Blitz 3: Dead of Winter Mafia - Game Over

[A Royal Saint]

Yep. Klingon smile because you are awesome. Vote for who you think is the scummiest.

@Scorpious ...Really??!?!?! If you are right that only helps scum to point that out in thread if they didn't know :/ I really can't believe we have to consolidate off of you :/

Ebwop falling asleep will read the rest of the thread tomorrow at some point.

[Netherspite]

Official Vote Count

A Royal Saint

(3): gameplay506, The Silver Bard, Ranger

gameplay506

(2): davesaz, A Royal Saint

Ranger

(1): Davsto

Klingoncelt

(1): Klingoncelt

Not Voting

(6): The Jester, Makoto Nanaya, Scorpious, Expedience, hiplop, pisskop

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-11-07 13:53:02)

[Ranger]

Changing your vote to a weaker scumread because they had one more vote on them? Rather than, I don't know, actually pushing the one you're more certain of?

I'm lazy. I let other people do the pushing except when I'm properly motivated.

I've got my eye on ranger for lack of reasoning with his reads, also he should post more.

WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP MAKING THIS ACCUSATION AGAINST ME?!? (The posting one, not the reasoning one. Reasoning's intentional.) I post at 1-3 different times every day, and each time I generally post 2-5 times on average. I talk plenty.

It's getting just as annoying as UNIVERSALLY being called a 'he' when my pronoun is listed

right under my profile

as 'she'.

VOTE: gameplay506

This is a very, VERY bad wagon.

If you think Ranger is scum, do you think her breaking the rules and saying her secondary wincon on the first page was fake?

Don't get me modkilled, please? We can't discuss this.

[Expedience]

Davsto, is changing a vote off a stronger scumread and onto a lesser scumread really that bad considering the setup and time constraints? It's sometimes necessary to compromise.

Not on the first day of a three day limit.

If you think Ranger is scum, do you think her breaking the rules and saying her secondary wincon on the first page was fake?

Well I certainly think reading him as town for it is a bad idea. I find that town would probably want to keep it secret even if they didn't know that you weren't allowed to say it to avoid policy lynches on them for having some terrible one, whereas scum would totally try to fake one for towncred.

I'm questioning you because that alone makes me ~90% sure Ranger is town. I think that if scum!Ranger was trying to fake a post restriction, they would've understood that scum don't have secondary wincons, and deduced such a rule would probably exist to prevent a potentially gamebreaking massclaim d1. Or at least, they would've worried that they could be outed by the fact that they didn't have a secondary wincon to claim easily, and possibly asked / tried to investigate how to stop this. Also I think that Ranger deliberately breaking the rules to appear town is a very unlikely scenario.

What do you think of Klingon's implied post restriction?

[Expedience]

VOTE: gameplay506

This is a very, VERY bad wagon.

I agree with you to some extent, but why do you think this? Is it just because ARS is on the wagon?

If you think Ranger is scum, do you think her breaking the rules and saying her secondary wincon on the first page was fake?

Don't get me modkilled, please? We can't discuss this.

From looking at the rules I'm fairly sure it's okay to discuss the secondary wincons so long as you aren't talking about your own.

[Expedience]

@Scorpious ...Really??!?!?! If you are right that only helps scum to point that out in thread if they didn't know :/ I really can't believe we have to consolidate off of you :/

The scum know all the secret wincons, so this doesn't really matter. It was fairly obvious anyway.

[Expedience]

VOTE: Klingoncelt

Scum know

secret

wincons.

So why is it supposedly this obvious if it's "secret"?

I think Klingon just chose a fake one that wasn't on the list at the start of the game, and one that would "confirm" her as town to everyone else.

Also she is pushing a lurker and apparently has no other scumreads.

Worst case scenario: we mislynch what is effectively a vote.

[Ranger]

I agree with you to some extent, but why do you think this? Is it just because ARS is on the wagon?

Well, combination of reasons. There's nothing I've seen from gameplay that's actually bad, which makes him being the lead wagon look all the more suspect. ARS being present solidifies that.

[The Silver Bard]

That being said,
VOTE: A Royal Saint.
While my scumread's weaker, this wagon's larger.

Seriously though, while I went all "whelp" on this earlier, this is weak as fuck. Changing your vote to a weaker scumread because they had one more vote on them? Rather than, I don't know, actually pushing the one you're more certain of?

I agree with this. Also:

Back it up with reasoning, this vote is cheap.

I don't need to; the statement is true.

You are very obviously scum right now. If no real wagon forms on you, I might have incentive to point out why, but people even from here should be able to see it.


In other news, The Jester

could

be scum, but I'm not sure. Probably not, but it's something I'm watching.

You are very obviously scum

right now

.

The last part with right now seems very odd to me. Why is she adding right now. Like if I am obvious scum I am obvious scum period, I can't be it right now. Seems like a way of keeping a door open to not suspecting me for being scum later. It smells fishy to me.

So Ranger is in my scumpool. But I find it unlikely that Ranger and Saint are scum together, seing how Ranger voted Saint over her biggest scumread.

[The Silver Bard]

UNVOTE: The Silver Bard

I do not like either of the current wagons. The Silver Bard looks very town to me at this point. I don't feel confident about lynching A Royal Saint, his push on Scorpious was bad but I don't think that this makes him scummy to be honest. I looked at one of A Royal Saint's other games and I don't think that this is scummy, it wouldn't manifest itself in this way. Also he just softclaimed so yeah this is a bad wagon.

I am not liking davesaz however. He seems unwilling to commit to a confident stance other than an easy push on a lurker. His thoughts seem shallow and he's trying to appear like he's scumhunting when he's only pointing out superficial things, for example:

Before i forget

UNVOTE: Davesto to keep the daves even.

This pings scum a bit. Are you concerned about balance like this often?

This is also a loaded question, Makoto seems hardly "concerned".

And also (as an example of shallow observations):

I'm also looking at hiphop for that entrance. It feels like scum waiting for a wagon to develop. The_Jester's "haven't received a PM" thing could be honest or it could also be an excuse for sitting back and watching for a place to jump in.

Neither of these are good reasons to me. Hiplop probably has a good reason for not voting, davesaz doesn't even ask him why which is what should have been done. Jester claiming to have not received a PM is most likely not alignment indicative at all, even worse davesaz fence-sits here, just "oh maybe its scummy maybe not idk". He just says this to look town and set up later pushes, he doesn't really do much with them (he votes gameplay later).

More for tradition's sake than anything else...
VOTE: Davsto

Wow, fast start. TBH getting real content within the first 1-2 pages is refreshing after seeing many games with RVS that goes on for 10+.
I'm working and do not have time to analyze the early content. Maybe in a few hours. Not like I'm known for snap reads anyway.

So you like me trying to get out of RVS, and then put down a random vote?

I saw the RVS comment from Makoto Nanaya about evening out the Daves and wanted to test what would happen if I followed it up. It wasn't really random, but it needed to look random in order to be a valid test. Being a little annoyed at having to explain that it was a joke seems town. Weak but in a game this quick we'll need every indicator we can get.

This doesn't really address what The Silver Bard said because how does RVS voting for Davsto test what would happen if you followed up Makoto Nanaya..? I don't understand. He posted 37 before Makoto posted 39 and he supposedly started ""testing"" her, so I don't really know what this means. While I do agree with his assessment of Makoto, there is also some vacillation with "weak but useful" that I don't like.

Who is your number one scumread?

You had been, but it was far from strong. I got more defensiveness from reading your posts than I'd expect for the subject matter. I need to evaluate this recent string of posts. Lots of questions might be a good sign, but only if they aren't manipulative, which remains to be seen.

He is fence-sitting and hesitant to commit to an opinion, even giving reasons why he might think differently but then nullifying them.

My observation on Pisskop is that his alignment is usually opposite my natural read -- the townier he looks, the more likely to be scum.
The way my luck runs, as soon as I switch to reading him that way he'll start acting townie when town.

Not like I'm known for snap reads anyway.

He seems to display a kind of self-deprecating attitude which looks to me like fence-sitting scum afraid to give an opinion early on.

The way he answers The Silver Bard in 106 seems somewhat forced.

Not a lot of things happening in this game anyway.

VOTE: gameplay506
Plenty going on and avoiding it is just wrong, especially with short days.

This is misrepresentation and scum narrativey, gameplay wasn't avoiding the things that were going on because in that very post he said "Royal and Klingo are seem off to me". And this could almost be compared to the self-deprecation that davesaz showed earlier.

VOTE: davesaz

We have about 43 hours left btw.

I am also a bit unsure about Kligoncelt's vote on gameplay as well, but I don't feel comfortable about voting for someone who can't defend themselves at all.

I like this post. I don't agree we should lynch davesaz today though. But you have pointed out a few things in davesaz play I agree with. The reluctance to make hard stances and fencesitting is something I see as well. Which makes me somewhat suspicious of him. But I think there is better options in Saint and Ranger today.

[The Silver Bard]

If Scorpious and I were scum together why would Scorpious coach me in thread?

It would be much easier to do so in scum daychat.

You are still just pushing your agenda. You are scum.

I mean, yes he's wrong, but he's not scum for it. Scum aren't so obvious as to push this kind of stupid agenda on d1, you're going to have to look harder.

I disagree. I have seen scum do these kinds of pushes from day one. They take a stance on a player and is afraid to change it because they get noticed for changing their mind, so they keep piling on reasons to why the target they chose should be lynch. It is also easier for scum to pick a target and just tunnel it, as it is much easier to mess up if they have to make up reasons to why multiple townies should be scum.

[The Silver Bard]

Honestly I think the scum having day talk has no bearing on whether it is incorrect. Point was no townie would say it. And that it was meant for the day chat thread and posted in the wrong spot.

However out of the interest of town cohesion and not beating a dead horse I will move on. So I will move onto my third scumspect.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: gameplay506

You keep adjusting your reasoning to fit your agenda!

You are dead wrong, and are caught being wrong. And now you claim Scorpious misposted it, instead of admitting you were wrong. Holy SAINT this is so bad.

Come on guys and girls, lynch this scum today!

[The Silver Bard]

Also the gameplay506 vote is like a total copout.

Yes, there is a chance gameplay is scum who made up his post restriction. But to just stop pushing your main scumreads and push someone who cannot talk back as soon as you get attention is WEAK.

[The Silver Bard]

Real tempted to PL Klingy. Because I think PLs are great and Im a great person.

If not a PL on Klingy who would you lynch and why?

[The Silver Bard]

Also the gameplay506 vote is like a total copout.

Yes, there is a chance gameplay is scum who made up his post restriction. But to just stop pushing your main scumreads and push someone who cannot talk back as soon as you get attention is WEAK.

OK, this was my bad. I somehow confused Klingoncelt with gameplay506, so I retract this point. Instead let me ask you this A Royal Saint why is gameplay506 Your 3rd scumspect?

[The Silver Bard]

3: No useful observations.
88: No useful observations.
114: Asking for opinions on Silver Bard, implying that he doesn't agree with the wagon but not outright saying so.
119: The rhetorical quasi-questions are basically already answered by what Ranger has said: "While my scumread's weaker, this wagon's larger."
126: The vote almost feels like an afterthought put there so he doesn't look scummy for suspecting someone without voting them.

Davsto, is changing a vote off a stronger scumread and onto a lesser scumread really that bad considering the setup and time constraints? It's sometimes necessary to compromise.

If you think Ranger is scum, do you think her breaking the rules and saying her secondary wincon on the first page was fake?

It is not unlikely for scum to be lazy enough to break rules and mess up unintentional. It also possible that it was calculated because she knew a modlynch on scum this early would just fuck the game up completely.

So I would say it is a null tell, but perhaps something slightly townie. Like 0.1 points towards her being town.

[The Silver Bard]

I think Klingoncelt is scummy..

@Klingon,is the quote the only reason you are voting gp?

Anyone else who you think is scummy? And why?

[The Silver Bard]

VOTE: Klingoncelt

Scum know

secret

wincons.

So why is it supposedly this obvious if it's "secret"?

I think Klingon just chose a fake one that wasn't on the list at the start of the game, and one that would "confirm" her as town to everyone else.

Also she is pushing a lurker and apparently has no other scumreads.

Worst case scenario: we mislynch what is effectively a vote.

I don't think a lynch on Klingoncelt is the way to go today.

As I have mentioned previously I think scum could easily make up this kind of postrestriction, so it isn't proof that she is town.

But it is basicly a policylynch, and a policylynch that we won't gain much information from if she is town. It is easy for scum to jump on this wagon, as she cannot defend herself.

If we don't agree on a lynch on either Saint or Ranger though, I will consolidate on Klingoncelt, as she will be an uncertainty throughout the game.

[The Silver Bard]

My feel for the game thus far is:

A Royal Saint - Probably scum (but not together with Ranger).
Ranger - May be scum (but not together with A Royal Saint).

The Jester I am slightly leaning scum on. His lurky ways and not putting down any vote makes me suspicious. Could be scum with both Saint and Ranger.
gameplay I am also slightly leaning scum on. Just as lurky. But have at least posted a vote on Saint, and a suspicioun towards Klingoncelt. Less likely to be scum with Saint.

Expedience I feel is town.
Davsto I am leaning town on, even though few posts I agree with what he posts.
Makoto I am very slightly leaning town on. It is just a gut feeling though. I would like to know more about who she thinks is scum first.

[The Silver Bard]

So with this I am off again.

I will be somewhat on limited access this weekend. Can only post via iphone or ipad, so I won't be able to quote effectivly.

[The_Jester]

FYI activity is not alignment indicative.
I'm in travel and it's pretty difficult to catch up on a phone. Writing down notes on my knee right now, gonna post them when I'm done.

[Peptobislawl]

I'll post my feelings on everyone a bit later when I have more time. To prove a point to bard about how annoying that was, it shall be in the form of one post per person.

[Peptobislawl]

Since I have a minute, l'll start with gameplay.

Play the dang game. Lurking isn't nessisarily alignment indictive, but it doesn't help town. That said, lurker lynches are for when we have no other leads, and he could always turn around and start posting.

[Makoto Nanaya]

I'll post my feelings on everyone a bit later when I have more time. To prove a point to bard about how annoying that was, it shall be in the form of one post per person.

Since I have a minute, l'll start with gameplay.

Play the dang game. Lurking isn't nessisarily alignment indictive, but it doesn't help town. That said, lurker lynches are for when we have no other leads, and he could always turn around and start posting.

Well that altslip didn't take any time at all.

[Makoto Nanaya]

The Jester

Not much to say really. If he has a big post oncoming then that would fix the only issue I have with him. Nullread until then.