Mini 1698: MDCXCVIII [C'est fini!]

[Annarchy]

dragonspawn's townslip was probably legit

also based on this wording in the op:

Your role PM will state the following:
The name of your role.
Your alignment. Either

Town

(

#6bd7c6

) or

Mafia

(

#6b39c6

).

there's most likely only one scum faction and no sk, especially since this is a normal and the mod/review group would make sure there isn't contradicting info between the op and the setup

GrayFox, I agree with pisskop, you're tunneling. I accidentally lie by not checking my facts all the time. most of the time scum are going to lie when it's actually beneficial to them. for example, bulb's lies were scummy because they were done to save his ass - he lied about talking to Shazam to make himself look better, and he lied about his Watcher claim to make it more believable. "lies" like pisskop's aren't things scum are going to try to do, therefore aren't alignment-indicative.

I actually get a town read out of spicer's 1089, implosion. mostly his last two paragraphs. I like what he's doing so far, and I remember liking NE after feeling a little weird about him at first

spicer, got any scumreads yet?

What about it gave you a town read?

you didn't answer my question
your speculation on FA being the scum kill makes me think you're town because that's a ridiculous thing to argue imo. I feel like ignoring kill order, it's obvious who scum would have killed between FA and Shazam. Shazam was playing strong and diverted most suspicion thrown his way. FA looked scummy and didn't post much. according to the normal rules, scum couldn't have both a watcher "variant" and a role that investigates during the day, so there's no way they would know FA was a PR. there's just no reason for them to kill FA. but you making that point makes me think you're town speculating over scum trying to throw people off. scum might try to fake opinions, but I don't think they would start with setup spec, especially while under pressure

don't remember what I was thinking with the last two sentences though

[GrayFoxxxx]

Also Grey's case about pisskop lying about the whole subconscious thing is FUCKING retarded. I mean lets use a little common sense here.

He lied. For no reason. I'm sorry you guys are ok with that.
"Scum wouldnt lie like that" as his defense is weak.

[TheDominator37]

VOTE: implosion
Top scum target
If you don't know why you haven't read the thread
Not sure about my second though

[GrayFoxxxx]

dragonspawn's townslip was probably legit

also based on this wording in the op:

Your role PM will state the following:
The name of your role.
Your alignment. Either

Town

(

#6bd7c6

) or

Mafia

(

#6b39c6

).

there's most likely only one scum faction and no sk, especially since this is a normal and the mod/review group would make sure there isn't contradicting info between the op and the setup

GrayFox, I agree with pisskop, you're tunneling. I accidentally lie by not checking my facts all the time. most of the time scum are going to lie when it's actually beneficial to them.

Bulb didn't have to lie. Piss didn't have to lie. Plus the way he lied couldn't have been accidental.

You guys are saying he isn't scum because you can't see the scum motivation. Why would town lie?

[GrayFoxxxx]

Possibly a townslip, though. Obviously fakeable, etc.

Time to lynch spicer.

lol ok

In the meantime I'm pretty sure that piss isnt scum. Well for one in all the games of mafia Ive played when scum goes out kicking and screaming and says "LYNCH X PLAYER TOMORROW!"

Piss was the first person he said this about.
you fucking retard.

But sure go for KK.

[Kublai Khan]

I wanna say Boon is probably town, mostly because I think he would have been all in on the bussing Bulb business

In retrospect, I kinda agree with this.

so KK, do you think scum were in constant coordination with Bulb during his end-of-the-day antics? if so does that make you suspect any particular players of coaching him throughout this?

Well, "coaching" isn't germaine due to day chat.

But dragonspawn's Bulbazoor vote (with very little reason/explanation), unvote (after watcher claim), and re-vote (after Bulbazoor had self-voted twice) do stand out. If Bulbazoor was pushing his teammates to bus him because was a goner, dragonspawn was the most accomodating.

There's evidence that he was.

What's the evidence that Bulbazoor was coached?

Possibly a townslip, though. Obviously fakeable, etc.

Oh, fuckballs. That is the worst type of townslip. Fuck.

@dragonspawn - Did you really not read the modpost to end day 1?

[dragonspawn]

Not close enough. I saw watcher and for some reasoned missed the mafia part so I reached a bad conclusion.

And it should be obvious why I voted, unvoted, and revoted bulb.

1) we were approaching the deadline.
2) he was flailing around making questionable statements.
3) the counter wagon was fa who I was firmly town reading while bulb, even at best day 1, was null and toward the end of the day was getting worse.
4) I unvoted to consider his claim
5) I revoted when he slipped.

I don't know anything questionable about that.

[Kublai Khan]

the counter wagon was fa who I was firmly town reading

Why?

[dragonspawn]

Because I know fa fairly well. I may not be able to read him perfectly but I was feeling confident that this was his town game and the extent of the arguments against him revolved around his inability to be as active as some people wanted him to be. And looking back it may have also been from scum pushing the wagon as a counter to bulb.

[Kublai Khan]

For fuck's sake. I am looking for a reason to justify a townread on you so I can ignore you. And you are refusing to give me anything beyond a single easily fakeable townslip.

Any Johnny Mafioso can justify a read by saying bullshit like "I have a meta" and stuff like "arguments against him are bad" is not the basis for a townread.

Play the game. Open your skull and show me how you think.

[dragonspawn]

I've honestly given you my reasoning for reading bulb and fa the way I did in response to your posts. What more exactly can I do to address your concerns than to honestly respond to them? And if honestly responding to your posts doesn't make you town read me why should I care about you town reading me? I dealt with people reading me wrong before. Worse that can happen is I get lynched. My life won't end by being eliminated from the game.

So why are you looking for reasons to town read me anyway? If you think I'm scum vote for me. I can deal with it. It's part of the game.

[Kublai Khan]

Look, I don't really care about your feelings.

I have strong suspicion that you're scum. You've done stuff in this game that makes me think you're scum. I've explained those things. You're still doing things that raise red flags to me (repeated "honestly" 3 times in a paragraph? Not caring if someone parks a vote? Ugh.). But you made a towntell that, if it's complete sincere, means all that stuff means nothing and I need to move on. But the problem is that your towntell is easily fakeable. So I'm in a bad spot and I really need to figure out if I should stay on you or move on.

You can't just insist you're honest because that's meaningless. Scum would do the same thing. Instead, tell me which games you played with FA_Q2 to establish this meta. Tell me what particular aspects of his play led you to your conclusion. "He does this as town". Show me you are town instead of insisting you're town.

[pisskop]

What's the evidence that Bulbazoor was coached?

Bulbazoor was apparently trying to self-hammer, but did so when he wasn't L-1, Bulbazoor started dropping names after he did hammer, and he changed his claim from full-watcher to 1-shot.

[dragonspawn]

If you think I'm scum vote for me. This acting as though you to town read me and acting like I'm somehow dodging questions when I've addressed the ones you've raise is pointless. I have no control over what you think of me. All I cam do is answer your questions. Which I have.

[TheDominator37]

Can someone explain to me the KK wagon. I don't exactly get it

[spicer1209]

Kahn a Townslip is a townslip. Dont over think it. Im going to sound like a dick and I apologize in advance but I think Dragon is just a VI and doesnt know what he is doing.

you didn't answer my question
your speculation on FA being the scum kill makes me think you're town because that's a ridiculous thing to argue imo. I feel like ignoring kill order, it's obvious who scum would have killed between FA and Shazam. Shazam was playing strong and diverted most suspicion thrown his way. FA looked scummy and didn't post much. according to the normal rules, scum couldn't have both a watcher "variant" and a role that investigates during the day, so there's no way they would know FA was a PR. there's just no reason for them to kill FA. but you making that point makes me think you're town speculating over scum trying to throw people off. scum might try to fake opinions, but I don't think they would start with setup spec, especially while under pressure

don't remember what I was thinking with the last two sentences though

Right now my biggest scum read is Greyfox. I dont like this Piss is lying crusade he is on. It seems a little too forced and is making a mountain out of a ant hill. I also didnt like how he responded to Kahns accusation earlier in the game on post 80 . It was a vague and very weak rebuttal. It seemed as if he had a shoo fly dont bother me attitude about it. I just feel like if he was town he would have explained the better way to avoid reactions and said why his analysis was false. Pretty much all his posts are like this. A lot of statements but not a lot of explanation into those statements. To me scum never explain shit because its easy for them to fuck up that way

[Kublai Khan]

Ok, dragonspawn. Let's say i vote you and youre voting me. Is it a viable town strategy to just let our votes sit on each other and not speak to each other until deadline approaches and we move our votes somewhere else because we have no support for our wagons?

[Annarchy]

dragonspawn's townslip was probably legit

also based on this wording in the op:

Your role PM will state the following:
The name of your role.
Your alignment. Either

Town

(

#6bd7c6

) or

Mafia

(

#6b39c6

).

there's most likely only one scum faction and no sk, especially since this is a normal and the mod/review group would make sure there isn't contradicting info between the op and the setup

GrayFox, I agree with pisskop, you're tunneling. I accidentally lie by not checking my facts all the time. most of the time scum are going to lie when it's actually beneficial to them.

Bulb didn't have to lie. Piss didn't have to lie. Plus the way he lied couldn't have been accidental.

You guys are saying he isn't scum because you can't see the scum motivation. Why would town lie?

it absolutely could have been accidental, and probably was regardless of his alignment lol. tell me this: what is pisskop-scum gaining from lying here? what did lying do to help his scum cause?
like I said IN THE POST YOU QUOTED, I've accidentally lied by not checking my facts before. it's not called lying if the person didn't intend to do it - it's called a mistake. it's not a scumtell if the player lying has nothing to gain from lying.
this isn't an "oh you disagree, you do your thing I'll do mine" kind of situation. unless you can show some sort of reason for pisskop to lie like he did as scum, your read holds no weight.

I'm having trouble, I have no scumreads. I've got a few townreads, but nowhere that seems like a good place to put a vote.
spicer: I'm also starting to reconsider my read on Gray. not really seeing anything that screams scum to me, but I'm losing sight of what made him town in the first place

also, happy scumday GrayFox

[GrayFoxxxx]

Spicer is scum reading me for defending my D1 rvs vote. Lol

[dragonspawn]

I can't speak for others but I'm voting kk because:

1) he was voting and making reads similar to bulb
2) he was saying FA was the scummiest he read and then was voting for me while the FA wagon was viable and I was not. An odd choice.
3) was saying he was low hanging fruit to lynch when I didn't see anyone really pushing him at the time.

Is it a slam dunk that he is scum? No. But I feel it's. A good place for my vote at the moment.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Right now my biggest scum read is Greyfox. I dont like this Piss is lying crusade he is on. It seems a little too forced and is making a mountain out of a ant hill. I also didnt like how he responded to Kahns accusation earlier in the game on post 80 . It was a vague and very weak rebuttal. It seemed as if he had a shoo fly dont bother me attitude about it. I just feel like if he was town he would have explained the better way to avoid reactions and said why his analysis was false. Pretty much all his posts are like this. A lot of statements but not a lot of explanation into those statements. To me scum never explain shit because its easy for them to fuck up that way

I'll put this like you would.
This is fucking retarded.

[dragonspawn]

Ok, dragonspawn. Let's say i vote you and youre voting me. Is it a viable town strategy to just let our votes sit on each other and not speak to each other until deadline approaches and we move our votes somewhere else because we have no support for our wagons?

I'm quite alright leaving my vote where it is until I

A) see a better vote
B) it's time to consolidate.

Tell me something, why was me moving to bulb a bad move when you moved to me around the same time while scum reading FA who actually had a wagon going?

[GrayFoxxxx]

It seems like I pissed you off, and you can't find anything scummy about me. Lol your desperate enough to go to RVS.

I should be the most Obvtown player here according to day 1. Unless you think I would bus my scum partner from the get go. Then please find another game to play.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Sorry that I think a player lying, in a game based on deception, has a scummy agenda.

Still not voting until I study D1 a little more though.

[GrayFoxxxx]

dragonspawn's townslip was probably legit

also based on this wording in the op:

Your role PM will state the following:
The name of your role.
Your alignment. Either

Town

(

#6bd7c6

) or

Mafia

(

#6b39c6

).

there's most likely only one scum faction and no sk, especially since this is a normal and the mod/review group would make sure there isn't contradicting info between the op and the setup

GrayFox, I agree with pisskop, you're tunneling. I accidentally lie by not checking my facts all the time. most of the time scum are going to lie when it's actually beneficial to them.

Bulb didn't have to lie. Piss didn't have to lie. Plus the way he lied couldn't have been accidental.

You guys are saying he isn't scum because you can't see the scum motivation. Why would town lie?

it absolutely could have been accidental, and probably was regardless of his alignment lol. tell me this: what is pisskop-scum gaining from lying here? what did lying do to help his scum cause?
like I said IN THE POST YOU QUOTED, I've accidentally lied by not checking my facts before. it's not called lying if the person didn't intend to do it - it's called a mistake. it's not a scumtell if the player lying has nothing to gain from lying.
this isn't an "oh you disagree, you do your thing I'll do mine" kind of situation. unless you can show some sort of reason for pisskop to lie like he did as scum, your read holds no weight.

I'm having trouble, I have no scumreads. I've got a few townreads, but nowhere that seems like a good place to put a vote.
spicer: I'm also starting to reconsider my read on Gray. not really seeing anything that screams scum to me, but I'm losing sight of what made him town in the first place

also, happy scumday GrayFox

It's a tad frustrating when piss can just get away with lying twice. I see no one agrees with me so I will focus elsewhere.

Thanks for the scum day blessings