Trouble in The Cougar's Den (Game over!)


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Post Post #825 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:53 pm

Post by Teridax »

In post 550, DeasVail wrote:Firebringer (5): PeregrineV, HerryPanther, Performer, pisskop, Reasonably Rational
HerryPanther (1): TheWayItEnds
MonkeyMan576 (2): Nobody Special, Vedith
PeregrineV (1): MonkeyMan576
Performer (6): Heartless, BotLane, Cephrir, Kthxbye, Spiffeh, Maxous
Reasonably Rational (2): davesaz, Firebringer
Spiffeh (1): MattP
PV is probably town. HerryPanther is nulltown. Performer scum, pisskop and RR both scum candidates.
TWIE is nulltown, really not paying much attention to him, though. NS I haven't bothered reforming an opinion on, Vedith I'm increasingly more seeing as scum. Monkeyman ditto, maybe town. Dave and Firebringer both probtown. Matt's a meh-not-really-gonna-try read.

Heartless is town.

When it comes to BotLane, I hate all their posting, from both heads even, but their scumreads are weirdly attuned to my own for the most part. And, traditionally, that is a STRONG indicator of Ankamius being town. So at least up to null. Maybe even town, pending further reflection. (I'm so gonna kick myself if I just talked my way out of a correct scumread. :facepalm:)

Ceph probtown, though not strong read.

Kthx probscum, with Spiffeh as null.

Basic rundown right now.
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Post Post #826 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:56 pm

Post by Teridax »

In post 559, Maxous wrote:
In post 550, DeasVail wrote:
VOTE COUNT

Firebringer (5): PeregrineV, HerryPanther, Performer, pisskop, Reasonably Rational
Performer (6): Heartless, BotLane, Cephrir, Kthxbye, Spiffeh, Maxous
With the exception of HP, that is actually a rather scummy wagon on Firebringer.
I don't have a problem with anybody on the Performer wagon
THIS is probably why Maxous died.
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Post Post #827 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:01 pm

Post by pisskop »

im going to restate my assertion that this catch up crap is bad.

asso inserting peoples names into posts it to make them look scummy is bad.

Since I dont know who thia head is and theyre doing that obnoxious as shit catchup-post-by-post and I may have uneesolved feelings for mastin this should be roped with extreme iritation
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Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #828 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:02 pm

Post by LicketyQuickety »

@mastin2, I'd like to ask a favor. Can you describe why I am town? Like besides wogonomics?
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Post Post #829 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:07 pm

Post by MattP »

In post 827, pisskop wrote:im going to restate my assertion that this catch up crap is bad.

asso inserting peoples names into posts it to make them look scummy is bad.

Since I dont know who thia head is and theyre doing that obnoxious as shit catchup-post-by-post and I may have uneesolved feelings for mastin this should be roped with extreme iritation

It's mastin

Glad to know you're town pisskop
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Post Post #830 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:15 pm

Post by Teridax »

In post 562, Vedith wrote:But yeah I can see what you are saying. However, PV looks good town for me...
Originally I thought that Performer could have just been trying to push another wagon to get off his (an obvious null tell)... However, there were more productive wagons going then.
The vote as well is questioning the wagon and voting him in the same post.
He also tries to push Ika as scummy and when no one takes the bait, he changes his tune... A bit like this;

Opportunist accusation to Ika
People disagree
Town lean but scummy townbloc tactic for Ika
Town lean Ika
That's really testing the waters, I mean, he even has his trunks and goggles on for that.
UNVOTE: Monkey
VOTE: Performer
Really think this turnaround from Vedith is a bus, though.
I'm pretty sure I was having a herpderp moment when having doubts about Vedith. He's scum.
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Post Post #831 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:16 pm

Post by Heartless »

In post 827, pisskop wrote:im going to restate my assertion that this catch up crap is bad.

asso inserting peoples names into posts it to make them look scummy is bad.

Since I dont know who thia head is and theyre doing that obnoxious as shit catchup-post-by-post and I may have uneesolved feelings for mastin this should be roped with extreme iritation

...

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Post Post #832 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:18 pm

Post by Teridax »

In post 828, LicketyQuickety wrote:@mastin2, I'd like to ask a favor. Can you describe why I am town? Like besides wogonomics?
I dunno, just seems right? I suppose that'd be what most people would call gut, but it's really not. (You know what I mean. At least I think you do.)

I look at you. I think, "town". Instant reaction.
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Post Post #833 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:32 pm

Post by MattP »

I don't admittedly like how adbest Vedith has been from the game since his wagon formed
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Post Post #834 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:32 pm

Post by MattP »

absent*
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Post Post #835 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:16 pm

Post by Teridax »

Rereading Ceph's D2 posting, that slight townread?
Only reason it's not much stronger is because Ceph's Ceph.
It aint slight anymore, though.

Also, Vedith's even stronger scum.
I still think {Kthx, RR, Vedith, pisskop} has a fair amount of scum in it. Approximately two--maybe one more, definitely at least one.
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Post Post #836 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:17 pm

Post by Teridax »

(I should be getting a proper readslist going. Just give me a bit to finish rereading the game.)
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Post Post #837 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:20 pm

Post by MattP »

There's a 70% chance that any 4 players contain at least 1 scum
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Post Post #838 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:21 pm

Post by Teridax »

In post 729, MattP wrote:I actually am thinking about it and am second-guessing a vedith push right now for a reason I don't really think is productive to expand on
Pretty sure we saw the exact same thing, Matt, but I think we were wrong. Evidence against it outweighs evidence for it.
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Post Post #839 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:37 pm

Post by LicketyQuickety »

What are people's meta on mastin? I'd like to say Town just for being so firm in there reads, but then I remember reading a couple of things that were said elsewhere on the forum. The two things I am considering right now is that CDB said Self Awareness + Time = Results and mastin has a gob of both.

TL;DR: I prolly wont be providing any sort of read on mastin2 any time soon.
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Post Post #840 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:46 pm

Post by Heartless »

lickety


Spoiler: click here
In post 822, Heartless wrote:
In post 809, LicketyQuickety wrote:I'm going to do this as well because I sorta feel like I am the weakest link in this game so its going to take more work for me to get anything. I'll share my thoughts on this when I'm done.

let's tie up a few loose ends mr poopybutthole:

In post 723, LicketyQuickety wrote:Since Ika is dead, why kill him? IIRC, some people were saying they soft claimed 3p. This needs to be looked at to see if that person(s) would NK them.

ok.... from the time you came in you've been hyperfocused on the ika kill and ignoring the maxous kill and i'm kind of wondering why.

In post 738, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 737, Reasonably Rational wrote:You're smarter than that Mastin. It was one thing when kthxbye didn't wonder who Performer was the counterwagon away from, but
you
not knowing isn't like you.


I'm not getting this. What's wrong with what mastin2 has said? Further more, how are you gunna say what someone is and is not capable of? It comes off as pretty OMGUS if you ask me.

ugh, i hate this post

one, what are you criticizing here, and two, are you insinuating omgus is a scumtell or what and if not why did you make this point?


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Post Post #841 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:49 pm

Post by Teridax »

So.
-Heartless is town. The only reason, and I do mean the ONLY reason, to call them scum would be paranoia of, "They're a better scum player than people give them credit for!" And to that idea, I say, "fuck that". They're town. Period. End of discussion. No paranoia. No second-guessing. None. Nadda. Whatsoever. Rock. Read never changing, no matter what, I will override any player claiming to the contrary to the point where if someone claimed a cop guilty on them I'd lynch the cop claim. Top tier of top tier town.

-Cephrir is town. The only reason he's not top-tier town is unlike Heartless who I refuse to cave in to paranoia about, Ceph has SUCH a strong scumgame that, yes, I respect it enough to hold a
little
paranoia. But a healthy caution of not blindly trusting him. Otherwise, I've got no interest in lynching him. It'd take a cop guilty for that. His play is just town.
-Firebringer is town. While I don't put much stock in townslips, I happen to believe Firebringer is town anyway. The BipolarChemist wagon was awful, BPC looked town to me, and Firebringer's posting is pretty similar to Wifom City I'd say, so all signs point positively to Firebringer being town.
-NS didn't really do much (I got a read, but I forgot what it was), but when I look at LickedyQuickety, I just think "town". There's things here and there that vaguely support it, I suppose, but I just get this overwhelming
feeling
about the slot being town.

-dave is a decent townread. It's nothing really much, just general posting which is fairly townish in overall, well, everything. Nothing in particular, just town-looking in look and feel.
-PV I'm thinking pretty decently is town. He might even be above dave, but he's definitely on that level of townness.
-TheWayItEnds is at the same level as HerryPanther, pretty much, except with more posting from him. It's just his posting has done less. I feel he's more likely to be town than not, but I don't actually have that much a read nor do I care to.
-HerryPanther is an okay townread, but they really haven't done much yet. I happen to think they're more likely to be town than not, but there's nothing strong about the read, just a general feeling.

-MattP right now is hovering at nulltown. There's not really much making me like him, but there's nothing making me really dislike him, either. I think the things he's focusing on indicate he might be town, but I'm not sure.
-Monkeyman is at the same level of nulltown. Normally, there's a very strong derp-Monkey presence that lets you know he's town. Haven't really seen much of that, which is a bit concerning, though I did pick up hints of it. (Just hints--they could be just-derp-Monkey, rather than Monkey's distinctive town-derp. Thus, nulltown.)

-Spiffeh is hovering at the nullline, because while there's some potential indicators of being town, I caught a red flag which could mean scum. Overall pretty much not making an impact yet one way or another, though if I had to take a guess I'd say town.
-BotLane is a weird case. Post-wise, I hate everything I'm reading from them. Positioning-wise, I dislike their wagoning pattern very, very much. But reads-wise, BotLane's reads--while not perfectly reflecting my own--are pretty dang close to my reads. If not in the now, then in the then. So they're null, pending further sorting.

-Reasonably Rational is not exactly a weak scumread, but not a middle-strength scumread either. I happen to think that this feels different from the RR I've come to expect, and analytically, they look bad. But I'm not even remotely close to certain about this.
-Kthxbye is a decent scumread of mine. I've hated everything he's done so far, from the analysis to his buddying of BotLane to his reversal on them today to his positioning on the Performer wagon, basically, everything. Why only decent? Because I know I have a historically-established bias towards scumreading him his alignment regardless, so this could be me just repeating history. Otherwise, the read would be much stronger.
-pisskop looks bad analysis-wise, and while I'm not certain, I
think
this is his scum meta. I'm sorry that I can't tell you for certain; I lack the number of games needed to be sure, but the way pisskop's handling the game feels more like his scum meta than his townplay. So that nets him a middle-strength scumread.

-Vedith is a very strong scumread. While I caught hint of something that made me pause, ultimately, I don't think it's true, thus, there's nothing town to redeem him. Bad posting, bad interactions with Performer, basically, just scum.
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Post Post #842 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:52 pm

Post by pisskop »

Mastin. poor thing. I have 50 games to choose from, 20% of them scumgames.
youd best do better than that and explain why you conciously altered a post to include me.
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #843 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:54 pm

Post by MattP »

In post 839, LicketyQuickety wrote:What are people's meta on mastin? I'd like to say Town just for being so firm in there reads

Mastin does it regardless of alignment.

I'm not an expert on Mastin, but I don't like his play here compared to his town play.
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Post Post #844 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:56 pm

Post by pisskop »

ive never seen mastin be confscum before. why is this play different?
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #845 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:59 pm

Post by Teridax »

In post 839, LicketyQuickety wrote:What are people's meta on mastin?
Number one rule about metaing mastina is that it's a bad idea to meta mastina. :P

Seriously, never goes well. Gets me townread when I'm scum (because I know how to manipulate my meta better than almost any player on the site), gets me scumread when I'm town (because people assume my towngame is static when I'm the player with one of THE most erratic towngames ever where it's different to such a degree as to be unrecognizable).

Best way to read me is to look at what I'm doing. If I'm manipulating others, then lynch me. If I'm not (important tangent: working with others != manipulating others; I can be fighting a person and still have it be manipulation, e.g. Inorganic Chemistry, just as I can buddy a person and not be manipulating them), then I'm town. It doesn't matter what form the "not" is in. Not playing. Not scumhunting/having reads. Not working with others. Not having good reads. Not having logic. Not having a lack of logic.

If manipulation is absent, I'm town. If it's present, then I'm scum. (Important tangent number two: exception--emotional manipulation. I REFUSE to manipulate off of emotions as scum off of principle; I consider it a despicable tactic, both to fake emotions on my end and to abuse the emotions of others to my ends. That crosses a line I simply won't cross. As town, I won't intentionally manipulate emotions, but can do so accidentally. So emotional manipulation is null, or nulltown depending on your viewpoint, but I call it null.)
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Post Post #846 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:03 pm

Post by pisskop »

In post 820, pisskop wrote:
In post 819, Teridax wrote:
In post 408, Kthxbye wrote:BipolarChemist (6): PeregrineV, HerryPanther, Performer, Maxous, Kthxbye, pisskop
Looks pretty bad for Kthx.
Also not great for pisskop.

what are you pulling here?

In post 842, pisskop wrote:Mastin. poor thing. I have 50 games to choose from, 20% of them scumgames.
youd best do better than that and explain why you conciously altered a post to include me.

@mastin
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #847 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:03 pm

Post by Teridax »

In post 843, MattP wrote:I'm not an expert on Mastin, but I don't like [HER] play here compared to [HER] town play.
Bluntly, Matt, you don't know me worth a damn. Never did. Certainly don't now, after I've continued playing games and you've not been in them.

This IS my townplay now. Through and through.
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Post Post #848 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:04 pm

Post by pisskop »

youre literally giving me an excuse to troll instead of read. why did you alter 408?
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #849 (ISO) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:05 pm

Post by LicketyQuickety »

Didn't want to answer this simply because it requires me to give my thought process that, lets face it, is hit or miss in a big way. + it takes a lot of effort to be actually honest about this stuff rather than just theory-crafting my answers to something that is a reasonable explanation. So if I give poop, you've been warned.

In post 822, Heartless wrote:
In post 809, LicketyQuickety wrote:I'm going to do this as well because I sorta feel like I am the weakest link in this game so its going to take more work for me to get anything. I'll share my thoughts on this when I'm done.

let's tie up a few loose ends mr poopybutthole:

In post 723, LicketyQuickety wrote:Since Ika is dead, why kill him? IIRC, some people were saying they soft claimed 3p. This needs to be looked at to see if that person(s) would NK them.

ok.... from the time you came in you've been hyperfocused on the ika kill and ignoring the maxous kill and i'm kind of wondering why.


Ok, I'll be honest here. While I read Maxus as a mix of Town or Scum depending on the readthrough I ended up trying to figure out why they were NK and just came up with a blank. The thing is, they were not really on my radar at all and it took sometime to put the puzzle together that they were actually the other person who was NKed. Also, I just was more interested in Ika since they seemed to be more of a sparkly player and did things that I have no idea why they would get NKed. I was actually surprised when I realized that Ika was a NK because of the hammer. I'm a little slow this game; I should have paid more attention to who got NKed and everything but all in all I generally just try to catch Scum without having to worry about the WIFOM of who would NK who, but Ika was just an interesting character - enough to take interest in why they were NKed.

In post 822, Heartless wrote:
In post 738, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 737, Reasonably Rational wrote:You're smarter than that Mastin. It was one thing when kthxbye didn't wonder who Performer was the counterwagon away from, but
you
not knowing isn't like you.


I'm not getting this. What's wrong with what mastin2 has said? Further more, how are you gunna say what someone is and is not capable of? It comes off as pretty OMGUS if you ask me.

ugh, i hate this post

one, what are you criticizing here, and two, are you insinuating omgus is a scumtell or what and if not why did you make this point?


IDK honestly. I guess I was just seeing them as Scum and was looking for a reaction? Not sure why I said it since I don't think it necessarily is alignment indicative, but I will say that OMGUS CAN be indicative of alignment. I was reading it as a Scummy reaction and I commented on that.
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