of the threads I was lurking in before I joined that scum are more likely to switch out, so if Skold ends up not coming back that could be a bit troublesome, though I don't know whether his relative experience shifts those numbers at all. Don't want to rush to judgement based on statistics, but I'm eager to hear what he or his replacement have to say.

Singer's a null read

for me right now. I'd love someone with more time on their hands to try and gauge their meta to see if this is generally the amount of detail they post.

What happened between these two posts? You didn't comment on anything I've said or done since then, yet your read changed?

Also, I'm not really a fan of soliciting others to do the work for you, but I'll link you to my most recent/only scum game and my most recent town games (I only left one out because I replaced in, only made two posts and died N1, so...).

I'm not as forthcoming with my reads unless I'm fairly confident in them, since I like to have all the facts, first. To say that I should have reads on certain people because I'm the IC is an appeal to authority fallacy that you should reconsider.

[singersigner]

Right now, a lot of how I feel about certain slots hinges on DCL providing substance (and soon), and then a consequential flip. Town was set way back by having virtually nothing to analyze from the wagon on town D1, so the fact that DCL wants to comment particularly on that and the hammer has me intrigued. A fresh set of eyes will help, even if they're from scum.

[Argos]

Is saad a native English speaker? That could explain at least some of the oddness of his posts.

Singersigner's recent burst of activity puts them on the right side of 'town' for me right now

, either that or very good scum. I think I read in one of the threads I was lurking in before I joined that scum are more likely to switch out, so if Skold ends up not coming back that could be a bit troublesome, though I don't know whether his relative experience shifts those numbers at all. Don't want to rush to judgement based on statistics, but I'm eager to hear what he or his replacement have to say.

Singer's a null read

for me right now. I'd love someone with more time on their hands to try and gauge their meta to see if this is generally the amount of detail they post.

What happened between these two posts? You didn't comment on anything I've said or done since then, yet your read changed?

Also, I'm not really a fan of soliciting others to do the work for you, but I'll link you to my most recent/only scum game and my most recent town games (I only left one out because I replaced in, only made two posts and died N1, so...).

I'm not as forthcoming with my reads unless I'm fairly confident in them, since I like to have all the facts, first. To say that I should have reads on certain people because I'm the IC is an appeal to authority fallacy that you should reconsider.

I found 248 town in the middle of a flurry of other posts you had made when entering the fray in the second day but it seems that that rate of activity has dropped off some since then and much of the useful information being, as Wanderer said, perhaps more the result of IC status than helping town; all of which brings me back to a solid 'I don't know.' I'll see if I can read through those threads later today to get a better picture on where I stand, though.

[deep-city-lights]

I find it half amusing and half worrisome that people are already speculating as to who's scum with me despite me not having been lynched yet, not to mention me being town anyway. Save the useless speculation for an actual scum lynch.

But oddly enough, I think that most of those doing it - and I'm mainly referring to Plotinus here - are actually town. The way he's approaching my lynch looks more in line with town who believes in what he's pushing for, rather than scum taking advantage of what they know to be a mislynch. I'll come back to this after a full game read, but I'm feeling fairly good about that, just going off of this and the last page.

I do think town, and not just scum, is chomping at the bit for my lynch, so I'll just claim now:

I am a Vanilla Townie.

There, no power role mislynch to be afraid of here. I hope you'll all still actually give me both the time to figure out what's going on here and the pre-flip consideration that maybe you could be wrong about me after all.

I'll begin reading in full now. See you all soon.

[deep-city-lights]

I intended for this to be an in-depth catchup with multiple quotes of things I found interesting, but I'm trying to do 3 things at once here so I'm just going to read the whole thing, and only then when done go back to the things I want to talk about. Please bear with me here.

[Skold]

My gods. This game has far too much over reaction for people who aren't even close to lynch. Mate you're slot already claimed but even so, you're at L-3. I feel still feel this slot is scum. This is partially because of Swagrid but I feel that everyone who has been giving this slot has gone way off the mark on most things. Claiming at L-3 was weird and over-defensive. I'd like to see your thoughts on Argos and SingerSinger though.

[Plotinus]

at least she didn't claim cop or jester or fluffy kitten or something.

[Plotinus]

not disagreeing, though.

[Wanderer-nl]

Hey Skold where are your reads?

[Skold]

I'll get back to you on that in the morning. DCL is probably scum, I'm thinking SingerSinger is town.
@Wyvernite can you explain the Wanderer scum read for me? I've never personally liked minor inconsistencies as a scumread.

[deep-city-lights]

My gods. This game has far too much over reaction for people who aren't even close to lynch. Mate you're slot already claimed but even so, you're at L-3. I feel still feel this slot is scum. This is partially because of Swagrid but I feel that everyone who has been giving this slot has gone way off the mark on most things. Claiming at L-3 was weird and over-defensive. I'd like to see your thoughts on Argos and SingerSinger though.

Pretty damn amused again. Literally every person in this game (from what I can tell, at least - I think I caught a glimpse of someone defending and/or white-knighting me up there somewhere) has expressed a desire to lynch me.

Wave around your "L-3" all you want; that's only the case because I asked for unvotes while I catch up. Just because the noose isn't around my neck yet doesn't mean that it's not still there. It's imminent, and should be fairly obvious to everyone here by now.

Go on and spit "over-defensive" all you want; I'm a bit perplexed as to how you can consider a Vanilla Townie claim to be a defensive reaction of any sort, seeing as if I were scum, I've forgone the opportunity to buy further time with a Jailkeeper or Tracker claim. Not to mention I'd have just given up a chance to claim one of those roles and reveal who the real remaining power role is so that my partner would be able to kill them (as disappointed as I am in the Day 1 lynch, I'd at least hope that this town would be hesitant at the possibility of lynching two power roles in a row unless the real one counter-claimed).

Once again, I have no doubt that I'm the lynch today. But I want to at least be able to hash out some reads first. No, not so that town has some of those much-beloved "interactions" from me when I flip, or to try and prove I'm town in order to stop my lynch - I'm not that optimistic (though I will say the idea of me willingly providing you all with further interactions from my slot if I were scum, just so you could lynch me without regret and use them to find my partner, is also laughable).

No, I am and have been asking for people to unvote someone at L-1, and then asking for people to unvote me upon learning

I

was the player at L-1, so that I could have the opportunity to catch up without being cut off while in the middle of trying to figure the game and my reads out. I absolutely

hate

when bullshit like that happens.

And earlier this was just because of that, just because I wanted to catch up and put a stop to the L-1 lynch wagon if I had a townread on its victim. But now, the primary draw to me is that at least once I'm dead and gone, I'll have the chance to point and laugh and yell "I told you so!" from beyond the grave should I be right.

Now then.

I was interrupted earlier, so I'm still reading. This is a preemptive reminder, should anyone try to go the "this is taking too long, just lynch her" route, that we have a full week's length of this day left. You can afford to have a little patience here.

[deep-city-lights]

Also, I apologize to the moderator if my above post pushes on the "play nice" rule too much - I'm just a bit annoyed by the nonstop self-assured scumread remarks against me while I'm trying to work here.