NY 192: Game Shop Mafia (Over)

[DeathNote]

I don't know how to respond to that. I voted him because I saw something I didn't like. Who cares what tense it's in.

[DeathNote]

Dont judge he site based on this game. Go out and mingle with players more than 2 years old.

I don't. I do plenty on the site, just very little with mafia. I even go to meets to hang out with people and will play F2F mafia there. Strangely, most of those people don't play Forum mafia anymore either.

[Nosferatu]

I don't know how to respond to that. I voted him because I saw something I didn't like. Who cares what tense it's in.

Grammar betrays people's thoughts often.

[DeathNote]

Maybe if you're an idiot

[Aeronaut]

However, I reach the last page and suddenly lost my desire to care because Mafia is a bullshit game. What's the point of playing if people can just meta read so hard? Like either Aero/Fro99er are both scum or they are both town (most likely the later) but the fact that the can just "townread" each other like that defeats the purpose for me. I can't get back into the meta of this game because I don't know enough of peoples meta.

Well, for me it depends on the way a meta read is presented. For example, awhile ago, someone said something like "RC knows my scum game, she should know better, this isn't my scum game". THAT, in my opinion, is sort of a bullshit excuse. When I gave my meta read on Fro99er, I sort of explained how I viewed him in both alignments, and then gave examples to two games which exemplified that well.

He's also sort of a special case, just in the fact that I don't feel like he could really "act" like his town meta, because he plays with a lot of emotion, and that sort of thing is really hard to fake without looking like pure bullshit.

He's not ruled out by any means. But as far as I'm concerned right now, he's town and I'm moving on.

ro99er has been acting more and more increasingly textbook scummy until about the breaking point when they town-read each other. A town player getting flustered because he knew another aggressive townie was going to push him, yeah I get that. It's a little bullshit though.

Do you get it, or is it bullshit? Pick one, because you're both casting shade into my argument, as well as sort of saying you're OK with it.

Spoiler: stuff

Omgus?

VOTE: Dwlee99

k

vote:Wickedestjr

daykill:pisskop

what why?

Cool, Aero is probtown.

Also I remembered wrong about davesaz. Only game I played was open 614 where he caught up several pages into the game, so I haven't seen davesaz RVS

VOTE: Frozen Angel

What? How did you mix something like this up? weird shit man

being scum?

insightful :^)

I'm not!

insightful x2

I may or may not be trolling lightly.

im surrounded by such insight 0-0

defensive how?

Facepalm denotes frustration.
Is OMGUS alignment indicative?

defensive how?

Facepalm denotes frustration.
Is OMGUS alignment indicative?

IS it?

kekerino putting a pin in this

RC is probably scum, actually. I am p sure of it.
And D5 when town decides to lynch you and you flip scum, rc?

k

btw, who wants to take bets on how long I last?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTkFgj4dA1w[/youtube]

VOTE: dwlee

VOTE: Fro99er

I don't like that as soon as I say that I'm suspicious of you and another person, you immediately vote the other person.

ye

You , Nero , You

VOTE: Aero

what are you even trying to achieve?

Thats me trying to prove I know OMGUS is not alignment indicative! ^^^^

what?

Aero might actually be scum.

He knows my vote hopping is pretty fucking normal for town!me and has even said so in past games. This time he spins it as me giving into his pressure which is bullshit.

link meta

ye

Pisskop....What's your take on me so far?

What kind of question is this?

Im approaching you like I would mollie. Which is to sit back and let you hang yourself if scum.

ooohhhhhhh shots fired

I don't care that you vote hopped, I simply thought about what I would do as scum, if somebody accused me and someone else of being scum, I'd try to turn it against that other person, as well as distance myself from them.

hmm

Why do you think he asked me about himself, aero? I want to know your actual line of logic here.

The question is, why ask about yourself? What does he gain from that information wise?

I gain a ton of information asking what pisskop thinks

i hope you elaborate by the time i catch up

I don't care that you vote hopped, I simply thought about what I would do as scum, if somebody accused me and someone else of being scum, I'd try to turn it against that other person, as well as distance myself from them.

IT HAD NOTHING TO DO W TH YOU ACCUSING ME

JESUS FUCK

I would seriously replace out of this game had I not pre inned because I wanted to play an AP game.

hmm

Yea. You're town.

what?

Aero is probably town, because I don't think he, as someone I consider a MS friend, would make me this angry if he was scum who knew I was town.

what?

okay lovers quarrel?

got lazy with the last page

VOTE: The Cow

[Aeronaut]

^cows last posts was a bunch of nothing. What was your intentions when you posted that?

Commentary on my thoughts while reading the thread to be used at a later date or so other people can get a more "emotional" kinda read on me. Also to bring my own thoughts into the fray, though not directly contributing to the discussion. I intend to bring my own shit to the table when I make a voting post. Whenever that is.

.... What?

Unvote. Vote: Aeronaut

RC is probably scum, actually. I am p sure of it.
And D5 when town decides to lynch you and you flip scum, rc?

Why is RC scum?

Because her vote on me. She should know better.

Grossss
You can't expect any of us to relate to your personal knowlage of RC or his personal knowledge of you. This is subjective and not in any way a real argument.

You asked Dwlee for his reasoning. So why, when he gives his reasoning, do you discount it because it's personal knowledge rather than attempt to understand the reason itself? I think it's unreasonable that you would complain about the reasoning being un-relatable considering he only gave the reasoning because he was asked for it. Also, what does grossss mean in the context of a mafia game?

grossss means that I thought the post was gross.

I'm discounting it because of what I already said in my post; His only real answer there was that "RC should know better". That's a silly argument, voting someone because you think they should know YOUR scum game.

Sure. Here's the exact post: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p7188512

I was also scum in that game though, which means most of what I said was just BS

Not sure why this matters. Even if you were scum, it still remains true that you acknowledged him vote hopping in another game where he was town - yet voted him for similar behavior here.

Voted him to observe the reaction here, not as a real argument. And I don't know if it's true of the rest of you, but if I'm scum in a game, yea, generally most of what I say isn't what I really believe. I guess I didn't really need to point it out.

Generally when town he gets into a townVtown and really flustered early on. Check Refraction Mafia if you want to see a good example of this, I almost had to replace him multiple times. As scum, he's really calm and quiet and non confrontational; check Delicious Mafia 2 if you want a good example of that.

Is this grossss?
Do you think Fro99er is aware of this tell?

Yea, but as I stated above, it'd be hard for him to fake that shit.

Why "most likely the latter" ?

Because two scum wouldn't do that?

However, I reach the last page and suddenly lost my desire to care because Mafia is a bullshit game. What's the point of playing if people can just meta read so hard? Like either Aero/Fro99er are both scum or they are both town (most likely the later) but the fact that the can just "townread" each other like that defeats the purpose for me. I can't get back into the meta of this game because I don't know enough of peoples meta.

What about the possibility that one is scum but knows his meta well enough to fake it, well enough to fool the other?

What about that would never work? Like who reasonably does that? Sure you can bus a partner but who has the gall to try and meta clear someone day 1?

That's not what I'm saying. A is scum but knows his meta well enough to fool town B into thinking he's town.
So I'm saying that Aero and Fro99er aren't necessarily the same alignment from that interaction, like you seemed to think.

Based off the interaction, is that what you think happened? I see two people who seemed to have convinced each other at the same time they were town. If meta were so easily broken, people wouldn't be trying to use it non-stop to convince others. Lets face it, Meta is the easiest way to get a solid read on someone if you honestly know their playstyle.

Hold on, weren't you complaining like two pages ago how much you think meta is bullshit? Yes, yes you were.

and I was reaction testing.

ummm no you were not.

[Aeronaut]

That's only up to like page, nine, imm keep going now.

[Nosferatu]

Maybe if you're an idiot

I can tell you're not a fan of Freud.

[Aeronaut]

Page nine and ten, 0/10 would not read again

[DeathNote]

Yeah Meta clearing is dumb and I hate it, I think everyone knows that now. Doesn't mean it doesn't work. I just don't like it.

I also don't like going to the dentist but I do that anyways.

[Aeronaut]

So this game started out so strong and now it's just this pile of boring bickering.

Page twelve is like a fight about what font size to use or something

Are you seriously going to paint me bolding stuff as being scum? Are you for fucking real?

So why are you bolder my after everyone else did?

And yes I'm serious.

My deciphering of this push is that Dwlee is doing the bolding because he's trying to fit in, as scum would. I get it, but it seems like kind of a stretch on it's own to me.

Also his vote hop.

They know how I am in RVS and they have seen my scum game. Their vote is awful.

Also his vote hop.

What's wrong with vote hopping?

It's opportunistic.

Aero might actually be scum.

He knows my vote hopping is pretty fucking normal for town!me and has even said so in past games. This time he spins it as me giving into his pressure which is bullshit.

"This is subjective and not in any way a real argument."

What?

Also, why you no answer my question?

I was quoting Aero.

Dwlee' original stance on vote hopping for the record

Again, a stretch.

Such misrep much wow.

And fuck you, fro99er.
You want me to tell you why I bolded something? I

felt

and you

can't

tell me to

stop

bolding.

[Wickedestjr]

You ignored deathnote basically scumclaiming - why?

I didn't ignore DeathNote's "scum claim" post. I was one of the only/first players to ask him about it, actually - so I have no idea why you are accusing

me

of ignoring it.

I didn't vote or express suspicion of him because I'm not sure it's a scum claim. Why would DeathNote-scum openly admit to being frustrated about something that he shouldn't be frustrated about as town?

[DeathNote]

Because it's frustrating >.>

I know that question wasn't meant for me...

[Aeronaut]

Wickedestjr is the santa hat guy, I had to check their name. They seem to be active lurking with their last few posts or they're just lost.

Looking at his ISO, this is surprisingly really true. Looking into that after this post

Wickedestjr is the santa hat guy, I had to check their name. They seem to be active lurking with their last few posts or they're just lost.

I

am

somewhat lost. The only person that I suspect right now hasn't posted since I voted for him. Having said that, I asked each question for a reason and just because you don't see that reason doesn't mean I'm scum that's active-lurking...

Stop asking questions pls.

What should I do instead?

Find something to talk about.

Also I'm completely flipping my read on wicked to town.

Why is this? Nothing really changed since you just said he hadn't done anything/

Page 4.

Would scum me really be that lazy on post one?

Is this WIFOM necessary to defend yourself?

Page 5.

I gain a ton of information asking what pisskop thinks

Please can you share this "ton of information".

Page 6.

Aero is probably town, because I don't think he, as someone I consider a MS friend, would make me this angry if he was scum who knew I was town.

Scum theatrics or frustrated townie?
Null for me.

Page 8.

If RC is probably scum, then why are you not voting him? Instead, you are sheeping Aero's page 1 "I don't like this post" vote for Frozen Angel, which he removed a few pages later...

Valid point.

Do you think Fro99er is aware of this tell?

Good question.

vla 2 days

UNVOTE: Zulfy
I'll be back.

It feels like scum trying to be playful and integrate themselves into the game.

Have you seen any further evidence for this?
Could town be "playful" and trying to "integrate themselves into the game"?

This is a really barebones response to like 15 pages of game.

Also, are you inviting Zulfy because he decided to go V/LA? What sense does that make?

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Dwlee99
first player to post is always scum

Spoiler: stuff

Omgus?

VOTE: Dwlee99

k

vote:Wickedestjr

daykill:pisskop

what why?

Cool, Aero is probtown.

Also I remembered wrong about davesaz. Only game I played was open 614 where he caught up several pages into the game, so I haven't seen davesaz RVS

VOTE: Frozen Angel

What? How did you mix something like this up? weird shit man

being scum?

insightful :^)

I'm not!

insightful x2

I may or may not be trolling lightly.

im surrounded by such insight 0-0

defensive how?

Facepalm denotes frustration.
Is OMGUS alignment indicative?

defensive how?

Facepalm denotes frustration.
Is OMGUS alignment indicative?

IS it?

kekerino putting a pin in this

RC is probably scum, actually. I am p sure of it.
And D5 when town decides to lynch you and you flip scum, rc?

k

btw, who wants to take bets on how long I last?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTkFgj4dA1w[/youtube]

VOTE: dwlee

VOTE: Fro99er

I don't like that as soon as I say that I'm suspicious of you and another person, you immediately vote the other person.

ye

You , Nero , You

VOTE: Aero

what are you even trying to achieve?

Thats me trying to prove I know OMGUS is not alignment indicative! ^^^^

what?

Aero might actually be scum.

He knows my vote hopping is pretty fucking normal for town!me and has even said so in past games. This time he spins it as me giving into his pressure which is bullshit.

link meta

ye

Pisskop....What's your take on me so far?

What kind of question is this?

Im approaching you like I would mollie. Which is to sit back and let you hang yourself if scum.

ooohhhhhhh shots fired

I don't care that you vote hopped, I simply thought about what I would do as scum, if somebody accused me and someone else of being scum, I'd try to turn it against that other person, as well as distance myself from them.

hmm

Why do you think he asked me about himself, aero? I want to know your actual line of logic here.

The question is, why ask about yourself? What does he gain from that information wise?

I gain a ton of information asking what pisskop thinks

i hope you elaborate by the time i catch up

I don't care that you vote hopped, I simply thought about what I would do as scum, if somebody accused me and someone else of being scum, I'd try to turn it against that other person, as well as distance myself from them.

IT HAD NOTHING TO DO W TH YOU ACCUSING ME

JESUS FUCK

I would seriously replace out of this game had I not pre inned because I wanted to play an AP game.

hmm

Yea. You're town.

what?

Aero is probably town, because I don't think he, as someone I consider a MS friend, would make me this angry if he was scum who knew I was town.

what?

okay lovers quarrel?

got lazy with the last page

^cows last posts was a bunch of nothing. What was your intentions when you posted that?

Commentary on my thoughts while reading the thread to be used at a later date or so other people can get a more "emotional" kinda read on me. Also to bring my own thoughts into the fray, though not directly contributing to the discussion. I intend to bring my own shit to the table when I make a voting post. Whenever that is.

I don't know whats happening and I don't know if I like it.Im too tired for this shit. Why is everyone yelling?

Rereading and shit.

ye dwlee is scummy ttttttttttttttbbbbbbbbbbbbbhhhhhhhhhhh

not sure if floundering vi or scummy-scum

VOTE: FA

All of this yelling makes me tired.

Imma sheep pk here. Looks like he knows what he's doing. I can't sort FA but I kinda want her dead t b h

Chill out dude (ayyyyy). I think you're massively scummy but emotions have a tendency to fuzz up my scumdar if I don't have experience with the subject.

No

Pretty much everything about you pings me scum. From the theatrics and line breaks, to the overemotionalness. These things always ping me scum, but I can't sort it without experience with the player. Can we not spam up the thread so much?

This is TheCows whole ISO, for anyone who hasn't look at it yet. Posts 175 and 426 are the only ones that really even say anything, and even then it's all just kind of echoing what the rest of us are saying.

Fine with my vote.

[Aeronaut]

Correction; Key's catchup was only until page ~8. I still think it's not too great, though.

[Dwlee99]

Wicked's response to my little case and some stuff I skimmed in his iso made me think he's town.

[TheCow]

I should work on my communications skills.

[Nosferatu]

I should work on my communications skills.

Won't matter if you're not saying anything at all.

[Aeronaut]

Right now, I don't really know what to think about FA. In my mine, she could be just as easily flailing scum as frustrated town. I don't want to lynch her yet.

Id feel awful bad if she was town, and until we talk this out Im only going to b second guessing my otherwise pretty honed sense.

This post is giving me the creeps for some reason. Putting it here to remind myself.

That's not my point.

DN's post basically assumed that these meta townreads were unviolable confirmed townies. Why would he as town be mad that 2 people mutually confirmed themselves as townies (aka MASONS.)

This is an interesting theory. I hadn't thought about that. Don't you think it would be just as easy for him to just hate meta, though? Like, I feel like there are a

lot

of people who despise meta reads more than he does.

I'm here, I had a busy night but was trying to read up over my phone. I'll place a vote in a second.

Why is it important that you have a vote down?

Vote: Cow

Whatever, there was already a moment in which I thought cow said something sketch and called him out on it. That's why I was willing to jump on that vote.

Point me to moment specifically, please.

It's just impossible for me to scumhunt here.

This seems like one of these things you're going to keep saying to get out of scumhunting.

Well, not all games end up like this. This particular mixture of players has a web of relationships to varying degrees. Players like apparently wake havent even said boo yet, but are ranked amoung the better players.

I *cough* would like to think I also rank up there, but I have a very playstyly playstyle.

Yea, it's a weird playerlist for sure.

Wake usually comes in around the end of day 1 with some triumphant catchup post or something.

[Aeronaut]

I should work on my communications skills.

Won't matter if you're not saying anything at all.

Spoiler:

[Nosferatu]

walked right into that one didn't I

[Wickedestjr]

Wow, that was quite a lot to catch up.

The impression I'm getting through the last several pages is that dwlee is scum caught for the wrong reason.
First there may have been some misinterpretation of his stance about vote hopping being scummy.
That got cleared up and he's taking heat for an opinion which goes against the grain a bit.
Having a position which is "wrong' compared to the norm isn't scummy per se, but the reaction certainly looks it.

VOTE: Dwlee99

This feels like opportunistic scum...

Unvote. Vote: davesaz

[Fro99er]

Weirdly Aero and I sound like we have the same reads

[Fro99er]

Wicked - I agree