WiFom City: Don't Trust Titus - GAME OVER

[Banana Frog]

Please stop telling me to fuck off

[The Blue Blur]

Please stop saying Grat is obvscum while voting singer

[Banana Frog]

VOTE: Honey Bee

Now let's discuss the game state for a bit while this honey bee wagon stalls because scum don't want to be on it.

[The Blue Blur]

Ok, what do you got?

[Banana Frog]

Sala, you do remember I flipped on ZZZX in that game and helped get the lynch through, so it's not like I didn't know what I was doing. Only on day two when you started screaming about bins is when I tuned you out.

[Banana Frog]

I have to leave. I'll give you what I got when I get back.

[Banana Frog]

At least when you're screaming about scum, I know you're town

[singersigner]

Okay, so I am 99% confident that Graticious is scum!

If Graticious is scum, then singer started a counterwagon on Drizzx, or Frog started a counterwagon on singer. I don't think all three of them are town, or even two of them.

There is no wagon on singer other than me. And I'm moving back to Grat as stated. I just want town to discuss singer a bit because she is dangerous as scum. The best way to accomplish that was with an attention grabbing vote.

I know town isn't going for singer today/now so that's why I'm going to go with Grat, who is my second strongest scum read. Singer is my strongest. But of course she'd use this as a way to scum read me now, like there can't be more than one scum. I was fully aware of that going in when I took that stance but w/e

Way to discredit why I would even be scum reading you at this point. I didn't actually believe you were scum but I gave you the opportunity to figure out why I'm obviously not but you're refusing to do so...why? If you really believed I was scum you'd give town something to discuss instead of throwing out a blind accusation.

I get it, you're threatened by my scum game because I fooled you that one time but as scum you'd be equally threatened by my town game you know enough about by now.

Guess what you sound like here.

I'll give you one more time to read between the lines and figure out why I'm not scum.

[The Blue Blur]

because you're the SK, thats why you aren't scum

i've never seen singer this limp and woozy

~sonic

[pisskop]

Ive browsed portions of Singers meta, and I'm still 70%/30% on them being scum. Their town game is remarkably similar to their scum game in terms of the level of content and the depth of analysis they do, but I certainly can feel the scum in the latter and they do have a tendency to backsass where it isnt neccessary when scum as opposed to a blunt and frank production as town.

[pisskop]

Why are we not lynching any of our scumreads instead of Grat? What makes him priority again?

[The Blue Blur]

he is the top priority scumread.

[TriforceP]

Correction: he is YOUR top priority scum read. Obviously they aren't everyone's.

[Drizzx]

Singer; you have serious issues with logic.

My role compelled me to jail and kill someone on night one, unless someone could stop my role. Since night one is (presumably) the night where it would be most likely for me to choose a townie (reads in absence of known information are pretty shaky without someone seriously hard slipping), just by sheer odds. So yes, I viewed a role whose most likely outcome was to kill a townie, without me having any choice about whether or not to do the kill, as negative utility.

The

rest

of the role has fantastic utility since I can now jail someone AND neighborize them AND protect them from kills, at the expense of them being jailed and their abilities not working. That's great. Had someone been able to keep me from trying to use my kill (which was compulsive night one only), then I would now be all that plus be a vigilante.

Your argument that me viewing my role as almost certain to result in a town death as being a negative thing making me scummy is just absurd. Who would view a high probability of killing a townie, compulsively and without choice in the matter, as positive utility in a town role? I didn't even have the choice to just not jail someone to avoid the itchy trigger finger, because I'm compulsive and if I don't choose someone to jail, then the mod will choose someone randomly for me.

As for why we chose Grib/Constantine, I'm afraid that's a question ZZZX has to answer. I didn't submit the choice and I had no conversation with ZZZX about it.

But please, stop with the absurd anti-logic. Being forced to almost certainly kill a member of your own faction, based just on the odds, is absolutely a negative and brings negative utility to the role. Since it is otherwise super overpowered (and if we live and manage to be widely townread, the people we jail will look super suspicious if they don't engage with us, so we can even up the utility if we can play well enough that it's super obvious we're town) and high utility, it makes sense there was a downside. I'm not sure whether someone doctored the Grib/Constantine slot or if someone did something to us (but if we were roleblocked, why did the jailkeep/neighborize part happen?), but however it happened, I'm glad we didn't kill Constantine ... unless he's scum in which case I won't be glad.

Given that he keeps trying to misrepresent the QT, even though I paraphrased all 13 posts and never contradicted myself, contrary to his claims, it may be worth wondering why he's making shit up when what was said in the QT has been fully paraphrased and shown to everyone. Given that I'm town, and I believed he was going to die, and I believed his bulletproof claim was bullshit (and he admitted that it was), I had every reason to expect him to die, and therefore my oQTimal play was to engage him and ask him to infodump so I could relay to the town, presuming he flipped town. Since he claimed in thread and immediately claimed to me in the QT, I'm not precisely sure why he thinks I was fishing for information ... he had already given me his info. His entire response and actions throughout just don't pass the sniff test.

I will try and invest the energy to figure out why some people are convinced that some person is obvscum. Maybe someone could like ... make a concise case? All I see is a lot of "He's scum, we're lynching him today. You will do as I say. How dare you try and use the day phase to figure out anything else." type bullshit, and that's not really very townie (Even if he's the lynch, there's a lot we can do with a day besides decide whom to lynch). It's also not very convincing.

Love,
Drixx

[singersigner]

because you're the SK, thats why you aren't scum

i've never seen singer this limp and woozy

~sonic

You can't insult me into believing in something I'm not. I'm actually really good at this game and I think I'm right so I'm not going to allow people to convince me otherwise anymore. I'm fucking tired of provin myself only for people to continue not taking me seriously.

You've never resulted to insulting me before so what exactly are you trying to do here? Change my mind about you? Your sheer insistence that I'm the SK might mean you're not mafia (I would even reconsider a couple of y associative scum reads in that case) but actually the SK yourself. Either way you're scum and I've done my job.

[Banana Frog]

Way to discredit why I would even be scum reading you at this point. I didn't actually believe you were scum but I gave you the opportunity to figure out why I'm obviously not but you're refusing to do so...why?

If you really believed I was scum you'd give town something to discuss instead of throwing out a blind accusation.

Why do you say that? So because I've not made a case yet, I'm scummy?

I get it, you're threatened by my scum game because I fooled you that one time but as scum you'd be equally threatened by my town game you know enough about by now.

Congrats...you fooled me well, yes. If I was scum and it was your town game I was afraid of, I'd have a night kill would use it on you, because I know how super awesome you've been lately. Everyone knows. But you're just not displaying it here or you would have actually cared about which wagon you hopped on between Grat and Kling, but you didn't. You'd be hard pushing and complaining about how town never listens to you and stuff. But you didn't...so it makes me think one of two things, and I know what you want me to read between the lines for...so I guess it could be that. But I'm just not feeling it. I think you'd be a bit more helpful in the situation where there was a double wagon at least on giving some town input, but nope.

Pedit: then make your case back on Drizzx and maybe I'll start to believe what you want me to read between the lines for.

[singersigner]

I already explained that I disagreed with the way Drizzx used their role and I think claiming it the way they did got a lot of town cred early on with the potential of drawing another important

town

role. How many other

town aligned

RBs or JKs did they really expect to be in this game (and be balanced) yet they still solicited "help" from a role they themselves had. I think they're willfully not acknlowdging that it was essentially a one-shot vig yet they keep acting like it's all about the numbers and statistically likely they'll be hitting town when with such a large game...who cares! JK your biggest scum read, or the person people can't figure out, or a lurker. And I know this wasn't originally part of my issue, but don't even get me started about "it wasn't my choice!" Because whoooooley shit that hydra dissonance.

Also, I almost never care about D1 wagons. I'm very vocal about getting rid of useless town utility. Did you even read anything I linked to Oversoul? KC flipped town which womp womp but he would've been left alive for mislynch bait later so I don't even feel a little bit bad about getting rid of one of the biggest question marks in the game. It's actually exactly that same reason that I

don't

feel comfortable with a Grat lynch/wagon now. People like TBB keep trying to manhandle it into fruition but of course they would!

Also, also, cases are meh, that's not what I was expecting/looking for, but you claim to have wanted town to discuss me while not giving them anything but a read to discuss. I just think anyone who's wrong has a greater chance of being scum, but your response only left it open for people to do the work for you instead of being transparent and letting people decide on their own. Telling the town to "discuss" only subconsciously plants the idea that I'm scum before they even know what they're looking for (well for less tenured players at least), which is, yes, scummy.

[Banana Frog]

you claim to have wanted town to discuss me while not giving them anything but a read to discuss.

I did want to. But I had to run out to chicken and waffles.

[singersigner]

-_-

Well then, by all means...

[Banana Frog]

I will after the indycar race

[singersigner]

I hope you realize that doesn't negate the issue. You didn't even offer it originally as something you really wanted to follow up on.

But whatever. I got the second wind I needed. When people are ready to vote TBB I'll be ready.

[Flubbernugget]

How about a counterwagon wagon?

Vote: Gratuitous

Town post.

Idgi

[Flubbernugget]

Page 79

VOTE: honey bee hope I hammered

[Titus]

Vc here later.

Prods going out tonight. They'll be weaker ones BC I didn't send out day start.

VC Added 9/30/15

Drizxx - St. Constantine the Hermit
Honeybee - The Blue Blur, St Constantine the Hermit, Mastina, TriForceP, Firebringer, Atum, Banana Frog, Flubbernugget
Hermit - Drizzx
Atum - Quoth the Pidgeon
Drizzx - singersigner

[LittleGumball]

When people are ready to vote TBB I'll be ready.

I think this is what has tipped me over the edge into thinking "yes singer could possibly be scum with gratuitous replacement"

Vote: Honeybee