NY 183 - Apocalypse Mafia

[pisskop]

Also, to be clear, Ric wasnt a neighbor, and whomever he targets isn't conftown? Like Ric wasn't weak, was he?

[Rubicon]

Vampire doesn't look especially scummy to me, but I don't think they've been especially town either so what's the case? Because I think you're not a terrible choice for scum either Rubicon.

I don't know what your point is here.

Also, to be clear, Ric wasnt a neighbor, and whomever he targets isn't conftown? Like Ric wasn't weak, was he?

To quote Ricastle,

And to answer your point about the role, I believe it can be considered weak in a sense and I can see it being considered weak by some people. But the main point is that Klingon clearly displayed knowledge beyond me simply being a PR. Knowledge she is not willing to divulge, and for good reason as it would completely expose her and shatter the case on me.

There is no other reason as to why she would refuse to explain herself that involves her being town.

[Vampirate]

Alright let's review my case shall we on the theory i'm scum.

Day 1:

1. 27 Pages in and no one ever really bothers to mention KC until post #674 when grib voted KC, it doesn't matter, grib gets the cred here for his suspicions on KC.

2. Post #723: I was officially in the game.

3. Post #808 House was the first person to suspect KC, gotta give credit where it's due here. It doesn't confirm RIP as auto town. This was on Day 1 as well. Read this if you'd like.

4. Post #818 House clearly has KC in his scum list on Day 1. Again, doesn't town confirm RIP just keep it in mind.

5. Post #897 Bellaphant has KC as scum.

6. Post #909 Davesaz has KC as null-scum

7. Post #1038 Xay has KC has as null-scum

8. Post #1058 grib wouldn't mind lynching KC

9. Post #1104 Day 2 Starts. Wow, kinda eye opening. Ok, so I wasn't near the first one who suspected KC. Considering KC's role as I doubt scum would want her killed right away as Day talk is very important to mafia and the fact these people had her as suspects on Day 1, i'm reluctant to vote for Grib, RIP, Taly and Davesaz. They aren't town cleared, but it's something to keep in mind.

10. Post #1151 Scum boon pushes for KC.

11. Post #1250 Nero really questions KC's logic, and continues to do so afterwards.

12. Post #1260 Ricastle asks me how i'm reading KC

13. Post #1321 I had 2 votes on me, Elusive and Pointy.

14. Post #1323 Ricastle really starts to question KC and does so on afterwards.

15. Post #1331 I respond to Ricastle with my suspicions on KC.

(Alright, so let's say i'm scum. So you mean to tell me that I went ahead and bussed my teammate KC who has the ability to let us use day talk to get the pressure off me from the previous lynch which carried over to Day 2 and to also get town credit?)

16. Post #1333 Here I apparently go, all in on the buss, voting KC, being the first one, not carring that KC's role allows daytalk.

If i'm scum, i'm a horrible team player and am only out for myself considering then I wanted the pressure off me, get the town credit of being the first who voted her on Day 2 and never cared about her role or how it helps the team!

16. Post #1341 Rationalmadman scum reads KC here.

17. Post #1386 Ricastle votes KC

18. Post #1393 House votes KC

19. Post #1422 Now I am scum, I know Ricastle is the Freindly Neighbour, so I defend him (null read on this, I could do this as scum), if i'm scum, it still makes me a horrible teammate of throwing KC under the buss from Post #1333 and not caring about how her role would effect the team.

20. Post #1446 Pointy null-scum reads KC with the line "Klingon seemed to be digging herself into a bit of a hole" and then inda explains the behavior away, defends KC and accuses Ricastle in posts to follow, however this was before he was neighbored so i'll give him a pass.

21. Post #1461 Nero votes KC

22. Post #2204 Pointy suspects KC

23. Post #2232 Pointy votes KC

(same reason as for me, if Pointy is scum, he's honestly doing a horrible move by throwing KC, a role that allows day talk, just to get town credit)

I can go on if people wish. My vote was on KC the entirety of Day 3.

Ok, to sum it up. If i'm scum, i'm the worst teammate ever as I would have to have bussed KC to get pressure off me and get the town credit if she was killed. I would also not have cared about her role as the Day talk ability is a very useful scum ability for coordination and day manipulation.

People I will not vote for today: Grib, RIP, Taly, Davesaz, Nero, Pisskop and Pointy.

People I would vote for in order: Elusive, Rubicon, Errant and Peace.


I'm aware that there may be scum in my people I don't want to vote for and town in the people I do, but this is a good place to start imo.

[Vampirate]

Btw I have no idea if there was bussing, but I find it hard to believe considering KC's mafia role.

[Vampirate]

And to be frank, considering her role, if KC and I were scum i'd have told her to buss the fuck out of me on Day 1 to get credit for my scum flip.

[Taly]

@Mod and Everyone

Going V/LA 25th to 29th. Mini vacation, starting off the summer. <3

Will make short replies every now and then in between.

[Vampirate]

Sorry Nero, I got lazy, i'll do yours some other time assuming i'm not lynched and still alive.

Elusive

1. Post #981 is pretty much discrediting Skold here on his thinking. I don't see anything wrong with Skold's way of thinking. Of course that's Skold defending me so not much weight should be put here.

2. Post #997 The vote count was between Skold and myself. Here's the Quote

I'm always a minority on no lynch and then someone flips town and I hate it so much.

It's between Skold and

Vampirate

based on the last VC? Ugh

Here she does not like the 2 wagons.

I also have disliked Vampirate from day one but I don't know if that's "it's scum dislike" or "why is this still alive" dislike.

Here she claims she

disliked Vampirate from day one but I don't know if that's "it's scum dislike" or "why is this still alive" dislike.

Lie, you are clearly against it in the prior post. If I die, you get the town credit.

3. Post #1133

Wagon analysis though is of interest to me.

She wants to do wagon analysis.

Please don't do wagon analysis unless you are capable of doing it properly, starting from day one because otherwise you look like an imbecile who is trying to fit a fake read to selective evidence.

Now after the KC flip she's discouraging it on the basis people look stupid if not done correctly. Imo everyone should do wagon analysis.

You make the call here.

4. Post #1398

I agree with Peace about Ricastle and also I see that once again a counter wagon has developed to Vampirate. Am I going to have to vig that blood sucker or what?

She calls the KC a counter wagon to mine after mine had 2 whole lovely votes,

Elusive

and Pointy .

(thus, going on the theory that i'm scum and her theory that it was a counter wagon. After 2 votes I threw KC under the Buss fearing the getting lynched. Yes, according the Elusive, after 2 whole votes on me, I feared he worst and Bussed a role that allows Day chat just to save my skin and give me town credit)

Also, now she's against me for some reason, even though she was against the Skold/Vampirate lynch on Day 1.

5. In the same post, Post #1398 she tries to discredit Ricastle with this for a Day 1 mislynch:

Actually, when a town super hard pushes a bad read they should stop, drop and roll. Or they should shut it and think for a while before doing anything else. At the very least they shouldn't expect people to listen or care about their second hard push that also lacks logic.

6.

I've seen KC mislynched as town for foot in the mouth kind of posts. I want to see if her scum game is particularly different in terms of that playerstyle.

Softly defending KC here.

7. Post #1414 She votes Ricastle because she expects him to be humble (why is not being humble alignment indictive?) She also doesn't like Ricastle's reaction to a Day 1 lynch where the odds of actually lynching a town a pretty small. This is her stated reason for voting Ricastle.

8. Post #1416

Is this another scum slip? Jbomber cracked under pressure and replaced out, therefore was Ricastle trying to bus his buddy? Or was he moving on from what he thought might be an easy lynch in Grib to a town player who cracked under pressure?

Ok so you are against my slot here and you are framing Ricastle for it. Got ya.

So, reading Ricastle's read of Grib is really bad. He forces everything to fit into "Grib is scum" which falls into one of the classic scum tells of a player who tunnels excessively, warps posts to make them seem scum, and doesn't question similar playstyles,

More Ricastle framing, I wonder why.

Your interactions with Skold are more in the vein of warping evidence and doing a lot of research only to warp it into your scum reads of him.

Irony

With all these townreads I'm getting I'm seriously worried for my safety tonight.

Creative, Rubicon, Nero, Grib, are any of you up for a jbomber wagon?

Supposedly, he's scumreading Grib so far - why is he asking him to join a wagon with him?

If you are scum reading Ricastle and supposedly jbomber for your cracking under pressure line, wouldn't you WANT people to join my slots wagon and lynch me? You are soft defending my slot here and you are contradicting yourself.

Deadline extension? Christ I hope not. We should just lynch jbomber and be done with this day if it comes to that.

Where did this fervor go? What is Ricastle's read on Vampirate who replaced Jbomb and why isn't he trying to ensure that slot's demise?

Because of his KC scum read and obviously because of his role and targeting me with his ability.

Then there's this:

...Well, that's SK out of the window.

The Doc must have protected someone fairly townread/obvious. I'd say the most likely of which would have to be me, BagelS, or Nero. I'll see if I can find anything based off of that now.

By the way, I don't really care that Skold flipped town. He brought it on himself as far as I'm concerned.

"Well, that's SK out of the window?"

SK fixated much?

Wow, can someone neutral tell me why in the world Ricastle is so obsessed with the SK?

There is no town role who would obsess over and fixate on the SK to this degree. Either Ricastle is scum and trying to find the SK or he's the SK and projecting. Which, one of my completed games (Drawn on Arrival), the SK tried to pin their SKness on town players for a while before being put down.

Again, Day 1 reads, you are slandering him because of Day 1 reads.

9. Post #1424

Vampirate, I would be happy with a lynch today of either you or Ricastle. Eventually both.

LOL

Why did jbomber pop like a bubble at the slightest hint of pressure?

I'm not Jbomber obviously, going on the theory that jbomber was scum and he cracked, why didn't you vote him? You clearly didn't like both the Vampirate wagons and the Skold wagons, never voted, wanted a no lynch and you are accusing me (at the time) now?

He also has a semantics slip where he refers to town as an entity outside of himself.

How is this even alignment indicative? What are you trying to say here?

Now, Vampirate you tell me what you think of Ricastle's SK obsession or why he dropped his scum read on your predecessor once you replaced in?

I honestly can't think of what you are trying to say here. You think Ric dropped his scum read on me as soon as I arrived? How does this even logically make any sense?

When I end up leading a mislynch on a townie, I'll look back and reflect and find my sense of inner peace before approaching the game from a different angle.

Yet you go ooooohhh Ricastle shouldn't be blaming people because he mislynched someone on Day 1 of all days, yet you say if you do it, no biggie.

10. Post #1494 Is using the House/Nero fight to make her case on the Nero/KC fiasco.

11. Post #1532 is distancing right here from KC

12. Post #1630 is trying to put KC in a good light.

13. Post #1657

I also don't find Ricastle's case to be very strong. In fact it relies pretty much on KC not being able to explain clearly why she finds Nero weird. I read his case three times to make sure I could look at it objectively (and negate the frothing) and I still don't find it interesting. The fact that he isn't asking her anything else is also weird. Like why not ask her for her reads or what her thoughts are on specific players?

This is softly trying to diffuse Ricastle's case on KC

14. Post #1671 is more discrediting of Ricastle

15. Post #1683

My issue with Ricastle is that I didn't like his reasoning for voting Skold

What about the other people who voted Skold, why single out Ricastle?

and now I don't like or follow his reasoning for voting Klingoncelt. I have to look at Klingoncelt's four games that he linked to further ascertain whether or not what he's saying is congruent with the actual games which will most likely happen this weekend.. I've actually pointed out the reasons I found him to be odd. If the logic doesn't make sense to me then I pursue it until it does or the player with the weird logic can better explain or stops with the misuse of logic.

The logic made plenty of sense, you just kept on brushing it aside, like here for example.

I actually, haven't taken any heat off of KlingonCelt in the sense that I've asked her questions and asked for her a reads posts with reasons (as well as Nero a reads post with reasons and I want Houses' read on KC particularly since he knows her better). I've also asked a couple of other players questions that are pending to be answered.

You never really put any pressure on KC at all until it looked like she was about to be lynched.

Do I question people who are taking leadership roles but who I personally believe aren't the best town leaders? Yes, definitely.

More Discrediting tactics.

This is my town game

Self meta and a pointless statement considering scum would say the same, and KC has.

and if I feel like a player is anti-town or making bad choices I will try to figure them or shut down what sounds like nonsense.

Or to sum it up, make Ricastle look bad and make KC look good.


16. Post #1831 Still isn't sold despite the evidence. I'll give her credit on the fact that she didn't like KC's Bellaphant voteand wanted the reads list, however I don't buy it. More scum distancing to me.

17. Post #1838 She thinks certain flips will reveal information. Great. However KC was in one of those flips and she never went through with it.

In the same post she's defending KCs FoS on Nero.

18. Post #1839 She is finally scum reading KC (for what reason, no read list? She can't claim it was because of Ricastle's case on her as she wasn't buying it) yet never voted for her, if you read someone who's most likely scum, why not vote them?

19. Post #2217, one of the very few I actually like from her.

20. Post #2294 KC is back on her ok list for some reason.

21. Post #2298 *sigh* more playing down of Ricastle and Nero

22. Post #2375 is discrediting Nero about being on a 3rd mislynch when the 3rd Day wasn't even over.

23. Post #2428 is more self meta and a bit wifomy.

24. Post #2432 she says that lynching KC or House might figure out the other, she never went through with this.

25. Post #2438 more discrediting of Nero.

26. Post #2448 Why on earth would you trust others over yourself? When town, the only people you can truly trust is yourself unless someone is confirmed 100% town. Makes no logical sense.

27. Post #2585 Another post I actually like. RIP did go from person to person in his votes. Thing is his slot scum read KC so i'm town reading RIP for now.

28. Post #2589 again you said KC was probably scum yet never voted with it, not once. Why?

29. Post #2655 Why are you voting Pointy after claiming KC was probably scum earlier. What did KC do that changed youyr mind then?

30. Post #2686

If I hammer KC and she flips town then what will change?

Considering KCs scum role, a whole lot.

Obviously if she flips scum then I learned a valuable lesson but my gut says otherwise.

What did KC ever do that made you think she's town?

Oh and do you find it convenient that Nero is trying to scum read me for defending KC so that if she flips scum I'm obviously scum with her and now also added another addendum in which if she flips town then I'm also scum. When there's no way out of the box, that's what you call a fake read and a scum tunnel because town at least try to consider a situation where a player may be town while scum don't.

In hindsight, scum would defend a role however they could that gives them the ability to day talk.

Ricastle, Nero is the one who keeps bringing it up. I moved past it for the most part although its still there in the back of my head. However, the fact that he keeps bringing it up probably in the hopes that either I push you or vice versa tells me something important.

Ricastle was scumreading you before he claimed.

What do you think of him hard pushing KC and now trying to derail her wagon?

When did you even get on the KC wagon?

31. Post #2780 It's now out in the open what Ricastle is and you are slandering Pointy here imo.

32. Post #2847 You say "If KC flips town then my reads are off" When were you ever truly scum reading her or putting any pressure on her if you really were?

33. Post #2954 Says she would Buss KC over the edge. KC was encrypter. Bad mafia move. Correct mafia move is have KC buss you. You make no logical sense here.

Also, in the very same post she is discouraging wagon analisys, because the player is not good at it. Damage control.


34. Post #2957 Guess who her favorite slander toy is. She is borderline insulting me to back up her case. Also, using insults is a scummy tactic when scum are on the ropes.

To be honest, I was on the fence of her for a while until she went into insult mode to make me look bad.

35. Post #2966 is a flat out lie, you DIDN'T want Skold and myself to be lynched, you advocated for a no lynch.

36. Post #2971 First part is bull, the 2nd part you are leaving out the part where you constantly tried to slander Ricastle and discredit him while making KC look good. Once Ricastle caimed you went on to Nero, now you are slandering me.

37. Post #2978 You said you ISO me about my suspicions on KC and then ....

38. Post #3006 Hey what happened to that ISO you were going to do on me? You are now trying to shift blame to RIP here. This post is full of excuses imo


VOTE: Elusive


Anyways, i've stated my case, if people want me lynched go ahead. I've said what I wanted to say about Elusive now.

[Errantparabola]

Taly, Pisskop, and I have all been Klingon counterwagons. I think that gives me a slight townlean for them.

Why only slight
Like why would scum try to counterwagon on one of their own
I say more than slight, right?

Alright question time.

Out of Elusive, RIP and Peace, which of these 3 would give the most information when they flip?

Definitely not Peace, because as it stands we have a good to fair chance that Peace is going to continue giving town information
I do think that Elusive flipping town would go a long ways towards solidifying some townreads. if elusive flipped scum, then I would also be suspicious of PB's legitimacy and townread her major attackers
I'm going to say that boons was not aware of KC's role, but only the identity of the scum. Is that a plausible assumption to make? I feel like it would explain the boons bus
I do think that vamp's 3027 is legit because the only way I see scum bussing KC is when KC is too far gone to say "oh it's plausible that we can divert this wagon" and I think that vamp's vote on KC was earlier than that point of no return

My question is- why would scum kill castle, who's just basically a completely confirmed vt, over peace, who has a chance of finding the guilties? That's sort of odd to me and, you know, peace could be scum

[Errantparabola]

VAMP: although you say that RIP isn't confirmed as auto-town, you could also apply the "I would be a horrible scum partner to KC" arguments to RIP's ancestor, right?
So do you expect us to have same-strength townleans to both RIP and you for that?
Or do you think that RIP should have more because his predecessor initiated the KC thing?

[PointYBagelS]

Why only slight
Like why would scum try to counterwagon on one of their own
I say more than slight, right?

Well there's no reason to assume

all

of the counterwagons were scumwagons. Especially since there were 3 at the same time on day 2, it's likely that at least one of them was a town wagon, which may have been on scum.

[Vampirate]

VAMP: although you say that RIP isn't confirmed as auto-town, you could also apply the "I would be a horrible scum partner to KC" arguments to RIP's ancestor, right?
So do you expect us to have same-strength townleans to both RIP and you for that?
Or do you think that RIP should have more because his predecessor initiated the KC thing?

Errant, i've already given House the credit before me as he was the first person to truly suspect KC on day 1.

I've already stated that I will not lynch RIP. In order for me to go with a RIP lynch, i'd need hard proof.


Anyways, they went after Ricastle because Ricastle was 99% confirmed town and they probably didn't want confirmed towns alive as the game went along. That's why I think it was very predictable.

Let me ask you this, would you Buss KC knowing her role Errant if you were scum?

Go and apply this to RIP, might as well.

[Vampirate]

Also Errant, i'm starting to like your slot more, keep it up!

[PointYBagelS]

Vamp why is RIP town?

[Shinobi]

Vote Count

RIP

(2):

Nero Cain, elusive

Vampirate

(2):

PeaceBringer, Rubicon

Errantparabola

(1):

PointYBagelS

elusive

(1):

Vampirate

Not Voting

(6):

Errantparabola, pisskop, davesaz, Taly, Grib, RIP

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-06-06 02:00:00)

[elusive]

VOTE: Vampirate

Can't be on the same wagon as that heathen, so this is where it's at. Also the irony.

[PeaceBringer]

If part of the reason KC was scum is because she had inside info on Ric
and if Pointy is truly town
then Vamp has to be scum

[Vampirate]

VOTE: Vampirate

Can't be on the same wagon as that heathen, so this is where it's at. Also the irony.

So you don't bother to counter any of my points, all you did was call me a heathen and vote me.

If part of the reason KC was scum is because she had inside info on Ric
and if Pointy is truly town
then Vamp has to be scum

1. Ok Peace answer me this. How confident are you in your ability when it already failed on KC? You cannot town clear someone just because they didn't act, hasn't the KC fiasco proven this. Also just to be understood i'm not scum reading Pointy here, just pointing out flawed logic.

2. Any scum can just come up and say "I know your role Ricastle", Do you have any hard evidence of KC actually knowing Ricastle's role other than her claiming to?

3. Why would KC claim she knew Ricastle's role considering what it was? Wouldn't it be a better idea for the scum team to try and manipulate him and get him on their side. This clearly did not happen. What logic would it be to try and claim that you know someone's role if they were a friendly neighbor. Imo, scum would exploit this to the max, not try and kill him in the lynch. (which I supported Ricastle's side and not KC's side obviously)

4. Explain how the following makes any sense: (After 2 votes I threw KC under the Buss fearing the getting lynched. Yes, according the Elusive, after 2 whole votes on me, I feared he worst and Bussed a role that allows Day chat just to save my skin and give me town credit)

[PeaceBringer]

1. Player did not act, the arguement is discredit
2 and 3 is floundering defense for the KC knew something arguement. It is a bunch of noise.

4. It is the bussing wouldn't make sense arguement. Always those statements are WIFOM. People can and certainly do such things.

[Vampirate]

If part of the reason KC was scum is because she had inside info on Ric
and if Pointy is truly town
then Vamp has to be scum

There were plenty of reasons to vote KC way before Ricastle claimed, why are you signaling out just one part? The reason why the KC wagon started and really took off was because she was FoSing Ricastle and Nero for dumb reasons.

There was way more than 1 reason to lynch KC, but you are using only one of them to support your argument to vote me.

[Vampirate]

By the by Peace, considering you, Rubicon and Elusive want me dead (re markedly they targeted me after I was putting pressure on them)

@Peace what is your read on Elusive and Rubicon?

@Elusive what is your read on Peace and Rubicon?

@Rubicon what is your read on Elusive and Peace?

I want some detailed answers, no 'I find x person to lean town' crap, give me some evidence why you feel that way.

[PeaceBringer]

If part of the reason KC was scum is because she had inside info on Ric
and if Pointy is truly town
then Vamp has to be scum

There were plenty of reasons to vote KC way before Ricastle claimed, why are you signaling out just one part? The reason why the KC wagon started and really took off was because she was FoSing Ricastle and Nero for dumb reasons.

There was way more than 1 reason to lynch KC, but you are using only one of them to support your argument to vote me.

Ricastle beleive she had inside information. Only one way she got inside information. Until that suspiscion is resolved it will remain. Once there is resolution to the question then all can be re-evaluated.

[Vampirate]

If part of the reason KC was scum is because she had inside info on Ric
and if Pointy is truly town
then Vamp has to be scum

There were plenty of reasons to vote KC way before Ricastle claimed, why are you signaling out just one part? The reason why the KC wagon started and really took off was because she was FoSing Ricastle and Nero for dumb reasons.

There was way more than 1 reason to lynch KC, but you are using only one of them to support your argument to vote me.

Ricastle beleive she had inside information. Only one way she got inside information. Until that suspiscion is resolved it will remain. Once there is resolution to the question then all can be re-evaluated.

If KC had inside information, why on earth did she blurt it out instead of sharing it with her teammates and keeping it secret?

Like, if Pointy and I are found to be town after death, this whole argument is going to make you, Elusive and Rubicon look real bad.


At that point, you'll go 'Oh, Vamp was right, I should've listened to him'.

[Vampirate]

Like honestly, from my view this reeks of nothing but you using that excuse to kill of everyone from the neighbourhood and the 2 people aside from Nero and RIP that were mostly connected to Ricastle.

[PointYBagelS]

Elusive, I've about had it with your terrible, terrible votes.

VOTE: elusive

I think this whole "Klingon knew too much about Ricastle" line of thinking is looking in the wrong direction. From what I can see, Klingon thought Ricastle had a weak PR, which he did not have. Obviously she wouldn't come out and say she thought he was FN since it would out a partner, but I don't think it's an unreasonable line of thinking that a softclaimed PR is weak. The nature of weak PRs makes them pretty useless once they are fully claimed.

What posts did Klingon make that seemed like she knew too much?

[Rubicon]

I'm also starting to think it's looking in the wrong direction, but for a different reason. I'm wondering if the fact she didn't really try to explain herself was because she thought it would work to her advantage (i.e., make us suspect vampirate).

Vampirate, obviously elusive is town. I can't stop you guys from mislynching her, but count me out. :)

PeaceBringer is ignoring me.

VOTE: PeaceBringer