Blitz 12: Double Trouble! (Game Over)

[Titus]

Which games?

[AlwaysInnocent]

Normally phantom isn't this active.

And I get more serious as the game goes on.

What do you mean by normally? When Phantom is town?

[PhantomCobalt]

Normally phantom isn't this active.

And I get more serious as the game goes on.

What do you mean by normally? When Phantom is town?

im normally less fucked up, im currently wasted on pain meds

[AlwaysInnocent]

Which games?

I have not remembered them, unfortunately. It is not that important. I would have had that impression of you anyway.

[AlwaysInnocent]

Normally phantom isn't this active.

And I get more serious as the game goes on.

What do you mean by normally? When Phantom is town?

im normally less fucked up, im currently wasted on pain meds

Please don't say that. It is emotional blackmail.

[PhantomCobalt]

Normally phantom isn't this active.

And I get more serious as the game goes on.

What do you mean by normally? When Phantom is town?

im normally less fucked up, im currently wasted on pain meds

Please don't say that. It is emotional blackmail.

I'm sorry I'm just an ate master I can't help myself

[Dwlee99]

Normally phantom isn't this active.

And I get more serious as the game goes on.

What do you mean by normally? When Phantom is town?

As both alignments. o3o

[AlwaysInnocent]

Sorry to say it, and I certainly do not mean any offense, but it seems so easy to say. You do not seem fucked up at all, by the way.

Even if you are being truthful, to other people it sounds something like:

This night a burglar came into our house and stole our cute adorable puppies. Now my children (who are very young) have been crying non-stop since this morning. This is why I am acting all stressed and scummy. So please don't vote for me. Think about the puppies. You don't hate puppies, do you?

Now I feel kind of sorry for voting for you, even though you might as well be scum. I certainly do not want to hold you responsible for what you say you do while on meds, but at the same time people cannot ignore it either, if they think it is a scumtell. So, yeah, I am somewhat conflicted now.

[PhantomCobalt]

Sorry to say it, and I certainly do not mean any offense, but it seems so easy to say. You do not seem fucked up at all, by the way.

Even if you are being truthful, to other people it sounds something like:

This night a burglar came into our house and stole our cute adorable puppies. Now my children (who are very young) have been crying non-stop since this morning. This is why I am acting all stressed and scummy. So please don't vote for me. Think about the puppies. You don't hate puppies, do you?

Now I feel kind of sorry for voting for you, even though you might as well be scum. I certainly do not want to hold you responsible for what you say you do while on meds, but at the same time people cannot ignore it either, if they think it is a scumtell. So, yeah, I am somewhat conflicted now.

This isn't the best solution considering this is a blitz game but the effects are slowly wearing off so I'll be on a fresh new start tomorrow morning

[BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie]

First off, we seem to be out of RVS, so,

VOTE: Unvote:

Looks like things have started moving forward while I was gone. I'll try to pay some reads tomorrow.

You'll

try

...

tomorrow

? This is a blitz game. How about

doing...today

?

Because I got home at 2am and was dead tired. Sorry for the "try" but I don't make promises to people in online games of any sort. Deal with it.

I think I have with this vote
VOTE: Beboparebop
I do not like the promise of reads this early.

How bout now? We're already at

7

11 pages.

Now for a useless wall of text with my reactions to some posts so far. This is as much for me to get my thoughts organized as for any of you to see what I'm thinking and why I'm (*insert town or scum here at your preference*).

47 - lol

51-55 - Agreeing with Titus on this exchange.

54 & 57 - I can't tell how serious Dwlee is being, but this logic is awful if hes serious in any way. I don't find the joke funny, and it doesn't help my opinion of Dwlee over all.

There was that guy that vote hopped almost like Immediately in his second post that pinged me. It was like z something. I'm on a phone this is hard.

I did that, is that bad?

Also I just realized titus is town.

Why?

71-74 - Uh, why? Not for myself, or phantom, or titus, but how the hell did you get to any of this? What does post 74 even mean? I'm so confused...

VOTE: dwlee
His vote on Mr B makes me feel like his push on errant wasn't a joke, and he's grasping to "scumhunt"

I'm kinda agreeing on this.

81,82,89 - I have to agree with Mr. Innocent here. Currently wavering between votes on Dwlee and ranger.

I'm not liking Squirrelly's posts on page 5. I feel like they're just hitting easily targeted points without actually engaging in conversation. Unfortuanetly thats basically what I've done so far too, so I'm not sure I should read into this too much. #123 is the main exception. I guess I didn't follow this one well but why the vote on errant? I'd almost expect a vote on Dwlee or Ranger after that post.

127 - This feels town to me, but I don't have good logic to back that up.

135 - Where is the Dwlee town coming from?

136 & 138 & 142 - I'm fine with AlwaysInnocent's point. Not sure that titus's accusation here is well founded.

I don't like AlwaysInnocent bringing up alignment claims with no foundation again in 151

155 - How is trying to form a block indicative of alignment at all? Its beneficial to either alignment as long as you can drive decision making.


164 - Where does the texcat town read come from?

166 - Bullshit. Ranger had no interaction before making claims. Squirrely has had quite a bit to base claims on.

168 - This post is good. I'm beginning to agree with Innocent's assessment of Errant at this point.

172 - Why is Delee town?!?!?!

203 - I can see the reasoning for this wagon. I'm hoping to get a better read on phantom before deciding if I'm on board or not.

210 - So people keep saying. I guess I have a mental block.

223 - It starts to worry me when I start agreeing with someone in a large number of their posts. This is one of those cases.
*end of useless wall of text*

So, initially I was suspecting ranger and dwelee pretty heavily, I'm going to read some more into ranger's scum game, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for now based on what some other players have said about this seeming to match his town game. Dwlee I still don't like. Hes contributed very little and apparently thinks that posting reads is scummy. *facepalm* Squirrelly has seemed town aligned with solid reasoning since post 123. AlwaysInnocent is a town lean for me, but less than squirrelly. I like his logic, but I could see possible scum motivation. His play has been fairly defensive, mainly focusing people that have attacked him. As for the last of the forming town block, I've liked Titus's play, but I've read some of her other games and have no doubt that I could easily be manipulated into not suspecting Titus as scum. Errant I'm mostly agreeing with AI's assessment of their interaction. Phantom I'm not seeing the scum here that other people are. Squirrely made the claim that hes more focused on defending himself than scum hunting. On the other hand, I don't like any of the conclusions he comes to in 156, so I'll keep him as a scum lean. (I don't think errant seems town motivated, I don't think that fire screaming about being town is much of a tell at all, and I think a read into 111 is incomplete considering squirrelly's later posts.) One thing I do agree on is Phantom's assessment of Dom. He seems to be voting randomly and not providing us with any reasoning. At best hes a policy lynch candidate, but we have better scum reads at this point. Flubber hasn't said much but I like most of what he has said. Weak town lean.

Scum
Dwlee

Scumlean
Errant
PhantomCobalt
TheDominator37

Null
Titus
Ranger
Yakko - Haven't seen enough to get an opinion

Townlean
Flubbernugget
AlwaysInnocent

Town
Squirrelly

[BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie]

Oh, forgot to vote. I'm feeling comfortable enough with the town block to get on the Phantom wagon, and I have my own reservations about him.

VOTE: PhantomCobalt

[Wanderer-nl]

Did my first read-through (implying there will be another.. There will be but later, not this phase anymore)
Early townreads on Squirrelly and Yakko, scumleans on Always and Dom. I agree Dom is an easy target so with this many people around I'm ok to give him the blind eye for now.
My biggest scumread right now is Phantom. The reasons have already been mentioned, he seems to be more focussed on defending himself than actually scumhunting. For some players that actually can be a way to find scum, because the only alignment you can (usually and as town mostly) be sure of is your own, and having others explain their scumreads on you while you are town (or vice versa in multiball) can actually help one find out how full of bleep someone is. But he also started that bw on Firebringer while the guy hadn't even posted yet, and that's fine because those early wagons can be a nest of good info. Except Phantom didn't do anything with it. He didn't comment on anyone who voted, his reads that came after the wagon were nowhere based on the wagon he started except maybe his scumread on Firebringer, which he already seems to have forgotten about (which could be due to the meds @Phantom: maybe some clarity in how the meds affected your play would help us read you if it's not too forward for me to ask this.)

Imagine a vote on Phantom here. I'm going to bed soon and will actually put the format down after I wake up.

[Dwlee99]

Titus, null? Lol k.

[AlwaysInnocent]

UNVOTE: PhantomCobalt

I do not trust Wanderer-nl. I might re-vote, but I want to see the other voters first.

[PhantomCobalt]

@Wanderer I lacked common sense and couldn't really string thoughts together

But I'll be fine tomorrow so no excuses!

[Errantparabola]

A quick skim over the past few pages and AI is actually looking townier by the second. Let me do a full reread but for now
UNVOTE:

[Errantparabola]

Also, i dont see anything explicitly wrong with semantics?
It generates discussion and reads?

Semantics in combination with heavy confirmation bias is dangerous, since you are likely to interpret utterances in favor of your bias, when these utterances often have little to do with someone's alignment. I suppose semantics are not necessarily useless, but great care should be taken when trying to use them to "read" someone. In a way, it is true that I used semantics to establish that your push on me was sneaky, since you pushed for my lynch initially in a disguised way, which was picked up as intended. Only when I called you out on it, did you say that you were actively pushing for my lynch. Now, of course, I could have been getting that all wrong, but it is reason for me to suspect you. Then you continued to harass me for very minor stuff, like not responding to your every post and the semantics of saying "I am starting to think you are scum" after I had voted for you, which really made it seem as if you were trying to set me up (without really wanting to

sincerely

read my alignment).

And not everything that generates discussion necessarily leads to better reads. Sometimes it causes more chaos, more derailment, which makes reading people more difficult.

This is AI specifically ignoring the fact that a part of his case on me is reliant on me understanding how AI plays at a time before he detailed that. I'll excuse it because of the last few pages, I think. I think AI was right in how I was being conf-biasy but I still don't have confidence in townreading AI specifically by how he has approached my push on him.
Also I think that's an actual attempt scumhunting going on in there. Not as sure about AI scum now

210 is also pretty close to what I was going to say and I like how AI and I are thinking on the same level right now, I didn't really think PC's wall said much of anything
215 ok, never mind. AI and I were not thinking on the same level.

PC's deflection onto Dom is so shoddy that I am unsure whether PC is just easy mislynch bait here. Will ISO again.
And I'm actually quite surprised Titus doesn't have any doubts about PC being mislynch bait.

Phantom's ISO is terrible ate focused more on defend himself rather than scumhunting.

I know that "too scummy to be scum" is just terrible logic. But it just doesn't seem like optimal scum play to play this shoddily. To express the point I'm trying to make, the Titus quote above basically didn't need to be said. Like, everyone knows it.

Yakko you asked me when I first scumread AI. I assume it's the first post I made where I said I scumread AI. Did you look through my ISO? Because I'm feeling lazy and don't really want to do it right now. How does the answer to this question contribute at all to the game?

UNVOTE: PhantomCobalt

I do not trust Wanderer-nl. I might re-vote, but I want to see the other voters first.

Neither do i.

VOTE: wanderer

[Errantparabola]

I can't find a clear train of thought or follow-up with questions or thoughts from either Flubber or yakko. They've posted enough where I think that they should be out of the sidelines by now, but they aren't. I need to see more from them.

[Squirrelly]

Wait, you're a hydra? Wow I need to re read the first page.

I'll try to be better about signing - this is my first hydra.

I was most active at first as farside was busy. When you first noted a post of ours as town, that was mine. Then farside came in for a bit, and now we're mixing it up.

- persivul

[Squirrelly]

What do people think about TheDominator (ISO)? While I have my doubts about Phantom, I sort of get why he would vote TheDominator. TheDominator's posting behavior is just... odd. Even weirder than Dwlee's posting behavior.

Dominator's an easy target. Even When he's town he doesn't help town, and can actively hinder it. I believe he just came off a lengthy ban so that should tell you something - he's a troll, not a serious player.

I found phantom's vote on him to be a blatant attempt to shift attention off himself.

[texcat]

UNVOTE: PhantomCobalt

I do not trust Wanderer-nl. I might re-vote, but I want to see the other voters first.

Can you explain this? I'm not sure if you just have a problem with him

saying

that he's going to vote and you don't trust him to actually vote, or if it's something more?

And waiting to see which way the wind is blowing before voting? I'm not a fan.

[texcat]

NETA: Errant, could you explain as well your sudden distrust of Wanderer?

[Ranger]

@Ranger this have to be weak reads right? We just got of RVS.

Nope, except for those that were. (I noted the weak and strong ones.)

People on this site have

no

clue how obvious they make their alignments in the RVS.

How accurate do these reads end up being? How often do they change?

About 66% (may be dwindling down to 50% slowly), and not very often.

What makes you think all these people are town?

Because I'm pretty sure, even in THIS game, there are more town than scum. :P (I see at absolute most, six scum possible.)

Ranger, can you tell me about your town read on Dwlee?

Dwlee's posting was very, very strongly town scumhunting naturally rather than scum awkwardly scumhunting. (This is multiball, so everyone can legitimately scumhunt a little, but town scumhunt blindly and scum scumhunt strategically; Dwlee is the former.)

Sure would be nice to have reasons.

Reasons are a luxury, not a necessity.

She does that. I don't like it and will continue to point it out. Reads don't do much for the rest of us without explanation. But, I have seen her do this as town.

Ah. Didn't know you were a hydra. This explains things.

VOTE: BeBop.

[Errantparabola]

Did my first read-through (implying there will be another.. There will be but later, not this phase anymore)
Early townreads on Squirrelly and Yakko, scumleans on Always and Dom. I agree Dom is an easy target so with this many people around I'm ok to give him the blind eye for now.
My biggest scumread right now is Phantom. The reasons have already been mentioned, he seems to be more focussed on defending himself than actually scumhunting. For some players that actually can be a way to find scum, because the only alignment you can (usually and as town mostly) be sure of is your own, and having others explain their scumreads on you while you are town (or vice versa in multiball) can actually help one find out how full of bleep someone is. But he also started that bw on Firebringer while the guy hadn't even posted yet, and that's fine because those early wagons can be a nest of good info. Except Phantom didn't do anything with it. He didn't comment on anyone who voted, his reads that came after the wagon were nowhere based on the wagon he started except maybe his scumread on Firebringer, which he already seems to have forgotten about (which could be due to the meds @Phantom: maybe some clarity in how the meds affected your play would help us read you if it's not too forward for me to ask this.)

Imagine a vote on Phantom here. I'm going to bed soon and will actually put the format down after I wake up.

Texcat, I'm gonna break down this post.

1) Squirrelly is one of those folks that's easily townread by the group this game. Basically sheeping a townread, so no town points to wanderer here.
2) I'm curious about the townread on Yakko. I really want Wanderer to explain this because it's contributing to Yakko getting away with staying on the sidelines and potentially letting Yakko go unpressured for a good time.
3) Scumlean on Always and Dom are both easy targets and Wanderer preemptively tries to alleviate suspicion on this by admitting it and I don't like that.
4) Phantom is also an easy target (which doesn't make him town btw) and Wanderer continually, in her explanation tries to mitigate her gently pushing along a lynch that's been gaining momentum by providing excuses for wanderer.

[Errantparabola]

UNVOTE: PhantomCobalt

I do not trust Wanderer-nl. I might re-vote, but I want to see the other voters first.

Can you explain this? I'm not sure if you just have a problem with him

saying

that he's going to vote and you don't trust him to actually vote, or if it's something more?

And waiting to see which way the wind is blowing before voting? I'm not a fan.

I agree with your last point to some extent but I don't see scum motivation behind it.
AI, talk to me about wanderer.