Mini 1749: Classic Rock Mafia: Game Over!

[AlwaysInnocent]

Really. If Dierfire is town, I am going to put one of his quotes saying "you have been furthering the win condition of the Mafia better than the Mafia themselves" in my signature. There is absolutely no chance that he is town.

[Dierfire]

@AlwaysInnocent

Does that mean that you understand his analysis and conclusions? Will you explain it to me?

[AlwaysInnocent]

Dierfire allows himself to have way too many options. The opportunism is so obvious.

[AlwaysInnocent]

@AlwaysInnocent

Does that mean that you understand his analysis and conclusions? Will you explain it to me?

Are you talking about yourself in third person?

[Dierfire]

No, I was talking about to you about Davesaz. This one shouldn't even be a problem on my end, because I referred to myself in the first person and you in the second person, so the third person would have to be Davesaz.

[Frozen Angel]

It's probably a good idea for Frozen to be making the choice anyway.

why is that

Am I wrong to scumreading AI more than you?

[Frozen Angel]

see my problem is this you all are trying to force the lynch on someone else. It doesn't make you guys look townier. I have only 1 solid twon read and that Aero.

I still have problem with town reading Garmr
I'm struggling to believe AI is town
I have Direfire and dave in my null category
and I'm scumreading Aj more becuase of his recent reactions

so AI why is direfire scum again - please please please don't go on POE . just make a solid case

Direfire why you think Aj is scum ?

Don't GO ON POE

Ty all

[Frozen Angel]

You know ? game is fun until this point. when your the decider.

I fucking screw this up everytime.

arrrrghh

[Aeronaut]

Yea but it's not like we're in LYLO; if you screw up now, you've got tomorrow.

AI is the right choice, though. So make that one, and we don't need tomorrow

[Aj The Epic]

In just over 150 posts, Dier has changed from AI being scum and me being town to me being scum and AI being town. Noticeably when AI lynch is nearly inevitable he's starting to call for it being town, but no sooner. Earlier he pretended to be all worked up here:

I'm just about out of patience with this. Why is your vote always on Town wagons and never on Mafia wagons? Do I need to rethink my read on you?

That leaves me with Aj and Davesaz, and I have reasons to read them both as Town.

And 2 posts later, no posts outside of his own to see, he votes for me. For a half-ass reason.

It isn't AI. It's Dier.

[davesaz]

Albert B. Rampage (3): Aeronaut, Garmr, Dierfire
Dierfire (2): AlwaysInnocent, Aj The Epic
Aeronaut (1): Albert B. Rampage
Aj The Epic (0):
Davesaz (0):
AlwaysInnocent (0):
Frozen Angel (0):
Garmr (0):



Not voting: Davesaz, Frozen Angel

When doing VCA the last VC is usually the least important one. This is the one which matters. If Dierfire is town, scum could have tied it at this point and fought harder for that wagon.

[AlwaysInnocent]

see my problem is this you all are trying to force the lynch on someone else. It doesn't make you guys look townier. I have only 1 solid twon read and that Aero.

I still have problem with town reading Garmr
I'm struggling to believe AI is town
I have Direfire and dave in my null category
and I'm scumreading Aj more becuase of his recent reactions

so AI why is direfire scum again - please please please don't go on POE . just make a solid case

Direfire why you think Aj is scum ?

Don't GO ON POE

Ty all

Garmr is town.
Dave is town.
Aj is town.
I am town.
Dierfire is scum.

[Garmr]

see my problem is this you all are trying to force the lynch on someone else. It doesn't make you guys look townier. I have only 1 solid twon read and that Aero.

I still have problem with town reading Garmr
I'm struggling to believe AI is town
I have Direfire and dave in my null category
and I'm scumreading Aj more becuase of his recent reactions

so AI why is direfire scum again - please please please don't go on POE . just make a solid case

Direfire why you think Aj is scum ?

Don't GO ON POE

Ty all

Garmr is town.
Dave is town.
Aj is town.
I am town.
Dierfire is scum.

why is aj town to you.

[Dierfire]

In just over 150 posts, Dier has changed from AI being scum and me being town to me being scum and AI being town. Noticeably when AI lynch is nearly inevitable he's starting to call for it being town, but no sooner. Earlier he pretended to be all worked up here:

I'm just about out of patience with this. Why is your vote always on Town wagons and never on Mafia wagons? Do I need to rethink my read on you?

That leaves me with Aj and Davesaz, and I have reasons to read them both as Town.

And 2 posts later, no posts outside of his own to see, he votes for me. For a half-ass reason.

It isn't AI. It's Dier.

This isn't true. When did I have AlwaysInnocent as Mafia?
I was clearly reading AlwaysInnocent as Town in 1434. That's the read that I was wondering whether I should reconsider. I thought about lynching him just because his vote pattern was bad (1547, 1584) but I decided against it and continue to read him as Town (1584, 1602, 1605).
I'm assuming that when you try to characterize me as reading you as Town you are referring to these:

I don't think that I want to vote Aj today based on some interactions between ABR and Radja but I will get to that when I read through again.

That leaves me with Aj and Davesaz, and I have reasons to read them both as Town.
For Davesaz, I would think that a Mafia team including an Ascetic would have the Ascetic claim, either as Ascetic or Miller, before anyone else.
For Aj, there's the matter of Radja's interactions with ABR D1.

Neither push on me is especially good.

I read through the interactions and I could see them happening if you were Town, but everyone has something in that column. So I looked at some other things, and particularly your case on me, and I decided that you were not really trying to read me and were trying to mischaracterize my posts in order to get me lynched (more on that in my response to Frozen momentarily).

[Dierfire]

@Aj

In just over 150 posts, Dier has changed from AI being scum and me being town to me being scum and AI being town. Noticeably when AI lynch is nearly inevitable he's starting to call for it being town, but no sooner. Earlier he pretended to be all worked up here:

I'm just about out of patience with this. Why is your vote always on Town wagons and never on Mafia wagons? Do I need to rethink my read on you?

That leaves me with Aj and Davesaz, and I have reasons to read them both as Town.

And 2 posts later, no posts outside of his own to see, he votes for me. For a half-ass reason.

It isn't AI. It's Dier.

This isn't true. When did I have AlwaysInnocent as Mafia?
I was clearly reading AlwaysInnocent as Town in 1434. That's the read that I was wondering whether I should reconsider. I thought about lynching him just because his vote pattern was bad (1547, 1584) but I decided against it and continue to read him as Town (1584, 1602, 1605).
I'm assuming that when you try to characterize me as reading you as Town you are referring to these:

I don't think that I want to vote Aj today based on some interactions between ABR and Radja but I will get to that when I read through again.

That leaves me with Aj and Davesaz, and I have reasons to read them both as Town.
For Davesaz, I would think that a Mafia team including an Ascetic would have the Ascetic claim, either as Ascetic or Miller, before anyone else.
For Aj, there's the matter of Radja's interactions with ABR D1.

Neither push on me is especially good.

I read through the interactions and I could see them happening if you were Town, but everyone has something in that column. So I looked at some other things, and particularly your case on me, and I decided that you were not really trying to read me and were trying to mischaracterize my posts in order to get me lynched (more on that in my response to Frozen momentarily).

[Dierfire]

@Frozen

Direfire why you think Aj is scum ?

I sort of feel like you aren't reading what I'm writing. Do you have any specific questions about any of these posts, or were you asking for a summary?

Spoiler: These Posts

---CUT NESTED SPOILER TAGS---

There is a higher likelihood of it being Dier. We're ignoring a lot of what happened D1, where he pulled a town read on Aero for nothing at all. In 91 he allows himself a lot of 'to-be' scum reads but oddly not even one of our scum was mentioned. In later days, he's had bullshit moments of sheeping (aka on gamr when gamr was having an issue getting my arguments in order)

I could sort of see you thinking that I was just following Garmr, although you don't seem to wonder why Garmr doesn't believe that. The answer is that I was pushing for your lynch in the Neighborhood. It sort of seems like you forgot that you can ask people to explain their actions. I'm not exactly sure that it makes you Mafia, but it's at least lazy.

@AlwaysInnocent
I'm just about out of patience with this. Why is your vote always on Town wagons and never on Mafia wagons? Do I need to rethink my read on you?

This feels like a scum claim. The thing with AI is his reads now have picked 1 for 4, and he's been on neither of the inevitable scum lynches. I would definitely expect him to have been on FB's wagon since he had his own vocal displeasure if he was scum just for conformity sake. FB and ABR both were inevitiable in their own ways so not only is Dier making something out of nothing,

What was the end of this sentence?
I do regret losing my patience with AlwaysInnocent but I think that it's a fair question for him--he should really be wondering why his vote is never in the right place if he's Town.

Oddly enough, Dier doubts the fact that ABR's aesthetic could be scum (asking Aero to explain) but votes ABR in the same breath anyways.

That doesn't sound true to me at all. I didn't ask Aero to explain; I offered my explanation of why I was suspected ABR.

UNVOTE: Aj the Epic
VOTE: ABR

Aero justifiably wants me to stop stalling with this. I don't really see why the game needs a Mafia Ascetic but neither do I see why it needs a Town Ascetic.
If ABR is really a Town Ascetic I would expect him to be more suspicious of the Miller claim.

The POE in 1378:

@Davesaz

Unless Aj and AlwaysInnocent are both Mafia, at least one of the players on Firebringer's wagon should have been Mafia. Which one looked most suspicious to you?

Isn't helpful in the least. It's almost asking for an excuse for another sheep vote. there's a much higher chance that Dier is scum over AI.

Again, there's this odd obsession with the idea that I'm just following other people's votes which is not really in evidence. It's possibly an exaggerated response to my initial D2 vote?

Appealing to a hood when you're suspect #1 is manipulative. There's no need to try and bar off the game from the conversation right now.

Could you explain whom I would be trying to manipulate and how? It doesn't make much sense to me. I agree that the private conversations aren't especially useful at this time, which is sort of the point of my offer to move the discussion into the main thread.

---CUT NESTED SPOILER TAGS---

So I guess that, on balance, being lazy isn't really alignment-indicative (I've been pretty lazy myself over the last few days). I'll vote for Aj because it looks like he went out of his way to scrape things that he could present as suspicious about me.

VOTE: Aj the Epic

@Frozen

Do you have a comment on my vote for Aj or my reads on any of the other players?

@Aj

I seem to remember you scraping cases D1 as well.

@AJ

Okay, so I agree with the votes on dier after reading this post.
>Suggest scum Taly.
>Scum reading AlwaysInnocent(I agree, but still)
>Suggesting Aero is town, BUT he only 'trusts his read' on FA and then gives reason that he doesn't trust it.
And while it looks like he trys to call Gamr town, there's a double standard on Matt for prodding Dwlee, not gamr. This suggests he's suspicious of a pairing of matt/Gamr. So we come away with 4 scum reads in varying certainty or actual accusation in one post. Only one easy town read. This guy should DEFINITELY be pressed.

This doesn't look like a correct summary of my 91 at all.

@Frozen

Your question is whether being lazy makes Aj Mafia. The answer is that it does not. I pointed out a few cases in which it looked like the lazy thought extended beyond laziness to active misinformation/misinterpretation/misrepresentation.
I read your last post but I'm not exactly certain how you're reading most players. It sounds like you're still reading Garmr as Mafia but have decided to let him pass in agreement with my theory that his role will help us sort him if he's Town. I think that you came away with a Null read on Aj and a Town read on AlwaysInnocent. It is clear that you're reading Aero as Town.

I gave reasons why he would be Mafia, too! Those are the ones that made me vote for him.

The summary is that Aj consistently mischaracterizes my posts in order to get me lynched.

[Frozen Angel]

you feel wrong.

I wanted all these separate "you are scum!" "your misrepresenting me!" "I'm not scum!" shots together too evaluate them.

I'll share my read list later tonight

[AlwaysInnocent]

www.hasdierfirebeenlynchedyet.com

[Garmr]

http://www.hasdierfirebeenlynchedyet.com

Tell me why aj is town what reasoning do you have?

[AlwaysInnocent]

http://www.hasdierfirebeenlynchedyet.com

Tell me why aj is town what reasoning do you have?

I think I have been clear enough about him?

[Garmr]

http://www.hasdierfirebeenlynchedyet.com

Tell me why aj is town what reasoning do you have?

I think I have been clear enough about him?

Ok I can see abr potentially busing his buddies but dwlees reaction to abr and aj early game makes it null for me since he commented on it but he didn't seem to want to get involved to much calling radja vote on abr garbage but not scum reading him for it or trying to explain a read.


fuck I just rembered something and now i'm beging to doubt myself

[Garmr]

Aero I want you to reassure me. What motive could scum have to shoot ironpv? Looking from abr point of view he had no reason to kill fire and if he was killed for firebringer then Frozen would make much more sense since she was more townie and in conflict with abr it would also of cleared abrs slate to allow him to vote elsewhere.

Do you remember what I said before about something I said may of changed the kill towards iron.

UNVOTE: AI

[Frozen Angel]

ok my read list :

from town to scum :

Aero : he is like definitely town at this point. unless he did a scum gambit to make dire beleive he was the target - or he just targeted Dier. his play seems more like town to me.

Garmr : he claimed bodyguard, that claim is individually townish. Still struggling when I reread FB claim there.

dave : hmm , I'm kind of null on this slot. ascetic claim won't make him obvious town. the miller claim is bothering me atm.

DireFire : If I'm looking for bussing attempt I can see him bussing both FB and ABR.

AI : seems genuinely believing Dire is scum. his interactions with FB was townish but I'm not sure that make him town. I was suspicious about his try to delay the lynches and his ATE today is not helping me believing he is town

Aj : his todays post specially looks like he is failing so much. like he can't defend himself. he really wants to jump on others and just make a lynch happen.

[AlwaysInnocent]

This is why Aj (previously Radja) is not scum:

VOTE: Radja

And why are you voting me for not engaging with the game and not Mathilda who I'm voting for not engaging with the game? Aren't you just hypocritically doing what I'm doing?

Radja, if you play chicken with me, you will blink first, I guarantee it.

Albert B, Radja is likely stubborn town. Uncooperative and uncompromising to the point of it hurting himself.

He might look to be stubborn town to the untrained eye, but he's not.

It's very easy to fake posts like radja. I'll do it right back at him to prove it.

Albert B. was genuinely annoyed with Radja and wanted him lynched. Remember that Radja was close to actually being lynched at that point. After a while the wagon dissipated and Albert B. moved on to Mathilda.

[RadiantCowbells]

vx