Blitz 13 - Bad Omens (Judgment)

[Ether]

Day 1, Votecount 4

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2 Anxiety Attack (Wisdom, OceanWind)
2 OceanWind (Anxiety Attack, LucianRoy)
1 LucianRoy (MattP)
1 MattP (hi im Yakko)
1 pisskop (Usted)
1 Wisdom (pisskop)

1 Unvote (Ranger)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
The deadline is in (expired on 2015-12-16 14:00:00), on Wednesday, December 16 at 2:00 pm EST.

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[MattP]

Ty Ether for keeping the game funky and fresh w/ ur top notch vcs

[OceanWind]

I know you are capable of better than this.

I have zero completed towngames on this site so I don't know what you are trying to imply here. That I'm "better than this" as scum? If you mean that you think I'd play better as town, how would you know this?

And no, I haven't interacted with you but it's been a few hours into the game and I'll update my reads as the game progresses. At this point though I do have townreads on MattP, Wisdom, and Pisskop and you/Lucian make sense as a team. I thought Wisdom was correct in his assessment that you were underwhelming. I didn't like the way Lucian went out of his way to unvote you and not put leave you at L-1 or how he was acting around you in general (will wait for other head to post) which looked like how a weak scum player would react if his partner got under early suspicion for reasons he didn't understand. Calling out you/Lucian as a scumteam felt right and still does.

[Anxiety Attack]

I know you are capable of better than this.

I have zero completed towngames on this site so I don't know what you are trying to imply here. That I'm "better than this" as scum? If you mean that you think I'd play better as town, how would you know this?

And no, I haven't interacted with you but it's been a few hours into the game and I'll update my reads as the game progresses. At this point though I do have townreads on MattP, Wisdom, and Pisskop and you/Lucian make sense as a team. I thought Wisdom was correct in his assessment that you were underwhelming. I didn't like the way Lucian went out of his way to unvote you and not put leave you at L-1 or how he was acting around you in general (will wait for other head to post) which looked like how a weak scum player would react if his partner got under early suspicion for reasons he didn't understand. Calling out you/Lucian as a scumteam felt right and still does.

I barely posted at all in this game before Wisdom called me underwhelming and making preflip associatives is bad play. Also, stop putting words in my mouth and saying I'm doing things I'm not. You played a really good scumgame so in general you are capable of better play than what you have shown me up to the point I questioned you on it. I can assume, based on that, that you wouldn't be shit if you happened to be town here which I'm not so sure of right now. Stop deflecting onto me and start answering the other questions I asked you.

~SW

[hi im Yakko]

UNVOTE:

Usted said he knows how to play. Maybe he is still in rvs, maybe.

Also how the hell does ocean have a town read on pisskop he hasn't done anything. Also I don't buy the association.

Alos also

VOTE: lucian

[OceanWind]

I agree lucian looks somewhat scummy, i dont that scum would oppurtunistically scumread you and get offended by you. oc, thats not considering if you are buddies.

I'm not sure I understand this. Can you rephrase?

[OceanWind]

Also how the hell does ocean have a town read on pisskop he hasn't done anything. Also I don't buy the association.

He's done enough. Advocating PLs so early in the game, aggressive response when questioned on it, his point about SilverWolf's meta.

As for the association, we'll see.

[OceanWind]

@SilverWolf -

MattP's vote on LucianRoy is actually a pretty strong towntell. I may not have any experience with MattP's scumgame but I do have a general idea of how competent players respond to weak early attacks on them. If MattP was scum, he'd have easily defended against my attack on him and used that as a reason to scumread me. The fact that Lucian is on his side and defending him is another reason to do this. MattP played in a way that's contrary to what I expect of scum play - he recognized that Lucian jumping on me right after I attacked MattP was Lucian buddying him and in doing so, antagonized someone he could have used as an advocate for his scumteam. It makes perfect sense for him to do as town and very little sense as scum.

Adding to that is the fact that I do find Lucian scummy. The way he's defending Matt in Post 69 doesn't come across as genuine. Firstly, he didn't even wait for Matt to respond before diving in, and secondly, even if he disagreed with my opinion, that isn't indicative of my alignment.

How did you get all that off a naked vote?

~SW

What do you even mean "how did you get all that off a naked vote?"

[Anxiety Attack]

I can see pisskop town based on the PL talk alone. I don't see scum doing that right out of the gate. Plus, most of the rest of his posts remind me of his towngame so far.

~SW

[hi im Yakko]

Also how the hell does ocean have a town read on pisskop he hasn't done anything. Also I don't buy the association.

He's done enough. Advocating PLs so early in the game, aggressive response when questioned on it, his point about SilverWolf's meta.

As for the association, we'll see.

Indicates playstyle not alignment :/

[pisskop]

I agree lucian looks somewhat scummy, i dont that scum would oppurtunistically scumread you and get offended by you. oc, thats not considering if you are buddies.

I'm not sure I understand this. Can you rephrase?

I do fnd Lucian a player of interest, but doubt that scum would be obligated to omgus a player who scumread them and try to oppurtunisticly create a wagon on them

[pisskop]

Thats way to shallow to be good scumming

[OceanWind]

I do fnd Lucian a player of interest, but doubt that scum would be obligated to omgus a player who scumread them and try to oppurtunisticly create a wagon on them

Who are you referring to here? Lucian or MattP?

[Anxiety Attack]

@SilverWolf -

MattP's vote on LucianRoy is actually a pretty strong towntell. I may not have any experience with MattP's scumgame but I do have a general idea of how competent players respond to weak early attacks on them. If MattP was scum, he'd have easily defended against my attack on him and used that as a reason to scumread me. The fact that Lucian is on his side and defending him is another reason to do this. MattP played in a way that's contrary to what I expect of scum play - he recognized that Lucian jumping on me right after I attacked MattP was Lucian buddying him and in doing so, antagonized someone he could have used as an advocate for his scumteam. It makes perfect sense for him to do as town and very little sense as scum.

Adding to that is the fact that I do find Lucian scummy. The way he's defending Matt in Post 69 doesn't come across as genuine. Firstly, he didn't even wait for Matt to respond before diving in, and secondly, even if he disagreed with my opinion, that isn't indicative of my alignment.

How did you get all that off a naked vote?

~SW

What do you even mean "how did you get all that off a naked vote?"

80 You called this vote a strong towntell and went into detailed explanation of MattP's thought process behind it and I'd like to know how you came to this conclusion without ever asking Matt about the vote. Like, how do you know this was his reason for the vote?

~SW

[OceanWind]

80 You called this vote a strong towntell and went into detailed explanation of MattP's thought process behind it and I'd like to know how you came to this conclusion without ever asking Matt about the vote. Like, how do you know this was his reason for the vote?

A lot can be inferred from naked votes based on the timing, who it's on, and the context in which it's made. I don't always need someone to spell out for me precisely why they are voting another player. The Lucian vote was fairly obvious based on his very scummy defense of MattP and his earlier scummy posting. I assumed MattP was seeing similar things that I was because there wasn't much else to go on or many other reasons to suspect Lucian.

[pisskop]

I do fnd Lucian a player of interest, but doubt that scum would be obligated to omgus a player who scumread them and try to oppurtunisticly create a wagon on them

Who are you referring to here? Lucian or MattP?

Context, sir. Context.

Im talking about your erroneous opinion that Mattp would try to be obvscum and vote you when he could brush you off and save it for what it is: Aweak supporting point.

[Anxiety Attack]

Like Ocean, I don't feel like you did anything to sort my alignment before you decided I was scum with someone else. I had only made 4 posts, ika hasn't posted yet, Ranger hasn't and you are already calling scumteams. It's like you know my alignment already and don't care what it is. You just want me lynched.

And if anyone is buddying anyone in this game so far, it's you buddy MattP and maybe Wisdom. I mean you are calling them obvious town, saying they are giving off super strong towntells based on things you are assuming without asking.

Yeah, looks like your scumgame and how you treated me at the beginning of that game so I'm happy with my vote. I'll see what ika says when he gets here.

~SW

[MattP]

Pisskop, what is your opinion of me? (:

[pisskop]

I don townread, but you havent done anything overly scummy yet. Once other players make their alignments known we'll be able to talk more.

What do you think of Yakko? He votes with me, kinda buddies up to me, and then asks about a townread of me.

[pisskop]

vote: wisdom

VOTE: wisdom

ITT pisskop has no chill.

-1

Defending your scumbud lucian?

Am I? Or are you trying to fabricate a scum read to coast on?

I may have posted that too soon mattp reaction is way more dramatic than necessary.

VOTE: mattp

UNVOTE:

Usted said he knows how to play. Maybe he is still in rvs, maybe.

Also how the hell does ocean have a town read on pisskop he hasn't done anything. Also I don't buy the association.

Alos also

VOTE: lucian

[OceanWind]

I do fnd Lucian a player of interest, but doubt that scum would be obligated to omgus a player who scumread them and try to oppurtunisticly create a wagon on them

Who are you referring to here? Lucian or MattP?

Context, sir. Context.

Im talking about your erroneous opinion that Mattp would try to be obvscum and vote you when he could brush you off and save it for what it is: Aweak supporting point.

That makes it clearer. Optimal scum play in that scenario would have been to push me. It wouldn't make him "obvscum." He's already got Lucian's support. I made a lot of waves and was fairly aggressive in developing reads which in weaker playerlists is often seen as a scumtell. It's much more uncomfortable for scum to brush off an aggressive attack from someone and pursue other avenues than it is to just take advantage of the fact that someone made a weak attack on you and using it to push them. I'm speaking from past experiences as scum, I know what goes through my mind when I'm scum and that tends to informs my reads in future games.

[MattP]

I dont have an opinion of him yet

pedit:
Sure the dissonance of him voting lucian while also calling out ocean stands out but not in any super alignment indicative way. You can probably push him on that and I'll admire from the sidelines!

[OceanWind]

Like Ocean, I don't feel like you did anything to sort my alignment before you decided I was scum with someone else. I had only made 4 posts, ika hasn't posted yet, Ranger hasn't and you are already calling scumteams. It's like you know my alignment already and don't care what it is. You just want me lynched.

And if anyone is buddying anyone in this game so far, it's you buddy MattP and maybe Wisdom. I mean you are calling them obvious town, saying they are giving off super strong towntells based on things you are assuming without asking.

Yeah, looks like your scumgame and how you treated me at the beginning of that game so I'm happy with my vote. I'll see what ika says when he gets here.

~SW

You keep saying I've "decided" that you are scum as if I've already cast a hammer vote. I think you are scum, yes. If you're town, then I expect I'll see it soon. I'm interacting with you and figuring you out now.

You did only have four posts which is why I didn't have much to say about you. You just don't feel like the town-SilverWolf I've played with in the newbie game. You don't have the fire to figure out the game. I don't see you aggressively scumhunting and trying to move the game forward. I see you mostly complaining about my and Wisdom's suspicion of you and saying that I didn't try to figure you out hard enough before "concluding" that you are scum. So what if I called the scumteam? That doesn't mean I can't change my mind and realize that you are town.

[OceanWind]

Yeah, looks like your scumgame and how you treated me at the beginning of that game so I'm happy with my vote.

At the beginning of that game, I didn't know you. I wanted to see how you'd react so I could establish a baseline. You reacted by pushing back hard on me. GoodMorning even told me in the mafia PT that you have a tendency to omgus your attackers.

So, your argument is that knowing all this, when I drew scum against you again, I decided attacking you out of the gate is good scumplay.

[SilverWolf]

Like Ocean, I don't feel like you did anything to sort my alignment before you decided I was scum with someone else. I had only made 4 posts, ika hasn't posted yet, Ranger hasn't and you are already calling scumteams. It's like you know my alignment already and don't care what it is. You just want me lynched.

And if anyone is buddying anyone in this game so far, it's you buddy MattP and maybe Wisdom. I mean you are calling them obvious town, saying they are giving off super strong towntells based on things you are assuming without asking.

Yeah, looks like your scumgame and how you treated me at the beginning of that game so I'm happy with my vote. I'll see what ika says when he gets here.

~SW

You keep saying I've "decided" that you are scum as if I've already cast a hammer vote. I think you are scum, yes. If you're town, then I expect I'll see it soon. I'm interacting with you and figuring you out now.

You did only have four posts which is why I didn't have much to say about you. You just don't feel like the town-SilverWolf I've played with in the newbie game. You don't have the fire to figure out the game. I don't see you aggressively scumhunting and trying to move the game forward. I see you mostly complaining about my and Wisdom's suspicion of you and saying that I didn't try to figure you out hard enough before "concluding" that you are scum. So what if I called the scumteam? That doesn't mean I can't change my mind and realize that you are town.

BS-The game barely started. You can't possibly have expected me to have anything figured out yet at the point you called me scum. You know what I see. I see your scumgame from newbie 1656 where you attacked me similarly right out of the gate, up to and including you talking about how you like to make waves and how you expect scum to come after you for your weak points, even though town me in that game, went after you and scum GM on both of your weak points on me.

So yeah, I feel like your scumread is BS and I'm saying so because I'm sure you know, scum have to fabricate scumreads on townies. Having said that, I'm gonna let ika catch up and see if he agrees with me and try to keep out of tunnel/confbias mode.

pedit: GM told you that in the Mafia PT of 1656 that I do that AS TOWN and you told her you were pushing me anyway so yeah, I do think you decided to do it again as scum. But thank you for acknowledging I push back hard against people who scumread me for bad reasons as town. Hell, even your reason for saying you wouldn't do that as scum is the EXACT excuse GM gave me as scum in that game.

~SW