Mini 1670 - WTF MAFIA

[Derangement]

How does me being hated change the numbers at all?!

Doesn't hated mean it takes one less vote to lynch you?

You can turn that around, and interpret it like "as long as you're alive, there is one permanent extra vote on you".
If you're not scum, then this ghost-voter is helping scum's win condition, bringing them one step closer to LyLo/MyLo.

[Bins]

Yes, but an extra vote on me is useless unless there's other votes on me.


Which I'm not going to let happen. I'll ask Ika if the Hated modifier even works in LYLO. It doesn't specify in my role PM.

[Bins]

I'll get more worried in LYLO.

Ugh, the more right you get the more I regret claiming.

[Derangement]

Yes, but an extra vote on me is useless unless there's other votes on me.


Which I'm not going to let happen. I'll ask Ika if the Hated modifier even works in LYLO. It doesn't specify in my role PM.

The problem here, as pointed out in the wiki, is that if scum are aware of your hated status, they can endgame us one day sooner, which in this case is

waaay

too soon.

If you have ways to prevent your own lynch at the hands of a five-scum massclaim, then I'll tone down my despair-o-meter.
If not, then I'll play under the assumption that McMenno

needs

to be lying for town to stand a chance of winning, and vote accordingly.

[Derangement]

I'll get more worried in LYLO.

Ugh, the more right you get the more I regret claiming.

That's the problem.

If McMenno didn't lie, we

are

in MyLo.
Right now.

[Bins]

Okay, no, I get what you're saying now.

I think we should let McMenno just sit for now and actually start scumhunting.

Your worry seems more genuine and less appeasing like I first read it.

[Bins]

VOTE: Drixx

[Derangement]

On a slight tangent:

In my second (newbie) game here, a certain player outright scum-claimed.
What would you say the correct thing to do is, for town, in that kind of scenario?

[McMenno]

Does that mean you believe his claim?

Sure, at least partially.

Also you're employing the exact thing I just accused you of, so I'm happy with sitting on my vote for now.

That's perfectly fine.
I understand the need to scumhunt elsewhere, but I'm afraid I'm going to need some sleep before I'm capable of doing that properly.

In the meantime, I'll be a little obnoxious, and remind McMenno that he is doing the opposite of what he said he would.
If he wishes to contribute to town, but doesn't have the energy to actually scumhunt, he can ease in by replying to the questions already directed at him, or acknowledging he will not be doing so:

Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but why did you decide to scumhunt, rather than look purposefully scummy, or just afk and cruise-control your way to victory, McMenno?

Oh, right. And then there's the elephant in the room.
What happens if

third party

kills you, McMenno?

Or ask more details like how does his vote work, how many times (or what limits) there are on his vote, and stuff like that. Also, McMenno why did you choose to just spill your guts in the first post of the game instead of waiting till you were in any danger?

Thank you for your consideration, and see you all in a few hours!

1. Because I thought people would believe my claim? It's WTF Mafia, after all.

2. Third Party is a faction. I've just asked the mod what would happen if I self-hammer.

3. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... ess_Spirit

4. See 1.

[Derangement]

1. Because I thought people would believe my claim? It's WTF Mafia, after all.

This makes it sound like you made your role up, and hope people will believe it because we're in WTF mafia.

2. Third Party is a faction. I've just asked the mod what would happen if I self-hammer.

Please keep us posted with the mod response for exactly what happens if Third Party kills you, or you self-hammer.
Thanks!

[Wanderer-nl]

I've slept on mcmenno's role and I don't think it's possible. We know there are at least 2 scum factions, and the way mcmenno explained it is that if one faction hammers, he will be against the other. As a 3rd party, he is already against every other faction, but he gets more against the faction that hammers/kills him? I found the restless spirit in the mafiawiki too last nigt, and that's why I needed more time to think, because finding that role there meant for me that it was less likely a lie. Even if he gets to vote, he shouldn't be able to keep posting so he can't influence the game much anyway. If there's people with 4-part roles (like Bins claimed) then I think town still has a good shot at finding scum.
Also, Derangment; your lylo/mylo theory feels off to me because we know there is a scumfaction, we know there is town, we know there is 3rd party scum, apparently mcmenno is another 3rd party, with all theses parties I think lylo/mylo might not be as soon as you fear.

VOTE: mcmenno

@Bins: I'm sorry you claimed, I'm afraid you will have to be a PL before lylo if you're town because we can't have hated town around for lylo. Scum will need one vote less on you, and as such have already won then. But the fact that you claimed a 4-part-role might get you killed before lylo.
To everyone else thinking about claiming: please read up on your role first on the wiki. Just about every role contains tips on how to play the role/against the role.

[Derangement]

Also, Derangment; your lylo/mylo theory feels off to me because we know there is a scumfaction, we know there is town, we know there is 3rd party scum, apparently mcmenno is another 3rd party, with all theses parties I think lylo/mylo might not be as soon as you fear.

I hope you're right, because mod posts make me think the third-party scum wins

with

scum, and not against them as a SK usually might.

Mafia

: eliminate all players who can not win with you

3rd party scum

: live long enough to see town lose

@Moderator: Could you please clarify if a scenario with three mafia , one third party scum, and four town players still alive is game-over (3+1 vs 4) or not (3 vs 1 vs 4)?

Thank you.

[Flubbernugget]

Menno's claim is distracting from scumhunting. Scum are capitalising on this.

VOTE: Derangement

This isn't enough to start scumhunting

It's enough to park an opportunistic vote and run away

[Flubbernugget]

@Flubbernugget - If you want to see what it looks like for me to lose my cool, you may take a look at some other games and see it. If you think I've lost my cool and you don't see tons of bolding and underlining and profanity ... I probably haven't. I'm super calm almost all the time. If I do get irritated, I generally just go play a video game or get my aerobics in for the day. It takes a significant amount to actually get me upset enough that it actually spills out into a mafia game.

To me, it looks a lot like Derangement is the one pushing to keep McMenno alive. My initial reaction was the believe the claim or at least to be wary of lynching him just in case, but after I thought about it I just don't buy the claim. The only reason not to lynch him today would be if most of us believe the claim and aren't willing to waste a "mislynch" on him. Does anyone really want to leave him alive long term?

And you're wrong, by the way. If his claim is honest, then Derangement is right and I was right in my initial thoughts on the situation, and if he was honest with his claim then it makes sense to keep him around until lynching him wouldn't put us into immediate end game. Killing him puts us in a precarious spot if his claim is true. I just happen to have changed my mind on the probability of his claim being true.

You don't get to claim I'm defending someone when I'm suggesting we kill them at a time when his claim being honest would be less harmful to town. You certainly don't get to claim I'm defending someone when I've labeled him a Policy Lynch in all cases. You're barking up the wrong tree by several miles, mate.

What part of I scum read you if

and only if

mcmenno flips scum don't you understand

[Ricastle]

My gut is getting bad vibes from the Menno wagon but on the other hand it's a fair point that his role sounds like bullshit and doesn't correlate with the Restless Spirit, which would be a WTF role in its own right. Hm.

Pedit: What do you suggest I do, Flubber? McMenno is the only topic on the table and roughly half the players haven't posted out of RVS.

[Flubbernugget]

The only way to really be certain about the lylo/mylo situation is to massclaim, which is a terrible idea because then we know the protectives and we're really fucked

So I don't think it's worth speculating on

[Flubbernugget]

My gut is getting bad vibes from the Menno wagon but on the other hand it's a fair point that his role sounds like bullshit and doesn't correlate with the Restless Spirit, which would be a WTF role in its own right. Hm.

Pedit: What do you suggest I do, Flubber? McMenno is the only topic on the table and roughly half the players haven't posted out of RVS.

Why isn't elusive worth a vote?

[Derangement]

The only way to really be certain about the lylo/mylo situation is to massclaim, which is a terrible idea because then we know the protectives and we're really fucked

So I don't think it's worth speculating on

What if the only thing we claim is faction (town, third-party, scum)?

[Ricastle]

Why isn't elusive worth a vote?

Never said she wasn't; I only have one vote. Does it matter which Menno pusher I vote?

What if the only thing we claim is faction (town, third-party, scum)?

[Flubbernugget]

Meh.

My point is that in a role madness game going "we're at mylo/lylo if you count it" isn't worth basing play on

I think not knowing the 3p's wincons can also make this really dangerous for town

[Drixx]

My gut is getting bad vibes from the Menno wagon but on the other hand it's a fair point that his role sounds like bullshit and doesn't correlate with the Restless Spirit, which would be a WTF role in its own right. Hm.

Pedit: What do you suggest I do, Flubber? McMenno is the only topic on the table and roughly half the players haven't posted out of RVS.

Bad day one wagons are generally not resisted. The amount of resistance to what should be a super easy decision to get rid of a huge threat to town just reinforces the necessity of it, at least for me.

[Flubbernugget]

Why isn't elusive worth a vote?

Never said she wasn't; I only have one vote. Does it matter which Menno pusher I vote?

Okay so why is elusive townier than derangement?

[Ricastle]

Okay so why is elusive townier than derangement?

I never said that.

[shos]

Getting to this game soooon

[Flubbernugget]

Okay so why is elusive townier than derangement?

I never said that.

If elusive isn't townier than derangement, why are you not voting her?