Twin Trap (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Quilford]

No it isnt

[Metal Sonic]

Your play this entire game is scummy as fuck

Now you have to fall back on your last line of defense, meta


Meta defense against a non meta attack

Is barely evidence

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Quilford]

That's not how reads work.

I was reading BBmolla as scum based on a number of factors, all of which I thought were pretty convincing in their own right.

But my meta with him suggested to me that often my BB reads were wildly incorrect, so my net read on him swung way back closer to null.

Or...

I'd never played with Patrick before, so I was uncertain what to make of his unemotional, straightforward play.

After I meta'd him, I saw that he didn't tend to be very emotional as either town or scum, so I was able to factor out his lack of emotion, which gave me a stronger townread on him.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Metal Sonic]

1) viewtopic.php?t=58544&f=56&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select[]=15481&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go
2) viewtopic.php?t=31988&f=56&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select[]=15481&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go
3) viewtopic.php?t=58821&f=84&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select[]=15481&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go
4) viewtopic.php?t=51559&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select[]=15481&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go
5) viewtopic.php?t=34790&f=54&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select[]=15481&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go

Labelled for easy reference.

1) I was in this game. It was yet another zoraster game and I think was the only game I played with quilford. he had one of those human silhouette avatars at that time. I caught the scum. Then, when I had exams, I posted v/la in all my games, forgetting that there was a "no v/la in this game!" rule by zoraster. even though i could do that fake v/la thing like zzzx did (FUCK THE NIGHTLESS). oh and zoraster blacklisted me out of annoyance. lol. please ISO me in that game. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p6053229

2) Quilford was scum. Molla referenced as much in 1497, 1590 and 1611. Looking further at the endgame post, he won AND DIDN'T GET LYNCHED. so

My scumgame is appalling. I legit can't remember the last time I won as scum.

is a lie. a shamefully terrible lie.


3) This one is new. I think he's town from #522 helping town with optimal strategy. #525 is analysis, along with 854 and 855. Okay, going to skip and look at answer.

I was right, town.

4) These tests are getting fun. hmm, looking scummy as of post 300...

I was right, scum

*His play there is the most similar to this game, kill him?


5) He only has 31 posts... how is this remotely usable meta? Gun to head scum. *looks at playerlist* OH MY GOD ALL THE VETERANS -- Kise replaced quilford? Kise was the last to flip scum. As kuribo remarked:

wait kise replaced quilford?



god dammit, i was scum reading that shit until kise replaced in

I got them 100% right too, though I DID cheat on 2 games too cause I had prior knowledge of them.

That was fun!


Quilford is still scum.

[Quilford]

Yeah well not including hydras obviously, because I typically contribute like 5% of all the content

[Quilford]

Mina, you ready to vote?

[Metal Sonic]

That's not how reads work.

I was reading BBmolla as scum based on a number of factors, all of which I thought were pretty convincing in their own right.

But my meta with him suggested to me that often my BB reads were wildly incorrect, so my net read on him swung way back closer to null.

Or...

I'd never played with Patrick before, so I was uncertain what to make of his unemotional, straightforward play.

After I meta'd him, I saw that he didn't tend to be very emotional as either town or scum, so I was able to factor out his lack of emotion, which gave me a stronger townread on him.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

BULLSHIT

I'd like to know where meta factored in your read when you were scumreading poor Alchemist

IF YOU ACTUALLY CARE SO MUCH ABOUT META (HINT: YOU DON'T, YOU ONLY USE IT AS A CRUTCH TO GET MINA TO SHIELD YOU)

WHERE THE FUCK IS YOUR CONSIDERATION THAT
a)Alchey has only been on site for 6 months
b)Deep analysis was never Alchey's strong suit
c)He was following his town meta (I had 2 games with him, but they weren't memorable)
d)Alchey is a cutie pie

???????

I was starting to waver a teeny bit on Alchemist because he actually posted some reasoning for me being scum that wasn't 'uuuuh he's not scumhunting' without any further elaboration. But no, fuck that. His reasoning for his reads is still abysmal, there's just more of it now. I think most of my worry here comes from the fact that he's actually at L-1 now. In TM2012 I started to waver on Captain Ajax when he was really close to being lynched (until he made an awful fakeclaim), and he was scum, and I'm scared I'm going to lose my nerve here too, despite Al being my biggest scumread by miles.

Gah.

Hey Alchemist. Can you or any of your team buddies provide some actual close analysis? You're all very good at making sweeping generalisations about what a player is saying or doing, but you constantly fail to provide any evidence in the form of a player's words and actions in specific posts.

^^^^^^^

If you prized "meta", you would have meta'd alchemist and KNOWN THAT HE WAS NOT CAPABLE OF PERFORMING WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR

--------------------------> which you

incidentally

gave Johnny a

free pass

for!

WHERE IS THE META?

#467 is TEXTBOOK scum and I will now officially start looking for hat recipes

WHERE DID YOU FACTOR IN SWEET META WHEN PUSHING ALCHEMIST?

not. fucking. once.

You are still not scumhunting. Your case is basically you characterising the general thrust of groups of posts I have made. At no point do you actually delve into anything that resembles a detailed analysis of the language I'm using. There are no little things that ping your scumdar or gut one way or the other. Even in the posts you like there is no examination of why they feel genuine, or whether you agree with specific reads. Your entire case consists of a few applications of 'Here, Quilford does X. I do/don't like this.' That is not how town plays the game. It is how scum plays the game, because they're given everyone's alignments, so they don't have any reasoning behind why player X is alignment Y because either the mod told them or the mod told them something else and they're deliberately lying.

"well but you're following your town meta so hmm maybe you could be town"

NOT EVEN ONCE

MARANGAL.

Your ENTIRE case for Alchemist being town isn't that he's SCUMHUNTING CONVINCINGLY or SOUNDING GENUINE or SHOWING LOGICAL AND COMPLEX THOUGHT PROCESSES

it's that he can't be scum because HE IS PLAYING TOO POORLY TO BE SCUM

THATS THE SHITTIEST WIFOM REASON EVER, ESPECIALLY WHEN ALCHEMIST HAS A SCUM META TOTALLING TWO GAMES, AND YOU KNOW IT

SOMEONE

HAMMER

ALCHEMIST.

"SCUM META TOTALLING TWO GAMES"

GO READ HIS TOWN META YOU BLURT


Bonus:

Did you ever look at the Alch meta Patrick provided?

did quilford ever look at it? he loooooooves getting reads via metaaaaa

Even if you think Alchemist is town (and I've been wavering of late, just because he's so unimaginably scummy to me that maybe my brain has just snapped somehow; he is literally the source of my strongest scumread in maybe 3 years, or even more), you can at least acknowledge that with so much of the game scumreading him to some extent, and your own reasons for him being town being so weak and wifomy, he is a fantastic lynch for today.

^THIS IS NOT FROM TOWN

---

By the way, I'd feel guilty about starting a flash wagon now.

=20537&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go]Here is serrapaladin in Zar's Holiday Bash.

serrapaladin is scum. No questions. He gets lynched tomorrow.

Um...

Here is the game. You can ISO him for yourselves.

Gah. I should have voted him right away.

Hmm...

VOTE: serrapaladin

Mina caught serrapaladin from "meta".

Town quilford would have hopped in excitement and went to look at that game to corroborate the read, then VOTE FUCKING SCUM


LETS SEE WHAT QUILFORD'S HAD TO SAY:

Spoiler: WHERE'S YOUR HEAD AT?

her rep for good VCA and setup spec as Town

VCA is trash. Setup spec is trash, but even if you wanted to argue that, this is an Open setup. Given the quality of her case on BBmolla, which consisted purely of summaries of his posting, I'm quite comfortable not paying her any mind.

Mina

You'll thank me for this on Day 2!

Hey ETL, planning on providing literally any reasoning for all the reads you just stated?

Patrick being in first position makes me less inclined to think he's scum

?????????

Spoiler: FUCKING NEUROTIC NERVOUS BREAKDOWN

MINA

MINA HOLD ME

I'M SO UNSURE

HOW DID EVERYONE GET SO SCUMMY IN THE PAST 7 PAGES

IS IT THAT NOBODY'S REALLY PUTTING ANY EFFORT INTO THIS GAME BECAUSE IT'S THE SMALLEST ONE

I had the opposite impression--since tmost people look really, really town now? I still think scum are in {Alchemist, serra, ETL, BPC} (and ETL and BPC have a few town notes). I'm just trying to pin down a reason to strongly townread ONE of them.

But *holds you*

Where did the BBmolla read come from?

Why did you think Alchemist was town from his early posts

Okay wait hold up what the fuck

Oh that was serra you're referring to the early posts of.

Okay. Where did the BBmolla read come from?

Why would Patrick being first on the wagon have any bearing on his alignment?

What are your team's reasons for literally any of the reads you've said they hold?

I had the opposite impression--since tmost people look really, really town now? I still think scum are in {Alchemist, serra, ETL, BPC} (and ETL and BPC have a few town notes). I'm just trying to pin down a reason to strongly townread ONE of them.

But *holds you*

I have tiny doubts blooming about BBmolla and Patrick too ;-;

NO COMMENT ON MINA'S META SERRA VOTE, I SEE!

---

Bonus: I just saw the link to 4) I think?

Spoiler: rereading day 2 to punch quilford more

By a long long way, my best scum game on site was in Equinox's game Mafia on the Metro. Looking back, I still have no idea how I did it, but I think 90% of it was that I wasn't scum with anyone I was terrified of letting down, and there was nobody in the game who could read me like a book. (Well, until I fell apart at the end.)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=51559

In the interests of full disclosure I was nominated for a Scummy for my scumgame with DGB and someone else in Otters vs Tigers vs Sharks Mafia (modded by Amrun I think?) but that was ages ago, and the game was (ironically) eaten by tigers (it was recovered and put in a zip file somewhere), however my play there was really nothing special and I would have been lynched if anyone was smart enough to realise all the people who suspected me were being systematically eradicated via nightkill.

EDITOR:

I remembered Mina making a case against Johnny also which included meta elements, but couldn't find it. I remembered that Quilford was pretty reluctant to hop on, and did not make efforts to corroborate Johnny's scum meta. Not sure if this was before/after the watcher claim though. nevermind.

tl;dr you use "meta" to factor in your reads? FUCKING BULLSHIT. You're only making efforts subverting your poorish scumplay and metadefending and hugging Mina

[Metal Sonic]

THAT'S IT

I'm throwing down against Quilford. His meta links make me even more positive that he is scum; heck I read him 100% as well, and in fact in Second Fortnight I got a townread on him at post #300, and scumreading scum even earlier.

You want META? EAT MY TASTY BUSTER META

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go (speed up to 1464)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=58544

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

@Patrick, summon CDB for this meta piece

---

Let's see, I was scumreading quil beginning at post 400 when Molla remarked this (really late):

metal sonic still thinks Quil is scum btw

he says that walls =/= quil town

This was a reference to posts 400++, read that page again

Okay so there's no googly eyes moment like I had with Mina with anyone else who I think is town.

But I do like Patrick, because he was the first to bring up Alchemist. Until then I was kind of iffy about Al, because Al was asking too many questions and responding to people's thoughts rather than having any original ones of his own, but I also thought he hadn't spent a lot of time on the site (he's definitely the least experienced player here) #55 was too cheeky for newbscum, and he could just be newbtown. So I had kind of filed him under 'look into later' in my head.

But when Patrick brought up #121, I was like 'maybe I should take a closer look'. Then I realised that Al had posted

literally no reads

, almost all of his posts were part of trivial back-and-forths with people, and that he had done no digging after people's motivations of his own.

So I credit Patrick with putting me onto my first substantial scumread. I also like his meta-awareness about how Day 1 lynches tend to pan out in #311, because I find it very very relatable.

I am given slight pause by how easily he dismissed a lot of the early game in #121, and I'm unconvinced by his read on serra, but on the whole I think he's likely to be Town and at the very least isn't somewhere we should be going with today's lynch.

@Mina, I'm certain you know what I was referring to when I told molla "walls =/= town"

[Quilford]

I did meta Alchemist, but as you say there wasn't enough of it, so I wasn't confident enough to factor it into my reads.

Please shut up and go away. I'm holding you back a grade in scumhunting school after we lynch ETL, who is almost certainly scum, not the least of reasons why is because she apparently now has a scumread on Patrick, hasn't liked things in his ISO, but is not bringing them up as any townie looking to avoid being lynched and lynch their top suspect would do.

[Metal Sonic]

[quote="In post 2308, Quilford"]I did meta Alchemist, but as you say there wasn't enough of it, so I wasn't confident enough to factor it into my reads./quote]

HAHAHAHAHA

now you're lying. I took a quick look at Alchemist's topics and he has at least 11 games, at least 9 are town.

WHY DIDN'T YOU LOOK AT HIS PLETHORA OF TOWN META?

CAUSE YOU'RE SCUM PUSHING TOWN, THAT'S WHY

[Metal Sonic]

Please shut up and go away. I'm holding you back a grade in scumhunting school after we lynch ETL, who is almost certainly scum, not the least of reasons why is because she apparently now has a scumread on Patrick, hasn't liked things in his ISO, but is not bringing them up as any townie looking to avoid being lynched and lynch their top suspect would do.

YOU'RE TOAST

WE ARE NOT LYNCHING ETL TODAY. WE ARE LYNCHING QUILFORD TODAY.

he is out

[Quilford]

Great response.

[Metal Sonic]

@Mina, Vote quil
@Patrick, Vote Quil
@ETL, get yo ass back on quil

[Quilford]

Much convince

So wow

[Quilford]

For the coup de grâce, can you persuade me to vote myself???

[Metal Sonic]

@ETL Patrick isn't scum because of his attempt to get a read on Johnny and his strong analysis throughout the game. Also, he had an early scumread on serra 412 which definitely does not sound like distancing. Although his townread on Johnny earlier was mushy, 1309 later does not sound like the description of a scumbuddy, though it was too late to give him a strong townread since the Watcher had already claimed.

@ Patrick, ETL isn't scum because of the Exchange with Johnny 833 is the clearest example. Pages 34,35,36 are clearly Town vs Flipped scum examples, most especially 891 does not read like a response to a buddy.

@ Mina, count how many times I have interacted with Zar during the nightless. Particularly few as compared to other players. Also, 888 has ETL as the 2nd worst scum, no way does scum place their buddy so low on the list.

[Metal Sonic]

For the coup de grâce, can you persuade me to vote myself???

I'm from Singapore. Not China, Not Hong Kong, Not Taiwan.


Self-vote.

[Quilford]

AHAHAHA I DIDNT SAY WHEN

[Quilford]

Aaaand we're under 12 hours

[zoraster]

Day 3

EspeciallyTheLies ( 1 )

Patrick

[/color]

(L - 2 )

Quilford ( 1 )

Metal Sonic

[/color]

(L - 2 )

No Lynch ( 0 )

Not Voting ( 3 )

Quilford Mina EspeciallyTheLies

Total Votes ( 5 )

Needed to Lynch [ 3 ]

Deadline: May 12th at 20:00 EDT
(expired on 2015-05-12 20:00:00)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't want to lynch quil anymore. MS take a step back for a moment and just consider what I've said about Patrick.

VOTE: Patrick

[Metal Sonic]

are you nuts? what the fuck?

[Metal Sonic]

quil obvscummed and you're having cold feet? of all people

[Metal Sonic]

did you even read #2315????

[Patrick]

She's scum, dude. Sorry you had to find out this way.

You guys are going to force me to stay up till 2am again aren't you?