In post 346, Ether wrote:My gut is currently screaming to high heaven that it's Sakura, and that if that's true then goodmorning is her most likely partner. It's getting distracting.
Parts of it are! Sakura's been bugging me for a lot longer than you have. The OceanWind thing was always the tip of a much bigger, frustratingly vague iceberg.
I'm going to try to pinpoint my feelings later, but I only have about half an hour right now and I might not answer in that timeframe.
As I move my vote
Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder and
Sorry for the inactivity guys. I am feeling like there are people here who need to post more before I can get solid reads on them and as long as they don't, I don't have much to add.
GM is starting to concern me now. I feel like her scumreads are the easy reads-meaning mislynch bait if one or both of LoHa and lordj are town. She's handing out easy townreads to Sakura based on weak meta which she has said before she doesn't like to use unless it's recent stuff she's had recent experience with. Then she null's me who is also someone she's played in several games with including a recent town game-she scumread me hard there and a scum game-she townread me hard there.
I also don't like how she immediately questioned lordj on her town read on me and told her effort is not indicative of alignment. It's like she's trying to lead her into NOT townreading me because I notice she only questioned that and made an issue out of it. I get this strong feeling she's setting me up to take a fall in this game.
Think about it. Say one of her scumreads gets lynched and flips town. She is null reading me and discrediting someone who is expressed a townread on me and discredited the read as well. If I'm null to her, why is that a problem?
So I feel like she's setting me up for the next person to scumread if one of her scumreads flips town because I've been more than null this game and there is no reason I can't be leaning one way or the other for her right now, especially considering our very recent experience with each other. I can see the scum motivated plan in action much more than I can see town motivation in her overall gameplay right now.
This has been a concern of mine for awhile and I haven't been able to express it properly until I worked it out in my brain some but yep, this is what I feel is going on because if I was thinking about how I'd handle GM as scum in this game, I'd likely do something similar to deal with her familiarity with me.
VOTE: GM
Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.
In post 354, SilverWolf wrote:Sorry for the inactivity guys. I am feeling like there are people here who need to post more before I can get solid reads on them and as long as they don't, I don't have much to add.
GM is starting to concern me now. I feel like her scumreads are the easy reads-meaning mislynch bait if one or both of LoHa and lordj are town. She's handing out easy townreads to Sakura based on weak meta which she has said before she doesn't like to use unless it's recent stuff she's had recent experience with. Then she null's me who is also someone she's played in several games with including a recent town game-she scumread me hard there and a scum game-she townread me hard there.
I also don't like how she immediately questioned lordj on her town read on me and told her effort is not indicative of alignment. It's like she's trying to lead her into NOT townreading me because I notice she only questioned that and made an issue out of it. I get this strong feeling she's setting me up to take a fall in this game.
Think about it. Say one of her scumreads gets lynched and flips town. She is null reading me and discrediting someone who is expressed a townread on me and discredited the read as well. If I'm null to her, why is that a problem?
So I feel like she's setting me up for the next person to scumread if one of her scumreads flips town because I've been more than null this game and there is no reason I can't be leaning one way or the other for her right now, especially considering our very recent experience with each other. I can see the scum motivated plan in action much more than I can see town motivation in her overall gameplay right now.
This has been a concern of mine for awhile and I haven't been able to express it properly until I worked it out in my brain some but yep, this is what I feel is going on because if I was thinking about how I'd handle GM as scum in this game, I'd likely do something similar to deal with her familiarity with me.
The fact that almost everyone is null-reading Sakura bothers me in itself. I know that Sakura traditionally gets scumread as town, and skates by as scum. The only other person who's claimed some kind of suspicion toward her thinks she's unemotional, which is (of course) a really dumb reason to scumread someone, but also in Sakura's case suggests to me that something is very wrong. (And she's already agreed just before this post that she's out of character here, so yeah.)
Her read on OceanWind bothers me
so much.
Three different people asked him that dumb RQS question, because the ritual is the same every time, and his answer was the same one you get every time. SHE LITERALLY SAID THAT that's the reason almost everyone gives. If she townread him for that answer on Page 10, then that strains my ability to believe any of her reads are real.
And up until this page, that's been like the only read she's volunteered without prompting at any point since her Page 1 goodmorning vote, and soooooooort of the LoHa vote. (EDIT: Actually no, her 207 lists SilverWolf as town. I don't really have any objections to this post. I still think this isn't enough, but I'm putting it in.) And the whole thing around when I first voted LoHa gave me a bad vibe too. For convenience's sake I'm going to quote the exchange under the cut, but you can start late on Page 4 and read it all in context if you prefer.
ps as well Ether whatts ur reasoning behind putting the joke vote (im assumeing) on LoHa and 2 if its not a joke vote whats the reasoning behind putting her at L-2
Basically everything about this is reactive on her part, or just useless. When lordj asks me about my vote, her 98 is pretty much a nonreaction--it's making no attempt to improve her read on lordj or LoHa or me, it's just slapping lordj down on easy theory that any SE could give. I had to drag the fact that she had a weak townread on LoHa out of her, and she didn't seem to care at all that I just voted him. I don't mind that she didn't notice that I'd already typed a case on LoHa, exactly, but if that was something she actually wanted, then why did I have to "Hi!" her first?
And this is the vibe I get from practically everything she's done. I don't think she's terribly interested in looking for scum.
(I would like her goodmorning vote if I hadn't just declared concern for a her/goodmorning scumteam, which kind of kills it.)
As for goodmorning...that's a lot more recent, and a lot of it is kind of associative. But at some point it started bugging me that, even in full "don't worry you can read goodmorning later" mode, absolutely
nothing she did whatsoever
stood out to me. I do think it makes no sense at all that she'd put Sakura at the top of her townlist for some innocuous post she made on Page 1, and yeah, her treatment of SilverWolf, who went so far as to meta-dive her, does look pretty inconsistent to me. (With that said, I didn't know that she already has a history of misreading SilverWolf. Could both of you elaborate on that?)
Mightymandarin's gonna need another prod. His third will get him replaced.
As I move my vote
Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder and
You're right that i have barely been bothering developing most reads, but that's more of me being mostly disinterested than being scum, i even missed the part where GM actually townread me because of meta (I'm using a different playstyle this game, there's no way she'd get a meta townread on me unless she knows my alignment and is using it as an excuse)
What would you describe my playstyle since apparently you've bothered noticing that im usually scumread as town and townread as scum?
Would you think my playstyle this game fits either of those metas? I'd say No, so that was a rethorical question.
(Although if anything i'd think i'd fit my scum meta more which is the most awkward thing that i've been trying to emulate in my towngame to see if i can stop being ML'd, which again... clashes with GM's meta read of me anyway)
I do really want to play this game, but honestly I'm afraid to post because I keep second guessing any case I begin to make against someone. I just know I'm bad at this game and don't know how to build a decent argument against someone, but I'm trying to LEARN. I wish I could just play in a game without experienced people to be honest. It seems like most of the people here are pretty experienced with mafia. I won't complain about that anymore though, I want to see this game through at least until my time is up.
Here are my reads who I'm more and less suspicious of, I don't have a bunch of quotes to back me up but I HAVE read this thread 5+ times over but just haven't been posting, my bad.
More likely scum: Ether
Sakura
Silverwolf
All too perfectly distanced from each other and as soon as I mention Ether and Sakura in one of my 3 posts in the entire thread Ether makes this big case against her.
And Ether, yea you're clearly a proficient and prolific mafia poster, have clearly played quite a bit and are good at arguing, but I don't buy your tone in this game. Nothing personal against you, but in this game I don't like you.
Silverwolf again, too perfectly distanced from the other two. Also seems like she's playing the newbie card when she has 300+ pages of posts.
How do I search someone's post-history for just this thread?
NULL: lordj210 - basically a wildcard because like me his posts have been a lot of noise without much content. I guess I'm at fault for that too, but what're ya gonna do.
LoHa - His posting style could work either way. I went and read the newbie-guide and it said in more newbieish games scum don't need to be so aggressive because town just tear each other apart. But since most people here are really experienced, he would just be painting a target on himself.
Town: Everyone else. I think Ocean's posts were really good and even if he flipped scum I wouldn't mind if he killed me at night. I actually like the big effort-posts with really well thought out arguments, but I just don't have the attention span to really write all that myself. Sorry. Good night.
At the bottom of each page there is a dropdown menu ("Display posts by user:") with the names of everyone that has posted in this thread. Cllick on a name, press Go, and you have all their posts in one place. (Using the + sign next to that dropdown will also allow you to iso
I don't want to clearly spell out what I do and don't expect from your play, sorry. I could be missing things and I'm not claiming to be the high authority on the subject. The people who've actually played with you probably have better; SilverWolf's advice would be nice to have.
But aside from that, your response was literally "Yeah, you're right, I've barely been scumhunting and my play is closer to my scumgame." I don't really know what you want from me!
This all does reflect badly on goodmorning, so there's that.
As I move my vote
Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder and
Might Mandarin-Please point out where I've played the newbie card this game? There is no way I've done that. Explain.
Yeah, in NY180-GM read me as town when I was scum. In NY188-she scumread me and I was town. We played together in another game where we were both town but I was already an outed mason and confirmed town after my partner died.
As a side note, she replaced in in all these games. I don't know if this plays into her not being able to read me this game or not.
More from me after work today.
Also, as a side note, anyone that puts the 4th vote down on someone needs to declare L-1. This is one vote away from lynch. If someone wants to cast a 5th vote, declare intent to hammer-hammer vote is the final vote to lynch and give that player a chance to post and claim. This is super important!!
I'm not saying we are going to do that now or should, but this needs to be said sooner rather than later.
Ether-I don't have much experience with Sakura.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.
Unless you can convince me that your nonchalance regarding argumentation for reads is true my vote stands. I for one don't think it's healthy for town to accept 'gut' and the like as valid reasoning so I don't think you're town atm.
