Mini 1729 - History Mafia II END

[Sir Bastion]

I mean montana's vote was bad for someone who hasn't caught up to jump on the leading wagon but did it need you telling us all your role?

I did a loooong time ago..

I have to deal with children..Then the adults can't think for themselves.. You guys are supposed to be good at this..I'm VTDo what you want.. :/

Which begs the question.. Are you just skimming?

So you did.

Well oops that was my bad I should have pushed on that ages ago, which is shame maybe we might have avoided the wall of BC and MS if I did.

issue still stands, why did you claim pre-emptively. Even then you were not on L-1 back then.

Are you skimming, Bastion? *lenny face*

*Dr Hibbert laugh* (reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbyEuLX5oyQ)

I try not to but some posts do have me glaze over and note to go back and reread.

though the earlier VT claim was something I sorely missed and kicking myself as it may require me rereading some changes in attitude post the claim.

[Dwlee99]

Nuu not the hibberrrttt

[Scorpious]

*Dr Hibbert laugh* (reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbyEuLX5oyQ)

I really hate that you have to reference your Simpsons reference.. oh well.. such is life

[Dwlee99]

Respond to 1013 scorpious

[Sir Bastion]

*Dr Hibbert laugh* (reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbyEuLX5oyQ)

I really hate that you have to reference your Simpsons reference.. oh well.. such is life

any excuse to watch 10 hours of simpsons

[Scorpious]

Respond to 1013 scorpious

what is the question?

you cant just make general statements and then expect people to comment on all of them..

[Sir Bastion]

how about mine.

why did you claim VT without being at L-1 why did you feel you needed to do it at L-3 (I think)

[Scorpious]

how about mine.

why did you claim VT without being at L-1 why did you feel you needed to do it at L-3 (I think)

frustration, and truth..

I get annoyed,when people stop listening because it doesn't match what they are thinking..

[TonyMontana]

Nice.. you come back just to vote a Vanilla townie.. Great play..

You leaning on your unprovoked VT claim doesn't seem like a great play either, to be fair.

[Scorpious]

Nice.. you come back just to vote a Vanilla townie.. Great play..

You leaning on your unprovoked VT claim doesn't seem like a great play either, to be fair.

mentioned it twice,how is that "leaning" on a claim?

you want to actually read the game and stop just responding to the last 3 pages?

what are your reads on others? Am I your only scum read?

[Dwlee99]

Respond to 1013 scorpious

what is the question?

you cant just make general statements and then expect people to comment on all of them..

Well, you voted for me because I did not vote bastion and I refuted that and you don't unvote or try to counterpoint you just ask where KT went.

[BeardedCat]

Hey guys, I'm back.

dealing with mom in hospital

I'm really sorry to hear this. I wish that things go as well as they can for your family.

i think scorpious has somthing against me for some reson. I mean i only said the thing about lurking beacuse it has been the general idea. I understand something poped up thats fine but whats not fine if you just snaping at me for somthing half the game has openly said.you know Scourpious i'm starting to take these things personally and if this keeps up i will make sure your lynched. Right now i'm still sorting things out making sure your actully scum but if these kin da things continue where i yell at the

YOUNGEST PLAYER IN THE GAME

you won't like the consaqentes.

I think this is town frustration.

Spiffeh-do you get why I have major problems with this?

I do for some of it, which is awkward because I know BBT and SW are in the middle of something and I don't want to be

that hydra

but your last point about his number of scumreads is the most salient to me.

This is a game and there is no need for such personal information.

Okay but at the same time we're 16 aquaintances stuck in a room together for 1-2 months and sometimes a little more of real life than we can help is going to spill into the game. Sometimes we're going to be tired or cranky or whatever and I think it's best to just treat that kind of thing as null. If it happens to me at some point people should try using sentences like this "I'm sorry you're upset, Plot, but you're still scum though." (if you're scumreading me) or "I'm sorry you're upset, Plot; put the keyboard down and go do something else." (if you're townreading me).

I'm sure all of us have stuff going on offline. Best to treat it as null.

For what it's worth, I also found this post confusing:

What was I talking about again anyway?

I forgot. Prolly time to prod dodge again.

~SW

because you weren't in prod range at the time; you weren't anywhere near prod range at the time. I didn't think it was scummy I just didn't understand it.



I liked both scorpious' questions in 930 and Bastion's response in 939.

We need to consolidate before deadline, @plot, thoughts on a spiffeh lynch?

am okay with it. Still want to sync up with you. Saturday afternoon is out because letterday puts me in a mood in which I shouldn't really be posting in games, but I'll be around in the morning and then all of Sunday. I'll probably be awake on Monday before the deadline but that's cutting it too close I think.

I'll be up for a few more hours tonight as well.


I like Wolfie's meta research of spiffeh in 963. Wish she'd do it for me too. (I don't expect you to be able to get anything alignment indicative out of meta diving me; I do expect you to skim my ISO in a town game or two to form baseline expectations of my playstyle and learn that the things you're scumreading me for are "Plot's just like that" things.)

Starting in 539 I had a really bad feeling about this slot. Plot's posts helping Scorpius rang as someone trying to get towncred and as you can see by reading that whole interaction, Scorpius townread them after that. It is pointed out in future posts I'll be sharing.

If you look at his readslist, he was townreading me before then. I was his only townread. Also, when I make a towncred grab, I actually get towncred for it. I did not expect anybody to give me towncred for coaching because coaching is a kinda scummy thing to do and I was really blatant about it. Scorpious continued to townread me after that but nobody else gave me towncred for it which was in line with my expectations.

Also, scorpious himself does not have enough towncred for his read on me to be an influential force in the thread. Please explain the scum motivation for doing what I did. I had literally nothing to gain from it because he was already townreading me and it wasn't the kind of move that would endear me to anybody else in the thread.

See as a hydra you are both part of this game. You don't have to tell me what Plot is thinking but I do have a right to use it as part of my reasons for finding your slot scummy.

This is true. You do have the right to use it as part of your reasons for finding our slot scummy. And here I am. We can talk. I can tell you about BBT that he is just like that and I can tell you about myself what I think and what I am like and why I do things that I do. If you have questions for me then you can ask them.

I poke the sleeping bear. I rattle the hornest's nest. Scum are not going to come bounding into the thread and offer themselves up to be lynched. Inactive town is a town that loses. So I'm trying to shake things up and see what happens.

How does this differ from BBT's behaviour in this thread? I know you were talking about your voting habits, but if you expand this metaphor a bit I think you will find it fits BBT to a T.

So where is plot and where is titus???

Had a headache. Am back now.


I like scorpious' question for dwlee in 1008.

I think BC vs. COTW is TvT..

I think it might be too >.>

VOTE: Tony Montanta

Vent in hydrachat about BC please to me SW. Tony needs to die.

I'm okay with this vote.


I am caught up and the people I want to lynch are: Tony, spiffeh, aristo, scorp. Rory is no longer my top townread and may be sliding into the nulls. Bella is still null.

CotW is someone I didn't want to lynch on day 1, and part of that is that I was looking forward to playing with both of them. I wanted to give them until day 2 to towntell and lynch different scum on day 1 if they're scum because I think they are one of the slots that will be easier to sort accurately later rather than sooner and more importantly that they (like Bella) would be easier to sort inaccurately on day 1 if that makes sense.

I liked their earlier posting and I think some of BBT's points are okay on them but my main issue with them is the playstyle based attacks after admitting that playstyle based attacks were a pet peeve of theirs. I'll get into that some in my next post (written simultaneously to this one; I moved all the playstyle things into one post so that my posts would be shorter and maybe higher chance of them being read.)

But hypocrisy isn't a scumtell so I need some time to figure out if they're scum or if I'm just mad at Wolfie.

--P

[BeardedCat]

Putting all of the stuff about my playstyle in their own special post:

Plot's posts are still pinging the fuck out of me

ok.

You could try ask me questions or something.

I'm honestly getting rather tired and burnt out reading BeardedCat

Plot sits back and posts all these wordy posts that no on really reads or likes and does pretty much nothing that resembles scumhunting at all.

This is the kind of thing that totally kills my motivation to play, fwiw. It's a playstyle clash that comes up in many of my games.

And it makes me wonder what happened to this:

Spoiler: you defending bbt from spiffeh's playstyle based attack

I really don't think it's worth a full out scumread when BBT objected to being called to be voted for, for not being here. When someone takes an issue that is not alignment indicative for you, and scumreads you for it, it is reasonable to expect that person will think it's scummy because it's a misrep. It's dishonest. I have had that used against me in games before. I've been scumread and voted for as town, for my emotions, when they are not alignment indicative. People are too quick in this game to jump on any little thing and it's supremely frustrating to have to deal with being scumread for things that are not alignment indicative, but personality indicative. It's especially annoying because it involves RL issues and Plot was still here even if BBT wasn't. While there may be a few things I don't like about this slot, that isn't one of them. If anything, I'd be more likely to scumread MS for that than BC.

because my posting style, my wordy posts, my difficulties communicating, that's all personality indicative, playstyle indicative, not alignment indicative, and it involves RL issues with me that your hydra partner happens to know about, so.

And saying that what I'm doing doesn't resemble scumhunting is confusing to me because I feel like I've been doing nothing but scumhunting all this time. I think that I play mafia very differently than you do, that I form reads differently and that I view and understand the game differently and it might take us some time to get used to each other, but people's issues with me in this game seem to be a combination of playstyle and burden of proficiency and it's irritating.

If we have conflicting access needs here then that's a discussion we probably need to have to see if we can work something out. Maybe someone could do English to English translation?

Frankly I do find you to be one of the odder hydras I've encountered as it is really obvious when head 1 is talking and when head 2 is talking cause head 1 is tea drinking, biscuit eating friendly, a head 2 is a kick to the nuts every few days.

haha. This is the kind of post that rekindles my motivation to play. Thank you for that. We do seem to have fallen into this good cop bad cop routine which wasn't planned or intentional but it's kind of working for us because I am getting reads from seeing how people react to BBT, who I've played with six and a half times (the half was the game he got lynched in before he could post a single time even though I spent 3 days working on my RVS joke for him ) and I think he's also getting something out of how people react to me.

We do approach things very differently and we disagree about some stuff but someone remind me to put this in our signature postgame because yeah I'm very much the "excuse me kind sir, pardon the interruption, but your scum is showing in this thread. You've got a bit of scumslip between your teeth, if you don't mind my saying, jolly good carry on now my dear" type whereas BBT is more in your face about his stances.

So you left out the problem I had with Plot's posts to spin this to look like I suddenly understand the scumreads on you based on this alone.

It's true that he could have responded to this to say "Plot's just like that" but we've mostly been not stepping on each other's toes here. He knew I'd respond to it when I got around to it and replied to the stuff that was directed at him. If you want both heads to respond to something, you need to aim it at both heads, otherwise you're getting a response from you're talking about.

Not every little thing needs to be replied to in a game; I thought part of your problem with me was that I write too many words, that is I respond to too many things. I can't respond to all the things without using as many words as I'm using. So either you want us both to respond to everything even the stuff that is aimed at the other head instead of trusting the other head to pick it up when they get to it, or you want us to use fewer words. We can't do both at once. Especially I can't.

--P

[Dwlee99]

What is your opinion to my response to scorpious' question, plot?

[BeardedCat]

i liked it too, I forgot to say. Or I felt like I was liking too many things in a row and someone was going to tell me to go to facebook.

Quoting for reference:

I'm facepalming so hard right now.

that's ok, but it warrented a vote on Errant,does it warrant a vote on Bastion?

I like the question because it was a good question. You voted Errant over something but didn't vote Bastion for the same thing. It makes sense to want to know why that is.

I don't think it does on bastion because, even though it's so wrong, he didn't go from a town read on KT and I to a scum read on us.

I like the response because it takes into account the game state. You're basically saying that if it was errant who did it, her reads progression wouldn't make sense but since Bastion was already scumreading you, it wasn't a flip flop, and it was the perceived flip flop that bothered you, not something else.

Your response was about 7 minutes after the question. Taking longer would be null because sometimes people post and then wander off to make lunch and that doesn't mean anything, but answering quickly is a sign that your reasoning is genuine.

--P

[Call of the Wild]

OK Plotinus is town. Could you tell BBT to stop being so scummy?

~SW

[BeardedCat]

I'll try! His playstyle is pretty nitpicky.

Do you want to lynch Tony or Spiffeh?

--P

[Call of the Wild]

I'll try! His playstyle is pretty nitpicky.

Do you want to lynch Tony or Spiffeh?

--P

Titus wants Tony. I don't disagree.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Also Plot sorry if I offended you.

~Wolfie

[BeardedCat]

VOTE: TonyMontana

I was scumreading sonic and Tony's replacing into a game and then being mostly inactive up until the deadline doesn't improve my view of the slot.



I accept your apology, Wolfie, you didn't know. It's just that it happens in almost all of my games that I'm doing the best that I can to communicate and it's not good enough. It comes up in about 2/3rds of my games and I think the other third was people giving me a little space when I was newbie because those were earlier games. Since early August it's come up every single game. I know that people who haven't played with me before aren't going to necessarily know what to do with me but it's something I'm hard on myself about.

It's okay if people can't always understand my communication, I'm sympathetic and I know I'm hard to read and wordy, and that when I'm not wordy I'm needlessly cryptic and that I can't switch between the two modes on purpose. But it's better to try to ask me questions than to assume I'm being difficult on purpose or that I'm purposefully not communicating. I play mafia to practice communication skills, so working on repairing communication with me is helpful.

--P

[Scorpious]

I'm really sorry to hear this. I wish that things go as well as they can for your family.

nice partial quote ..

Thank you. I really appreciate it.

[Call of the Wild]

Well I'll know better how to deal with you from here on out.

What do you think of Bella Plot?

~SW

[BeardedCat]

I think that when we were masons everyone was scumreading us whenever she wrote a catchup post, and I didn't really know why because knowing her alignment, her posts looked fine to me. She was lurky as town in the game that I modded (busy with offline stuff) but people didn't start suspecting her until day 3, and then her day 4 play was really good and she towned things up then.

I think she might be more engaged if she were scum. She likes being scum more than town.

I think it was you who mentioned her saying her gut was saying scorp was town in the very post she voted him (830). That pinged me too and I'd like to see her explain it later.

She's scumreading spiffeh (957), scorp I think (830), probably dwlee (830), aristophanes (611)
She's conflicted about Tony and us but I think she's townleaning my slot or maybe giving us the benefit of the doubt for now, same for kt, rory and errant (605)
She's townreading gummy (830), you (830), maybe sir b still 605

I think she has approximately the right number of scumreads but I disagree about dwlee. I'm otherwise mostly okay with the readslist though it's not particularly controversial. Her townreads are fairly widely townread, her scumreads are understandable, the middle seems to be a mixture of people that are hard to sort either because of skill level or because of lurking. She's null on KT which is interesting since he's been fairly polarising this game. I'd like to hear more about that null read.

I'm not sure her scumreads make sense together but it's also day 1.

--P

[Dwlee99]

I think that a null read isn't all that surprising on the KT slot, plot. If I didn't have his meta I'd stick him in null.

[Spiffeh]

What I noticed here is that you kept your vote on Anna until you were sure that your scumread there was resolved. You didn't just vote wherever it looked like a good wagon was about to pop up. I townread you hard in that game. On top of that I was worried about your concern for how Titus was reading you. I felt like you were too concerned with appearance. A few other comments have given me that idea as well. Your interference in my KT vote pinged as well. So did your Errant vote. Some of it was just gut and feeling and paranoia because I haven't been able to read you as town this game and I've never seen you as scum.

True, I guess I remembered that wrong. But I still don't think voting wherever a wagon will crop up (and I don't think it's fair to say that's all I've been doing but w/e) is an effective method of scum hunting on Day 1. Especially since we know how wrong I was about tunneling Anna in that game.

Either way, paranoia was kind of the answer I'd expect from town you so I am mostly ok with how your read has progressed on me.