NY 192: Game Shop Mafia (Over)

[RadiantCowbells]

Can we just agree to lynch Cow or FA or Jestr so I don't have to deal with them any longer?

Like thank god I'm dying N1 or I'd have replaced out already.

[Keyser Söze]

Not really sure about scum.

These were your scum-reads from earlier:

Scum Reads:
Deathnote
Nosferatu

Please could you quote and explain which posts made DeathNote and Nosferatu current town/null reads?

[Dwlee99]

Nosferatu is null because I don't have enough to lynch them atm.
Deathnote claimed PR - not pursuing that today.

And RC, I'm having trouble getting into the game. I can sort of use PoE to find some scum.

I see things, and they don't ping as scummy because people could be town doing the same exact thing.

Cow and Nero are good examples of this because they're both posting just enough content to seem sort of townie but not enough that I town read them yet.

[Keyser Söze]

Marginal suspicion: Nosferatu.

I will begin by looking at Nosferatu's first vote:

VOTE: Dwlee
something bothers me about you and I don't know what. Post more so I can tell you why you're scum.

I was uncomfortable with his initial vote because I do not sense the sincerity or strength of it. I feel like he was obliged to vote for Dwlee99, and then a reason was added on (I do not believe even Nosferatu believed in this vote).

I did not understand the logic of his unvote either:

UNVOTE: Dwlee
just town with wrong opinions who can't handle pressure. If meta proves this has happened before with him as scum I'll consider moving back.

So did Nosferatu meta-check Dwlee99's completed games, to see if scum-Dwlee99 has "wrong opinions" or "can't handle pressure"? I feel like the "I'll consider moving back" final sentence keeps the vote-opportunity open.

I do not understand Nosferatu's current scum read/vote/reason on davesaz either:

VOTE: davesaz
pedit: oh he's back

Thus, is Nosferatu's failure to post a solid scum read/vote/reason because he is a townie who only has town/null reads so far?

I never made a scum case. All of my previous scum reads have been overturned by me looking over and reconsidering

Or is scum-Nosferatu not actively pushing/pressing/questioning players, nor committing to scum reads to stay out of the focus of town?
Furthermore, what percentage of Nosferatu's 18 posts are Nosferatu scum-hunting?

[Keyser Söze]

Where do we go from here?

I am still all for scum hunting

and think Cow is a great day 1 lynch.

This sounded very positive after your defeatist "rant". However, since this promise, I have seen no signs of "scum hunting". Neither have you provided an argument for your "great day 1 lynch" of The Cow.

I think... I actually have a new scumread now.

unvote

How did your read of TheCow develop, do you now town/null read The Cow? If so, why?

I just don't have the patience to sit around and let people apply pressure to me so I try to speed things along.

I would love to see you "apply pressure" to your scum reads.

[Frozen Angel]

RC

Sorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyy about the thing you want me policy lynched for

[Nosferatu]

I did not understand the logic of his unvote either:

UNVOTE: Dwlee
just town with wrong opinions who can't handle pressure. If meta proves this has happened before with him as scum I'll consider moving back.

So did Nosferatu meta-check Dwlee99's completed games, to see if scum-Dwlee99 has "wrong opinions" or "can't handle pressure"? I feel like the "I'll consider moving back" final sentence keeps the vote-opportunity open.

I never looked at any of dwlee's previous games. I meant that if someone alerted me that he did stuff like this as scum I would consider moving back. Did you just see the word meta and assume I looked at his previous games?

You also don't understand my dave vote because I didn't tell you why I voted him. Like no shit man, no one knows why I voted him, don't act like it's some convoluted logic you can't wrap your head around, you just don't know.

[Nosferatu]

Out of all of dave's posts, only two contain actual statements that one could derive reads from. The rest are just a series of questions and a few fairly obvious statements.

Wow, that was quite a lot to catch up.

The impression I'm getting through the last several pages is that dwlee is scum caught for the wrong reason.
First there may have been some misinterpretation of his stance about vote hopping being scummy.
That got cleared up and he's taking heat for an opinion which goes against the grain a bit.
Having a position which is "wrong' compared to the norm isn't scummy per se, but the reaction certainly looks it.

VOTE: Dwlee99

This is him voting Dwlee. He comes in, a few pages have gone by, first thing he does is hop on the current maxwagon and give some vague reason for it.
"Scum caught for the wrong reason" - What does this even mean?
"The reaction looks like it" - uhh no, he just looks frustrated, not anti-town.

VOTE: davesaz
pedit: oh he's back

So what, you're picking someone who hasn't posted in a while to pressure?
I thought you liked your vote because you thought it was on scum.

Dwlee going apeshit over Keyser's "scumslip" is changing my view of him. That's too tenuous to be something that scum would be comfortable pushing, especially in the face of such an apathetic reaction to it. And even moreso with a couple of heavy posters actively calling it into question. I'm not really sure he's town, but it's enough to move him back to null.
UNVOTE:

I'm a little surprised pisskop still seems to be going after a lead that happened way back on the first couple of pages. That's vaguely scummy to me, but I've learned over the past couple of games that I almost always read him opposite of his actual alignment. Very weak town for now.

RC claimed scum but it was obviously sarcasm in response to what was going on in the thread at the time. I never have an easy time reading RC but I do know there is just enough crazy under the hood to do this while scum. The rest looks more town than what I'm used to seeing, but I'm going to call it null-scum for now and remain vigilant.

Keyser's posts are hurting my brain, but I see obviously town logic behind them. With the occasional misstatement like the "scumslip", but nobody's perfect.

Someone pointed out that the V/LA player wasn't posting and that it was scummy. Not paying attention but not reallly alignment indicative.

Wake seems slow off the mark but I think I've only been in one game with him.

Was it DN who was making such a big deal about not liking meta? I'm always suspicious of meta clears, especially mutual clears.

This is a lengthier one, but there's nothing he's actually saying, he's just edging out on everyone he talks about.

RC - "claimed scum but it was obv sarcasm; can never read him well, but he's weird, so he could do something like claim scum. His posting is town, but since I know he's crazy, I'll keep him at null-scum for no reason"

Keyser - "I don't know what to think about him, so I'll just assume his logic is town and ignore his possible scumslip"

There's no real opinion in this, other than that he doesn't buy mutual meta clears.

The fact that there's no train of thought in his posts, and no actions in his posts either, points to the fact that he isn't interested in clearing the game, something town would want to do; thereby making dave obviously not town-aligned.

[RadiantCowbells]

Out of all of dave's posts, only two contain actual statements that one could derive reads from. The rest are just a series of questions and a few fairly obvious statements.

Wow, that was quite a lot to catch up.

The impression I'm getting through the last several pages is that dwlee is scum caught for the wrong reason.
First there may have been some misinterpretation of his stance about vote hopping being scummy.
That got cleared up and he's taking heat for an opinion which goes against the grain a bit.
Having a position which is "wrong' compared to the norm isn't scummy per se, but the reaction certainly looks it.

VOTE: Dwlee99

This is him voting Dwlee. He comes in, a few pages have gone by, first thing he does is hop on the current maxwagon and give some vague reason for it.
"Scum caught for the wrong reason" - What does this even mean?
"The reaction looks like it" - uhh no, he just looks frustrated, not anti-town.

VOTE: davesaz
pedit: oh he's back

So what, you're picking someone who hasn't posted in a while to pressure?
I thought you liked your vote because you thought it was on scum.

Dwlee going apeshit over Keyser's "scumslip" is changing my view of him. That's too tenuous to be something that scum would be comfortable pushing, especially in the face of such an apathetic reaction to it. And even moreso with a couple of heavy posters actively calling it into question. I'm not really sure he's town, but it's enough to move him back to null.
UNVOTE:

I'm a little surprised pisskop still seems to be going after a lead that happened way back on the first couple of pages. That's vaguely scummy to me, but I've learned over the past couple of games that I almost always read him opposite of his actual alignment. Very weak town for now.

RC claimed scum but it was obviously sarcasm in response to what was going on in the thread at the time. I never have an easy time reading RC but I do know there is just enough crazy under the hood to do this while scum. The rest looks more town than what I'm used to seeing, but I'm going to call it null-scum for now and remain vigilant.

Keyser's posts are hurting my brain, but I see obviously town logic behind them. With the occasional misstatement like the "scumslip", but nobody's perfect.

Someone pointed out that the V/LA player wasn't posting and that it was scummy. Not paying attention but not reallly alignment indicative.

Wake seems slow off the mark but I think I've only been in one game with him.

Was it DN who was making such a big deal about not liking meta? I'm always suspicious of meta clears, especially mutual clears.

This is a lengthier one, but there's nothing he's actually saying, he's just edging out on everyone he talks about.

RC - "claimed scum but it was obv sarcasm; can never read him well, but he's weird, so he could do something like claim scum. His posting is town, but since I know he's crazy, I'll keep him at null-scum for no reason"

Keyser - "I don't know what to think about him, so I'll just assume his logic is town and ignore his possible scumslip"

There's no real opinion in this, other than that he doesn't buy mutual meta clears.

The fact that there's no train of thought in his posts, and no actions in his posts either, points to the fact that he isn't interested in clearing the game, something town would want to do; thereby making dave obviously not town-aligned.

Yeah, plus the specific stances he's taking are mostly common besides the contrarian scumread on me, which could easily be scum concerned about how heavily scumread I am. And the reasoning he gave for his scumread on me was bullshit and pointed more to a null/town read on me; I get the feeling that he threw in a contrarian stance there just to be contrarian as opposed to because his reads suggested it.

[RadiantCowbells]

RC

Sorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyy about the thing you want me policy lynched for

its ok, wuv u

[RadiantCowbells]

actually legit really sorry for overreacting.

[Aeronaut]

Spoiler: A bunch of pages, let's hurry this up

VOTE: dwlee

VOTE: Fro99er

I don't like that as soon as I say that I'm suspicious of you and another person, you immediately vote the other person.

Aeronaut for benevolent supreme leader

Pisskop....What's your take on me so far?

Why so worried about what pisskop thinks of you? You know your allignment. Why not ask about what pisskop thinks of others?

I'm not worried.

Why are you spinning it as worry?

I'm trying to engage pisskop because all he's done is fluff post.

You are seriously pissing me off. I have no idea why you came in here to throw shit at me

You are mad at a person for doing what they are supposed to be doing, scumhunting.

[Shouting]

You serious?

As scum, he's really calm and quiet and non confrontational; check Delicious Mafia 2 if you want a good example of that.

Metabuilding is a thing that people do sometimes. +1

Like, FA is probably one of the strongest D1 town reads I've ever had on D1 outside of masonry.

That can't be true +1

So what I like to do when I play this game is quote things I want to respond to as I read up. There was a bit I missed overnight so this was probably going to be a long post.

However, I reach the last page and suddenly lost my desire to care because Mafia is a bullshit game. What's the point of playing if people can just meta read so hard? Like either Aero/Fro99er are both scum or they are both town (most likely the later) but the fact that the can just "townread" each other like that defeats the purpose for me. I can't get back into the meta of this game because I don't know enough of peoples meta.

Fro99er has been acting more and more increasingly textbook scummy until about the breaking point when they town-read each other. A town player getting flustered because he knew another aggressive townie was going to push him, yeah I get that. It's a little bullshit though.


Spoilers below for my "quotes" but don't see a reason to respond to half of those now.
[Was a bitch to find and format]

unvote

I'll just come back later and try to figure out who to vote then.

VOTE: Death Note

This basically reads as "I'm scum and its not fair how people are townreading each other!!!"

Don't forget completely and utterly useless as far as posts go. I'd vote Deathnote right now but I don't know the VC.

In regards to the mutual townreading of Frog and Aero I feel that I don't know enough about each player to form a good opinion on the matter. I'll just take it as face value and see it as two town players who know each other very well town-reading each other.

^cows last posts was a bunch of nothing. What was your intentions when you posted that?

More hypocrisy hot damn +2

I don't know about you guys, but I read this post in the voice of the CinemaSins guy.

I can buy Dwlee being town.

Cause he doesn't make sense as scumbuddies w/ a few of my other scumreads

.

Yea, don't use pre-flip associatives. It's very rarely ever going to be accurate.

Fine Keyser.
UNVOTE: Keyser

I don't have any real reasons for my reads atm, tbh. It's a lot of gut. >.<

I have wicked, rc, pisskop, aero and fro99er as town.
Not really sure about scum.

Why is Wicked at all town to you?
Also, you seriously don't have ANY scum reads? If that's really true, why aren't you trying to push people instead of just saying "Oh, I don't have scum reads!"

Nosferatu is null because I don't have enough to lynch them atm.
Deathnote claimed PR - not pursuing that today.

Just so you know, he didn't

actually

claim anything. He made a fakeish casual "I'm not going to get lynched today", far earlier than a pro-town PR generally should.

Cow and Nero are good examples of this because they're both posting just enough content to seem sort of townie but not enough that I town read them yet.

Like... what content is Cow posting that seems at all townie to you? Also curious; what makes Nero look townie to you?

[Aeronaut]

Can we just agree to lynch Cow or FA or Jestr so I don't have to deal with them any longer?

Yea, sure. I'm actually fine with Jestr or Cow out of those three. Which one of those do you think is most likely scum / will get us the most information depending on flip?

[davesaz]

The fact that there's no train of thought in his posts, and no actions in his posts either, points to the fact that he isn't interested in clearing the game, something town would want to do; thereby making dave obviously not town-aligned.

Feel free to look over any of the NY's in my wiki list, or in fact most of the games. Asking questions is how I figure things out. You should also be able to easily find a pattern where I don't assume that conventional wisdom is true. Look at how hard I jump on people for "clears" -- easiest to find if you search for "lock clear" as there is one memorable game where that phrase features a lot. It especially worries me a lot when people give very easy townreads.

I don't have to ask about train of thought, but what do you mean by no actions? I'm not one who throws my vote around, if that's what you mean.

[Wickedestjr]

If DeathNote is town, this seems like a pretty strong town tell from JarJar;

Oh I had no idea Tree Stump was an actual role. Just Wiki'd it.

So how does that work? It says he can't vote so doesn't his name appearing in the VC pretty much kill that?

To answer your questions... A tree stump has the ability to vote until they use their ability - so if DN's a tree stump, that's why we still see his name in the VC.

If a tree stump is about to get lynched, then that is when they use their stump ability. If Player A stumps, then the Mod will confirm that Player A is a tree stump and Player A's vote is removed, but he or she can still continue speaking. That's the advantage of the tree stump ability: we learn Player A's alignment but don't have to waste a lynch in the process. Make sense now?

And if you're taking that as a serious claim, can you answer this now?

I'd love for you to speculate on what possible answer he could have for "why are you stating that you won't get lynched?"

I have one idea for what he could say. But I'm not going to openly speculate because I want him to come up with his own answer.

My one idea was that he would say something along the lines of: "This case against me sucks and I know I'm going to convince you guys eventually". That answer wouldn't really make any sense in combination with his other self-deprecating comments, but you asked me to speculate so I did. FWIW tree stump also came to mind even though he explicitly said he wasn't implying anything with his comment.

HOWEVER, as I have explained several times:

it doesn't matter if I can come up with something

. When I have issue with something that someone has done, I don't vote for them and push for their lynch. I ask them about it because there's always a chance that I'm just misinterpreting something or that there's a possible explanation that I am missing (this is not a rarity). Town get mis-lynched all the time because of misunderstandings and, as a scum hunter, I wanted to give DeathNote a chance to provide some clarity to the situation. This is how I play the game and it's how I believe the game should be played... especially in situations where a player is being asked to claim their role - that is a big deal, JarJar. Again, what's the problem here?

Did you think his "treestump" roleclaim fully explained his

"I am just stating that you won't lynch me"

warning?
To then declare to the thread outright: "DeathNote is town", is a huge leap to make.

Yes, I think a tree stump role claim would explain his "I am just stating that you won't lynch me" warning. I think his tree stump role claim (or at least the post that I interpreted as a tree stump role claim) looked genuine because a.) it explained his "You won't lynch me" comment and b.) it's a pretty awful claim for him to make as scum (and no, I don't think he'd be WIFOMing).

DN was null and then I saw two things in short succession that made me think he was town. What is wrong with a huge leap?

Maybe I'm conf-biasing, but his subsequent posts (688 and 689) give me very good vibes too: his reaction to RC, his "I have no f-ing regrets" comment, his most-recent stance on meta, and his intention to stop playing after this game all seem really genuine. I have a really hard time believing that DN faked all of that...

Ok, I see defeated town, but why not

defeated scum

?

I think a scum's natural instinct is to just address the criticism and try to look like a normal scumhunter. But I think only a more-skilled scum tries to feign the emotion that they would be feeling if they were town. If DN is scum, I think he did a great job of faking this reaction and I just don't know that he's skilled enough to pull it off (maybe he is, I'm just guessing based on the impression that he doesn't seem to play much anymore). In particular, the intention to stop playing after this game makes a lot more sense if he's town, for two reasons: a.) if he's scum, then he could just avoid using meta this game and not complain about feeling obligated to use it and b.) it's a rarity for him to draw scum, so if he was actually frustrated-scum, then I'd think he'd just tough it out and hope to draw town next game (which he probably would).

[davesaz]

Followup to Nosferatu: No train of thought? What do you call the series of posts with JarJarDrinks, or the one with Keyser?

[Wickedestjr]

Especially considering his question was

If you're not implying anything, then why are you stating that you won't get lynched?

cause if he believes that he was legit claiming treestump then obviously he WAS implying something.

Like, how can he really be satisfied w/ that answer?

It is mildly bothersome that he would say he wasn't implying something when he actually was. But I don't think it's suspicious. I could very easily see DN-towntree denying an implication in order to keep his role a secret.

Basically what I'm saying is that :

I'm not implying anything. I am just stating that you won't lynch me.

If you're not implying anything, then why are you stating that you won't get lynched?

Is basically Wicked asking for a roleclaim because there's no other good answer. And I wouldn't have a problem w/ asking for the claim obviously since I asked for it too. BUt his next post is:

I thought the traditional procedure was vote and then ask for a claim after enough people have voted... Why do two or three non-confirmed people have the authority to ask for someone's role claim in a sixteen player game?

Personally, I'm not ready for a claim

but I

am

interested in seeing his answer to my question.

JarJar, you're honestly starting to frustrate me right now. I have explained this several times and you keep ignoring my explanation. I know you think DN is scum, but you can't just assume that any resistance to his wagon or his claim is a partner. I think you're a townie suffering from conf-bias right now and you should be careful. FWIW, I'm not the kind of player to blatantly stick my neck out for a partner on day 1 and you have no reason to suspect me right now.

The first quote is

not

me asking for a role claim because I asked what he meant if he

wasn't

implying anything. I have gone over this multiple times. But yes, it does

look

like a blatant contradiction when you specifically paint it in that way, nice work.

[davesaz]

@Wicked, JarJar: I don't mind you trying to sort each other, but there was a question on the table regarding speculation on DN's role (if any). "It" in the quote is the speculation...

My point is that it seems to hurt town more to press this than it helps. What's the scenario that it helps?

[Wickedestjr]

I mean, I'm not. I just don't have a lot of solid case on him besides the fact that his posts feel fake as fuck. Which I guess is good enough for some people.

I have found that I am accused of sounding "fake as flip" a lot. This game is no exception - I am town speaking in the way that I normally speak. One past example: In the game that RC and I recently completed, he said at one point;

He's so fucking formal and rote and not fluid about it and it's fake as hell.

and the bolded portions of the post below should interest you;

Spoiler: Explanation

He's so fucking formal and rote and not fluid about it and it's fake as hell.

If you were to meta me, you'd see that this is how I always talk. This is probably the fourth or fifth time that I've been voted for my posting style (I have even encountered someone who was incorrectly

certain

that I was scum for my posting style). This is the way I speak and if you think I'm foolish enough to adopt a completely unique posting style as scum, then you are too ignorant.

Like, he makes a logical point. There's a logical sequence to follow.

But there's no feeling and no effort to directly tie it to the game.

Like, town in that situation would be all casting

Jestr's listing off things that I'm doing / have done that can be construed as scummy but he doesn't really tie it all together, doesn't put a bow up on it and finalize it.

He just lists scummy things about me and calls it a day because there isn't that extra step of him being town and thinking that I'm scum that brings it all together into his thought process.

Your post bothered me enough that I wasn't going to ignore it (I shouldn't ignore posts that bother me, should I?) but it also wasn't strong enough for me put you at L-1. I never even said that I'm scum reading you for it - I'm not leaning either way right now.

You are calling me scum for lack of feeling/effort/bow/finalization when I "saw something strange" on page 5. That's a lot of vague jargon that only reinforces your claim that you can't put this read into words.

And unfortunately, I'm a cautious/slow player, so you've already set your expectations too high if you want me finalizing anything at this stage of the game.

But thanks for trying...

You are also ignoring the context of my post: you had just replaced out. So my post wasn't written as a case against you for you to respond to (I thought you were out of the game at that point), it was written as points for everyone else to think about - I was curious if anyone else found it interesting.

When I first started playing on this site, I was less emotionally mature, I was easily angered by players that couldn’t see my perspective, and I occasionally demonstrated that anger in my posts. But this is a game and I came to realize that I don’t enjoy playing that way (and people don’t enjoy playing with me that way). So that is why I try to be calm and avoid showing too much feeling. I think I’ve done a pretty good job of it throughout the last three or four years and you’ll see the exact same posting style if you look at my recent games (as either alignment).

You say that you can’t see anything going on beneath the surface and no deeper thought, but 1. I don’t think I

ever

demonstrate what I’m thinking behind the scenes - if I’m not explicitly saying something, it’s

because

I don’t want to share it.

2. Be specific: what more should I have said in response to your replace out post to demonstrate deeper thought?

Final point. Originally, you said the problem was a rapid tone change, but your recent explanation has absolutely nothing to do with a “tone change”. So I’m not sure why you want to scum read me right now.

I'm not referencing this game to discredit RC (I don't have any issue with him not liking my tone/fake-sound in that game because he's not the first person to view me that way), I just think it's a very recent/relevant post for people that think I sound fake in this game. I don't have a better or more recent example to give you.

[Wickedestjr]

No opinions on any of the other stuff going on in the game at this point?

No, on page eight of a large game, I generally will not have many opinions to give.

[davesaz]

Keyser, I noticed a marked change in your posting style. Style 1 was very stilted where style 2 is more conversational. I don't think it is alignment indicative, but I'm curious why you changed.

Spoiler: style1

The fact that you're not even considering this as an option makes me think you know DNs alignment.

Miss-rep.
Show me where I know DeathNote's alignment.
I'm trying to talk this through with you rationally.
I already (repeatedly) shared my position on DeathNote. And I will re-read his posts this evening.

If I scum-read him

I will vote him.

You don't think there's any other reason to vote for someone?

There are many reasons why I think both town AND scum would want to vote DeathNote given his awful

"You guys aren't lynching me"

warning. But I'll only be voting him for one reason.

Spoiler: style2

Still not giving reasons because I like watching robot get annoyed

I would appreciate it if you please explain your reads. I would like to study the thought-process behind who you are calling town and scum.

This is a good start:

Dwlee I'm reading based off his emotions on how I pushed him earlier.
He's also starting to do some town things I cant expand upon further.

Can you describe how those "emotions" were town-indicative? I usually find emotional posts hard to label with an alignment. Please could you list and explain these "town things" Dwlee99 is doing when you have time.

I weirdly feel like pisskop is trying harder than normal (?). It's a really shitty meta read, but I've never been able to read PK.

My scum-lean read of pisskop is not based on meta, but I found your comments interesting. I am currently frustrated with pisskop's reluctance to respond to my queries and questions.

I can buy Dwlee being town.

Cause he doesn't make sense as scumbuddies w/ a few of my other scumreads

.

I am curious - do you have any other reasons to town-read Dwlee99, except for pre-flip association tells with your other scum-reads?

[RadiantCowbells]

Keyser, I noticed a marked change in your posting style. Style 1 was very stilted where style 2 is more conversational. I don't think it is alignment indicative, but I'm curious why you changed.

Spoiler: style1

The fact that you're not even considering this as an option makes me think you know DNs alignment.

Miss-rep.
Show me where I know DeathNote's alignment.
I'm trying to talk this through with you rationally.
I already (repeatedly) shared my position on DeathNote. And I will re-read his posts this evening.

If I scum-read him

I will vote him.

You don't think there's any other reason to vote for someone?

There are many reasons why I think both town AND scum would want to vote DeathNote given his awful

"You guys aren't lynching me"

warning. But I'll only be voting him for one reason.

Spoiler: style2

Still not giving reasons because I like watching robot get annoyed

I would appreciate it if you please explain your reads. I would like to study the thought-process behind who you are calling town and scum.

This is a good start:

Dwlee I'm reading based off his emotions on how I pushed him earlier.
He's also starting to do some town things I cant expand upon further.

Can you describe how those "emotions" were town-indicative? I usually find emotional posts hard to label with an alignment. Please could you list and explain these "town things" Dwlee99 is doing when you have time.

I weirdly feel like pisskop is trying harder than normal (?). It's a really shitty meta read, but I've never been able to read PK.

My scum-lean read of pisskop is not based on meta, but I found your comments interesting. I am currently frustrated with pisskop's reluctance to respond to my queries and questions.

I can buy Dwlee being town.

Cause he doesn't make sense as scumbuddies w/ a few of my other scumreads

.

I am curious - do you have any other reasons to town-read Dwlee99, except for pre-flip association tells with your other scum-reads?

How is this scumhunting?

You don't feel like explaining why you're scumreading me when everything you lsited that I'd done was either town or null?

[Wickedestjr]

I want to lynch Wicked because he's flat and evasive, cites a terrible meta incident where he actually fucking lynched me, and he keeps throwing shots from the side at the DN wagon.

In retrospect, it was kinda unfair/cheap of me to reference that game to discredit you. I was frustrated because it doesn't/didn't feel like you were making a fair effort to actually determine my alignment, so that reference was just my way of combating frustration without swearing or insulting you.

I still feel like you aren't giving me a fair chance in this game if you're town, don't appreciate you grouping me in the 'policy lynchables', and don't think I deserve to be called a labia.

But I do actually apologize for publicly mentioning that game to undermine you in this one.

[RadiantCowbells]

I want to lynch Wicked because he's flat and evasive, cites a terrible meta incident where he actually fucking lynched me, and he keeps throwing shots from the side at the DN wagon.

In retrospect, it was kinda unfair/cheap of me to reference that game to discredit you. I was frustrated because it doesn't/didn't feel like you were making a fair effort to actually determine my alignment, so that reference was just my way of combating frustration without swearing or insulting you.

I still feel like you aren't giving me a fair chance in this game if you're town, don't appreciate you grouping me in the 'policy lynchables', and don't think I deserve to be called a labia.

But I do actually apologize for publicly mentioning that game to undermine you in this one.

You lynched me in that game so whatever point you think you have it sucks.

[Wickedestjr]

@Wicked, JarJar: I don't mind you trying to sort each other, but there was a question on the table regarding speculation on DN's role (if any). "It" in the quote is the speculation...

My point is that it seems to hurt town more to press this than it helps. What's the scenario that it helps?

FWIW, I don't want to discuss this anymore and hope my posts on this page end the conversation about DN role claiming.