Secret Alt Mafia 2 – Game over!

[the_soothsayer]

it's easier to believe that cellphone was just that bad now that we know it was nobody special

Don't disagree that NS is a terrible player in general, that said I'm actually more confident that the slots scum given the alt knowledge.

Vote: CellPhone

[Quailford LOL]

Don't disagree that NS is a terrible player in general, that said I'm actually more confident that the slots scum given the alt knowledge.

I want to believe you, can you explain this?

[the_soothsayer]

I want to believe you, can you explain this?

No, do your own work.

Sure, it's largely meta based. Take a browse through his games, you'll notice as town he's generally more active (he's still not what I'd call massively active but there's a difference in activity most certainly), there's a thought process that's follow-able throughout his posts and that his tone for the most part is rather relaxed, as scum on the other hand he's more inclined to lurk and his posts are generally very mechanical (this is the strongest difference I noticed when looking at his meta) which fits this game here to the tee. You'll see what I'm talking about if you glance through his the ISO's of Uncouth Mafia, Started in (Town), Mini 1639, Started In (Town), NY180, Replaced In (Town), Newbie 1652, Replaced In Early Game (Town), Newbie 1622, Replaced In (Town) in comparison to Open 549, Started (Scum), Micro 359, Started, (Scum) and Newbie 1643, Replaced In (Scum)

[Greatvalue]

Don't disagree that NS is a terrible player in general, that said I'm actually more confident that the slots scum given the alt knowledge.

I want to believe you, can you explain this?

More later, but for now this just rubs me the wrong way.

[Quailford LOL]

I want to believe you, can you explain this?

No, do your own work.

Sure, it's largely meta based. Take a browse through his games, you'll notice as town he's generally more active (he's still not what I'd call massively active but there's a difference in activity most certainly), there's a thought process that's follow-able throughout his posts and that his tone for the most part is rather relaxed, as scum on the other hand he's more inclined to lurk and his posts are generally very mechanical (this is the strongest difference I noticed when looking at his meta) which fits this game here to the tee. You'll see what I'm talking about if you glance through his the ISO's of Uncouth Mafia, Started in (Town), Mini 1639, Started In (Town), NY180, Replaced In (Town), Newbie 1652, Replaced In Early Game (Town), Newbie 1622, Replaced In (Town) in comparison to Open 549, Started (Scum), Micro 359, Started, (Scum) and Newbie 1643, Replaced In (Scum)

I like this.

VOTE: CellPhony

[Quailford LOL]

BTW, for posterity's sake, I'll mention that I am pretty sure that Shiba was a vig kill, which means that the scum kill was probably somehow interrupted.

[You are dead to me]

vote: Cellphone

Should have happened fucking yesterday until ~someone~ decided it was a very smart play to not post for nearly ten days and show his valuable butt a few hours before deadline and pushed for a Cellphone lynch in a scummy as fuck manner.

Can't push GV until D4 though because I'm not voting anyone else until Cellphone and Phantom are both dead, and it still could be NA or Megafan with them.

[You are dead to me]

Soothsayer, explain the town thought process here:

Allows him to connect it to me further, and on a more flimsy note his constant reference to the slot as if it's still Dimitri falls more in line with a scumpartner mindset.

How is referring to the slot as Dmitri scummy?

I think it's merely you trying to explain a colossal fuck up as town

Yeah... I find myself continuing to revert to this thought. It's really depressing but it makes the most sense in my experience with people who play town like this.

I'm quite glad then that I don't play town by posting a couple of times in the beginning and showing up again at deadline with no reads, nothing and get depressed by people actually playing the game.

[You are dead to me]

Soothsayer, explain the town thought process here:

Allows him to connect it to me further, and on a more flimsy note his constant reference to the slot as if it's still Dimitri falls more in line with a scumpartner mindset.

How is referring to the slot as Dmitri scummy?

To explain what I'm talking about, this was posted after the hammer and I think it exists solely to display GreatValue's "townslipping" by not knowing that Dmitri was town where he is shown to be creating paranoid theories about Dmitri's partners.

If GV is scum, his plan all along was to bait me into voting Dmitri and he'd have almost gotten away with it if I hadn't realized it now. Baiting someone else into voting by pushing the opposing lynch works well because GV can be pushing the "right" lynch while someone else takes the fallback for voting Dmitri.

[Concorde]

VOTE: Cellphone aka Joey Tribbiani

After this flips scum, we should reevaluate Shady and Dipsy.

[Joey Tribbiani]

How you doin'.

I read up over the night.

1) How many years of mafia experience do you have on your main account? (Less than 1 year, 1-2 years, 2-3 years, 3+ years)
2) What are your thoughts about the balance of this game, given the reviewers (Faraday and chamber) and the mod (Quilford). Do you have mod meta?

This is a very weak attempt to do things. I don't like the setup fishing before anyone has even posted.

Nobody even answer, please.

What was the point of working against Shiba rather than trying to get a grasp of Shiba's alignment off of that post? Or say why you shouldn't be answering? I cannot say I disagree with not answering, however this is incredibly vague.

snip

This post has me split down two separate trains of thought. My initial thoughts lead in the direction of town, for trying to stimulate discussion. But on a second read, he's not actually

trying

to get a bearing on who he is talking to, he's just congratulating them on moving towards useful discussion. So, in all, he's contributing a huge post that amounts to answering the pointless questions that are ultimately useless at this point in the game.

snip

Really? I'm in an entirely different ballpark, I find his needless assertions of being town and condemning those who question him unnerving. I think the overly verbose nature of his posts gives off a vibe of trying to accomplish things while overall accomplish very little other than getting an understanding of his game theory.

Also I'm townreading Greatvalue

For?

Not afraid to his vote being viewed as OMGUS as a pretty good early indicator of town.

Why is this something that would even remotely be on someone's radar as scum? OMGUS is a weak tell, and is used as a joke in most settings. I can't remember the last time I saw someone legitimately use OMGUS as a tell to push towards someone's lynch outside of RVS.

It looks like you saw a controversial stance to take and wanted to take it, and found the quickest way to substantiate it.

Currently, I have townreads on Greatvalue and Dimitri. Scumreads on YouAreDeadToMe and Natural Aristocracy.

You are townreading those who townread GreatValue and scumreading those who aren't. I don't really think this game is as black and white as people townreading the same people you are townreading, and this one dimensional thought process is distressingly shallow.'

I've already established myself in an active town role.

Happy with my vote.

People townreading GreatValue: don't read his posts at face value. Read between the lines.

Dimitri Davidoff: welcome to my scumpile. Great Value, meet Dimitri. Dimitri, meet Great Value.

Tags fixed. ~Quil

Meanwhile, at the batcave...

Yadtm's definitely identified my primary issue with greatvalue's posts, that they look just fine at a solitary glance, but upon secondary reevaluation they do not hold up in the slightest.

It would greatly help your win condition more if you were to be more articulate in explaining your stances and reasoning behind your reads.

This is newbtown.

Do you really think this? Why would this be the game any newbie is drawn to?

Looking back, I can definitely see this train of thought, especially given the way his reads have been falling, however I still find myself questioning why a newbie picks out an anonymous game.

Vote Dimitri

Dead boy's a good vote, too. Both are scum. Don't know about Aristocrat. I'll wait for him to insult me a bit before a make up my mind.

This is the first time all game we've seen someone stance themselves around people on both sides of the argument being scum, and that is definitely more town-thinking. Scum could easily jump in and pick a side, but picking one from each side shows town actually trying to get an understanding of the other players.

73

I find the last part of this post (the part pertaining to the scumread of Shiba) to be town. Noticing that discrepancy between the ruleset and the perceived notion of being newbtown leads to more of the in-depth thought that comes with the town alignment.

That being said, it looks like he was preparing to vote yadtm with the last line and then his vote on Shiba seems unexplained, and being left to implication bothers me.

84

Why did you instantly jump to discredit the read? I got a townread based solely off of that post, does that mean that read is invalid?

108

This claim takes a lot of cojones to come from scum. My primary question why they didn't out it in their first post, however upon reevaluation I could make out the thought process of attempting to draw a nightkill by being one of the more evidently town players, and to have been initially responded to with a scumread shook that gameplan.

144

This confirms my initial analysis, and I'm definitely on board with gumby being town, because I very severely doubt scum thought of a contingency such as this.

snip

I can understand quailford, but what is bothering you about gwen? I also don't have any qualms with referring to posts as artificial, as there is such a thing as being too over the top in the attempt to mask one's identity where it can become attempting to mask one's alignment. For instance, I find myself refraining from using phrases I have so often fallen back on, in favor of a more verbose and meticulous vocabulary. While yes,, it will probably sound remotely artificial, it is not to the point where Dimitri is.

Reads time

Town
Concorde
You are Dead to Me
Natural Aristocracy
Shiba




soothsayer



Scum
GreatValue
Dmitri
megafan
Quailford

Slot Gumby and Spider-Gwen into the town pool, and remove soothsayer altogether and this pool very closely mirrors my own, which in turn lends itself positively to what your alignment is.

Dipsy is scum taking a very surface skim approach looking for things to attack. He's not looking at intent. At all. Totally whitewashing the point that even though this game is full of alts, the "old ways" of scumhunting still apply and are perhaps the purest. Dimitri is not coming off as artificial because he's an alt. He's coming off artificial because he's scum having to fake everything he says and does. There's an extra barrier there, and you notice it in his posting. It doesn't feel natural.

Also lol on the thought that everybody pushing Gumby must be scum. It's never that simple, and rarely true. That looks very much like a white knight of Gumby, which is the only thing that really puts a dent in my scum read there.

I, more often than not, am finding myself agreeing with the thoughts Spider-Gwen is putting down.

I just wish I had the conviction you do, is all. Makes me curious if you're seeing something you haven't shared (you keep alluding to this, I don't think you ever dropped the bomb on it) or if you're just playing it up.

I like the attempt to get a better understanding of why dead is pushing this wagon, as scum, NA could just as easily sit on the blanket townread from earlier.

There's something dissonant about your posts. For instance with Shiba, I could tell easily that he was newb-town. With you, on the one hand your case on Dipsy suggests you played mafia for quite a while, and on the other hand, you keep talking about things like trying to move votes off of a wagon that's never going to go to lynch anyways like it actually matters that a couple of people are voting me which suggests not understanding how wagons work and looks like you are trying to kiss up to me.

And what does this lead you to think of her alignment?

227

Another post that has me split down two roads. One being the nonchalance regarding how others perceived him as scummy, claiming it to be, essentially, a reaction test, is questionable at best. Almost asking as an attempt to move past already garnered reads. However, I can see why town would want to get some of this information and scum being this forthcoming about attempting to garner information that would pertain towards the success or lack thereof for gambits could simply hide the elaboration in the PT.

I was also tempted to post like Wake.
Thanks for the update.

I think everyone in this game had to come to some consensus on who to mimic as to best cover their alts.

Something to note, I have a townread on Shiba as of page 12, but cannot ascertain the exact reasonings behind it. One thing that is jumping out at me is the way he was townreading all the major wagons- the odds that we had yet to wagon a scum at this point is pretty negligible. The attempt to start a quail wagon also felt good, because I find myself questioning the lack of one. As of 299, I would definitely find myself voting quail.

My readup is done as of post 14, I will likely continue reading coming into tomorrow. I definitely want to investigate the wagons that are evident at the end of the day, however, because I know I am town and kumquat flipped town means there is something very wrong going on here. I haven't gotten to any kumquat posts yet so I don't really know where the wagon is coming from, though.

[You are dead to me]

YESSSS! Scum caught. When I click on a post, it says I'm not authorized to read the topic. Links back to the scum PT no doubt.

[You are dead to me]

For those still in the dark:

Code: Select all

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7333960#p7333960]post 885 [/url], Joey Tribbiani"]
[post=#7293524]73[/post]

I find the last part of this post (the part pertaining to the scumread of Shiba) to be town. Noticing that discrepancy between the ruleset and the perceived notion of being newbtown leads to more of the in-depth thought that comes with the town alignment.

That being said, it looks like he was preparing to vote yadtm with the last line and then his vote on Shiba seems unexplained, and being left to implication bothers me.

 [post=#7293524]84[/post]

Why did you instantly jump to discredit the read? I got a townread based solely off of that post, does that mean that  read is invalid?

[post=#7293524]108[/post]

This claim takes a lot of cojones to come from scum. My primary question why they didn't out it in their first post, however upon reevaluation I could make out the thought process of attempting to draw a nightkill by being one of the more evidently town players, and to have been initially responded to with a scumread shook that gameplan.

[post=#7293524]144[/post]
[/quote]

When you type:

Code: Select all

[post]74[/post]

for instance and click preview, the code changes it to something like this:

Code: Select all

[post=#7293524]74[/post]

so the actual post refers to the seventy fourth post in that thread which is given a unique post number across the board. So, he typed it all up in the scum PT and clicked preview thus changing all the post numbers to refer to ones in that Private Topic. When he quoted it again and copy-pasted it here, the unique post tags still referred to the scum PT posts.

[Gumby]

Ouch :/ looks like you composed that in your Scum PT before posting.

It's a scumslip. It happens.

VOTE: Joey Tribbiani

PEdit ninja'd

[You are dead to me]

Eh, wish I hadn't done that. Would have been nice to make him catch up to all 36 pages but whatever.

[Gumby]

Nah, it would've been just harsh to make them keep posting and catching up after they've already been caught.

[You are dead to me]

Quail is town. Could definitely find himself voting Quail isn't partner to partner interaction.

[Gumby]

Isn't it? "Could find myself voting X" is the best way to make it seem like you're suspicious of someone but not have to follow through because you said "could find myself".

[You are dead to me]

Scum wouldn't show hesitancy in voting a partner. It looked like he wanted an excuse to vote Quail but is a little scared to push him hard and wants someone else leading that push. I dunno, I could see it as a potential out to bus later but it looks a lot more like careful treading the water around a townie.

[Concorde]

I concur. Quail is town but your reason is wrong Dead.

I would have wanted to hold that as well. We would have had proof of the counter wagon likely being town.

[Concorde]

There's a remote chance of one other thing meaning Joey town but that will have to come from someone else.

Given the 99.9% Joey scum, we can infer an active scumchat.

[Gumby]

There's a remote chance of one other thing meaning Joey town but that will have to come from someone else.

Given the 99.9% Joey scum, we can infer an active scumchat.

Or potentially he composed it overnight. That would explain why he was posting there in the first place.

[You are dead to me]

1. Cellphone (Joey Tribbiani)
2. Phantom of the Opera
3. One of Megafan, Natural Aristocracy, or Great Value

Game solved.

Unless we have another scum.

[Concorde]

Gumby, Joey have to have an active chat for Joey to consider posting their first. There must be at least 1 active chat member with Joey.

Phantom's not scum for reasons I said yesterday.

1. Cellphone
2. GreatValue
3. Shady or Megafan

[Greatvalue]

I'm town, because CellPhone and Quailford are scum. Get over it.