Mini #97 - The Aftermath - Game OVER

[MeMe]

Confirm

[MeMe]

vote: bigbenwd

Yeah, yeah...I know he's already got a vote. But he seemed rather eager to get the game on AND massive said that he'd confirmed, but he's the only one not to do so in-thread (perhaps because he was already talking to massive about a late-night visit to ZONE's pad...?). Anyway.

[MeMe]

Wow. You're

right

. I probably should've waited until everyone had one vote apiece...then feigned frustration and said something like "this is getting us nowhere -- I'm voting bigben for not confirming in the thread." How

dare

I put on a second vote without doing the random dance first.

Let me explain something to everyone...there is a

reason

for random voting. We do it when we have nothing to go on. We do it to elicit responses. We do it to get the game rolling. Guess what? All of this becomes unnecessary when you

have

an idea to run with. Granted, it wasn't "evidence" against bigben -- but it was something to start with. And now, with this:

I didn't confirm? I could've sworn I had. I even remember how I confirmed, it was super clever and everything.

and

vote: meme

for putting on a second vote.

There's even

more

to work with. He claims he had a "super clever" confirmation (damn...I wish it were in the thread so we all could enjoy it); and he second votes me for second voting him. What was just somewhat better than a random vote on bigben is turning out to have some heft to it, in my opinion.

[MeMe]

That doesn't make as much sense as it would have if it immediately followed ID's post as I intended.

[MeMe]

Aw...it made at least as much sense as a random vote AND it got things snapping. You're welcome.

Though, let me point out that I didn't say he "must've" sent it in with a choice; just "perhaps." And, as posted twice now by ben himself, he thought he

did

confirm in the thread, so that you've gone out of your way to provide him with a "doesn't know how to follow directions" excuse that he doesn't want or need is interesting indeed.

[MeMe]

You've gone out of your way one way, I've gone out of my way in the opposite direction. Let's call it even, huh?

No...you've gone out of your way to

defend

a player...which is far different than going out of one's way to

suspect

a player. It's my job to find scum, not stick up for people this early in the game.

I'm saying that all your idea meant to me at the time was that ben "doesn't know how to follow directions." What ben says now would make your idea moot, as well as my interpretation of your idea.

No - it makes my idea more plausible, if anything. His excuse (huh! I thought I did!)

sounds

like an excuse; and that it exists at all (and twice) makes your explanation of his behavior is simply incorrect.

And now here...

Nice post pheobus, and I'm obviously not stupid enough to kill off someone who half the people here know is my enemy for some time. I beleive that the mafia is trying to frame me.

He basically says "yeah - that's what I thought, Phoebus, I'm being framed!" ZONEACE has offended/pissed off quite a number of people on this board...that bigben is

one

of them hardly makes the framing theory a sure thing. I'm pretty comfy sitting on ben for now.

[MeMe]

No - it makes my idea more plausible, if anything. His excuse (huh! I thought I did!)

sounds

like an excuse; and that it exists at all (and twice) makes your explanation of his behavior is simply incorrect.

AGAIN, I was not trying to explain his behavior, nor am I making excuses for him. I'm pointing out the flaws in

your

idea. You can keep trying to make this to be me defending ben, but the reality is that I'm attacking you for

your

foolish idea.

There are two places where I think you've come to ben's defense, Mike. With your first post here:

Vote: Phoebus

for going straight to ben, AKA easiest bandwagon known to man.

And then where you try to explain his non-confirmation here (and this is the specific one to which I've been referring in my earlier posts):

Your original idea didn't make sense, though. He didn't confirm in the thread, so he must've done it while sending his choice in? Even if that's true, his choice is just as likely, if not more likely, to be a pro-town role's choice. All it tells me about ben is that he doesn't know how to follow directions.

The first isn't fair. Why is ben off-limits? He just won his last mini as scum -- he's a capable player and a valid random vote.

The second looked, to me, like "no big deal...he's just a screw up." I'm saying that he has debunked the interpretation you put forth above by saying, in essense, that he

knew

he was supposed to confirm in thread...thought he

did

confirm in the thread...but his attempt was thwarted by his mother.

Mike - I'm not picking on ben -- and, if you look over the discussion threads, you'll find that I

never

do. Call my original reason for voting ben "ridiculous" -- that's your prerogative. But it has become ever more reasonable as the posts pile up.

[MeMe]

Mike, were you

seriously

hoping for me to surrender to your charge that my initial vote was unreasonable? That you waited until now to vote me looks

even more

as though you were hoping for me to back off of ben rather than to actually follow through with a vote on me.

Regardless of whether or not you believe me to be unreasonable -- there's no denying that you're the one who's being unreasonable now. As noted a couple of times, ben's posts since my vote are enough to suspect him. That you don't address that and instead keep hammering that you don't agree with my

initial

reason for voting is just silly -- a bit like a cop refusing to pull over a speeding car because the driver was mistakenly accused of being a peeping tom the night before.

[MeMe]

meme seems like she REALLY wants to lynch me, and I'm not sure why.

If you don't know why I'm voting you, you should probably read the thread. I've been quite clear.

[MeMe]

unvote: bigbenwd

Although I really rather you'd stopped at "deputy" (or that you'd just claimed "mason")...but hey.

vote: indentureddjinn

[MeMe]

Either mason or deputy is a pretty strong claim, ben, and often believed with nothing else required. If more was necessary, you would have been told. As it stands, you've informed everyone that:

1) There's a cop AND a back-up cop AND they know each other
2) I've been investigated (puts me in danger of being night-killed)

I'm just saying that less would have probably been better. As for the vote on ID -- your claim is believable, so that puts the "ben & Mike = mafia?" theory to bed, so I'm going with the guy who pointed a finger at those of us who were involved most heavily in the earlier discussion (me, you, Mike) but wasn't willing to vote any of us at the time. This looks like possible positioning to add his vote to whichever emerged as the big bandwagon, without the muss of having to switch his vote if he chose incorrectly.

[MeMe]

Ah, the pure joy of having an almost air-tight role claim...you can be as irrational as you want and be in no danger of the noose.

So, ben, you're saying that even if you knew for a fact that the result of my investigation was "innocent" -- that wouldn't deter you from voting for me? How would you justify that later on? "Well, I investigated her...but I

still

thought she was scum." When you get an innocent result, assume it's true unless proven otherwise (like after the mafia kill me tonight for being an exposed innocent, say).

[MeMe]

Hmmm...were you worried about "jumping the gun" here (third vote on me early in the day)?

vote: MeMe

for double voting someone on day 1 without any real proof and only going on speculation

Now THAT's funny...

[MeMe]

Although I think the bulk of Jolle's post is quite good - and he makes a decent case for lynching LS over ID, I'm concerned about this portion...

That brings me to this: We should try to end this day quite quickly. A night will provide Bigben and probably other investigative roles with more information. Off course, the main problem is whom to lynch, but I think it is even better to lynch someone who is probably scum, than to go on with our "bandwaggon->unvote->bandwaggon->unvote"-thingy, until we discover someone who is almost certainly scum.

Which advocates a fast day...and says "it is even better to lynch someone who is probably scum." Fast days are bad...and "duh" to trying to lynch scum. The desire for information control

could

be chalked up to newbieness...but it also could be an advocation of quickly getting someone else into the noose (other than ID) without too much examination -- I checked Jolle's other posts and I think it's

possible

this is a stab at a diversionary bandwagon.

Jolle, you have to remember that scum have more information than town. Town gets most of their information during the day phase, and "if you really want to lynch a doctor go ahead" certainly isn't proof-positive that ID's a doc.

But, on the strength of Jolle's points...

FOS: Lord Sewerrat

And on the red flags that Jolle's post has raised...

FOS: Jolle

[MeMe]

As I said earlier...

but it also could be an advocation of quickly getting someone else into the noose (other than ID) without too much examination -- I checked Jolle's other posts and I think it's

possible

this is a stab at a diversionary bandwagon.
<<snip>>

"if you really want to lynch a doctor go ahead" certainly isn't proof-positive that ID's a doc.

I'm not one to change my vote when I think it's someone's

plan

to have me do so, Jolle. I thought ID was a valid vote before you suggested LS as a target and I still do. I might change my mind later, but for now I'm more comfortable sticking with

my

instincts over yours. After all, I know my motivation...yours isn't so clear.

[MeMe]

If there's another doctor, come out now. If there is not, why wouldn't I believed. No one to this point has disputed my claim, and if there is, come out now

Not a good idea to have a doctor risk himself to save you, ID -- even if you are telling the truth. If I were a doctor, I certainly wouldn't have spoken up to "dispute" your claim...it's quite common to have more than one doctor in a mini game, so it wouldn't prove or disprove anything.

Basically, I don't believe your claim -- and, if you'll notice,

none

of the four voting for you have removed their vote. So, I'm apparently not the only one who's skeptical.

Oh -- who'd you protect last night?

[MeMe]

I held this information back in hopes it would come in handy...so glad I did.

I was the arsonist's target last night. I received a PM saying that I was engulfed in smoke, but luckily the fire engines came to the rescue and I stayed outside all night watching to make sure my home didn't burn to the ground.

So...1) It's not possible for me to have been toodling around in a cab while simultaneously watching the flame-show; 2) I was apparently saved by firefighters, not Winchester Late.

[MeMe]

[MeMe]

Well, this was definitely fun...wish I could've lasted longer! Very nice job, scum.

And massive - you're evil. (But, for the record, mneme flipped roles in #50).

[MeMe]

I targeted mikehart night 1

[MeMe]

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