Newbie 1625: American Spring - Day 5 (DL - 08/31)

[Akuseru]

I know, I just wanted to give you another chance to state it. Thank you.


@Everyone else: Please role claim.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Mass claim is a bad idea.

[Akuseru]

EBWOP

If there's one, I'll take the time to look over Joram more. If not...I don't think two goons would risk being caught role fishing for a role that isn't even in the setup.

Never mind. Missed a setup. There is a possible setup with 2 goons and a cop.

oh well, guess I don't need the rest of you to mc as much anymore XD. Joram doesn't seem to have PR that would need him to log in during night, so I do wonder why he was logged in last night. How does the auto login work? Doesn't seem to work for me when I check it.

Mass claim is a bad idea.

I foolishly overlooked a setup so I now agree. If there's still a BP they should stay silent about their role XD.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, there is no chance we have a cop (due to Micc's flip)

Still, mass-claiming is bad and there is no reason to do it.

[Akuseru]

No, there is no chance we have a cop (due to Micc's flip)

That's not what I meant.

Before micc flipped, if there are two goons, they would have considered the setup with a cop.

What I was trying to achieve with the mass claim is that if we ended up with setup 1, it would confirm that there are two goons in the game. I think that would be unnecessary for two goons to fish for a role that doesn't exist in this game, therefore we could have dropped the whole "Joram was fishing for the cop". But I derped and overlooked setup B.


...sorry

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah, OK.

That makes sense.

[HenryCabotLodge]

I was originally going to vote BBT based off the fact that he spent the first half of yesterday calling bulbazoor one of his top lynch choices then opposed it as much as he could when he actually came under threat of being lynched. I also don't like how the first thing he thought to do today was prematurely defend himself from suspicion by saying somebody is trying to frame him.

The eventual point was to show that I'm town. A Micc kill sets myself up to be quick lynched because scum!BBT 100% kills Micc in that situation, no questions asked. However, scum didn't bank on Micc flipping JK and that changes everything and actually clears me instead of implicating me.

I don't think it's wise to lynch based off speculating on who Micc did or didn't jail. We're assuming something is a given that can't possibly be confirmed. If you ask me, Occam's razor would dictate that either BlueBloodedToffee or Joram is scum because they stayed off the Bulba wagon. Evidence points to Micc jailing Stubbs/Bulba on night 1 but I don't think we should assume anything beyond that.

It's not wise to speculate on who Micc did/did not jail and then you go ahead and do it anyway? What you're actually saying is 'Let's not discuss who Micc jailed N2 because that clears BBT' but we can speculate about N1 because that incriminates BBT if we believe Micc jailed my slot and there was no kill. The fact is, it's 10x easier to predict who Micc jailed N2 compared to N1.

Can you explain what evidence points to Micc jailing Stubbs/Bulba N1?

I'd lynch Henry Today. His posts are really pinging me and I'm seriously contemplating lynching him over Joram

On the Stubbs/Bulba thing I mistyped- I meant VeeGee/Bulba (got my replacements confused). The fact that there was no nightkill in night 1 points to Micc jailing scum. Bulba turned up scum and Micc pushed for his lynch for most of yesterday- I don't think that's coincidental.

It took me a little while to fully understand the implications of the revealed power role and what it means for the setup/ your innocence. In all honesty, I saw the collective agreement by the town on your being innocent and found it troubling. I didn't fully think it through when I wrote the post about how I don't think you should be cleared.

Spoiler: I'll probably be unavailable this weekend, so I'll just post my thoughts on HCL and Joram (my 2 choices for lynch)

HCL

1. HCL tends to ignore the negative comments/scum reads on him (the ones that are not directed at him but more towards everyone else)...

545

979

1011



...unless they're from Bulba

619 - Bulba mentions an HCL action (pretty light in comparison to the above links) that bugged him. HCL comments on it/explains himself (in the last paragraph of that post).




2. I never really liked his reason for voting NS (starting from day 1 and throughout day 2).

Day 1, he kept pressing that NS was pushing a stoz lynch based on stoz' activity and he considered that scummy (which I didn't agree with since NS was pushing for a lynch that wasn't his town reads and stoz had a wagon so why not? What's wrong with lynching stoz for his activity/lack of content?), he then pressed that it would make NS look bad if stoz flips towns.

Day 2 - Primary reason for voting NS is because stoz flipped town. 826 - last paragraph.

They're not terrible reasons for voting NS, but compared to those reasons, bubla was more suspicious (ie: HCL didn't like how NS was voting stoz based on activity (said it was flimsy), but he didn't comment on Bulba's reasons for voting NS: arrogance and "sheeping". With his vote on NS, HCL still stayed "objective" and called out any scummy behaviour he saw in other players (ie: 684, 709), so I don't understand why he didn't call out bubla. He rarely commented on bulba unless asked.




3. He passively complains about NS not being around to post so he (HCL) can further his case against him (His excuse for why his reasoning for voting NS is getting weaker in comparison to the developing bulba wagon)

notscience - Still scum. His absent is detrimental to my case since there's a lot of new information to go on, but I'm still comfortable with my vote on him based on what I've said already.

He get's his chance...

Oh shit he's here!

Not comfortable lynching bulba before we've had some input from notscience.

..but doesn't engage with him. NS is his top scum read, and he could have pushed/questioned him (along with BBT) but didn't. That was odd.

A couple days later HCL posts:

NS has also not posted in awhile, which hurts my case against him in light of new developments.

You've had your chance to talk to him. You could have left questions for him to answer. You decided to stop going after your top scum read. But now it's NS' fault for not acting scummy anymore? How did his inactivity hurt your case (note: the inactivity between NS' last post and the above quote)?




4.

I think it's highly doubtful that notscience is scum considering his play towards Bulbazoor yesterday.

However, near the end of day two...

OK, so you DO see them as a possible scum team then?

Yes. There are many possible scum teams at this point.

Anything is possible, this could be a protracted performance by the two of them- they were, after all, the chief defenders of Joram on day 1 and the movers in the Stoz lynch. Day 2 (without a nightkill without a nightkill on Day 1!) is not the time for such speculation, though. It's better to lynch somebody based off of their posting and what it would mean for the town, and right now I think Bulbazoor is the best player for that.

You say it's highly doubtful based on his play yesterday. However, based on his play yesterday, you said it was a possibility and even gave reasons why. Why didn't you mention it was highly doubtful yesterday when BBT asked you? Instead you pressed that NS was still scum. You didn't explicitly say they were a scum team, yet you wouldn't drop NS as scum. Either you did think they were a scum team, or you voted Bulba even though you thought he was town (a scummy town, but still town). If so, why would you vote bulba if you were town reading him?

Joram

1. Most of my points against him basically come down to him being a really bad townie. And not in the scum-trying-to-act-town-but-failing way. He's just a bad townie (consequently making him a bad scum...)

There's a lot about me in this post- I'll try to hit the highlights. I'm sorry if my level of interaction with Bulba has not made you totally confident in my townieness. I guess the fact that I had one of the most important levels of interaction with him (setting up the hammer for his lynch) doesn't sway you. Fair enough. You're right though, I did not question him directly all that much. In all honesty, I didn't have much to add to the case against Bulbazoor- he was getting pushed pretty hard by a lot of other posters (Micc in particular). For most of the day, I thought notscience was the better lynch option so I was directing more of my energies at him. Even so, Bulbazoor was still on my radar as attested to in my posts [post=#<818>]818[/post]and [post=#<819>]819[/post].

I ignore the scumreads on me when they're made in passing. Most of the ones you cited were just general reads- there's no way to respond to a general suspicion well. On the more specific charges I'm willing to explain my actions especially if I feel like I'm being misrepresented (as was the case with the post with Bulba you cited). Also, the recent post you referenced from yourself didn't seem like an accusation so much as musing on play- I didn't take it as a serious charge.

As far as not questioning notscience, what was I supposed to question him on? He made a post saying what he thought of the developments since he had been gone. He likes to respond to questions by saying he's already answered them anyway. The reason I said his inactivity hurt my case is because when he came back, Bulbazoor was starting to look like the better lynch option to me. I was realizing it was silly to leave my vote on somebody who hadn't posted in days when Bulbazoor had been prolifically scummy.

Regarding my "reversal" on an NS/Bulba scum team I'll say what I said yesterday: anything is possible. It's an incredibly remote possibility but it's still a possibility. Having a few days in the night phase allowed me to reassess my reads in the game and I guess I've softened up on notscience a bit.

[JoramvanVugt]

EBWOP

If there's one, I'll take the time to look over Joram more. If not...I don't think two goons would risk being caught role fishing for a role that isn't even in the setup.

Never mind. Missed a setup. There is a possible setup with 2 goons and a cop.

oh well, guess I don't need the rest of you to mc as much anymore XD. Joram doesn't seem to have PR that would need him to log in during night, so I do wonder why he was logged in last night. How does the auto login work? Doesn't seem to work for me when I check it.

Mass claim is a bad idea.

I foolishly overlooked a setup so I now agree. If there's still a BP they should stay silent about their role XD.

Last night i logged in to say that my internet was dead, i managed to get online after trying for like 20 hours (might have been 2 days ago). Im from europe so timezones might be messing that up a bit. right now its almost 1AM here

[Akuseru]

Last night i logged in to say that my internet was dead, i managed to get online after trying for like 20 hours (might have been 2 days ago). Im from europe so timezones might be messing that up a bit. right now its almost 1AM here

When I said "last night", I was referring to the night phase. Why did you log onto the site during N2?

[JoramvanVugt]

btw when i posted^ this was his time:
Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:42 pm

I was on holiday for the past 2 weeks. so long days. most of the time i went to bed around 1AM and checked the thread before i went to bed. I wanted to post that the internet went down and it would be impossible for me to continue to play untill i got back home (which i am now). When i watched the thread i saw it was locked. so i read through the last posts and saw we lynched bulba. thats why. Since when is logging in to this site while its night time in 1 game scum behavior. i guess multiple people logged in during the night but everyone keeps looking at me.

[JoramvanVugt]

I like the post at the start of today Thespio, i really dont trust you at all. you keep pushing my lynch. you have been the entire game. you ignore the posts in which i explain myself and now im susp cause im on holiday. seems legit. should be lynch Aku cause he is not gonna be available this weekend? same thing right.

Jorams absence seems suspicious. Havent you read my like 5 messages about being on holiday for 2 weeks and that i wont be able to respond quickly?

For people saying i asked about a cop. I still dont know how many setups are available in newbie games. when i started i thought every newbie game had the same setup and a cop was always in the game.
I stopped when i heard it wasnt true but some other people kept talking about the setups day 1. still im the only one being looked at for talking about a cop.

[JoramvanVugt]

Thespio you joined the wagon and your only argument is my absence which i have a perfectly fine multiple times stated reason for.

[JoramvanVugt]

I kinda agree on the NS not being scum. I read Bulba as town and NS as scum while its the other way around. I agree with BBT on this. them being scum together seems highly unlikely

[JoramvanVugt]

BBT how are you as close to confirmed town as you can get? You have votes on you and people question you all the time and still you say you are almost confirmed town? how?

[Akuseru]

Since when is logging in to this site while its night time in 1 game scum behavior.

It isn't. I still wanted you to address it, though. I personally won't be using it against you.

[JoramvanVugt]

OMG, it was him, lol look @ his last time signed in. He would have to send Night action right? so if he was online durring the night and not posting then 1, wtf? what are you doing logged in but doing nothing? VOTE: Joram I also saw jorams cop request as a way to out the cop that he believe lived.

btw when i posted^ this was his time:
Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:42 pm

Since when is logging in to this site while its night time in 1 game scum behavior.

It isn't. I still wanted you to address it, though. I personally won't be using it against you.

[JoramvanVugt]

I logged in to send a night action is what thespio is saying but i did not post cause well its hard when the thread is locked...
Like i said before. HOLIDAY, im not online multiple times a day, i checked once every 24/48 hours. When i got here the thread was locked.

The lynch changed quickly in 24 hours maybe abit longer. i still had my vote on NS and nobody wanted to hammer and everyone moved to Bulba. saying im scum cause i didnt switch my vote to him is so stupid. I wasnt online once during the time we switched the vote.

[Akuseru]

The fact that there was no nightkill in night 1 points to Micc jailing scum. Bulba turned up scum and Micc pushed for his lynch for most of yesterday- I don't think that's coincidental.

I don't agree. It's more likely that there was no night kill N1 because Micc protected whoever was targeted or scum hit bp townie. Why would micc try and jail scum N1? There are two of them, and only 1 puts in the kill. To pull it off, Micc would have had to successfully choose scum + it would have had to been the one who placed the kill. If Micc did happen to go for scum that night, why Veegee/Bulba of all people. He wasn't high on Micc's scum list.

I had one of the most important levels of interaction with him (setting up the hammer for his lynch)

True, but you know what else that looks like?

or most of the day, I thought notscience was the better lynch option so I was directing more of my energies at him. Even so, Bulbazoor was still on my radar as attested to in my posts 818and 819.

Doesn't mean much to me. I don't think you would have said all that if I hadn't been questioning you about bulba and his actions right before. If you had ignored bubla after that, you would have started to look suspicious.

[Akuseru]

On the more specific charges I'm willing to explain my actions especially if I feel like I'm being misrepresented (as was the case with the post with Bulba you cited).

How is BBT's post about you much different from Bulba's post about you. Both say you're town but then add a scummy point that bugs them:

Henry have been pretty

obviously town

for a while (though I'm not sure I liked Henry switching to the Bulba wagon now that Bulba has flipped scum).

That looks like bussing

.

Vs

HCL is town.

The whole " bws create reactions" was a good idea and we should use it today to get reactions from people like stubbs and maybe espio. I also liked how he comes up with things that benefit us as a whole town, not any antitown things that scum tend to say or come up with.

What might rub me the wrong way, is the vote on my slot for saying hi. Maybe he did not know about site mechanics and random voting stage.

You didn't feel misrepresented when BBT mentioned your possible bussing?

[Akuseru]

As far as not questioning notscience, what was I supposed to question him on? He made a post saying what he thought of the developments since he had been gone. He likes to respond to questions by saying he's already answered them anyway.

I'm sorry, and it's probably me, but I guess I can't give you a pass on that. Those aren't good reasons. At the time you were in favour of an NS lynch over Bulba. Didn't you want get more info/better read so you could stay with your vote?

I was realizing it was silly to leave my vote on somebody who hadn't posted in days when Bulbazoor had been prolifically scummy.

Yes, you realized that it would be silly for a townie to leave their vote on somebody who hasn't posted in days when bulbazoor had been prolifically sucmmy. What you say could be true, but I hope you understand that it could also be viewed as scum who couldn't continue ignoring their partners wagon without looking scummy.

Regarding my "reversal" on an NS/Bulba scum team I'll say what I said yesterday: anything is possible. It's an incredibly remote possibility but it's still a possibility. Having a few days in the night phase allowed me to reassess my reads in the game and I guess I've softened up on notscience a bit.

Why is NS unlikely to be scum?




Sorry for triple posting, but I didn't like how it all looked in a single post

[Thespio]

I like the post at the start of today Thespio, i really dont trust you at all. you keep pushing my lynch. you have been the entire game. you ignore the posts in which i explain myself and now im susp cause im on holiday. seems legit. should be lynch Aku cause he is not gonna be available this weekend? same thing right.

Jorams absence seems suspicious. Havent you read my like 5 messages about being on holiday for 2 weeks and that i wont be able to respond quickly?

For people saying i asked about a cop. I still dont know how many setups are available in newbie games. when i started i thought every newbie game had the same setup and a cop was always in the game.
I stopped when i heard it wasnt true but some other people kept talking about the setups day 1. still im the only one being looked at for talking about a cop.

This isnt at all why I voted you, logic dictates that you may be scum.
-If scum has a RB they know there may be a cop.
-You asked to be copped.
-If cop condemns you then scum can kill cop. If there is none you now know there is a jailor instead of a doc that prevented you N1 Kill.

do you understand atleast where we are coming from?

You logging in @ night is suspisious but I know you were unavailable so im not holding it against you either.
UNVOTE: Joram

I'm Taking a look at HCL, aku makes some good points

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 3.2

Irresistable

Donald Trump made one shockingly insightful comment during the first GOP debate

vox.com

JoramvanVugt

(2): BlueBloodedToffee, Akuseru

Not Voting

(4): JoramvanVugt, HenryCabotLodge, Thespio, notscience

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch

Deadline: August 20, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2015-08-20 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[notscience]

I could ultimately go for either of them, I need time to think which won;t come for a few days.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hmm, I'm not sure on Joram. I initially believed it to be him through PoE but I kind of like his recent posting and I think Henry could actually be scum here.

NS, who would you prefer and why?

UNVOTE:

[JoramvanVugt]

Okay so can someone help me figure out how the setups work in newbie games.

How many setups are possible and how many are still possible for this game at the moment with 1 confirmed goon and Jailkeeper