Mini 1729 - History Mafia II END

[BeardedCat]

Well it was more BBT's read than mine (my read on you yesterDay was a very long winded "i don't even know but i don't want to lynch this today in case i figure it out later") but whatever.

I'm done with subtlety especially since you're going back to VT slipping. Why would scum shoot us when you crumbed that you were protecting us? Why did you crumb that you were protecting us after you VT slipped? Why didn't scum shoot you when you crumbed doc-or-jailkeeper? Is it because you're scum? You practically said that you were protecting us and now you're attacking us for not dying.

It looked like you were setting up a doc-or-jailkeeper claim which is the easiest fake claim for scum, but now you've gone back to not caring whether you're lynched (which is a VT only mindset) and I think the two in combination means that you're scum abandoning a fakeclaim, not town who can't remember whether they're a PR or VT from one post to the next.

That said, I'm not in a hurry, we have another 9 days to discuss this.

--P

[Spiffeh]

Oh true I forgot I did that lol

[Spiffeh]

Also I don't think I even VT slipped but isn't you acknowledging that I VT slipped mean you think I'm town?

But you're voting for me?

So you're scum, yes?

[Spiffeh]

BBT didn't like Spiffeh's Ari push in 1218, calling it baseless. Spiff, did you also think dwlee had a guilty? He said that he agrees with Spiffeh in 1221 that setupspec/rolespec is scummy but doesn't think it's good enough reason to have someone as your top scumread.

BBT clearly read 0 of my posts day 1.

[BeardedCat]

Also I don't think I even VT slipped but isn't you acknowledging that I VT slipped mean you think I'm town?

But you're voting for me?

So you're scum, yes?

I think "you can lynch me if you wanna i don't care" is something that can either come from a true VT or is something that scum will do to look like they're not being survivalistic. True PRs are more likely to say "you can try to wagon me but I'm not getting lynched" and scum preparing for a PR claim may do that too sometimes. Scum who hasn't made up their minds which way they want to go, or scum who have changed their minds about which way they're going to go, may wind up doing both.

I'm voting you, so I am scumreading you.

It's possible BBT forgot about your day 1 posts, or it's possible the hindsight of knowing how Ari flipped made BBT think you looked bad.

Do you think dwlee was softing a guilty on Ari or were you continuing with your day 1 Ari read?

--P

[Spiffeh]

But you said "you VT slipped".

Your post does not explain how that DOESN'T imply you know I'm town.

VOTE: BeardedCat

I'm also starting to think all your gigantic read posts of each player was just noise to make you seem contributional, especially since you are just discarding all of it today.

But w/e

[Spiffeh]

Whoa, didn't see BC's post there before my post.

I'll quote post that BC *didnt* link to, that pinged my interest.

If you're going to lynch me do it now because a no lynch is the worst option even over my death.
If not condense onto SOMEONE

"Take my life, just don't let us no-lynch" he heroically proclaimed as he had one vote on him.

Um yes because I wanted to make sure a lynch went through?

[BeardedCat]

I've townslipped as scum before. It doesn't mean anything. I was implying that you were intentionally VT slipping as scum.

I'm not discarding all of it today, though I'm taking into account subsequent events of course.

I know my ISO post on you in particular was long because I was trying to figure you out and I didn't quite succeed.

Does this look like I have a confident townread (or even a confident townlean) on you?

tl;dr:

my read on spiffeh is that i

neither feel like driving a wagon against him nor do I feel like resisting his wagon if one forms against him

. There's town stuff in here and scum stuff in here and

some of his posts feel really townie

but

i can see scum motivation in others

and I just don't know.

gun to the head, very weak townlean of the "not scum just sloppy" variety but I don't even know.

I

disliked his entrance

, then roughtly posts 200-700ish were towny and then

didn't like the way he interacted with the BC-CotW-MS triangle

but I did like the communication repair efforts in the aftermath of that, and then I

worried about the behaviour around the scorpious lynch

but I'm okay with the Aristophanes tunnel toDay.

I was more okay with the Aristophanes tunnel before he flipped town and I was also more okay with you before gummmy was nightkilled.

--P

[Starbuck]

Starting at the Top of Page 28....

100% agree with BeardedCat in #685 on Metal Sonic's splitting of reads for hydras.


After the MS/BC back and forth, Dwlee chimes in that it's TvT. What's so TvT about it?


I should note at this point that Aristo has 4 votes (my slot, Spiffeh, Dwlee and KT). Now that Aristo has flipped town, I feel it's important to look at this later when my catch up is over.


Ahh, and look gummmmy points out this pattern of Dwlee and KT/pignash voting for the same people in #710. With gummmy's town flip, I think this should definitely be considered and is a pattern that I'll be looking for later on. In this same post, however, he is against an Aristo wagon. I'm interested to see his turnaround for Day 2.


Something to note in #725, Errant says:

Ari is an easy mislynch. I don't like how people were either quick to vote him or quick to support a vote on him while voting someone else. If aristo is town then there is scum in that pool.

However, on Aristo's lynch from yesterday....

Errant is voting for Aristo in #1272 (Votecount 2.4), but isn't on the lynch in #1350. I'm just looking at the Mod's ISO for now, but given that comment above, it's like Errant seemed to remember that they were defending Aristo on Day 1 and wanted to be off the lynch.

Additionally, I'm not comfortable with Errant calling both KT and Dwlee town. I think if one is town, then the other is scum, and I'm highly betting on KTscum over Dwlee.

And I don't necessarily see what's wrong with voting for someone but wanting someone else lynched ultimately?

Once you admit that a vote is for pressure or another reason, then it ultimately loses the solid ground in which it stood on. I find it odd that you would say something like this, and be okay with someone not voting for their top scumread.


Lots of talk about people posting elsewhere, which isn't indicative of anything, and still talking about the actions of each head of the hydra. Seriously, this is kind of why I don't care for hydras. I'll play them every now and again, but this distraction is just continually awful.


I really dig gummmy's #745 wall on BeardedCat. I'm going to need to come back and re-read this again.


And here's BC's reaction in #747....

You know who else are good at being scum? Metal Sonic, Call of the Wild, and Bellaphant. Possibly some other people too but I don't have experience with them to say either way.

I want to note this because (1) deflection and (2) Call of the Wild is now a flipped townie. Would scumBC include a buddy on that list?


I don't care for Spiffeh's "Ew, when did Scorpious get down to only one vote on him" in #766. I like that Metal Sonic pushes Spiffeh on this, and obviously, Scorpious' reads were real because he flipped town. KT's jump onto this conversation, in #775 is awful.

Ending Top of Page 32

[Starbuck]

Starting at the Top of Page 32....

Aristo finally comes back in #778 and I agree with his position on KT and Dwlee. I like his questions to everyone else.

And there are far too many null reads. If you have so many null, why bother making a list if not to look busy?

This, right here, is why this new school reads list thing is pointless.


I dig CotW's call out of Spiffeh's defense of KT in #781. At this point in my reading, I'm trying to recall if Spiffeh has said anything in the negative about KT, even slightly, and I don't think so. I'll have to go read some ISO when I'm done, too. Jesus, I keep adding to my to-do list.


And MS got banned. Whoa. I just had to look up as to why and didn't realize it was all connected with that other stuff. Le sigh.


I think BeardedCat has a great points about Spiffeh in #788 and #790 about the hypocrisy coming from Spiffeh. Re: complaining about only one vote being on Scorpious, talking about Scorpious lurking suspicion off himself, and then unvoting Aristo (despite a scum read) to vote Bearded because Bearded is present and Aristo wasn't. I'm not digging it.


I'm okay with Dwlee's Spiffeh vote here, too. Until he switches the moment that KT votes for Scorpious to vote the same as KT. Really? Really?

Do you really think KT or I are scum, scorp.

I have to admit. In my almost 10 game experience. I have never seen two people so openly act as one unit. I don't like the vibe I get from it..

You guys change votes like underwear too. I don't like that either.

QFT.


Dwlee, how can you possibly get any kind of AtE read off of additional periods at the end of a sentence?


Bellaphant's jump onto Scorpious is highly suspect in #830. I wasn't really getting much from her prior to this post. I just couldn't really nail down anything, but this whole walk around post about how she feels scorp is town yet she votes for him doesn't speak well of her. She cites his struggle with dwlee/kt and general awkwardness, but nothing concrete. Feels very sheepish and weak. Does not compute.

And it seems like absolutely NO ONE questions her on it. Seriously? Oh wait, Errantparabola does, but that's it.


BeardedCat's brush off of the KT/Dwlee team up in #865 is troubling. They completely dismiss KT/Dwlee as town, but doesn't seem to want to consider that one or the other might be scum.


KT's general WTF about MS being replaced is weird in #875. I don't really care for his response to Tony in #877 either.


Nice to see Scorpious stand up for himself, but I still don't care for the tag team from Dwlee who immediately needs to defend KT. Scorpious is spot on when he says that KT/Dwlee (the former moreso than the latter, in my eyes) are quasi-trolling. This read-through has been ROUGH.

How does Scorpious being frustrated with KT/Dwlee lead to Dwlee saying that Scorpious was accusing them of cheating? For serious? Oh look, here's more AtE from KT.

How did you all let this BS with KT and Dwlee slide this long? One, if not both, is definitely scum.


Ending at the Bottom of Page 36

[BeardedCat]

Ugh, so, voteless doesn't necessarily mean town, because scum would be conf!towning a lot of people by day 4. If it is a different role, are there any advantages of claiming? I'm assuming BC's vote is back now?

I would have thought the exact same thing - if I didn't know we were town and think that Star is very likely town. I think the only way it makes sense is if it's a limited shot or there is some sort of condition on it because I agree that scum would be conf-towning a lot of people by repeatedly doing this.

He didn't like dwlee's 1159. He didn't say why, but my guess would be that since scum know the gender composition of the scumteam, and probably have fakeclaims anyway, it would be easier for scum to manipulate the lynchpool to their liking than for town to get something meaningful out it.

Confirming that this is the reason I dislike Dwlee's post.

BBT didn't like Spiffeh's Ari push in 1218, calling it baseless.

This is something I felt I needed to look into. I felt like Spiffeh was just posting 'Ari is scum' over and over and I couldn't remember any reasoning he gave.

BBT didn't like pignash's 1223 because of the "oh no i lost my post" thing.

Yeah, this was pretty bad. I realise Plot is cutting slack for some post afterwards but I'm not. I think that's the laziest (read: scummiest) way to catch up in a game. A townie would simply rewrite what they wrote (albeit a much shorter version) but would still share their thoughts.

BBT liked star's 1254, 1255, and 1262.

I wish he had responded to her points in detail, though

(bolded so he'll see when he next catches up).

It's quite simple really. I read his posts and I find that I'm nodding my head at near enough everything I read, and when that happens it's usually because they're town.

You also asked if we still think there's 1 scum in [cotw, spiffeh] now that cotw has flipped town and BBT certainly does still seem to think that

Yeah, Spiffeh is almost certainly scum. 1275 in particular pings now that gummy is dead, it's quite clear where gummy would have been heading coming into D3.

I think he was conflicted about 1288 and 1296 from Bastion. He liked some things about them, saying they seemed genuine, but he also said he'd normally attribute posts like that to scum.

Yeah, I really don't know how to explain this. It should probably be null overall but I still kinda town read him for them. Something about them feels genuine, that's all I can say. Usually, I would go after someone pretty hard for posts like these but, meh, dunno.

@plot, bbt town reading me makes me paranoid as well! I'll reply to your points later and I need to go back and read the vt debate thing.

I know, it's making me paranoid! Have I finally learnt to read you? Nah, can't be that. I'm probably scum.

In hindsight, I feel no better about Bella, and Starbuck summaries of the game give me nothing either way.

I find this difficult to digest - walk me through it.

Yeah BC not being dead probs means they're scum js

I fully expect to be lynched today so just remember that when I flip.

Not to mention Plot town reading me yesterday and completely tossing that read to the wayside.

Here we go again. Guys, just lynch me. I'm so town that I don't give a fuck.

Please do as the guy asks and lynch him.

~BBT

[Errantparabola]

I was townreading Spiffeh end of D2. Ill reevaluate him in light of recent posts, but i dont expect the read to change.
I also feel tempted to ISO dwlee. I was townreading him end of D1 but i havent actually seen anything from him since.

Actually thinking about it 1380 pings me and Ill explain why when i get to wifi.

[Dwlee99]

sure dwlee, that's reasonable.

Spoiler: bbt's points that were about/aimed at dwlee

BBT didn't like dwlee's 1159. He didn't say why, but my guess would be that since scum know the gender composition of the scumteam, and probably have fakeclaims anyway, it would be easier for scum to manipulate the lynchpool to their liking than for town to get something meaningful out it.


BBT thought that Dwlee's 1190 looked like he was softing a guilty on ari to help the lynch go through. It makes sense for scum to want to do that by softing instead of outright claiming because of plausible deniability after the person flips town.



BBT says that in 1228, Dwlee is working backwards: he's already scumreading someone so he makes a case to fit that, looking at things to support his already existing scumread. He was scumreading Aristo before Aristo did those things and then he went and found reasons.


BBT didn't like Dwlee's 1238 because he remembered him scumreading spiffeh but I just went back through dwlee's ISO and it seemed this wasn't a sudden 180, he unvoted spiffeh for something or other about 300 posts before that (probably sometime in day 1).

dwlee, can you talk some about your read on spiffeh and how it has evolved over the course of the game, please?

BBT didn't get why dwlee unvoted in 1283.

dwlee, why did you unvote?

--P

1. I don't see that as scummy at all. I'm curious because people have claimed guy/girl and it could of been useful.
2. Nothing I can really say here, imo. It looks like that but it wasn't that. If I was attempting to soft a guilty explain the unvote in 1283
3. It was a progression from my read earlier of Ari on day 1.
4. I don't recall D1 but I liked his D2 as I agreed with him about Ari's slot and he just seemed townie overall.
5. Ari showed a sudden surge of towniness with his post in 1278.

[Spiffeh]

Yeah the fact that Plot and BBT have to harp on how the night kill points to me makes me confident in my vote.

BC just spoon feed your scumbuddies reasons to vote for me already

[Spiffeh]

Also no I did not think Dwlee had a guilty.

Don't you dare act like Aristophanes was not the scummiest scumfuck in the world for the entire game until he claimed. Anyone who does is an automatic scum read

[Spiffeh]

I disagree with his nightkill analysis but otherwise his posts this day phase are less bad. Still, I see no reason not to lynch him.

BC saying there is no reason not to lynch Aristophanes.

Today they don't like me for my Aristophanes push and because the nightkill points to me.

Do you have anything that's not hypocritical or stupid?

[Starbuck]

Don't you dare act like Aristophanes was not the scummiest scumfuck in the world for the entire game until he claimed. Anyone who does is an automatic scum read

Still catching up, but that's a bit harsh, no?

He had some pretty good points of what I'm reading while I catch up. The only thing that really made him scummy, it seems, is his absence.

Way to overdramatize.

[Spiffeh]

I always overdramatize.

Tbh Starbuck I'm not really a fan of how Spiffeh-negative your catch ups have been today especially since I look like the consensus lynch.

js

[Starbuck]

Well, it's what I'm seeing as I read. Maybe you shouldn't have acted so scummy if you are actually town?

[Spiffeh]

Starbuck that is a TERRRRRIIIIBBBBBBLLLLLEEEEEEE post

[Spiffeh]

You're already posturing for when I flip town

[Starbuck]

I know it's WIFOMy greatness.

Since my voting privileges have been revoked (ironic for me as a woman, right?), I couldn't care. Trust me, you'll have a case on you coming.

[Spiffeh]

Make sure it's not anything that I have explained already because I really hate repeating myself

[Spiffeh]

There's something really fucking weird about the Bella/BC interactions and I am confident that at least one of them is scum.

They have been all "omg I'm so paranoid of you" and have done like absolutely nothing to make anything of this "paranoia".

Wouldn't be surprised if they were both scum

[Spiffeh]

Largest town read is Dwlee. Sir Bastion is a town lean because his Aristophanes push when he claimed looked genuine.

KT looked town but I don't remember a thing pignash has posted.

So I'm only willing to lynch any of [BeardedCat, Starbuck, Bellaphant, ErrantParabola, TonyMontana].

I need to ISO Bella and Errant thoroughly.