NY 187: Pariah's Mafia [/FIN]

[BlueBloodedToffee]

RC could be scum as well.

[pisskop]

Votecount 2.01

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Bulbazoor

- (2) Dragonspawn, Keysor Söze

BlueBloodedToffee

- (2) garmr, FA_Q2,

Dragonspawn

- (2) Shazam, Radiant Cowbells

Keysoe Söze

- (1) BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting:

Boonskiies, Sword Master, Aeronaut, Bulbazoor, Kop, Bellaphant, Garmr, davesaz, duppin, Kitty Galore, TheCow

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With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
Deadline is 17AUG15, (expired on 2015-08-17 12:00:00)

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll gladly vote BBT.

I've noted his habit of voting people who try to push his partners in his scum games in the past.

I'd be voting him first except so much of my case on him is predicated on DS!Scum.

There's a fairly decent chance that my vote doesn't change at all today.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells
Serious vote.

Note that, plus his massive chainsawing of all DS voters.

[RadiantCowbells]

Plus the whole PB as counterwagon with the whole scum doublevoter thing.

Yeah, no bueno indeed.

[Bellaphant]

Ugh.


BBT's case on soze, reading through his latest posts, looks like scum pushing a narrative. The points he is making seem reasonable (soze is making a lot of effort to make pro town moves rather than always scum-hunting on his own) but the way BBT is selling it looks forced. However, he picks up on the weird DS votes from Shazam and RC. (RC's looks 100% worse)

@shazam, yesterday's lynch was pretty rushed (and unexpected). I think your counter wagon theory would have more merit without the surprise double voter. Do you generally see only 2 lynch candidates d1 in a large? (genuine question - to anyone really - I replaced in and ouit of a large and that is all my large experience)

@RC, why? Dragon seems to be obv!town today.

p-edit to the above: nothing about the lynch or the nks changed your mind at all?

[RadiantCowbells]

@RC, why? Dragon seems to be obv!town today

That's basically a made up read. I can't fathom any town coming to that conclusion.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yikes this town I dying fast...

VOTE: bulbVOTE:

Barely in the game and votes for the largest wagon without any pretense of catching up. May not be a smoking gun but it doesn't look good imho

VOTE: bulb

Hate posting from the phone.

How does having a double voter mean it's a scum? Couldn't a townie have that pr too?

And how does that in any way implicate bbt? Just because he was pushing the wagon?

Seems to me that bulb would be more suspect since h specifically said he wanted to get the wagon to L1. I just don't know if the secret vote came before he joined us or not.

Then if we are going to presume this is a scum pr then bulb is the best candidate because he voted with the intent to push him to L1

Not a bad idea.

I votes for pb to put pressure. I did not like him just going full lurker and was hoping to get him to contribute so I could get a firm read one way or another.

Klingons murder makes sense If bulb is scum. Her last post is literally her saying she suspects him and will keep and eye on him.

I'll have to ISO some of the others shortly.

Also is it possible we have a mass murderer? If we did and Anna investigated one of the other two it might explain something. But I'm not sure it does.

And are we sure we only have one scum group?

Anna night kill doesn't make sense from a scum point of view. More than likely a vig if anything. She didn't add much to the game. I could easily see a vigilante thinking she was scummy.

I saw nothing obviously town about Anna. In fact if I hasn't previous experience with her I would have suspected her more.

Anna was fairly obviously town; Kling was the vig shot if there is a vig.

Mykonian was 100% the scum kill. Could be multi-ball with scum also looking for other scum and killing Anna, that should be considered.

Also why would scum kill an obvious townie if they are looking for other scum?

Were you scum reading klingon bbt?

Seems obvious why to me. Why wouldn't he?

This is everything DS has posted.

How exactly do you come to the conclusion that his today has been "obv-town"?

If anyone's obv-town it's Garmr.

[Aeronaut]

Gonna be V/LA until at least Friday. Might be able to post properly tomorrow

[Shazam]

Ugh.


BBT's case on soze, reading through his latest posts, looks like scum pushing a narrative. The points he is making seem reasonable (soze is making a lot of effort to make pro town moves rather than always scum-hunting on his own) but the way BBT is selling it looks forced. However, he picks up on the weird DS votes from Shazam and RC. (RC's looks 100% worse)

@shazam, yesterday's lynch was pretty rushed (and unexpected). I think your counter wagon theory would have more merit without the surprise double voter. Do you generally see only 2 lynch candidates d1 in a large? (genuine question - to anyone really - I replaced in and ouit of a large and that is all my large experience)

@RC, why? Dragon seems to be obv!town today.

p-edit to the above: nothing about the lynch or the nks changed your mind at all?

The surprise double voter lends more credibility to the counter wagon theory, as I explained in my last post, since it appears the double voter had a scum motivation (mostly from the fact that we had no warning and no admission). It's been a while since I played a game this large, so I can't say whether there are usually only two major lynch candidates.

[Bulbazoor]

I DID NOT VOTE BECAUSE IT WAS MY INTENTION TO HAMMER HIM. I PLANNED TO UNVOTE BEFORE SOMEONE CAME AND WHEN I RECONSIDERED MY READS BUT THAT NEVER GOT A CHANCE TO HAPPEN!!!

[Bulbazoor]

VOTE: bulbVOTE:

Barely in the game and votes for the largest wagon without any pretense of catching up. May not be a smoking gun but it doesn't look good imho

Yes, in light of the early hammer, Bulbazoor's two contributions are very scummy.

VOTE: keyserI am here.
Btw this is serious. Something seems off.

VOTE: PB
Also iffy. He needs to get to l y n c h minus one.

VOTE: Bulbazoor

" two contributions are fucking scummy" yeah right. All you want to do is frame me. But after last night, I townread you. IS IT MY FAULT IT WAS NIGHT AT THE TIME I REPLACED IN?

[Bulbazoor]

And it was not me that gave the hammer. Read.

[Bulbazoor]

That would be L-1.

Can someone state intent to hammer please?

UNVOTE: Prolapsed Brain

Can we let him respond before putting him at L-1.

" can we let him respond before l-1"
Yet wants me at l-1 without a chaance at fucking responding!?

[FA_Q2]

Oh my.

People don't like me attacking Keyser huh? That's interesting.

Did Mykonian provide my reasoning for voting Keyser or did I do it? Because if I did, your reason for voting me is no longer valid.

I'm beginning to see why I was left alive though. This is good stuff, let's get it on.

Interesting?

What is more interesting is that you are trying to twist what is actually happening. I directly stated that HOW you were attacking him is the problem. It amounts to he is posting info in order to seem town without adding anything. Not only is that garbage because the info is relevant but it also is incorrect as he is analyzing the game as well and you seem intent on ignoring that.

[Garmr]

Well I keep playing a couple of scenarios in my head.

1.dragon is town and scum don't want to push his wagon -they don't want to be at the end of it with a double vote or they couldn't because it was losing support-

2.the reason that dragon wasn't pushed to l-1 was because he is scum.

I'm personally leaning towards the second scenario but Taking both into consideration BBT looks the worse to me.

[TheCow]

Getting caught up. Sorry for this post being a wall, but I just wanted to get some of my thoughts out there, seeing as my availability has been limited some what. In any case, before I get into replying to posts which sort of caught my eye, I'm going to look at the night kills for a moment.
3 town deaths, meaning

m . m . m /// t . m . m /// 3 . m . m /// 3 . t . m /// 3 . 3 . m
Or something like this. Though, it should be noted that Annadog40 flipped [Gunsmith], a type of Town Killing role. How many Town Killing roles typically show up in a single 21 player game? I would not think there would be multiple, though I am not all that familiar with creating this sort of game, so correct me if I'm wrong.

What I'm getting at is that I think all three kills came from non-town sources. Is my reasoning here well... reasonable? If not, please correct me.

Let's look at this:

Could be some ones a double voter

I do not understand what is significant about this quote. Seeing the final vote-count I thought it was obvious that there was some form of VT manipulation, specifically double voting. PB wasn't hated after all.

This did catch my eye though. Why do you presume it is a scum PR? Couldn't it be a town double voter? One of the vote counts did have a <vote> inserted in the middle of the list.

I agree with what is later said: a Townie would have unvoted. Though, it could have been a mistake on their part, and in that case shame on them, though assuming players were playing properly, I can not see it being anything but scum.

I'll gladly vote BBT.

I've noted his habit of voting people who try to push his partners in his scum games in the past.

I'd be voting him first except so much of my case on him is predicated on DS!Scum.

There's a fairly decent chance that my vote doesn't change at all today.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells
Serious vote.

Note that, plus his massive chainsawing of all DS voters.

I can't quite recall: who exactly are those unlabeled quotes from? Thanks.

@RC, why? Dragon seems to be obv!town today

That's basically a made up read. I can't fathom any town coming to that conclusion.

What exactly are you trying to say by quoting all of his posts? We could have easily ISO'd. Is this some form of rhetoric?


Bulbazoor, you believe you are being framed? By who, exactly? In simple, clear, and concise words, if this is the case please.


I need to do some rereading now.

[FA_Q2]

Guys, if you think this extra vote is a scum PR, then surely you think it's too powerful to be unlimited uses. And if it has limited uses, why would they use it D1? The only good answer I can think of is that they wanted to make sure that one of their own did not get lynched.
VOTE: dragonspawn
This makes sense anyway. Given the pushing of the counterwagon to dragon's by so many people, it's likely scum joined in on that. BBT would be a strong possibility for a dragon partner, but I'm more confident in dragon being scum.

This line of reasoning does not really makes any sense considering dragon only reached 6 votes with 11 required. IOW, he was not even in the ballpark and I did not see his wagon going the distance. Wagons form and fall apart all the time in such a large game. Why would the scum waste such a powerful role out the gate for a player that was not close to being lynched?

[Bulbazoor]

Dragon is saying stupid stuff. If I voted on him, it was to pressure him. So stop throwing fake things and fucking fake accusations my way.

I am being framed. And being accused of nothing.

[FA_Q2]

?

As far as I know a gunsmith is a cop role.

[Bulbazoor]

VOTE: dragon

[Garmr]

@fa_q2 Dragonspawn easily had enough potential to be driven to l-1 at the rvs stage I have seen that happen before.

[TheCow]

?

As far as I know a gunsmith is a cop role.

Oh, I just checked the wiki, you're right. My mistake, I was thinking of the [Gunsmith] that could give guns to other players turning them into 1-shot vigis. My mistake, this is totally different. It also explains so much, considering where're in the "Normal" type games...

VOTE: dragon

Okay, so Dragon is framing you. Can you please find where specificlly he is framing you? If you can pull quotes where you think this is occurring, that would be really helpful

[Bulbazoor]

Dragon is acting too pushy from his town self. He thinks I am a mislynch to push, which is not going to happen.

[FA_Q2]

I don't think we can say where all three kills came from, it is not entirely uncommon in my experience for a large game to have 3 scum factions. Nor is it unlikely that there is a town aligned kill there (vig or something like it).

[TheCow]

Dragon is acting too pushy from his town self. He thinks I am a mislynch to push, which is not going to happen.

I see, interesting theory. Perhaps we should look into this. To help us find evidence, would you mind pulling up quotes from Dragonspawn to help prove this? It would really help you prove your innocence, and in the long run, maybe root out a few scum! That would be fantastic

I don't think we can say where all three kills came from, it is not entirely uncommon in my experience for a large game to have 3 scum factions. Nor is it unlikely that there is a town aligned kill there (vig or something like it).

Yes, seeing as a Town Killing role was not killed, my entire first blurb is now worthless, because anything could have caused those kills.