Mini 1687: Refraction Mafia (WINNER!)

[Lapsa]

.

[Mathdino]

@Math: Why is plotinus town?

Whooaaa holy shit guys, too many walls.

@Zoronos

: Please don't defend me at length or in case combat. Answering questions to each other is great since it helps me develop reads on you, but for the love of god the hard defending is detrimental to A. people reading the case against me, and B. me actually properly explaining myself, since you've already gotten a few facts wrong about my thought process.

I feel like I can answer cases in a sufficiently overexplained way to make my entire thought process pretty clear ANYWAY, so yeah. Just drop it.

Response to goddamn page 6 incoming.

[Mathdino]

EBWOP: No quote intended...

[Zoronos]

Thor drew me in and then I got caught up in the moment. Bad cases were bad.
I even sang a song about it.

Sorry. I probably went a little overboard.

[Mathdino]

Ugghhh I hate these kinds of posts, they feel useless and cloggy. Will try to condense as much as possible.

Well, if you understood it was directed at Tool then 'me' and 'you' become pretty clear. Leaving just the 'him/he' and last I checked Frogger hadn't attacked anyone in a way Tool had reacted to, but you had. Seemed pretty clear to me. But I still stand by my stated issue here - I don't think you're really paying attention, but I do think you wish it to appear as such.

I assumed you were talking about me and I responded as such, yeah, I just got confused later on cuz of what tool was saying and I think tool basically said you were talking about frogger instead? Idk man I just don't want to get in a half page long semantics discussion or discussion on something you weren't even talking about. Efficiency.[/quote]

What part of my quoted issue above confuses you? What part about my raised issue with your 'meta' of Frogger confuses you? I've only offered those two points against you. They *are* my case.
I'll toss in 'opportunistic voting' but that's really a slim and secondary issue to my main points and is practically the Forgger one all over again, but less clearly scummy.

Standard acknowledgement. I don't agree but I understand, just thought you might have more unstated reasons we could talk about.

1. Mathdino pushed me because my entrance post "wasn't my usual schtick"

2. Then they voted texcat because their post "looked forced"

3. Lapsa is clearly pulling a Slayer's gambit or some other type townie acts scum to see who wagons on, and I admittedly bit, but Mathdino keeps pushing this as I'll expand upon in a second

4. Dino replies to Thor with this: "Tbf I think a miscommunication between us is an objectively shitty reason for a scumread"...not any more shitty than your pushes on myself and texcat.

5. Dino then continues with his vote on Lapsa, appearing to want to almost policy lynch Lapsa: "he's dead weight and it's not like I'm voting him for his personality, I'm voting him so he gets off his ass. I'll unvote when he contributes. Otherwise you bet I'm pushing for a lynch if he can't hold up to the standards of contributing to the game."

Then plotinus brings up a good point that mathdino is voting a wagon with the person he FOS'd, and dino replies along the lines of, well, abuse is more scummy, but I'm still going to policy vote Lapsa. WTF? I persoonally would want to eliminate scum, not policy lynch someone who I have lower on my scumlist. This policy thing is BS, and clearly Lapsa is trying to suck in a scum on his wagon.

Then he actually brings up a policy lynch after CD posts. I wasn't quite sure who he was referring to, and he says guess, so I'm assuming about Lapsa. But that's idiotic. Vote your damn scum read, and have good reasons for it. I'm not going to sit here and policy lynch someone who's obviously trying to act scummy, and then turn out to be town.

1. On original push: I want to make this clear to everyone, I use meta to stop myself from voting people, not to vote people. I looked at your entrance post, said to myself, "this is scummy as fuck, but lemme check his other entrance posts real quick to make sure he doesn't ALWAYS do stuff like that". Had all your posts been like that, I would've left it alone and probably put in an announcement on what I found. Had there been no meta to look over, I'd have voted you.
Please let me know if anyone's still confused on that. Repeat: I did not vote him for meta, I voted him for a weird post and the meta was to show that I'm not voting for playstyle.

2. texcat vote: Yep. Been there done that.

3. Lapsa gambit: This isn't clear to me at all, and even if that's what he's doing, I A. know scum can fake slayer's gambits, and B. what he's doing is

still anti-town

, so fuck that.

4. Reply to Thor: ...which was a lead in to the next sentence saying "but you've probably got more reasons, so let's talk". I have enough faith in Thor as a player that he didn't base his entire read on that so I wanted to see his case. Turned out said shitty reason wasn't the major reason for his scumread at all. Cool.

5. Policy lynch: I feel as if my vote is better served here. That's it. Not going to engage in a super lengthy discussion on the merit of policy lynches (god knows I've done that too much in the past) but I feel that having Lapsa contributing to the thread is more valuable than a vote on abuse right now. Consider me on the abuse wagon if it comes down to it.
Still don't see how the associative thing matters, and I certainly replied with more than that, so don't misrep me thanks. Since my Hope Plus One game I've realised that trying to do associative tells pre-flip is really just pointless and it's best to consider people independently of each other in terms of reads.

I'm still getting the feel that this wagon is mostly founded on misreps and miscommunications with me, so again please ask me to clarify anything that didn't make sense.

ugh next posts here we come

[abuse]

@abuse: You voted Lapsa during RVS and it's still there, do you believe in the vote now? If so, why? If not, then do you find Plotinus scummy?

No, that was just a RVS vote.
UNVOTE: lapsa

I do not find plotnius scummy currently.
The reason for the previous conversation with plotinus and shinobi was to judge if they're scum or omgus'y.
I got my answer.

A Lapsa wagon on day 1 is a bad idea, considering how he usually plays. You can't judge his alignment yet. Shinobi should know this as he has played with him before. Thor has too, but that'd be a worse example, as they have had some major discussions after the game.

Both shinobi and plotnius who I was trying to check earlier seem ok overall, and to be honest I have not read the game too much, more like skimmed through.

That being said, I do not like Zoronos much. He has not even understood clearly what we even talked about with plotinus and shinobi.
Yet is quite nitpicky about it without understanding the discussion. The discussion was not even really about lapsa, it was on the situation overall.

@Math: Why is plotinus town?

Plotinus from the past (before this post) is town because the injections into the Frogger conversation seemed like a desire to contribute and reduce sensationalism over Frogger's slot in the future, which is good.

Plotinus FROM THE FUTURE is town because scum would have to be SUPER fucking ballsy to start a huge discussion about people's breadcrumbing. One thing I've realised since my newbie days is that town tends to rolefish more than scum because everyone knows it just puts a giant spotlight on you.

Shinobi is asking the right questions but I'm not getting a good read there yet. Null-town?

abuse has actually stepped into scumread from this past conversation. He seems to be doing a lot of "arguing that people are wrong" and not much of "arguing people are scum". He starts what amounts to a useless semantics debate with Shinobi and (correct me if I'm wrong) spent a page arguing that Plotinus's vote 'looks bad' and not 'scummy'.

@abuse

, what are your scumreads? What's your read on Plotinus? Shinobi? Lapsa?

I like Zoronos.

Oh yeah and people should really shut up about the useless breadcrumb discussion. It's distracting from the fact that at the end of the day, Lapsa's present in the thread and reading the thread but can't be bothered to give actual thoughts instead of responding to stuff directed at him. So I'll roll with the Lapsa wagon.

UNVOTE: texcat
VOTE: Lapsa

FoS: abuse

Edit: @BBT: JP Mafia all over again, eh? Now you know how I felt

Lapsa would just be a pressure vote, I don't have a read on him yet. Pressure votes are cool and all, but...
Abuse is actually playing scummy, imo. 67 reads super fake. Frogger's posted opinions on Platonius 2 or 3 times; it was a question already answered in the thread. Also, calling something 'interesting' as a synonym for scummy I am not down with. (He clearly was implying scummy, otherwise he wouldn't be interrogating Frogger or using a pejorative)
VOTE: Abuse

this does not strike my fancy very well.
What on earth would i argue that people are scum about so early in the game? There was not much to go off of at that point.
it is also a lie, that frogger has posted an answer to my question already 2-3 times before I asked it.
I urge you to find even 1 solid answer, because I sure as hell didn't find it.
When I call someone "interesting" I mean interesting not scummy. When I find someone scummy, I'll call them scummy.

VOTE: Zoronos
I'm comfortable with this for now, at least until I dig deeper into things on the weekdays.

[Mathdino]

Which facts does he strategically get wrong to move the scum win con forwards?

The Frogger meta - as I've said.

Beg pardon? I can see how you might not agree with what I said but I'd very much hesitate to call it wrong. I said it above but in case you skimmed that,

meta is a tool, not a weapon

. That is, it should support and not work against what I'm trying to point out. The SOLE reason I did the meta was to preemptively make sure/show that the statement "that's just his playstyle, bad reason to vote" is false.

That vote was because of a weird-ass post. Meta supports this just by saying he doesn't constantly make weird-ass posts like that. Mk?

He's not tunneling down on that read and not pressuring frogger over it. He made a bad read, you pushed him off it, he agreed that Frogger was probably town, then moved on to look for scum elsewhere. That's pretty much what I'd expect from town. His early read was bad, you showed him why, he changed his mind.

I will agree - after I called him out on it he very quickly changed targets.
This relaxes you. It does not relax me.
You will note that he has not justified how he drew the conclusion he claims to and *also* has not admitted to being wrong (which you are suggesting he did - and which I will agree, if he had done so it would have looked townish)
What he did was drop the subject and walk away like nothing happened. That is NOT what you are saying he did.

How do you think he admitted being wrong?
Can you quote it?

And this is why I don't want people stepping in defending me, pls don't ask people to do that Thor. I did NOT unvote Frogger because Thor disagreed with me, and I still don't admit to being wrong in making that initial read with the info I had. Isolated, his first post still looks scummy.

What I DID unvote him for were the 2 posts I quoted in the actual unvote post (which I'm not going to go find right now, but it's on page 3). His tool push was goodposting even though I personally disagreed with it and his talking about Plotinus and responding to texcat gave me a SUPER townish vibe, enough to propel him to 2nd highest on townlist.

7) Policy lynches are a really controversial subject. Some people really love them, some people (like me, and obviously you), don't. But that's not usually alignment indicating. Things like refusing to participate just suck to deal with. Making it not-okay to do that is a pro-fun maneuver, if not always pro-town.
Lapsa is acting anti-town. Full stop. He's not helping us find the scum, and he's not helping us get a read on him. Other than metaing "Oh, he must be doing X gambit" we have no real way to determine his alignment. If you didn't know he was gambiting, what would your read on him be?
My method to get a read on him is to coax him into participating. MadDino's (and others, and it's the more conventional way to handle it) is to threaten him into participating. But we need him participating. Pressure voting here is actually a pro-town action, as much as that sounds backwards, because it puts Lapsa into a position where he has to produce some content to help us get a read on him.

I was gonna respond to the rest of this to clear up all the misrep but I'll just sum up everything in the next post. Regardless yeah, this you actually got right about me. Vote utility. Nothin more nothin less.

Mathdino:
15 and 18 seem forced and weak. It seems like he is trying to force the game out of RVS instead of just letting it occur naturally. Which I don't mind as much if he wasn't defensive over the read 25 and then strengthens the read in 42 when I didn't find Frogger that defensive at all.

Also in 42 he makes reference to not realizing Tool was just applying pressure. The fact that it is not the first thing on his mind in this early stage means he is not coming from as towny of a perspective.

Wait... what? Literally do not understand this at all.
(On a sidenote, as of now I've been up for 30 hours, can I get a break on everyone thinking I'm always total shit at reading comp? thx)

Plotinus:
I really don't like 48. Seems really noncommittal. I mean he is one of two people you have played with and you don't feel comfortable giving a read. What are we going to wait for day 5 to hear a read on all the people you haven't played with?

What's the scum motivation? I found his contribution to be helpful. And hey, he was right, Frogger quickly obvtowned himself. Do you expect he's setting up a lynch or something?

Zoro is throwing out weak town reads like candy but each time throwing in a conditional. I don't like that looks like pocketing with a chance to revoke the town reads in the future if he is being honest about the conditional. 83, 109 Also talking to a lot of people like he knows they are town 133. Agree with the read on Abuse though. Disagree with 109 I believe when Plot first brought Frogger he was talking about everyone else being able to discern his alignment not giving his guarantee and this doesn't make sense anyways if Plot is scum and Frogger is town it is pretty easy to give a guarantee. Especially if he thinks Frogger plays like obv town like he mentioned before.

@Math Are you scum reading Lapsa? or Policy voting Lapsa?

VOTE: Plotinus

I appreciate your thoughts on Zoro and I'm inclined to read you town for it, but what I'm getting iffy about is the fact that you've just cast suspicion on 6 players and seem to have no townreads. Could you just give a quick reads list so I know where you stand?

As of reading what people are saying about Lapsa, I'm now policy voting him. The fact that he knows this is a pressure vote kinda diminishes it (thanks everyone for your love and support) but whatever, I stand by what I said. He posts one thing of value and I'm voting abuse.

[abuse]

Don't like Abuse so far. If you thought someone was a PR softing VT for some reason find another reason to defend them not spell it out to mafia. Looked like he was just trying to be busy. Entirely too focused on stuff not related to finding scum.

CB, tell me something, if I am mafia, why would I need to spell it out for mafia, they have night-talk and I could easily just tell them that there?

[Mathdino]

To those of you who don't wanna read the above wall posts:

And let's face it, who does. Just gonna list all the stuff I wanna get straight about me in one post so I don't clog up this thread with repeating and defending myself.

If you're planning on replying to the above posts to talk about me and scumreading me, please quote this post instead.

1. I did NOT vote Frogger for meta. I decided to vote him, did a meta check to make sure it wasn't a shitty "voting for playstyle" vote, and since I didn't see anything overly similar to his first post, I went and voted him. I basically only confidently use meta when I'm afraid that the guy I'm voting always does the shit he does. If not, then the meta is now irrelevant. Irrelevant to the fact that I just didn't like his post.

2. Here you can read my initial reaction to Thor. Note that I assumed it was directed at tool like a normal person would. But then tool responding with this:

Working hard to justify a gak vote, yes. That's a good way to put it. Kind of like wanting to mask any meaning behind it. Just a general vibe (weak, mind you) of being conscious of the way he looked.

Messed with my head because I couldn't tell if he was stealth scumreading me or assuming Thor was talking about Frogger. So 42 asks for clarification.
So no, my reading comprehension isn't shit, I think you guys might have just been talking about 2 different people. P'raps this is a lesson to not overuse ambiguous pronouns. :/

3. Here's me unvoting Frogger. Note (COUGH ZORO COUGH) that it was a result of 2 townish as fuck posts that overrided any previous read I had, not because people thought/think my original reason was shit.

4. texcat case isn't really the biggest thing on my mind. I'm gonna shelf it for now unless anyone has a burning desire to see me explain the specifics of this vote's reasoning.

5. The Lapsa vote was a scumread vote that evolved into a policy vote when I realised people were probably right that scum isn't this dumb. Zoro is explaining it better than I can apparently.

6.

if Abuse gets lynched while MathDino is camping on a Lapsa vote, we can hold MathDino responsible for that read. If push comes to shove and MathDino refuses to vote that read, we can hold him responsible for that too.

THIS SO MUCH.
Announcement to town: Consider me on the abuse wagon as a main quest while I go on a side quest of getting Lapsa to do something. I'll be held accountable/responsible for all the usual shit that comes with being part of the wagon and unless abuse towns it the fuck up or someone else becomes scummier, I'll vote abuse after Lapsa does something. Happy? Good.

7. And no, I give 0 shits that abuse is on the Lapsa wagon, and throughout this game if I have 2 noncongruent scumreads I probably won't give a shit then either. Show me flipped associative interactions and I'm down.

And now that this is done, back to usually scheduled program. Of not spamming the thread.

[Lapsa]

Will try read up at some point tonight.

[Plotinus]

Catching up.

@Mathdino about 125 agree preflip associations are bad. That’s not quite where I was coming from with the question but I liked your answer anyway (and I’m not sure I can explain the difference between what i meant and what you said). But in broad strokes: I was (and am) townleaning you. I noticed that the two of us were sharing a wagon with someone (abuse) we were both scumleaning. I wondered if we should be worried about what this said about the accuracy of our respective scumleans on lapsa.

As a general note, my playstyle and my pushes are still based more on “I saw an experienced player say x in a previous game and they were right and i think what they said applies here” with only a little bit of “I have personally experienced this thing”. Relying on the first has been going well for me lately, I’ll probably switch the second more as I get more experienced. Relying solely on my own feelings leads to crap like “x is being nice to me so they must be town”.

Re: Lapsa on page 6: he continues to be underwhelming. I can understand the “he can’t be this bad” arguments but if he’s known for playing like this as town, what motivation would he have as scum to change up his playstyle and start playing better? If he’s scum, he doesn’t want to make sudden playstyle changes but wants to act like he did when he was town in previous games. If this is his usual playstyle, then “as town, I do scum twilight trolling while still alive” is easy as fuck to do as scum too, especially if he knows people are going to say “oh, Lapsa’s always like that”.

I like Zoronos’ method of dealing with Lapsa too. I tend to favour that method in newbie games (the one I linked earlier is a good example), because if it’s someone’s first game then goading them into being a better player is fun and the problem is usually “can’t”, not “won’t”. I’m not going to take that approach with people who have earlier joindates than I do, though.

I need to stare at Thor’s ISO for a while. I shouldn’t be null on him after all these words. Want to try to interact with him soon but I think the Thor vs Mathdino topic isn’t what I want to interact with him about; I’m townleaning Mathdino but that’s not enough. I don’t think I am positioned to determine whether it’s a town on town push or a scum on town push and i might not even be reading mathdino correctly anyway so that’s too many assumptions.

140 from fro99er looks towny to me, though I think he’s wrong about some things (Zoronos in 146 explains everything that’s wrong with slayer’s gambit and that made me happy). Also, it has been my (admittedly limited) experience that a lot of players who are “too scummy to be scum” actually flip scum.

@CB re: 147 why is trying to move the game along and get out of RVS scummy? If he trying to move out of RVS and into the “pointless bickering about mafia theory” stage I’d agree with you but to me his post looked more like “let’s skip RVS and bickering about theory and move on to the let’s have serious reads now part here i’ll start”. Taking initiative is good.

I haven’t played with Fro99er before; I’ve spectated his games. I was townreading him correctly throughout the spectating, though. I have since started townreading him in this game. We didn’t have to wait until Day 5. It’s already here. I think he’s town. I wasn’t quite there yet on page 2 but I’m there now.

You are right that I was saying fro99er’s towniness or lack there of would be obvious to everyone, not just me. You are understanding my words correctly. Now look for motivation behind my words and what wincon those words are benefitting. Hint: it’s the wincon that wants to reduce mislynches, not keep the mislynch pool as full as possible.

You make a lot of pushes in this wall, against mathdino, me, lapsa, abuse, and zoro. I’m not really sure why you voted me at the end of it, because the parts directed at me didn’t seem stronger than the parts directed at anyone else. (huh, mathdino counted 6. now i’m wondering who i missed). Anyway, seconding the request for a readslist from you.

[Lapsa]

You are right that I was saying fro99er’s towniness or lack there of would be obvious to everyone, not just me.
You are understanding my words correctly.
Now look for motivation behind my words and what wincon those words are benefitting.

Hint: it’s the wincon that wants to reduce mislynches, not keep the mislynch pool as full as possible.

as a member with bigger join date - I command you to drop 'froggy is supertown' subject

[Fro99er]

To those of you who don't wanna read the above wall posts:

ANOTHER WALL POST BELOW!

[Fro99er]

7. And no, I give 0 shits that abuse is on the Lapsa wagon

Now that Abuse has stated he left it there from RVS, I agree with this. My apologies for pushing that angle that Plotinus originally brought up. I should have gone back and checked the reason for abuse's vote on Lapsa.

[Fro99er]

140 from fro99er looks towny to me, though I think he’s wrong about some things (Zoronos in 146 explains everything that’s wrong with slayer’s gambit and that made me happy). Also, it has been my (admittedly limited) experience that a lot of players who are “too scummy to be scum” actually flip scum.

That has not been my experience.

[Plotinus]

re: 164 in the game of mine that you spectated: skold for refusing to produce reads and active lurking, argos for doing zero scumhunting the entire game. in the game of mine that I linked that you said you skimmed, both freeko (scumreading every slot but his own) and annadog were fairly obvious (no scumhunting at all except for a lackluster attempt to help her scumbuddy out by sheeping him). in my first game house was scum and he was also pretty scummy but i think he does that as town too. mainez was the “this is my first game and i drew scum and therefore dont have any town games to imitate” type. in elemental mafia, papi bear was obvscum, the reverend for openly sk hunting on day 1 instead of mafia hunting like the rest of us. I can’t talk about the more relevant to Lapsa examples yet but I assure you they exist.

I’ll grant than in your first game that I spectated none of the scum were obvious. But you also didn’t have anyone who was obvscum-but-unfortunately-town in that game (from my perspective anyway).

[Fro99er]

I wasn't talking about my first newbie game.

[Thor665]

1) I thought that was your case against him because I quoted it back and you agreed it was your case.
My understanding of your case was that he's scummy because only scum would misunderstand who you were talking to in post 26 after you clarified in post 28. aka he's feigning confusion.
If it isn't, I really need you to help me understand the case, because I'm obviously not getting it.

2) Okay... sure. Lynch avoidance is pro-scum. But show me where he's using bad facts to push a lynch through. (which plays into the next bit)
3 & 4 & 5) Yeah, his frogger meta was dumb, because using meta is dumb. He changed his mind and admitted to being wrong in 57. Also I didn't realize my autocorrect had turned 'screw meta' into 'Smurf meta'. That's the best typo. If he were still pushing 'frogger is scum', I'd be right there with you. Absolutely no question that read was bad. But he's not tunneling it down, he's calling Frogger towny.

I get the feeling you didn't see 57 as events were occurring. I certainly can't blame you, since I super skimmed the first couple pages of stuff. (In this case, I think reading the thread in not-real-time was to my benefit, since I saw all this stuff simultaneously while reading ISO).

1. Yes - but that doesn't mean that what I'm sayin gin that case is what you say I'm saying.

I do not think he's feigning confusion - I think he's feigning reading. I have said this directly multiple times. I have *never* said the confusion was false.

2. The Frogger lynch, I have answered this question already.

3-5. Using meta may or may not be dumb, it doesn't change that it lookd like a trumped up lie moreso than a 'derp, I misunderstand meta'. I also, at the end of the day, don't care that you disagree with me between 'bad' and 'scummy' the question at this point is whether you even understand what I'm saying I mean.

I am also annoyed that you dodged my request to show me where he admitted to being wrong in the meta - as you claimed he did.
Really?
He is even now claiming you didn't understand what he was saying (and he hasn't so much claimed that at me)
I think there is a reason for that.

[Thor665]

I feel like a legit moron here because I'm staring at Thor's case going "He clearly wants me to see something else... but I don't see what that is"

What I want you to see is the stuff I'm flat out saying to you that you keep seeming to read in unusual ways and/or not read.
I feel like I'm talking at you rather than with you - as you keep repeating things even though I have claimed the exact opposite of those things in previous posts.

[Thor665]

Standard acknowledgement. I don't agree but I understand, just thought you might have more unstated reasons we could talk about.

I don't operate that way - I say what I'm on about, unless I'm a hidden Cop or something, then I'll be slightly stealthy about that and at least try to breadcrumb things even if I don't state them one shot at a time, but as far as just reads go, those will come outright in shotgun effect.

That vote was because of a weird-ass post. Meta supports this just by saying he doesn't constantly make weird-Smurf posts like that. Mk?

So he doesn't "constant;y" make weird posts?
But him making one was suspect?
Ehh...not liking you.

And this is why I don't want people stepping in defending me, pls don't ask people to do that Thor.

I did not ask - did you not notice how he leapt to your defense all on his own when he attacked Frogger's(?) vote on you?
I also did not ask him to make up stuff about you.

As of reading what people are saying about Lapsa, I'm now policy voting him. The fact that he knows this is a pressure vote kinda diminishes it (thanks everyone for your love and support) but whatever, I stand by what I said. He posts one thing of value and I'm voting abuse.

Why are you not addressing the people who have claimed this as par for the course from him?

[Aeronaut]

VC 1.2

VoteCount 1.2

Mathdino

-

Thor665, Fro99er

(L-5)

toolenduso

-

texcat

(L-6)

CB -

Cthulhu Dreaming -

Thor665 -

Shinobi -

texcat -

Plotinus

-

Cthulhu Dreaming, Shinobi, CB

(L-4)

Fro99er

-

toolenduso

(L-6)

BlueBloodedToffee -

abuse

-

Zoronos, Lapsa

(L-5)

Lapsa

-

Plotinus, Mathdino

(L-5)

Zoronos

-

abuse

(L-6)

Not Voting

-

BlueBloodedToffee

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch!

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2015-06-28 23:00:32)

Fun Fact: A "Jiffy" is the scientific name for 1/100th of a second.

[Thor665]

Why are you not addressing the people who have claimed this as par for the course from him?

@Mathdino

Also, as someone who went and researched Frogger...why didn't you research Lapsa?
Because a very mild Lapsa research quest will show multiple games where people pointed out that his playstyle was poison, and him sticking to it regardless, and him being town in the end. So...yeah.

I'm calling BS on this. If you were the sort of person to research Frogger why would you not research Lapsa? You're scum who is faking his work.

[Lapsa]

@Aeronaut vote count looks like crap with mafBlack theme

[Lapsa]

I'm calling BS on this. If you were the sort of person to research Frogger why would you not research Lapsa? You're scum who is faking his work.

yeah, dino - vote somebody else

[Aeronaut]

@Aeronaut vote count looks like crap with mafBlack theme

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