It's the Team Mafia Tea Party (Dead Thread)

[zoraster]

I mean it's just a game and everything and I'll stop being annoyed about it by the time I finish this post, but the mod team severely fucked up by allowing GreyICE to replace in and I really hope you understand that

Why?

allowing someone who has gotten lynched to continue to contribute points to their team is unfair because it rewards poor play

additionally GreyICE had documented history with one of the players in the game that you allowed him to replace into

I don't really see how it rewards bad play. You still got lynched in one game. That's punishment enough. As to him having a history, that's normally something I'd care about in doing a game. But it's not something I can possibly hope to care about in Team Mafia. There are just too many moving parts, and I'm not going to try to step in on that.

[Metal Sonic]

The problem is the asymmetry of it. There were 13 replacements this time around.

My issue with a simple pool, and why I didn't do it that way, is one of the nice things about Team Mafia is you can pick and choose who is on your team. Forcing replacements on a team may be justified, but it removes some of that feeling.

If you didn't get to account for your teammates inactivity/didn't do your research to know that they are fantastic lurksacks/didn't pep them enough, then I think that your luxury of having a "nice thing" should be rescinded.



The "replacement pool" could be pruned/selection process so that captains don't get disadvantaged with shite choices in the pool, but you gotta work with who you get.


UT, I'm not quite sure I understand your "points for the replacement pool team!" thing, and I don't think others may understand it either. Perhaps you could articulate it in a better manner?

[Wisdom]

I don't get what is your point against the replacement system as it was, MS. What is wrong with people selecting who they want for their team?

[Untrod Tripod]

I mean it's just a game and everything and I'll stop being annoyed about it by the time I finish this post, but the mod team severely fucked up by allowing GreyICE to replace in and I really hope you understand that

Why?

allowing someone who has gotten lynched to continue to contribute points to their team is unfair because it rewards poor play

additionally GreyICE had documented history with one of the players in the game that you allowed him to replace into

I don't really see how it rewards bad play. You still got lynched in one game. That's punishment enough. As to him having a history, that's normally something I'd care about in doing a game. But it's not something I can possibly hope to care about in Team Mafia. There are just too many moving parts, and I'm not going to try to step in on that.

wow.

[Metal Sonic]

Yeah, if you have a teammate flake, your fault for having bad teammates?

GreyICE was allowed to replace into a game that I was in. I've gone out of my way to avoid him. You, zoraster, should know better than anyone why me/Grey shouldn't be in the same game since

you modded Always On

. I was then forced to deal with Grey replacing in and bringing personal shit into the game with me, and was forced to deal with that even though

I

specifically avoided him and

our team

didn't have any fucking replacements. I got boned.

Yes, I personally feel that if your teammate flakes, it's your fault for having bad teammates.

I mean, it's your captain's job to keep you motivated.


If it's a real life emergency thing that bogged down your teammate, that's unfortunate, but work with the guy next in line? Chances are that he's a cool dude so no worries.

[zoraster]

Yeah, if you have a teammate flake, your fault for having bad teammates?

I mean I understand the rationale, but my goal is to provide a competitive and whole experience for everyone. The earlier that a team checks out on Team Mafia, the worse the experience will be for everyone involved, including teams not on that team.

Plus, players and teams will just be more likely to try to dodge replacement for as long as possible, which isn't conducive to a good experience.

[Zachrulez]

i got snowballed by BBT and Regfan in white flag btw. i kept thinking both BBT and Regfan were scum and going "WTF HOW THE FUCK DOES THIS MAKE ANY SENSE", then i gave up and figured it was just Reg + CES.

i did a double take when the game ended

My plan was to lynch CES and Regfan for the remainder of the game when I was nked. (Going after CES first.)

I was annoyed when Elk got lynched on D4 instead because of the possibility of CES town... so of course he eats it in lylo.

[Wisdom]

oh yeah, forgot about the Elk lynch - another bad choice when they could have lynched reg or even ces to get it out of the way.

[Zachrulez]

In hindsight BBT was pretty obvious when I looked back after the reveal.

Stupid hindsight, it's only there after the fact.

So zor, was CES's explanation of why we ended up with nightless and Reg's team with Twin trap accurate? I'm kind of curious what happened there.

[Metal Sonic]

I don't get what is your point against the replacement system as it was, MS. What is wrong with people selecting who they want for their team?

did you think that Mollie coasting on "nacho can read me 99%! I wouldn't replace into a game with him if I were scum!" was fair to my nightless game?

I did what I could to work around her, but the fact was that Eddie was lynchbait and Mollie replacing in carries the slot to lylo conftown.


The above was just an example.


Choosing who you want to deal best with the scenario is inherently and unavoidably pro-town, and scum are disadvantaged significantly.



@ reck & UT, ABR in my game also replaced the fuck out because Mollie who he did not want to see in his game swapped in. Its part of the entire replacement process. I don't think it's right to slam the "if he is lynched, he can't replace into a teammates slot" because of that reason, though I do agree with the general sentiment

[Wisdom]

That was not a case of a team picking whoever they want, that was a case of the game swap, which is a different matter.

[zoraster]

So zor, was CES's explanation of why we ended up with nightless and Reg's team with Twin trap accurate? I'm kind of curious what happened there.

I looked back at it at the time it came up (when I was asked by Regfan), but I've since forgotten what the explanation was. I know both teams put 0 tokens in, so their choices didn't register much, but I forget the details. I'll look at it when I have some time soon (it takes me some time to reverse engineer the selection process).

[Zachrulez]

Bussing also disadvantages the scum in a nightless game Metal, particularly because it helps town get scum lynches when they'd otherwise need unanimous town support for.

[Titus]

I think a hybrid is better. Hard replace at 4 days no posting without a VLA. Take the next person off the list. Prods at two days. If the team can find someone by four days, then the game will keep moving faster and they get the player they want.

[xRECKONERx]

I don't really see how it rewards bad play. You still got lynched in one game. That's punishment enough. As to him having a history, that's normally something I'd care about in doing a game. But it's not something I can possibly hope to care about in Team Mafia. There are just too many moving parts, and I'm not going to try to step in on that.

You SHOULD care and should try to avoid it. It was also bullshit because your team cannot swap living players except D1/D2, yet GreyICE replaced in late D2 and I couldn't do anything about it unless I wanted to wait around for one of my teammates to be dead?

That's just asinine.

[Zachrulez]

So zor, was CES's explanation of why we ended up with nightless and Reg's team with Twin trap accurate? I'm kind of curious what happened there.

I looked back at it at the time it came up (when I was asked by Regfan), but I've since forgotten what the explanation was. I know both teams put 0 tokens in, so their choices didn't register much, but I forget the details. I'll look at it when I have some time soon (it takes me some time to reverse engineer the selection process).

Can we reveal our token distribution now? Not sure if you still want to keep that under wraps.

[Aneninen]

Just don't hate me for replacing in, please!
And don't hate our team because of being lucky. Everything could have gone in another way too. (FYI, and I think I'm allowed to tell: my lynch was being planned for a long time.)
And it's not over yet, there's still a game going on...

[zoraster]

go for it

[Metal Sonic]

Yeah, if you have a teammate flake, your fault for having bad teammates?

I mean I understand the rationale, but my goal is to provide a competitive and whole experience for everyone. The earlier that a team checks out on Team Mafia, the worse the experience will be for everyone involved, including teams not on that team.

Plus, players and teams will just be more likely to try to dodge replacement for as long as possible, which isn't conducive to a good experience.

Well, at least the captain/ that <bad> player can be blamed instead of the process itself.

I mean, the player's reputation will be punished if he pulls a stunt like that. That is discouragement enough.


It boils down into activity vs competitiveness. And the scum on the other side are humans too! Imagine how bad an experience they have when their lynchbaits magically appear into conftown because team captains chose super obvtown era to replace into a lurky flaker

[Zachrulez]

I don't really see how it rewards bad play. You still got lynched in one game. That's punishment enough. As to him having a history, that's normally something I'd care about in doing a game. But it's not something I can possibly hope to care about in Team Mafia. There are just too many moving parts, and I'm not going to try to step in on that.

You SHOULD care and should try to avoid it. It was also bullshit because your team cannot swap living players except D1/D2, yet GreyICE replaced in late D2 and I couldn't do anything about it unless I wanted to wait around for one of my teammates to be dead?

That's just asinine.

Not sure why there's a rule limiting the swapping of living players in the first place.

It's also not something I really care about that much either so eh.

[xRECKONERx]

I mean it's just a game and everything and I'll stop being annoyed about it by the time I finish this post, but the mod team severely fucked up by allowing GreyICE to replace in and I really hope you understand that

Why?

allowing someone who has gotten lynched to continue to contribute points to their team is unfair because it rewards poor play

additionally GreyICE had documented history with one of the players in the game that you allowed him to replace into

I don't really see how it rewards bad play. You still got lynched in one game. That's punishment enough. As to him having a history, that's normally something I'd care about in doing a game. But it's not something I can possibly hope to care about in Team Mafia. There are just too many moving parts, and I'm not going to try to step in on that.

Also: fine, don't do anything about it... but when the situation is blatantly immediately hostile (Grey's first posts were "I will lynch Reck if he gets to L-1" "Why?" "Because I fucking hate your guts, asshole") then it's time to step in and resolve it. My over the top, hostile play the remainder of that game was specifically due to the fact that you and Magua sat on your hands and did nothing about Grey immediately making things personal.

[Wisdom]

You simply cannot keep track of every single player's history and blacklists in an event with so many players involved.

[pieguyn]

i'm trying to sleep but i can't cos i keep checking this pt

that, and i'm about to break down over my game any second now

[pieguyn]

we spent all our tokens on games btw. i actually wouldn't have minded rolling scum here, especially with this player list (i wouldn't need to do anything insane in order to win if i was scum here) - but fortunately it didn't matter

[Quilford]

Hey don't worry about it Pie. You still owned that Mara lynch Day 2, that was impressive. I would have bailed when she started AtE/ flailing (like I did with ETL about ten times lol)